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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #81  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Livetoride33 View Post
No.
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Brilliant argument there. Really thought out. Which Faux news host are you quoting.
why does it need to be an argument?

Accept "no" and move on.
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  #82  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:57 AM
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One party wants to be left alone. The other party wants to meddle. You decide where the "Anti-Vac" crowd stands.
I could get that, but then If they want to be left alone why start daily threads about it?
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  #83  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:05 AM
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I could get that, but then If they want to be left alone why start daily threads about it?
There are some posters that do. I'm not claiming that one side is completely innocent while the other is completely guilty, but one side CLEARLY has no right telling others what to do. I haven't read one thread YET that TELLS me NOT to get vaccinated. I have only read that vaccines are ineffective and possibly dangerous.

Yet certain posters CLEARLY tell us to GET the vaccine.
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  #84  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:05 AM
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I could get that, but then If they want to be left alone why start daily threads about it?
because it's pushed down everyone's throats daily...

It's easy to skip thread you aren't interested in though.
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  #85  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:53 AM
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There are some posters that do. I'm not claiming that one side is completely innocent while the other is completely guilty, but one side CLEARLY has no right telling others what to do. I haven't read one thread YET that TELLS me NOT to get vaccinated. I have only read that vaccines are ineffective and possibly dangerous.

Yet certain posters CLEARLY tell us to GET the vaccine.
That's kinda disingenuous though.

Peddling lies and propaganda about the safety of the vaccine is telling people not to get it. Like the lie about miscarriages. The lies about the number of people who died from the vaccine. The lies about it being made of 'dead babies'. The lies about sterility.

It's strange to see the parallels between the anti-gun crowd the anti-vax crowd here. Replace 'vaccine' with 'assault rifle' and 'faucci' with 'Wayne LaPierre' and you'd get posts straight out of the Brady Campaign's message board.
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  #86  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
That's kinda disingenuous though.

Peddling lies and propaganda about the safety of the vaccine is telling people not to get it. Like the lie about miscarriages. The lies about the number of people who died from the vaccine. The lies about it being made of 'dead babies'. The lies about sterility.

It's strange to see the parallels between the anti-gun crowd the anti-vax crowd here. Replace 'vaccine' with 'assault rifle' and 'faucci' with 'Wayne LaPierre' and you'd get posts straight out of the Brady Campaign's message board.
Again you're making a blanket statement for those who are ALSO being cautious about getting the jab. If you want to believe there are three parties involved, fine, but it's entirely inappropriate to tell others what to do whether it's about a vaccine or what NOT to eat for example. People have different responses to medicine. Just like food. Would you tell someone to eat peanut butter NOT knowing that they might go into anaphylaxis?

The vaccine is NEW. There is a lot we DON'T know about it.

But what DO we know??? Well for starters it's not 100% effective for the prevention of Covid to everyone who decides to get vaccinated.
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  #87  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
That's kinda disingenuous though.

Peddling lies and propaganda about the safety of the vaccine is telling people not to get it. Like the lie about miscarriages. The lies about the number of people who died from the vaccine. The lies about it being made of 'dead babies'. The lies about sterility.

It's strange to see the parallels between the anti-gun crowd the anti-vax crowd here. Replace 'vaccine' with 'assault rifle' and 'faucci' with 'Wayne LaPierre' and you'd get posts straight out of the Brady Campaign's message board.
What's scary is that someone like you that lacks critical thinking skills might actually own a firearm.
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  #88  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:19 PM
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https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170...e-unvaccinated

"There is a clear message that is coming through: This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said at a Friday briefing of the White House COVID-19 Response Team. "Our biggest concern is we are going to continue to see preventable cases, hospitalizations and sadly deaths among the unvaccinated."

More than 99% of recent deaths were among the unvaccinated, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said earlier this month on NBC's Meet the Press, while Walensky noted on Friday that unvaccinated people accounted for over 97% of hospitalizations.

The vaccine doesn't make you flaccid; it won't turn you into a zombie; It won't kill you.

Get the shot.
If you manage to kill me you can inject me with whatever you want. Until then, no.
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  #89  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
That's kinda disingenuous though.

Peddling lies and propaganda about the safety of the vaccine is telling people not to get it. Like the lie about miscarriages. The lies about the number of people who died from the vaccine. The lies about it being made of 'dead babies'. The lies about sterility.

It's strange to see the parallels between the anti-gun crowd the anti-vax crowd here. Replace 'vaccine' with 'assault rifle' and 'faucci' with 'Wayne LaPierre' and you'd get posts straight out of the Brady Campaign's message board.
Except those aren't lies...
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  #90  
Old 07-21-2021, 2:19 PM
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Again you're making a blanket statement for those who are ALSO being cautious about getting the jab. If you want to believe there are three parties involved, fine, but it's entirely inappropriate to tell others what to do whether it's about a vaccine or what NOT to eat for example. People have different responses to medicine. Just like food. Would you tell someone to eat peanut butter NOT knowing that they might go into anaphylaxis?

