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  #1  
Old 04-24-2023, 2:05 PM
jewie27 jewie27 is offline
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Default CBP off-duty approved firearms.

For CBPO's other than the dept issued Gen 5 Glock 19 MOS,
is there a list of approved firearms for off-duty or can any make/model be carried?

Will the dept. badge/credentials cover carry of personal off-duty weapons or is a state specific CCW required? I know it is required for the dept. issued Glock.
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2023, 4:04 PM
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Your best bet is to check with your department.
For DHS. Contact NFTTU.
They have the lists you are curious about.

They are also the ones who will provide guidance on your question.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2023, 5:00 PM
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Yeah. Why not just check with your agency? They could probably provide a more definitive answer than a gun forum.
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Old 04-24-2023, 7:01 PM
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I wasn't a Federal LEO, but a local LEO. If I was to come across the OP, who had a badge and Federal LEO I.D. he/she would likely be good-to-go, unless a further phone call to some type of agency/department OK was needed (might depend upon the situation).

On some type of routine stop, I wouldn't be getting into the Federal departmental policy or regulations as to what may be carried. From my current friends/acquaintances who are Federal LEOs/CBP/HS, there was some talk of only being "covered" in some way with the department issued CBP G19Gen5 (and previously the HK P2000), but carrying off-duty isn't required at all and some were comfortable carrying whatever they wanted off-duty.
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2023, 7:35 PM
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Check with Customs and Border Protection, I bet they have policy that clearly answers those questions.
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2023, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhuh View Post
Yeah. Why not just check with your agency? They could probably provide a more definitive answer than a gun forum.
because I don't start academy until July. Coming in from a local agency.
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Old 04-24-2023, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by L-2 View Post
I wasn't a Federal LEO, but a local LEO. If I was to come across the OP, who had a badge and Federal LEO I.D. he/she would likely be good-to-go, unless a further phone call to some type of agency/department OK was needed (might depend upon the situation).

On some type of routine stop, I wouldn't be getting into the Federal departmental policy or regulations as to what may be carried. From my current friends/acquaintances who are Federal LEOs/CBP/HS, there was some talk of only being "covered" in some way with the department issued CBP G19Gen5 (and previously the HK P2000), but carrying off-duty isn't required at all and some were comfortable carrying whatever they wanted off-duty.
All I could find online is that the CBP Glock is authorized to be carried 24 hrs. a day as long as the officer is in possession of their Badge and Creds. I could not find the Authorized Equipment List for off-duty firearms. I'm from a local agency and starting CBP academy in July. Looking at what I may want to buy and sell out of my collection. My current agency only allows what is on their list so that's why I was curious.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2023, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TJW View Post
Check with Customs and Border Protection, I bet they have policy that clearly answers those questions.
You?d think? Maybe there is, but good luck finding it.
If you find it. Let me know
Enjoy FLETC. It?s a real shart-hole. Bring your car if you can.
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2023, 9:01 PM
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So technically you won't be any kind of LE till you complete the academy and are issued your badge and creds.

You will be required to attend FLETC and while you are there you won't be able to carry any firearm as you would not be considered an LEO till graduation.

You will most likely be issued your assigned duty firearm while in the academy. Your gun will be locked up unless you have firearms training other times you will wear a red-gun. FLETC is a gun free area. You see others walking with duty belts on but only red guns in the holsters.

During my time with DOJ, we were only allowed to carry the department-issued firearm ONLY. If CBP allows you anything else you would still need to get FAD approval.

Don't run before you know the walk.
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2023, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kwest10 View Post
You?d think? Maybe there is, but good luck finding it.
If you find it. Let me know
Enjoy FLETC. It?s a real shart-hole. Bring your car if you can.
The pollen is on a completely different level out there. I was a mess till I got a few packs of benadryl from FLETC express.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2023, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
The pollen is on a completely different level out there. I was a mess till I got a few packs of benadryl from FLETC express.
thanks for the heads up. i always take allergy meds.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2023, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue187 View Post
So technically you won't be any kind of LE till you complete the academy and are issued your badge and creds.

You will be required to attend FLETC and while you are there you won't be able to carry any firearm as you would not be considered an LEO till graduation.

You will most likely be issued your assigned duty firearm while in the academy. Your gun will be locked up unless you have firearms training other times you will wear a red-gun. FLETC is a gun free area. You see others walking with duty belts on but only red guns in the holsters.

