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  #1  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:04 AM
93chipper 93chipper is offline
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Default Svt-40 carbine?

Is there such a thing I went in to a gun store recently and they had one or claimed that it is a svt 40 carbine it appears shorter than a typical svt is there such a thing or is this a hacked soviet svt 40?
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:09 AM
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Fantasy piece
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:33 PM
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My friend is in europe researching and travelling, apparently there were a handful made. None made it here.
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Old 08-25-2019, 3:26 PM
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This one was made in 1942 but has a light blonde stock instead of the typical Russian red finish
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Old 08-25-2019, 5:40 PM
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I ran into one of these at an LGS in Stockton. They had it priced way, way high. I dismissed it as a fantasy piece although it looked good.
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Old 08-25-2019, 5:56 PM
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That’s where it was
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Old 08-25-2019, 7:19 PM
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Highly likely it is a bubba special and worth less than what it would be un-modded, not more
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Old 08-25-2019, 7:22 PM
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So basically it’s as genuine as a original m1 garand tanker
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Old 08-25-2019, 8:37 PM
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A Canadian company imported and chopped a number of SVT40s back when, fitting them with a shorter stock and a .303 Brit barrel.
Globco Mohawk 555
I had one but sold it a decade ago.
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Old 08-26-2019, 6:25 AM
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Lol... Buy the gun, not the story".
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  #11  
Old 08-26-2019, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93chipper View Post
This one was made in 1942 but has a light blonde stock instead of the typical Russian red finish
Anyone can remove the shellac from a SVT. The birch stock will look "blond" when you do.
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What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:38 AM
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Original SVT-40 carbines did exist, they were made by factory 74 (Izhevsk) and were meant to be used by Soviet Paratroopers. They were tested in January 1941 by the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB)

Here is a diagram from a book showing a paratrooper with a rifle, most of the time that rifle would be a PPSh.

The book is the: “Instructions for Parachute Jumping of the Airborne Troops of the Red Army of 1942." Military Publishing House of the NPO of the USSR 1942






Original photos showing a paratrooper from the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB) with one of these SVT40 carbines:









Factory 74 (Izehvsk) made an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 of these SVT40 carbines for trials. They were not adopted (don't know why), none are known to exist anywhere


99.99% of the SVT40 carbines that you'll see were "modified" post war, most of those would be SVT's imported from Finland and cut down into fantasy pieces in the US or Canada

I've heard/read of SVT's being cut down in Finland from damaged guns during the war, but as far as I'm aware there is no proof (hence the 0.01% chance it could be a wartime modification). Considering it would take a lot of work to modify the gas system, etc, to make it work correctly, and the Finns had a lot of captured SVT-40's that they could take parts off of, it's very unlikely
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Old 09-18-2019, 5:13 AM
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Awesome post Jimja. Thanks for sharing it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 5:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
Original SVT-40 carbines did exist, they were made by factory 74 (Izhevsk) and were meant to be used by Soviet Paratroopers. They were tested in January 1941 by the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB)

Here is a diagram from a book showing a paratrooper with a rifle, most of the time that rifle would be a PPSh.

The book is the: “Instructions for Parachute Jumping of the Airborne Troops of the Red Army of 1942." Military Publishing House of the NPO of the USSR 1942






Original photos showing a paratrooper from the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB) with one of these SVT40 carbines:









Factory 74 (Izehvsk) made an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 of these SVT40 carbines for trials. They were not adopted (don't know why), none are known to exist anywhere


99.99% of the SVT40 carbines that you'll see were "modified" post war, most of those would be SVT's imported from Finland and cut down into fantasy pieces in the US or Canada

I've heard/read of SVT's being cut down in Finland from damaged guns during the war, but as far as I'm aware there is no proof (hence the 0.01% chance it could be a wartime modification). Considering it would take a lot of work to modify the gas system, etc, to make it work correctly, and the Finns had a lot of captured SVT-40's that they could take parts off of, it's very unlikely
Good stuff! I learned something today.
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Old 09-18-2019, 6:28 AM
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Higher resolution photos showing the Soviet paratrooper with the SVT-40 carbine







