CALGUNNERS SPECIAL PRICING AR MAGLOCK/KINGPIN Gen 4 FINAL MONTH

[cxr]

Originally Posted by swamp2

armaglock2.com up with Kingpin! Congrats @protohyp. Order placed!

Minor suggestion, black would look much better than raw steel (IMHO). There are nice durable black coatings for stainless like Ultra Blak...

thought it was being paired with the wheeled Gen3??? sooo confused

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by cxr

thought it was being paired with the wheeled Gen3??? sooo confused

It’s all in the very first post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[isaax]

[QUOTE=bkm;21548306]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Let me guess, individual units will be available in 2 weeks? Any idea on when they might actually be available? I've been holding off on getting the JT pin!

+1 Please consider offering the KingPin separately. I already have a maglock that's specific to my New Frontier AR9 lower. I can't justify spending $100 for the Kingpin and a ARmaglock that won't work with my lower.

Thanks for your consideration

[comifornia:(]

Where do I order one of these gizmos?

[cxr]

Originally Posted by protohyp

It’s all in the very first post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I read that but I'm referring to your IG live where its supposed to only work with the wheeled GEN3. can you please explain. I'm guessing that's delayed. But don't want to buy this and a week later the Gen3 is released

[protohyp]

[QUOTE=isaax;21548586]

Originally Posted by bkm

+1 Please consider offering the KingPin separately. I already have a maglock that's specific to my New Frontier AR9 lower. I can't justify spending $100 for the Kingpin and a ARmaglock that won't work with my lower.



Thanks for your consideration

As stated they will be available separately once my site is up but all available inventory is going to the AR Maglock kits.

I can’t verify that the AR 9 kit will function with any of the minimal opening pin systems. I’ve seen one before but the thickness of the arm that goes into the space is a critical measurement. You may have to file down a little bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by cxr

Yes, I read that but I'm referring to your IG live where its supposed to only work with the wheeled GEN3. can you please explain. I'm guessing that's delayed. But don't want to buy this and a week later the Gen3 is released

Ah yes. The Hyperswitch works with ANY system out there that requires the upper to open completely or even minimally. Yes it was meant to be paired with the Gen 3 arm and both are yet to be released. We have yet to put in production orders for the Hyperswitch but pretty close.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cxr]

K ordered two

[isaax]

[QUOTE=protohyp;21548619]

Originally Posted by isaax

As stated they will be available separately once my site is up but all available inventory is going to the AR Maglock kits.

I can’t verify that the AR 9 kit will function with any of the minimal opening pin systems. I’ve seen one before but the thickness of the arm that goes into the space is a critical measurement. You may have to file down a little bit

Ok, thanks! I've been lurking/following this thread and your Instagram. I had assumed you were an owner of ARMaglock lol.

[protohyp]

[QUOTE=isaax;21548831]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Ok, thanks! I've been lurking/following this thread and your Instagram. I had assumed you were an owner of ARMaglock lol.

No i'm not. but definitely push the system because of the double feed scenario

[snovvman]

Would Kingpin + auto release ever be possible? I know systems like AR Maglock 3/Cross Armory SAFE MAG 2 require a larger opening in order to actuate the auto release. Could there be a design that would automatically release the mag by the slight opening offered by the Kingpin? Thanks.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by snovvman

Would Kingpin + auto release ever be possible? I know systems like AR Maglock 3/Cross Armory SAFE MAG 2 require a larger opening in order to actuate the auto release. Could there be a design that would automatically release the mag by the slight opening offered by the Kingpin? Thanks.

Something like this?!?!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alexantics]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Something like this?!?!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I want that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by alexantics

I want that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah this is with the Freedom Follower.

I will be testing live fire with this next week to see how consistent it is.

I've had to make adjustments to springs to get it a little more consistent.

Honestly though if you're pushing the Maglock at the same time you're pushing the Kingpin your changes are going to be blazing fast anyway

[snovvman]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Something like this?!?!

That is quite the tease! How is it done? Edit: Answered above.

I am deliberately late to the game to see what compliance solutions surface with rifles/pistols. I spent much time last night reviewing options like Kingpin + AR MAG 2, HyperSwitch + ?, Juggernaut, Cross Armory solutions, etc.