During my time with DOJ, we were only allowed to carry the department-issued firearm ONLY. If CBP allows you anything else you would still need to get FAD approval.

Don't run before you know the walk.
I always do as much research ahead of time. No need for negativity. It's not my first academy.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2023, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
The pollen is on a completely different level out there. I was a mess till I got a few packs of benadryl from FLETC express.
I ended up in the health unit using a nebulizer and then on the weekend ended up at the hospital for breathing treatments.

The pollen they get is crazy.. everything was coated green. I'm from the West Coast We don't get that crazy levels. ever..
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2023, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewie27 View Post
I always do as much research ahead of time. No need for negativity. It's not my first academy.
This sounds like it's going to be your first job in the feds. So you need to put aside everything you learned prior to FLETC. Don't be that one student that spouts off that I did this in my prior agency. DHS/CBP is completely different.

It will be your first time at FLETC.

The questions you are asking just make you sound like a rookie. Your going into a career and asking about carrying a firearm other than your issue.

Get the badge and creds first which come at graduation.

You can take this as harshly or as easily as you wish. Just know the walk of shame is the same for everyone that doesn't make it thru FLETC.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2023, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue187 View Post
This sounds like it's going to be your first job in the feds. So you need to put aside everything you learned prior to FLETC. Don't be that one student that spouts off that I did this in my prior agency. DHS/CBP is completely different.

It will be your first time at FLETC.

The questions you are asking just make you sound like a rookie. Your going into a career and asking about carrying a firearm other than your issue.

Get the badge and creds first which come at graduation.

You can take this as harshly or as easily as you wish. Just know the walk of shame is the same for everyone that doesn't make it thru FLETC.
It?s very similar when we teach firearms to recruits who have had extensive training or to officers from other agencies. We?re not here to say everything we do/teach is the end all, be all, but if your method is better than ours, we?re all ears. If it isn?t, then can we get on with the regularly scheduled program, please?
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2023, 7:28 PM
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Confirmed, CBP does not have an approved list. They give you the G19, and thats it.
Under the LEOSA you are legal to carry anything within reason.

What port are you going to ?
The FIs there can give you more info.

Last edited by Garand1911; 04-29-2023 at 7:30 PM..
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2023, 9:50 PM
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If you get the chance, stop by Cloudcroft and get some brisket at Mad Jack's. Get there early.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2023, 9:54 PM
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If you get the chance, stop by Cloudcroft and get some brisket at Mad Jack's. Get there early.
Sorry, misread that. Like like you'll be going to Glynco. I hear the pond is packed with bluegill.
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  #19  
Old 05-08-2023, 5:46 PM
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You are allowed to carry under LEOSA, anything within reason I imagine. I wouldn't try to conceal carry an AR pistol or anything, but there's always one. Step one though, like others have stated is graduating the academy
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  #20  
Old 05-14-2023, 4:48 AM
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You can CCW any pistol you want outside of work (No other CCW permit needed as Federal Creds cover it). It does NOT have to be your CBP issued pistol.. nor does it have to be CA Compliant - I do believe though for "CA" you still need to keep it to a 10 round mag?? This one Im not 100% sure on

That said... if you are NOT CCW'ing your duty pistol ....and if you were to use it in an actual shooting... CBP will not cover you - you would need your own representation.

If you are pre-academy and are already at the POE - just ask one of the firearms guys... or look up on our intranet - the off duty carry policy. You have PLENTY of time pre-academy doing nothing at all at the POE

what port are you going to?
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  #21  
Old 05-14-2023, 3:27 PM
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I do believe though for "CA" you still need to keep it to a 10 round mag?? This one Im not 100% sure on
wrong.
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2023, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
wrong.
Are you also CBP? Are you saying that im wrong with our carry policy on the 10 rounds thats not our duty pistol?

Edit: Well... I guess our policy has nothing to do with a Non issued CBP firearm for off duty carry. You are on your own if you CCW anything other than the duty pistol. Which again brings me back to not knowing the rule for 10 rounds or more on another firearm
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Old 05-14-2023, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
Are you also CBP? Are you saying that im wrong with our carry policy on the 10 rounds thats not our duty pistol?

