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  #41  
Old 11-25-2022, 2:32 PM
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1796730

For under 500 you can't beat this setup......then you can buy a better set of boots or binoculars.......if you can't find them or get them out doesn't matter what gun you have

I'm not a Leopold fan at all it's the only scope that gets returned that I've seen and some issues never solved. I wanted to love them for their Varmint line but too many issues on the web
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  #42  
Old 11-25-2022, 6:07 PM
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Back in the '80s that's all we used. Then I started hunting in the west and the 270 at 300 yd has very little drop in the 130 grain running hot. So I adapted and that's my dear pig gun. I've taken it elk hunting as my backup but I love the 06 with 180gr lead for elk out to 500-600yds
30-06 offers the best range of bullets from 110 to 220. Plus military ammo is available to practice with. I have seen to many new hunters shooting 243, 308, 270 and 25-06 that lose animals. Or wound animals that we have to track because they are making bad shots or shooting to far or having to weak of a round to put an animal down. This happens a lot more with copper round that are not as forgiving as a good ballistic tip. For experience hunter 270 like you works great. For new guys or most hunters who haven’t killed many animals like many guys here bigger is better to make up for their mistakes.

Many people here think being experienced is going hunt when really it is body count that really matters.
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  #43  
Old 11-25-2022, 6:33 PM
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30-06 offers the best range of bullets from 110 to 220. Plus military ammo is available to practice with. I have seen to many new hunters shooting 243, 308, 270 and 25-06 that lose animals. Or wound animals that we have to track because they are making bad shots or shooting to far or having to weak of a round to put an animal down. This happens a lot more with copper round that are not as forgiving as a good ballistic tip. For experience hunter 270 like you works great. For new guys or most hunters who haven’t killed many animals like many guys here bigger is better to make up for their mistakes.

Many people here think being experienced is going hunt when really it is body count that really matters.
I'd actually argue that some of the newer more efficient rounds are the way to go for someone newer buying factory ammo. 6.8 western, 6.5 prc, 6.5 Creed, 7mm prc and so on. Fast, flat, stabilize copper well, high BC and minimize wind drift.

I think they are a little more forgiving and accurate compared to "older" options. Not that there is anything wrong with them, at all.
YMMV
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  #44  
Old 11-25-2022, 7:32 PM
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I'd actually argue that some of the newer more efficient rounds are the way to go for someone newer buying factory ammo. 6.8 western, 6.5 prc, 6.5 Creed, 7mm prc and so on. Fast, flat, stabilize copper well, high BC and minimize wind drift.

I think they are a little more forgiving and accurate compared to "older" options. Not that there is anything wrong with them, at all.
YMMV
They are not more efficient just new. Look how many new rounds are out there. 10, 20,30???
Everyone wants there name on new round. None of them do anything better than spending your money. None of these rounds have the range of Bullet weights as 30-06 does.
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  #45  
Old 11-25-2022, 9:20 PM
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They are not more efficient just new. Look how many new rounds are out there. 10, 20,30???
Everyone wants there name on new round. None of them do anything better than spending your money. None of these rounds have the range of Bullet weights as 30-06 does.
So because there is a lot of new rounds hitting the market they are somehow bad? That speaks nothing of the round itself.

"Everyone wanting a name on a round" speaks to human nature. Again, nothing about the round itself.

Saying none of them do anything better except spend your money is not true. Look into BC, Trajectory, Momentum, wind drift, and you'll see different characteristics that can absolutely be helpful.

Having the widest range of bullet weight selection is nice but there are a lot of other factors to consider.

Lets not turn this into a pissing match though. I see you really like the 30/06 and its a heck of a gun that has stood the test of time and many have and will keep using successfully. However, that does not mean we should ignore/misrepresent the things other rounds bring to the table that absolutely could be helpful.

I dont want to pollute this thread any further as OP seems pretty set on the 308 and it will serve him well. If you want to discuss further feel free to shoot me a PM.
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  #46  
Old 11-26-2022, 7:49 AM
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Who knows, maybe I’ll turn into a bolt gun guy. Right now the only one we have in the family is my son’s CZ 455 American. He loves plinking with that thing and is actually pretty good with it. We’re going with 308 for reasons stated earlier, a big one being the Scar 17 in the safe.