The vaccine is NEW. There is a lot we DON'T know about it.

But what DO we know??? Well for starters it's not 100% effective for the prevention of Covid to everyone who decides to get vaccinated.
You are absolutely correct. There are people who are genuinely concerned about the effects and simply don't feel comfortable getting it. That's fine. I have nothing against them, and as time goes on and the lack of significant adverse events continue, they should eventually be won over. And again, that's fine.

I have much against those who spread lies and propganda. People who spread the bull**** that the vaccine causes miscarriages. That it has killed thousands of people. That it sterilizes you. That it is somehow more harmful than Covid itself.

Again, if you're genuinely worried about the vaccine, that's cool.
If you spread lies and propaganda, that's not.
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  #91  
Old 07-21-2021, 2:24 PM
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There are some posters that do. I'm not claiming that one side is completely innocent while the other is completely guilty, but one side CLEARLY has no right telling others what to do. I haven't read one thread YET that TELLS me NOT to get vaccinated. I have only read that vaccines are ineffective and possibly dangerous.

Yet certain posters CLEARLY tell us to GET the vaccine.
So perhaps blocking them would be a better response then 13 new threads a day (I don't mean Meno but some people just go on and on). And the less fact based the arguments (on both sides) the worse we all look.
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  #92  
Old 07-21-2021, 2:29 PM
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You are absolutely correct. There are people who are genuinely concerned about the effects and simply don't feel comfortable getting it. That's fine. I have nothing against them, and as time goes on and the lack of significant adverse events continue, they should eventually be won over. And again, that's fine.

I have much against those who spread lies and propganda. People who spread the bull**** that the vaccine causes miscarriages. That it has killed thousands of people. That it sterilizes you. That it is somehow more harmful than Covid itself.

Again, if you're genuinely worried about the vaccine, that's cool.
If you spread lies and propaganda, that's not.
they would never give you something harmful, right big mike?

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/...des-fact-sheet
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  #93  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:24 PM
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Again you're making a blanket statement for those who are ALSO being cautious about getting the jab. If you want to believe there are three parties involved, fine, but it's entirely inappropriate to tell others what to do whether it's about a vaccine or what NOT to eat for example. People have different responses to medicine. Just like food. Would you tell someone to eat peanut butter NOT knowing that they might go into anaphylaxis?

The vaccine is NEW. There is a lot we DON'T know about it.

But what DO we know??? Well for starters it's not 100% effective for the prevention of Covid to everyone who decides to get vaccinated.
1. I'm not making a blanket statement about all people who don't get the vaccine. I specifically pointed out nuances.
2. It is NOT inappropriate to urge people to do something positive. And in fact, there are government mandates in place that already enforce vaccinations (education and military primarily). AND to be clear, I'm not in favor of mandating vaccinations for everyone; I am in favor of pushing the vaccine as much as we can.
3. No one ever said it was 100%. They did say it was likely 90 - 95% effective against serious COVID symptoms, which seems to be borne out by the real world statistics. There was a discussion some time ago about why you could still be a carrier even while vaccinated (has to do with the type of antibodies in your mucus membranes vs what's in your blood as a whole, time to response ,etc).

Again. If you have a legitimate concern about the vaccine, that's fine. But if you're someone who's pushing propaganda and lies designed to discourage people from taking it, that's bad.
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  #94  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:26 PM
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they would never give you something harmful, right big mike?

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/...des-fact-sheet
Never said that. But what you linked, again, shows the process at work. Early studies show something to be safe and is approved. Long term studies show something bad is happening, and it's pulled.
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  #95  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:26 PM
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Except those aren't lies...
Except they are ....
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  #96  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:33 PM
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what it actually demonstrates is that the pharma companies can manipulate or fake the data in their clinical trials to make their products appear safe, when they are demonstrably not safe.

personally, i would not trust a company that makes billions more than they are penalized when they are caught killing people with their fraud.
So two things.

First...clinical studies are run in fairly stringent ways, especially now. Anyone on the pharma side who who sees study falsification can get a **** ton of money as part of a whistleblower suit. It's hard to outright fabricate these results.