Edit: Well... I guess our policy has nothing to do with a Non issued CBP firearm for off duty carry. You are on your own if you CCW anything other than the duty pistol. Which again brings me back to not knowing the rule for 10 rounds or more on another firearm
no, not CBP. I am a fed LEO for a different agency. i thought you were talking about law and not a specific agency policy.
we can carry per HR 218, but you do so on our own with no expectation of coverage from the agency. we do not have a policy restricting the number of rounds in the firearm we choose to carry.
interesting policy. is that nation wide or just for officers in CA? can Texas posted officers carry standard because Texas has no magazine restrictions, how about New York, are they limited to 7 rounds now with that SAFE act?

while LEOSA does not cover magazine capacity the state of CA does exempt LEO's from the magazine restrictions.
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A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of that officer’s duties may possess, borrow, purchase, receive, and import into this state a large-capacity magazine. (Pen. Code, ? 32405.)
a CBP officer can buy standard capacity mags and have them shipped straight to their home, i am surprised your agency would restrict magazine capacity for CA officers.
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Last edited by mossy; 05-14-2023 at 5:42 PM..
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  #24  
Old 05-14-2023, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
no, not CBP. I am a fed LEO for a different agency. we can carry per HR 218, but you do so on your own with no expectation of coverage from the agency.
interesting policy. is that nation wide or just for officers in CA? can Texas posted officers carry standard because Texas has no magazine restrictions, how about New York, are they limited to 7 rounds?
Brother I honestly have no idea lol.

we also carry under LEOSA (off duty... on duty its issued pistol only) ... but I swear in Cali I really wanna say that we have to stick to 10 rounds - again unless we are using our duty pistol.

So for us....

carry duty pistol as a CCW = work will back you legally and carry 10+ rounds as comes standard with whatever issued pistol we are assigned....

carry any other pistol under LEOSA = you need your own representation (again ehhhh again not sure if we need to stick to 10 rounds.... but again just if we are CCW under LEOSA)

Edit: We are not considered sworn peace officers - CBP anyway

also not all places honor federal creds (CBP) to have standard capacity mags shipped to their homes
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Old 05-14-2023, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
Brother I honestly have no idea lol.

we also carry under LEOSA (off duty... on duty its issued pistol only) ... but I swear in Cali I really wanna say that we have to stick to 10 rounds - again unless we are using our duty pistol.

So for us....

carry duty pistol as a CCW = work will back you legally and carry 10+ rounds as comes standard with whatever issued pistol we are assigned....

carry any other pistol under LEOSA = you need your own representation (again ehhhh again not sure if we need to stick to 10 rounds.... but again just if we are CCW under LEOSA)

Edit: We are not considered sworn peace officers - CBP anyway

also not all places honor federal creds (CBP) to have standard capacity mags shipped to their homes
You're OK with Large-Capacity Magazines in California. California's statute provides an exemption for both peace officers and federal law enforcement officers. Please refer to Penal Code section 32405.
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Old 05-15-2023, 4:48 AM
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You're OK with Large-Capacity Magazines in California. California's statute provides an exemption for both peace officers and federal law enforcement officers. Please refer to Penal Code section 32405.
Thank you Sir!
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Old 05-15-2023, 6:21 AM
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OP, I would definitely looking into LEOSA coverage as well:

https://www.fedsprotection.com/leosa...ce-active-leos
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Old 05-27-2023, 1:50 PM
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OP, the authority to carry is from the law. It is not gun specific. Policy dictates though, how the weapon is viewed for duty or for a shoot. If you carry a personal weapon not approved by the agency, the likelihood you'll fall out of scope of duty in a shooting is much higher than if you have an issued, approved weapon. Check with CBP policy and once you get through the academy, ask colleagues. Having spoken to a lot of feds, there are significant differences between any of the 1811 positions.
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Old 05-27-2023, 1:53 PM
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To clarify, differences in policy. The 1811 position as far as authority, is always the same. But policy between say, FBI, IRS, CBP, Marshals, is all different.

Also, double tap on FLEOA insurance and any other insurance your organization may offer...and maybe a private CCW insurance too
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Old 05-27-2023, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynman83 View Post
To clarify, differences in policy. The 1811 position as far as authority, is always the same. But policy between say, FBI, IRS, CBP, Marshals, is all different.

Also, double tap on FLEOA insurance and any other insurance your organization may offer...and maybe a private CCW insurance too
The Federal "1811" Classification has nothing to do with one's law enforcement authority. The "1811" Classification is an instrument used by the Office of Personnel Management to determine the employment rights and benefits of those falling under the classification. It has the effect of ensuring that the federal LEOs falling under that classification receive equal benefits and treatment.