I like the idea of a small opening release. Even with a tether and a Pin Pal, a full/large opening leaves a lot to be desired. A small opening is faster (less travel), more efficient, and Kingpin uniquely allows for easier malfunction clearing. I think I heard in one of the videos that the Kingpin and the AR Mag Lock can be pressed at the same time for a single step release. So far, that sounds great.

The case for a larger opening (HyperSwitch, et. al.) solution is that it gives way to an auto mag release. Without having looked more, my thought was that enough travel was needed to engage [whatever] auto mag release.

The pièce de résistance would be the option of a small opening, auto mag release.

Is there a mix of products that makes this possible? Edit: Answered above.

Another important question: Is the wear/stress points of the Kingpin solution on the Kingpin + rear take down holes? If yes, is the alloy upper/lower softer than the stainless Kingpin and therefore the holes will wear before the Kingpin?

Thank you.

[snovvman]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Honestly though if you're pushing the Maglock at the same time you're pushing the Kingpin your changes are going to be blazing fast anyway

This is a good point. Are there also potential benefits to decoupling the open-action to the mag drop where opening the action does not necessitate a mag drop?

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by snovvman

That is quite the tease! How is it done?



I am deliberately late to the game to see what compliance solutions surface with rifles/pistols. I spent much time last night reviewing options like Kingpin + AR MAG 2, HyperSwitch + ?, Juggernaut, Cross Armory solutions, etc.



I like the idea of a small opening release. Even with a tether and a Pin Pal, a full/large opening leaves a lot to be desired. A small opening is faster (less travel), more efficient, and Kingpin uniquely allows for easier malfunction clearing. I think I heard in one of the videos that the Kingpin and the AR Mag Lock can be pressed at the same time for a single step release. So far, that sounds great.



The case for a larger opening (HyperSwitch, et. al.) solution is that it gives way to an auto mag release. Without having looked more, my thought was that enough travel was needed to engage [whatever] auto mag release.



The pièce de résistance would be the option of a small opening, auto mag release. Is there a mix of products that makes this possible?



Another important question: Is the wear/stress points of the Kingpin solution on the Kingpin + rear take down holes? If yes, is the alloy upper/lower softer than the stainless Kingpin and therefore the holes will wear before the Kingpin?



Thank you.

So if you follow any of my other threads you know I have a product called the Freedom Follower which fits into Magpul mags and auto releases magazines on empty. It was designed for free state use but we have california 10 round followers that can be used with featureless rifles.



here is that thread



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1370979



basically I have been testing it with the new Gen 2 Maglock and Kingpin and it works...but not consistently and i'm trying to dial that in. As I said i'll do some live fire video this week to check the results but as of now the Freedom Follower product still hasn't been released.



And yes on my mag changes I press both at the same time.



Also if you check on my youtube channel as well as the first post on this thread under torture test I'm basically throwing the Kingpin rifle across the range to show the durability of the rifle as well as the pin. I'm someone that trains to fight...not to baby my rifles so i have 20000+ cycles of all the systems from Hyperswitch to Kingpin and i'm talking about ABUSIVE cycles with no detrimental effects.



for full opening systems like the Hyperswitch with the Gen3 auto releasing AR Maglock (yet to be released)... DO NOT LET GO of your upper. There is no reason to. that will cause wear. I can do a very quick mag change with this system but mainly because I practice as if its going to save my life.



I call BS on the featureless guys that say any maglock system isn't the way to go as if they wouldn't pick up the rifle to defend themselves. You have to practice with what system you use, over and over again! but now with the Kingpin and AR Maglock Gen 2 we have malfunction clearing it shouldn't even be a question which system to use.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by snovvman

This is a good point. Are there also potential benefits to decoupling the open-action to the mag drop where opening the action does not necessitate a mag drop?

not really other than clearing malfunctions. the only reason to open the upper is to release the mag or to show how brilliant the Kingpin is. haha

[Aleous]

Just bought 2. Probably gonna need like 2 or 3 more.

Question: I have two AR-10(technically DPMS style LR-308's) that need converting, but the Ar Maglock with Kingpin specifically says 223/5.56.

So are we waiting on a 7.62/308 version?

Thanks.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by Aleous

Just bought 2. Probably gonna need like 2 or 3 more.

Question: I have two AR-10(technically DPMS style LR-308's) that need converting, but the Ar Maglock with Kingpin specifically says 223/5.56.