Back to the matching scope quest. I’m currently down to a choice between these three, none of which I can find on sale, so no rush:

Leupold VX-3HD 4.5-14x40 CDS-ZL Boone & Crockett Scope

Leupold VX-3HD 4.5-14x40 CDS-ZL Duplex

Leupold VX3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL Duplex

I’m kind of digging the B&C reticle:

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  #47  
Old 11-26-2022, 8:27 AM
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Having read this article, which corroborates much of the good advice above, I’m starting to realize this scope thing is going to be a learning process.

https://www.boone-crockett.org/dial-or-hold

Even this seems complicated, although it should be easy…

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  #48  
Old 11-26-2022, 8:45 AM
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I know the thought of long big game hunting shots and hold over calculations, windage adjustment with your knobs all sounds like fun, and it is at the range. For most hunting scenarios, your hunting skills to track, not be scented, hide your movement and make a good field shot offhand or kneeling or seated with your sling as an aid are more important than the scope you choose. Here is a link to realistic scope advice https://www.chuckhawks.com/index2i.scopes_optics.htm
Sight your rifle 2 inches high at 100 yards and be good to 275 and put the duplex crosshairs on the backbone at 300. That is old school and has worked for countless accomplished hunters for years. The Duplex subtensions can be used for ranging and holdover if you ever get that accomplished or hunt in the rare long shooting scenario. I taught Hunter Safety for 20 years and am still an accredited instructor, I am glad to see you hunt with your boy, I did as well, PM me if you want straight shooting advice from a Hunter of over 30 years on most all NA game.

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  #49  
Old 11-26-2022, 8:52 AM
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I use the Boone and Crockett reticle when I can find them.

No dials to twist. A little practice and you can range and gauge the Kentucky wind age pretty accurately out to 500 yards.

But they seem to have fallen out of favor with the CDS system on Leupolds.


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  #50  
Old 11-26-2022, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plinker202020 View Post
Having read this article, which corroborates much of the good advice above, I’m starting to realize this scope thing is going to be a learning process.

https://www.boone-crockett.org/dial-or-hold

Even this seems complicated, although it should be easy…


"There are no solutions, only tradeoffs" TS

I researched that heavily, in poor weather is where that struggles. This last elk hunt I couldn't get a range past 20 yards because of the heavy snow so I guessed/dialed for 400 and he was 431. You can see how that would have been problematic with this option. There are obviously scenarios where that setup has advantages.

Since most of the hardcore guys dial, that's what I went with but choose something you are comfortable with and works for you. Things sure speed up when it's crunch time on an animal.
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  #51  
Old 11-26-2022, 9:49 AM
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Don't dial distances just zero at 300yds hold low on close shots and aim high for longer shots. It takes some practice but once you have it down it becomes a no thinking process
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  #52  
Old 11-26-2022, 10:44 AM
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Don't dial distances just zero at 300yds hold low on close shots and aim high for longer shots. It takes some practice but once you have it down it becomes a no thinking process
It really is that simple.

You do not need complex reticles, or an app on your phone. 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards is a rough guide - either shooting at 300 yards or using a chrono and knowing the ballistic numbers for your chosen bullet will get you there.

In my case, shooting a 150gr Sierra GameKing at 2,850fps 3" high at 100 yards covers me from 0 to 300 yards with no calculations or holdover necessary. Truly just point and shoot....if the cross-hairs or on the middle of the chest, the animal dies.

Don't over think or over complicate the scope thing, it just confuses and gets in the way - especially for a new or relatively inexperienced hunter.
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  #53  
Old 11-27-2022, 6:32 AM
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Life was a lot simpler when a hunting rifle was an open sight 30-30 or a 30-06 with a 3x9 scope. Too many TV shows theses days pimpimg their "latest and greatest" products.
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  #54  
Old 11-27-2022, 7:20 AM
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OP you've. gotten a lot of opinions. Here is mine:

1) .308 is fine for a hunting rifle for a kid but on the larger side in terms of cartridge. Being new to hunting you might think "bigger is better" but it's more like you use the right cartridge for the job. Sorta like driving a 1Ton, dually full-size pickup. Can you get groceries in it? Sure but it makes more sense to use something else. You'll be able to use a .243, 7mm-08 or 6.5CM for life for deer, wild pigs, etc. But getting a .308 is fine, too. The caliber isn't that important.

2) The Tikka is a great choice.