The law enforcement authority of federal LEOs is determined by the statutes that empower their agencies and employees. Those are not the same and LEOs of differing agencies may have differing law enforcement powers.
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  #31  
Old 05-28-2023, 12:39 PM
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Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't aware some agencies are limited by law in what they can carry.
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Old 05-28-2023, 4:56 PM
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Post 31,
I didn't read or interpret anything said in this thread where agencies are limited by law as to what can be carried (by employees of any particular agency).

My head is spinning when words like "classification" and "authority" are differentiated and defined. At this point, for me, the thread has drifted off from the OP's initial concern, whatever that was, and didn't appear to be California-specific.

There are various what-ifs built into this thread, but not specifically asked.
-The OP resigns from his current LE department and won't be legal to carry in California without any other form of CCW.
-The OP later graduates from FLETC, but where will he be assigned? Calif.?
-The OP is then sworn, but does he have to carry off-duty? (I don't think so.)
-The OP is off-duty, but if he does decide to carry, does it have to be the issued G19Gen5? (I don't think so.)
-The OP is off-duty, carrying a personally-owned gun and gets into a shooting. To what extent does his union/employer provide any legal support? (This, I don't quite understand how the actual firearm used makes a difference and what any differences might be.)
-Will it somehow matter if the OP is a probationary employee until a certain time/date has elapsed and will that matter if getting into a shooting using a personally owned gun? (I don't know, but there could be personal time off needed for any legalities relating to a shooting, off-duty, using a gun other than what was issued.)
-Why does a personally-owned gun somehow make a difference vs. a Federal agency-owned gun? (I don't know.)

I'm just thinking out loud here and I don't even want anybody to answer these questions which may relate only to the OP and not anybody else.
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Old 05-29-2023, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
no, not CBP. I am a fed LEO for a different agency. i thought you were talking about law and not a specific agency policy.
we can carry per HR 218, but you do so on our own with no expectation of coverage from the agency. we do not have a policy restricting the number of rounds in the firearm we choose to carry.
interesting policy. is that nation wide or just for officers in CA? can Texas posted officers carry standard because Texas has no magazine restrictions, how about New York, are they limited to 7 rounds now with that SAFE act?

while LEOSA does not cover magazine capacity the state of CA does exempt LEO's from the magazine restrictions.


a CBP officer can buy standard capacity mags and have them shipped straight to their home, i am surprised your agency would restrict magazine capacity for CA officers.

I’m guessing you are with a federal agency with very limited law enforcement authority, such as Bureau of Prisons (BOP), if your ability to carry off duty is ONLY due HR218 and you’re on your own if you do get involved in a shooting. BOP is pretty much the only agency I can think of that attends FLETC and did not have the agency approved authority for 24/7 carry *prior* to the passage of HR218**. CBP (and legacy INS and USCS inspectors) had 24/7 carry authority prior to the passage of HR218. **There are some folks who are "force protection" for some agencies and have the title "police officer" AND who attend UPTP, but those numbers pale in comparison to the BoP folks that fall under the category of having a FLEO status and attended FLETC, but only can carry due to LEOSA.

With all the litigation happy attorneys out there, it definitely can give someone a pause knowing that if they carry and an incident occurs they are on their own.

There is something to be said for agencies that allow agents/officers to carry off duty on their creds (with a possibility that that agency will back you) and NOT due strictly to HR218, where the agency has no choice, but at the same time tells you upfront you’re on your own.

Last edited by southerncal714; 06-03-2023 at 6:53 PM..
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Old 05-29-2023, 9:49 PM
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The concept of a "Federal Agent" I think is separate from policy. Federal Law Enforcement should be able to carry a weapon, regardless of weapon, due to the fact that they are a federal agent...now whether they can carry on or off duty depends upon agency policy for duty. For instance i know CBP can carry on airplanes. Im not CBP so i can't say if it's only in the line of duty, but some federal agencies allow carry on airplanes regardless of duty. That seems more dictated by policy.

Now the policy concept is the crux in my mind of the issue. For some (my agency) we can carry anything. But policy is very strict. We can only carry approved weapons (certain guns (there is a short list) we qualify on), or else if we get into a shooting we are considered out of policy. The shoot may be a good shoot and may be adjudicated as such but the department will not accept any responsibility. I thought that was the OP question.