So are we waiting on a 7.62/308 version?

Thanks.

That’s a possibility and we will update you as soon as we get to the drawing board for that. Currently all of our resources are focused on A.R. 15’s. Because of the variables on the 308 markets as far as receiver tolerances it’s a little bit tougher to achieve this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twowheel]

So excited!!!

Just got mine in the mail.

[protohyp]

This is how to do a California Reload


https://instagram.com/p/BiFzHCZnCRC/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swamp2]

Kingpin and ARMaglock Gen 2 installed. Brilliant pin and a super solid combo. Massively faster reloads compared to Bullet Button. Congrats again Protohyp.

For my personal choice I am not red (almost permanent) Loctiting the screw nor drilling out the head. Tools can turn any rifle at any time into an illegal configuration.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Kingpin and ARMaglock Gen 2 installed. Brilliant pin and a super solid combo. Massively faster reloads compared to Bullet Button. Congrats again Protohyp.

For my personal choice I am not red (almost permanent) Loctiting the screw nor drilling out the head. Tools can turn any rifle at any time into an illegal configuration.

Thanks and 100% agree! Enjoy and let us know how it does on the range!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cxr]

Received mine when are you coming over to install 😂😂😂

[daleo500]

Kingpin and armaglock received. Installation was a breeze.

Only issue I seem to have is during bolt hold back. Separation between upper and lower is less when bolt is held back and there isn't enough clearance for the ARMaglock to actuate and release mag.

Seems my only option here is to file/wet sand the mag lock a bit.

[mlentzner]

Originally Posted by daleo500

Only issue I seem to have is during bolt hold back. Separation between upper and lower is less when bolt is held back and there isn't enough clearance for the ARMaglock to actuate and release mag.

Seems my only option here is to file/wet sand the mag lock a bit.

I was wondering about that very thing. When the bolt is held back you only have enough room to move the bolt carrier to the top of the recoil tube, right?

[daleo500]

Originally Posted by mlentzner

I was wondering about that very thing. When the bolt is held back you only have enough room to move the bolt carrier to the top of the recoil tube, right?

that'd be my guess. The BCG is wedged between the upper and the receiver extension when locked back and the upper is cracked open. Charging handle still slides freely.

Upper is BCM and lower is Mega gator. Two two fit very well together with no daylight when closed.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by daleo500

Kingpin and armaglock received. Installation was a breeze.



Only issue I seem to have is during bolt hold back. Separation between upper and lower is less when bolt is held back and there isn't enough clearance for the ARMaglock to actuate and release mag.



Seems my only option here is to file/wet sand the mag lock a bit.

Tighter tolerances affect performance. Shoot it a bunch first before you do anything. The rifle will naturally loosen up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trailtundra]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Tighter tolerances affect performance. Shoot it a bunch first before you do anything. The rifle will naturally loosen up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What exactly will loosen up?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by daleo500

Kingpin and armaglock received. Installation was a breeze.

Only issue I seem to have is during bolt hold back. Separation between upper and lower is less when bolt is held back and there isn't enough clearance for the ARMaglock to actuate and release mag.

Seems my only option here is to file/wet sand the mag lock a bit.

I did not have this problem but Protohyp also pointed out to me (via PM) that there is room to align the slim tab before fully tightening the screw. Check that first.

Obviously, instructions with unit say some filing may be required. I think I would try a small bevel on the leading edges of the small tab first and then move on to the changing the actual thickness of the tab itself. Either way if it just won't fit, seems like you'll have to adjust before shooting. Hope it turns out well.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by trailtundra

What exactly will loosen up?

Everything on the rifle will loosen up. My Daniel Defense MK18 was tight but after 30,000 rounds you’d think it was PSA. Haha


The other thing you can try is a standard Mag Catch spring. See if that helps resetting the maglock if you’re able to get it in the slim crack. Honestly I would use filing as a last resort but if you’re going to file just take a couple swipes at a time and test

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daleo500]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I did not have this problem but Protohyp also pointed out to me (via PM) that there is room to align the slim tab before fully tightening the screw. Check that first.

Obviously, instructions with unit say some filing may be required. I think I would try a small bevel on the leading edges of the small tab first and then move on to the changing the actual thickness of the tab itself. Either way if it just won't fit, seems like you'll have to adjust before shooting. Hope it turns out well.