Secondly, but you're right. In many cases, the consequences for malfeasance don't properly compensate for the benefits they gain. That's something we should fix, no question.
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  #97  
Old 07-21-2021, 10:35 PM
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"Get the shot" says the guy who doesn't comprehend the data in the MSM parroted 12% vs. the actual 82% spontaneous abortions/miscarriages/DEAD BABIES of preggos who get the rona jab in their first term vs. those who received the jab in their 3rd term who should be totally excluded from these numbers.
We've been over this. Your stats are bull****. You're confusing the completed pregnancies stats with the total population. Stop it.
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  #98  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:20 PM
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We've been over this. Your stats are bull****. You're confusing the completed pregnancies stats with the total population. Stop it.
So everyone else's "stats are bs" and they need to "stop it"... but your stats and info are legit and you get to continue.

Do I have that right?
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  #99  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:24 PM
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So everyone else's "stats are bs" and they need to "stop it"... but your stats and info are legit and you get to continue.

Do I have that right?
No. You don't. It literally requires reading the paper in question.
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  #100  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:48 PM
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No. You don't. It literally requires reading the paper in question.
"The paper" - mmmhmm okay
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GET OFF MY CACTUS!
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  #101  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:50 PM
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"The paper" - mmmhmm okay
Yeah. The paper that has the research.

Sorry, do you want a comic instead?
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  #102  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:53 PM
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Yeah. The paper that has the research.

Sorry, do you want a comic instead?
Mmmhmmm "the paper"
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GET OFF MY CACTUS!
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  #103  
Old 07-22-2021, 12:02 AM
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Mmmhmmm "the paper"
I'll try to get you some crayons to help you out. No worries.
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  #104  
Old 07-22-2021, 5:34 AM
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Never said that. But what you linked, again, shows the process at work. Early studies show something to be safe and is approved. Long term studies show something bad is happening, and it's pulled.
the drug never even did what it claimed. it did nothing but harm.
you are clueless.
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  #105  
Old 07-22-2021, 5:53 AM
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So two things.

First...clinical studies are run in fairly stringent ways, especially now. Anyone on the pharma side who who sees study falsification can get a **** ton of money as part of a whistleblower suit. It's hard to outright fabricate these results.

Secondly, but you're right. In many cases, the consequences for malfeasance don't properly compensate for the benefits they gain. That's something we should fix, no question.
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  #106  
Old 07-22-2021, 6:23 AM
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So two things.

First...clinical studies are run in fairly stringent ways, especially now. Anyone on the pharma side who who sees study falsification can get a **** ton of money as part of a whistleblower suit. It's hard to outright fabricate these results.

Secondly, but you're right. In many cases, the consequences for malfeasance don't properly compensate for the benefits they gain. That's something we should fix, no question.
"Now we are not going to be able to, basically, if this continues, publish any more clinical research data because the pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful today, and are able to use such methodologies, as to have us accept papers which are apparently methodologically perfect, but which, in reality, manage to conclude what they want them to conclude," said Lancet EIC Richard Horton.

Kris Held,MD
@kksheld
Replying to
@JamesTodaroMD
Intellectual dishonesty using purposeful manipulation of scientific data to produce results profitable to big pharma while patients suffer. We physicians have been warning of this potential malfeasance with “meaningful use” EHR and data harvesting. Like required with MIPS/MACRA.
4:24 PM · Jun 9, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

https://twitter.com/kksheld/status/1270496987285204993

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  #107  
Old 07-22-2021, 6:46 AM
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  #108  
Old 07-22-2021, 6:58 AM
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^^^ so you're saying bigmike is Brytney Cobia
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  #109  
Old 07-22-2021, 7:05 AM
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I'll try to get you some crayons to help you out. No worries.
No one wants your pre chewed crayons....
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  #110  
Old 07-22-2021, 7:07 AM
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^^^ so you're saying bigmike is Brytney Cobia
lol, i think it is just sad that so many like big mike have such faith in "the system" that has let us down so many times.

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  #111  
Old 07-22-2021, 7:12 AM
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soooooooooooooooo
they're going to do a 'trial' to check safety / efficacy of the vaccine in pregnant women.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04958304

but note..
it's OK for OBSERVATIONAL trials for the vaccines...

but we discount ANY observational trial of ANY therapeutic (except remdisiver... cos that's worth $3k a shot)

Whatever the outcome of this trial (and I predict it'll say 150% safety), we should automatically discount it... because its observational
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  #112  
Old 07-22-2021, 7:12 AM
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lol, i think it is just sad that so many like big mike have such faith in "the system" that has let us down so many times.

About 60% of the population falls into that category, I'm afraid. My parents are full brainwashed. The entire family on my wife's side is completely brainwashed.

The boomers grew up trusting the news. At some point there was a bait & switch and the MSM became mouthpieces for powerful political factions.
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  #113  
Old 07-22-2021, 7:15 AM
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She’s not lying. Because you know “theoretically” it could have happened.