HR218 i thought was only for retired LE. Pardon my ignorance if this was not the case. My agency doesn't have "off duty" status so it's a non-issue.
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Old 05-29-2023, 9:50 PM
raynman83 raynman83 is offline
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Also, on duty (at the office or in a work capacity of any sort) we are required to carry a department approved weapon.
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Old 05-30-2023, 6:42 AM
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In terms of the word "federal agent" that is strictly verbiage which is what people associate with 1811 series Special Agents, who have all had (regardless of agency) 24/7 carry PRIOR to the passage of HR218/LEOSA. The only folks in the fed gov with the actual title of "federal agent" are the guys within the Department of Energy who transport nukes (they are not 1811's), and for everyone else it is just an unofficial title of sorts just like "Special Agent". As a side note, for special agents although your creds say Special Agent, your SF50 actually lists your job title as Criminal Investigator.

There are folks who have "Federal LEO" status, but prior to HR218, did not have agency authority to carry off-duty. The folks who come to mind that fall under this are Bureau of Prisons, Veterans Affairs, "DoD" Police and Postal Police (not to be confused with Postal Inspectors). These same folks can't carry on a plane off-duty as their authority to carry when not working is ONLY due to HR218, versus Special Agents (HSI, FBI, USSS, ATF, OIG etc., CBP Officers, USSS UD, US Capitol Police, etc. who had 24/7 carry authority granted by their agency PRIOR to the passage of HR218/LEOSA.

Also some folks might not be aware there is a significant difference in the level of even basic training some folks receive at FLETC (Federal Law Enforcement Training Center). For example, Bureau of Prisons folks basic training is only THREE WEEKS, where 1811's are at Glynco, GA for months for CITP and the agency add-on (I think IRS-CI agents have one of the longest add-on's). The the Uniformed Police Training Program (UPTP) for folks like USSS UD and Capitol Police is lengthy as well. And then they have an agency specific add-on after it.


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Originally Posted by raynman83 View Post
The concept of a "Federal Agent" I think is separate from policy. Federal Law Enforcement should be able to carry a weapon, regardless of weapon, due to the fact that they are a federal agent...now whether they can carry on or off duty depends upon agency policy for duty. For instance i know CBP can carry on airplanes. Im not CBP so i can't say if it's only in the line of duty, but some federal agencies allow carry on airplanes regardless of duty. That seems more dictated by policy.

Now the policy concept is the crux in my mind of the issue. For some (my agency) we can carry anything. But policy is very strict. We can only carry approved weapons (certain guns (there is a short list) we qualify on), or else if we get into a shooting we are considered out of policy. The shoot may be a good shoot and may be adjudicated as such but the department will not accept any responsibility. I thought that was the OP question.

HR218 i thought was only for retired LE. Pardon my ignorance if this was not the case. My agency doesn't have "off duty" status so it's a non-issue.

Last edited by southerncal714; 06-03-2023 at 6:54 PM..
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Old 05-30-2023, 9:42 AM
raynman83 raynman83 is offline
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Yea i figured it was different for Federal LEOs who were not 1811s. But OP was for CBP. Aren't CBP agents 1811s?

Also, i had no idea HR218 wasnt just for retirees. Thanks for the discussion. I learn new things every day.
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Old 05-30-2023, 12:46 PM
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CBP Officers are not 1811's. The only 1811's within CBP are Special Agents with their OPR (Internal Affairs). CBP Officers fall under series 1895 and although they are not 1811's they have been authorized by their agency to carry 24/7 before HR218/LEOSA was signed into law. FLEO's whose authority to carry off duty is based strictly on HR218 also can not flyed armed off duty. Generally this is the case for FLEO's who have limited law enforcement authority (even on duty) such as Bureau of Prisons employees. Literally everyone who works for the BoP is technically considered a FLEO with LE retirement, even if their job title isn't correctional officer. On the flip side, Veterans Affairs Police and many of the "force protection" folks from various agencies with "police officer" titles do not receive the "6c/12d" LE retirement and only gained the ability to carry off-duty AFTER the passage of HR218/LEOSA. And if you are involved in an off-duty incident with one of those agencies, you're on your own.

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Originally Posted by raynman83 View Post
Yea i figured it was different for Federal LEOs who were not 1811s. But OP was for CBP. Aren't CBP agents 1811s?

Also, i had no idea HR218 wasnt just for retirees. Thanks for the discussion. I learn new things every day.

Last edited by southerncal714; 05-30-2023 at 1:27 PM..
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