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  #16  
Old 09-18-2019, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
I ran into one of these at an LGS in Stockton. They had it priced way, way high. I dismissed it as a fantasy piece although it looked good.
I tried telling Joe it's not legit but I think he must have paid too much for it and is forced to believe his crazy story!!! Oh well... I know he is honest and not trying to screw people, he just thinks everyone is wrong about his "carbine"
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  #17  
Old 09-18-2019, 6:49 PM
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This one looks to be a 1942 Tula it looks similar to the pics but who knows i heard they labeled it the skt- 40 or avt-40(full auto capability) but they were not used much due to gas system issues
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Old 09-20-2019, 3:10 PM
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Here are some pics
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2019, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Factory 74 (Izehvsk) made an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 of these SVT40 carbines for trials. They were not adopted (don't know why), none are known to exist anywhere
Jimja, thanks for validating my argument I had on surplusrifle forums years ago, that they did in fact produce some. It's rumored that two examples are in a Moscow war museum, but I haven't seen that verified yet.
Two rifles that have yet to be found, are a pair of scaled down .22RF Mosins the Czar had made for his son Alexei. One photo exist of him holding one of the rifles.
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Old 09-20-2019, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Jimja, thanks for validating my argument I had on surplusrifle forums years ago, that they did in fact produce some. It's rumored that two examples are in a Moscow war museum, but I haven't seen that verified yet.
Two rifles that have yet to be found, are a pair of scaled down .22RF Mosins the Czar had made for his son Alexei. One photo exist of him holding one of the rifles.
They are not on display in any of the museums in Moscow (I checked), they are also not on display in the St. Petersburg Artillery museum, however, there is an unbelievable amount of stuff they have in storage there. I think they might have an example or two, I'll have to ask Chumak (the author of the new, excellent SVT-40 book). I believe at least one of them is pictured in that book

There is one on display at the newer of the two arms museums in Tula. Last time I was there I was able to take some photos

As far as I know, Tula only made prototypes of the SVT-40 carbines, they were never tried in the field. Izhevsk did make an estimated 1000-2000 carbines for field trials, as I mentioned in the posts above.

Interestingly, there is one known, Tula made, experimental SVT-40 carbine sniper!

Here are a couple of the photos of the Tula carbine I took at the (newer of the two) Tula Arms museums:








If you look closely at that carbine, you can see by the handguard where it was cut (number of vent holes). It's very different from the "carbines" cut down post war. Vast majority of these were done by two companies in the 1960's, Global and Viking Arms


By the end of the year there will be a LOT of new awesome information published about Russian small arms production, in English, along with archival records. As soon as it's available to the public I'll post it here
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  #21  
Old 09-20-2019, 6:06 PM
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Here is an older article (~5 years old or so I believe) written by Chumak, the author of the new SVT-40 book, that mentions SVT-40 carbine prototypes. Unfortunately the article, and the book, is only in Russian





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  #22  
Old 09-20-2019, 6:45 PM
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Now that's a place I could get lost in, I'm am envious of you sir! Thanks for the pics, that's stuff I've never seen before.
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Old 09-20-2019, 7:19 PM
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Yes indeed, great stuff, thanks J. PAX
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Old 09-21-2019, 3:52 AM
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Gun gun was imported after 1968 it has import marks on it from what I was told was a guy ordered it from a catalog in the 1970s as for the legitimacy of it being a real one I highly doubt it it has mis matched trigger and bolt assembly and appeared that the stock was sanded down and re numbered because there is a faint number slightly below the new number oh well I collect Tula guns anyway and didn’t have a svt 40
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Old 09-21-2019, 3:34 PM
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The photo of the Paratrooper looking straight on and also of "HIS RIGHT" look like a standard SVT-40 (which was a carbine). But it's the same as both my SVT-40's I have here (which are standard carbines). I don't see a cut down carbine on the photos. There is a bayonet on "his" left side.

I would like to know more of these "cut down" SVT-40's. They are interesting. Where can I look them up?

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Old 09-21-2019, 4:35 PM
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I didn't word a couple of my posts correctly, let me clear things up a little bit.