3) Like most people: I'd skip the Rudolph scope. But I have no knowledge of them. Maybe it is great!? Leupold VX3 3-9 would be my default choice. Don't get the VX-2. I regret it. Generally I would suggest keeping the cost of the rifle and the glass in the same ballpark. No cheap glass on a quality rifle (which the Tikka is) and no Swaro glass on a Big-5 weekly special.

4). This might be unpopular: A new rifle isn't necessary for you. Get one if you want but I wouldn't suggest buying one solely for hunting with your son. Either carry the SCAR or nothing. When you start hunting you think the caliber, rifle, bullet choice, etc is such a big deal. In reality it's about 2% of the whole hunting experience. Planning the hunt, getting tags, hiking, finding animals, recognizing sign, waiting in stands for hours, gutting, processing, are all just parts of the hunt. It's a big experience and the firearm is a small part of it.
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  #55  
Old 11-27-2022, 8:42 AM
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He might be stuck with the Rudolph scope. I just realized it was so cheap because of clearance pricing so I might not be able to decline it when it arrives at the store. It seems to be quality and has good reviews in South Africa…lol.

The only thing is the magnification, but he’s still going to love it.



^ This will hopefully teach his old man to do research before he buys gear.

As for me, I am still mooning over that Sako 85 Carbonlight. I guess I should just take some time to cool off. I was looking at the Sako 85 Finnlight as well. It’s half the price of the Carbonlight.

I have a few items up for sale in the marketplace, I guess we’ll see how that goes. The CZ 97B is meant to pay for his rifle and scope, and the Galils are meant to pay for my kit. In the meantime he’s getting his stuff for Christmas anyway. We have a trip planned to the desert at Christmas already so we’ll take the Tikka and Scar out for some fun.
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  #56  
Old 11-27-2022, 8:45 AM
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I’ll try to keep it short and agree with most on here.
Tikka is one the best bangs for the buck. Easy!
308 covers all your needs as well.
Rudolph Scope? No! Around $300, This weekend I’d be getting a new scope.
Me personally, meopta 5 or tract (their BDC is very simple). I have few vx3s with CDS and they been good to me. 2-10, 3-12 is all you need normal hunting situations. Wide field of view is more important than max zoom if you ever hunt thick area. Nothing over 4-16 is necessary (IMO)
Scope Rings, Talley’s or DNZ one piece is easy and durable.
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  #57  
Old 11-27-2022, 9:01 AM
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I was going to get the Leupold VX3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL Duplex ($499) when I go to DROS the rifle, but it’s $200 more than the Rudolph which was on clearance for $299 (vs original price of $599).

I’ll check out that Rudolph and see how it compares to the Leupold in person.

This article kind of settled the 308/20” barrel issue for me:

https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ty-28-to-16-5/
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  #58  
Old 11-27-2022, 9:18 AM
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I shot my uncles 308 at a range in Arizona at 13. Hated it. Flinchy…to this day I don’t like 308. Still shoot 243. I don’t know if your son is huge or not…but I appreciate what you’re trying to do with a father son combo. I’d buy the rifles in 308/243…kind of a parent cartridge thing. And I’d probably just have them built off Remington model seven actions. Budget maybe 5k. And throw it all on the visa �� or …?
I don’t know your budget/sons shooting history or anything else to offer any advice…but I will say I’m average of build, and that 308 was a lot for me as a kid. And the tikka in 308 is gonna be a light setup. And kick hard.

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  #59  
Old 11-27-2022, 9:35 AM
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I shot my uncles 308 at a range in Arizona at 13. Hated it. Flinchy…to this day I don’t like 308. Still shoot 243. I don’t know if your son is huge or not…but I appreciate what you’re trying to do with a father son combo. I’d buy the rifles in 308/243…kind of a parent cartridge thing. And I’d probably just have them built off Remington model seven actions. Budget maybe 5k. And throw it all on the visa �� or …?
I don’t know your budget/sons shooting history or anything else to offer any advice…but I will say I’m average of build, and that 308 was a lot for me as a kid. And the tikka in 308 is gonna be a light setup. And kick hard.
I suppose it’s a gamble, but he’s shot my AKs without any issues. Not sure how a 308 out of a 20” barrel compares to 7.62x39 out of a 16” barrel.
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  #60  
Old 11-27-2022, 9:50 AM
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I suppose it’s a gamble, but he’s shot my AKs without any issues. Not sure how a 308 out of a 20” barrel compares to 7.62x39 out of a 16” barrel.
Rent one (or a few) at a local range and have him shoot it. A light weight 308 can have some snap, certainly more than the AK.