Thanks.
I need to check with some calipers, but looking at the maglock by eye, it's milled I a wedge shape with one side slightly thinner towards forward take down. Thicker towards rear takedown. I can get the maglock to engage (with bolt back) if I force it a bit, but it binds and gets stuck. I have to press the opposite mag catch side to return it back to normal. Definite interference. Thicker side of the maglock shows wear at the thicker side of the Maglock With anodizing rubbing away. I've done this with and without the spring while test fitting.

Originally Posted by protohyp

Everything on the rifle will loosen up. My Daniel Defense MK18 was tight but after 30,000 rounds you’d think it was PSA. Haha


The other thing you can try is a standard Mag Catch spring. See if that helps resetting the maglock if you’re able to get it in the slim crack. Honestly I would use filing as a last resort but if you’re going to file just take a couple swipes at a time and test

I can wait to see if things break in and loosen up, but it doesn't help if/when a double feed happens. Ability to safely clear malfunctions was one of the key features that sold me on the solution.

I'm not knocking the solution you have here. There's a lot of variables in play here with parts from a multitude of manuf. to deal with; factory fresh to well worn and used. Just commenting on what I'm dealing with.

[drfeelsgood211]

Just installed 2 kingpins with the hogue freedom fighter plunger fixed mag system. I now have two rifles that function like an AR should (with one additional button press). I can clear double feeds I can drop mags with the bolt locked back. I almost feel free again. Thank you protohyp. Any chance we can buy the kingpin separately from the AR Maglock? I’m putting kingpins on everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by daleo500

Thanks.
I need to check with some calipers, but looking at the maglock by eye, it's milled I a wedge shape with one side slightly thinner towards forward take down. Thicker towards rear takedown. I can get the maglock to engage (with bolt back) if I force it a bit, but it binds and gets stuck. I have to press the opposite mag catch side to return it back to normal. Definite interference. Thicker side of the maglock shows wear at the thicker side of the Maglock With anodizing rubbing away. I've done this with and without the spring while test fitting.



I can wait to see if things break in and loosen up, but it doesn't help if/when a double feed happens. Ability to safely clear malfunctions was one of the key features that sold me on the solution.

I'm not knocking the solution you have here. There's a lot of variables in play here with parts from a multitude of manuf. to deal with; factory fresh to well worn and used. Just commenting on what I'm dealing with.

Hey Daleo500

I understand whats going on and want to make sure I address this correctly.

I've put this on over 50 rifles with multiple mixed uppers and lowers from all brands and it did not work on all of them. That is unfortunately the way it is in the mil spec world but as you can see with that wedge the engineers had to approach it from the point that it still needs to be robust enough to do its primary job which is to lock the mag.

I have mentioned multiple times in this thread and other threads that tight tolerances will affect function of both the pin and the maglock.

In regards to the pin, if you use wedges or have a set screw to keep the upper receiver snug to the lower forget it. That pin will be hard to push or reset right off the bat.

If you're receiver is cerakoted, again the pin will probably have a hard time moving in either direction. We have had to engineer a pin specifically for Daniel Defense for their rifles because of these tolerances

In regards to the AR Maglock. in most cases of a rifle with tight tolerances i was able to push with a little more force the Maglock to fit in the crack. If this is a scenario where you absolutely had to clear a malfunction it is still the safest way to do it. Every thousands of an inch counts and AR Maglock had to make 50 arms with different wedge dimensions, different heights, and even mag catch pad heights and I had to go through each and every one of them and install on multiple rifles to give everyone the best result. Even anodizing adds measurable thickness to affect function but as I said I had to pick from the lot the one that gave the best results. This is why launch has been delayed so many times to try to get it as right as possible.

But we are learning from this and have solutions.

1. ensure that the arm is perfectly level to the lower receiver. this will make sure its not getting hung up on anything. even a sharp edge on the maglock or the receiver is enough to keep it from pushing in.

2. with your upper receiver on the lower, remove the kingpin and rotate the upper open. twist the upper receiver clockwise and counterclockwise. if it won't move at all then your tolerances are pretty tight but will eventually loosen up with use. If you watch some of my videos and see my rifles you can see that I use them and abuse them. I dont expect you to do the same but if you baby your rifles and shoot once a month maybe 50 rounds that really isn't going to cut it.