None of these carbines I posted are cut down. They were not cut down, because they were never full length rifles, they were factory made as carbines from the beginning. I shouldn't have used that term

The carbines that are cut down are the ones made post war by the two companies I mentioned above in the 1960's. They were "cut down" from full length rifles. Some carbines could have possibly been "cut down" from full length rifles when they were damaged during the war, however, I have never seen a legit example. I have seen several Obrez SVT-40's in various museums and collections though

The rifle in the photos of a paratrooper is a Factory 74 (Izhevsk) made carbine, made for field trials (hence it's a trial gun, as opposed to an experimental one). There is original period documentation about this, the trial was not successful, and the carbine was never adopted or made in any large numbers. That's most likely because the paratroopers had the PPSh-41 which was deemed to be superior (The SVT carbine trial was in January 1941, full production of the PPSh-41 started in late 1941). According to various sources, no examples of this Izhevsk made carbine are known to exist anywhere, not in museums or armories in Russia, not in private collections, etc.

Tula never made SVT-40 carbines for trials, they only made several experimental guns. The picture I took in the Tula museum is one of them, the article I posted written by Chumak shows some others. There was one experimental SVT-40 carbine sniper made

In summary, there are no known Izhevsk trial SVT-40 carbines in existence anywhere. The Tula made carbines are only experimental, they were never mass produced, or made for trials, there are several examples in various museums. At the Tula factory museum and at the St. Petersburg artillery museum, in the collection, not on display. Any SVT-40 carbine in the US or anywhere (outside of the Russian museums) is 99.99% likely a post war fantasy piece

Btw, by early 1942 the Russians realized that the SVT-40 had accuracy problems (among other things), they stopped the SVT-40 sniper production early that year (around March if I remember correctly) and started mass production the PU snipers. An SVT-40 carbine would most likely perform even worse. The PU proved to be more accurate, easier to maintain and very importantly cheaper and quicker to produce. The scopes remained the same for the most part, but now I'm getting off topic

There has been a lot of research done on Russian guns lately, a lot of very interesting information is coming out. Everything I posted is correct as of now (as far as I know), but who knows, maybe in a year or two some other examples or information will come to light
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Old 09-21-2019, 4:53 PM
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Here is a good example of what happened to SVT-40's during WWII that were too damaged to be repaired. They were cut down into single shot obrez pistols

I took these photos at the Ukrainian State Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Kiev






One of my projects is to recreate this exact obrez from various damaged (beyond restoration) SVT-40 parts that I have accumulated over the years, cut receivers, cut barrels, scrubbed and chromed bolts, sporterized stock, etc. It will be a single shot pistol, I'll shoot it with a 7.62x54r to .32 acp insert
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Old 09-21-2019, 5:54 PM
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93Chipper, very cool gun, congrats on the score!
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Old 09-22-2019, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
They were cut down into single shot obrez pistols
With the muzzle blast and recoil from that, it's probably a good thing it's a single shot.
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Old 09-23-2019, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
Original SVT-40 carbines did exist, they were made by factory 74 (Izhevsk) and were meant to be used by Soviet Paratroopers. They were tested in January 1941 by the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB)



Here is a diagram from a book showing a paratrooper with a rifle, most of the time that rifle would be a PPSh.



The book is the: “Instructions for Parachute Jumping of the Airborne Troops of the Red Army of 1942." Military Publishing House of the NPO of the USSR 1942













Original photos showing a paratrooper from the 214 Airborne Brigade (VDB) with one of these SVT40 carbines:



















Factory 74 (Izehvsk) made an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 of these SVT40 carbines for trials. They were not adopted (don't know why), none are known to exist anywhere





99.99% of the SVT40 carbines that you'll see were "modified" post war, most of those would be SVT's imported from Finland and cut down into fantasy pieces in the US or Canada



I've heard/read of SVT's being cut down in Finland from damaged guns during the war, but as far as I'm aware there is no proof (hence the 0.01% chance it could be a wartime modification). Considering it would take a lot of work to modify the gas system, etc, to make it work correctly, and the Finns had a lot of captured SVT-40's that they could take parts off of, it's very unlikely
Nevermind saw clarification.

Bottomline is all SVT-40 Carbines for sale in U.S. are the equivalent of a Tanker Garand.

Last edited by capt14k; 09-23-2019 at 3:12 PM..
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