They also make reduced recoil ammo that may be good to start him out with.
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  #61  
Old 11-27-2022, 10:43 AM
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I suppose it’s a gamble, but he’s shot my AKs without any issues. Not sure how a 308 out of a 20” barrel compares to 7.62x39 out of a 16” barrel.
They are not even close at all. I'd expect about double the recoil between the two.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Compare the "softer shooting" .308 to the 30-06 and then look at the 7.62x39.

Then look up the .243 people are recommending. If it's too late then don't worry about it. . You can add weight to the rifle or use reduced recoil loads (dunno if you can find those factory, though).
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Old 11-27-2022, 10:50 AM
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I have a Tikka T3 Lite in 30-06. I put a "Limbsaver" recoil pad on it, and the felt recoil was significantly reduced. It is a very comfortable gun to shoot.

My advice - whatever caliber you end up with, slap a Limbsaver on it. You'll be very glad you did.
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Old 11-27-2022, 4:38 PM
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I'm not familiar with Rudolf optics.

Not to piss in your cheerios, but here's my reasoning.
  • I prefer something lower than a 4x low end
  • I prefer a max of 10x because optics get heavier with mor magnification
  • I see no need for a parralax adjustment in a hunting scope, it's just one more thing to fiddle with or bump out of whack
  • I didn't see a mention of the scope being first focal plane, if it's not first focal plane and you plan on using the hash marks as a BDC, you'll have to claculate the drop for every zoom level since it won't be the same at different magnifications

In particular to that last point, I would hate for you to go to the trouble of putting the rifle together, getting it sighted in at 100 yards at 16x assuming you'll use the hash marks for a BDC. Calculating the hash marks to be 180 yards, 230 yards, 270 yards; and handing that rifle off to your kid only to have them take a 200 yard shot at 7x instead of 16x and missing because they tried to use the first hash mark. I mean first off I wouldn't advocate for sighting in at 100 yards anyway, and secondly it's always a bummer to miss.


Not to mention having basically no shot at a buck jumped from underfoot.
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Old 11-27-2022, 4:47 PM
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A .243 from CZ would be fun to shoot and probably last several generations. Have 2 of their rifles and love them
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  #65  
Old 11-27-2022, 6:08 PM
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I'm starting to get over the Carbonlight itch...sort of.

I'm leaning towards one of these two for myself:

Sako Finnlight (308/20") @ $1,700

Christensen Arms Mesa FFT (308/20") @ $1,250

I figure either one will go to the kid once he outgrows the Tikka Compact and I can then upgrade if I feel it's necessary. That would free up some $$$ for the other gear we'll need.

Any personal/close friends feedback on either rifle?
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  #66  
Old 11-27-2022, 6:52 PM
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Hold em both and see what feels better. I know a few people with the Christensen's that like em.

If you miss an animal it wont be because of either of those rifles. I also think its a great idea that you're putting more $$$ into other gear instead of the guns.
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Old 11-28-2022, 6:19 PM
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Before you drop $2k on a gun go see what a full setup of Kuiu gear will run you. Throw in a Mystery Ranch pack, bino harness, some good boots, maybe a Swarovski spotting scope while you're at it! Hunting is as cheap or expensive as you make it. Someone telling you to not spend money on something is only less rare than California buck on public land!
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Old 11-28-2022, 8:42 PM
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I usually outshoot my buddies with sako and Christensen arms using my tikka or TC venture. They are nice rigs.
Just cause you got cash but no time for trigger time to practice all season long. Doesn’t mean jack in the field
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:45 PM
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Be sure to handle any & all rifles you think either you or your son are interested in. If you handle enough, you’ll find the one that fits/feels best. Also, you said your son is 14. Give some thought to how much he’ll grow. A youth/compact may fit now, but he may outgrow it, and possibly quickly.
My 5’4 daughter shoots a Browning X-Bolt compact in .243 with a Leupold VX2 3x9x40. It fit’s her well and she shoots it well. With 80gr Barnes TTSX, she dumps Deer & Antelope.

Just my $0.02.
Don’t skimp on boots or glass (bino’s & scope).

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