3. if your upper receiver is new remember that the BCG to receiver contact is SUPER tight. remember it only takes .001 of an inch at a time to change things. When that BCG starts to wear down the anodize on the inside of the receiver that will open things up and will eventually allow the BCG to angle a little more when in the buffer tube. that will eventually allow for a larger gap when the kingpin is depressed.

4. If your rifle is cerakoted you're gonna have to put some work in on your end to get it to function. shooting the rifle isn't going to loosen anything up because now contact surfaces on the inside of the takedown pin hole and the build up on the receivers aren't going to help at all. This is our issue with Daniel Defense rifles on their Tornado Grey and FDE cerakoted finishes. Where I needed 50 different arms from AR Maglock to test function, DD wants 150 different pins so this is quite the undertaking but DD will ONLY use AR Maglock out of their factory so its worth the sweat.

5. Try using a STANDARD mag catch spring in place of the AR Maglock spring. This may help the Maglock reset.


Anyway. There are multiple ways to again help the system along and I will only put filing the maglock as the last resort. It is a wedge shape for a reason but just be precise if you take this step.

Again we can't please everyone and everyone is obviously going to get different results but definitely go out and shoot it as much as you can and measure every outing if there has been a change. when you're upwards of 1500-2000 rounds you should start to notice a measurable difference in the gap.

Thanks again for your report. It helps us improve and document for productions purposes.

EDIT Daleo500 suggested polishing the tab if the tolerances are too tight. thats a great suggestion as its least invasive of all the solutions. Thanks for the suggestion!

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by drfeelsgood211

Just installed 2 kingpins with the hogue freedom fighter plunger fixed mag system. I now have two rifles that function like an AR should (with one additional button press). I can clear double feeds I can drop mags with the bolt locked back. I almost feel free again. Thank you protohyp. Any chance we can buy the kingpin separately from the AR Maglock? I’m putting kingpins on everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes we will eventually sell kingpins separately but have to have a surplus of inventory to do that and as of yet our machinist is working overtime to keep up with the demand for AR Maglock. This may get worse as the June 30 deadline approaches but hang on tight. We will get there. And thanks for the report on the Hogue freedom fighter. Glad that works out for you!

[drfeelsgood211]

Originally Posted by protohyp

Yes we will eventually sell kingpins separately but have to have a surplus of inventory to do that and as of yet our machinist is working overtime to keep up with the demand for AR Maglock. This may get worse as the June 30 deadline approaches but hang on tight. We will get there. And thanks for the report on the Hogue freedom fighter. Glad that works out for you!

Thank you for the info. And the hogue kit works absolutely perfectly. Probably a good solution for those complaining about the tight tolerance AR Maglock issue, as you can dremel the top of the plunger just enough to get functionality you want and keep it ca compliant. Again thank you so much. The pin is so much better quality than the JT pin. I’m probably gonna bite the bullet on cost and order some more now so if anyone needs just the AR Maglock 2 without the Kingpin, PM me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[protohyp]

Here is a live fire video with a double feed.

https://instagram.com/p/BiIJ1AeH7LV/

[daleo500]

@protohyp

Appreciate the time you took for that response.

The rifle was recently completed a couple weeks ago and has seen just one range outing for 350 rounds. Tolerances are pretty tight and can rotate as you mention, but only a very small amount. Receiver isn't ceracoated.

If anything, I may run a bit of polishing compound or micromesh over the wedge section to see if I can reduce the friction. We'll see if that helps. Will try the standard spring as you suggested also.

Thanks again.

[protohyp]

Originally Posted by daleo500

@protohyp

Appreciate the time you took for that response.

The rifle was recently completed a couple weeks ago and has seen just one range outing for 350 rounds. Tolerances are pretty tight and can rotate as you mention, but only a very small amount. Receiver isn't ceracoated.

If anything, I may run a bit of polishing compound or micromesh over the wedge section to see if I can reduce the friction. We'll see if that helps. Will try the standard spring as you suggested also.

Thanks again.

Awesome. I like that idea of polishing compound. you may be able to take a dremel with a polishing wheel and take off some of the anodizing 'tooth' from the arm. but I think thats a GREAT suggestion on polishing it. I'll add that to the suggestions