The end always justifies the means for lefty.
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  #114  
Old 07-22-2021, 8:42 AM
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How was Polio and Smallpox eradicated?
I'd like to answer this because it is a valid question.

Let's start with Polio. I'd be willing to bet many of you did not know it took nearly 50 years to come up with a vaccine for poliovirus AND it took nearly 20 years to go from early vaccine trials to full blown administration of said vaccine.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio

Compare that to less than a year for Covid19


Let's talk about smallpox. This disease had been around for more than 1000 years before we created a vaccine. Not only that, there was HARSH opposition to said vaccine around the world.

The first smallpox vaccine was created in 1796. It wasn't until the 1950's that the vaccine actually started to eradicate smallpox. There is no cure for smallpox and it does still exist to this day.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/smallpox

So think about the implications of getting a vaccine wrong. Humans die, we succumb to disease and have done so over thousands of years. Nothing is going to change that. But a poorly engineered vaccine has the potential to do more harm than good.
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  #115  
Old 07-22-2021, 9:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
I'd like to answer this because it is a valid question.

Let's start with Polio. I'd be willing to bet many of you did not know it took nearly 50 years to come up with a vaccine for poliovirus AND it took nearly 20 years to go from early vaccine trials to full blown administration of said vaccine.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio

Compare that to less than a year for Covid19


Let's talk about smallpox. This disease had been around for more than 1000 years before we created a vaccine. Not only that, there was HARSH opposition to said vaccine around the world.

The first smallpox vaccine was created in 1796. It wasn't until the 1950's that the vaccine actually started to eradicate smallpox. There is no cure for smallpox and it does still exist to this day.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/smallpox

So think about the implications of getting a vaccine wrong. Humans die, we succumb to disease and have done so over thousands of years. Nothing is going to change that. But a poorly engineered vaccine has the potential to do more harm than good.
You shouldn't win the internet today because this is information that is known. But you should win the internet today because this is information that we should remind ourselves why the human race destroys itself more than nature.
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  #116  
Old 07-22-2021, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
I'd like to answer this because it is a valid question.

Let's start with Polio. I'd be willing to bet many of you did not know it took nearly 50 years to come up with a vaccine for poliovirus AND it took nearly 20 years to go from early vaccine trials to full blown administration of said vaccine.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/polio

Compare that to less than a year for Covid19


Let's talk about smallpox. This disease had been around for more than 1000 years before we created a vaccine. Not only that, there was HARSH opposition to said vaccine around the world.

The first smallpox vaccine was created in 1796. It wasn't until the 1950's that the vaccine actually started to eradicate smallpox. There is no cure for smallpox and it does still exist to this day.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline/smallpox

So think about the implications of getting a vaccine wrong. Humans die, we succumb to disease and have done so over thousands of years. Nothing is going to change that. But a poorly engineered vaccine has the potential to do more harm than good.

Apologies, but I do not really understand your references. You highlight arguably the first vaccine by Edward Jenner as well as the work of Jonas Salk who was revolutionary in modern virology and the time it took to develop and eradicate two diseases and imply that its unreasonable to be as fast as we are in 2020/2021. The problem I have with that is that is, well sure all technology speeds up over time - look at computing power. I would expect vaccines to be developed much faster that 70 years ago.
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2. If someone out of the blue calls you racist. Consider they are likely a troll from some shadowy place like Democratic Underground.

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  #117  
Old 07-22-2021, 1:50 PM
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You are absolutely correct. There are people who are genuinely concerned about the effects and simply don't feel comfortable getting it. That's fine. I have nothing against them, and as time goes on and the lack of significant adverse events continue, they should eventually be won over. And again, that's fine.

I have much against those who spread lies and propganda. People who spread the bull**** that the vaccine causes miscarriages. That it has killed thousands of people. That it sterilizes you. That it is somehow more harmful than Covid itself.

Again, if you're genuinely worried about the vaccine, that's cool.
If you spread lies and propaganda, that's not.
calling out information as fair warning is hardly propaganda, it's the opposite.

The vaccine HAS killed thousands of people, according to your own CDC. We might even repeat that some have been reporting it's more than that, like the lawyer with the whistleblower that says 45,000.

We hear warnings from actual doctors who say there have been a lot of miscarriages; if that was not true, it bears investigation. But so far everything I've heard has been true, even the wacky magnetic thing. People like myself who are repeating these reports are doing so in good faith, to make sure people make their decisions with informed consent.

I would say also that the lies, outright lies, and lies of omission, are pretty much all on your side. Smear tactics, retaliation, censorship, all to keep the message clean that "the vaccine is 100% safe" when clearly it's not. In fact, the information coming out about now shows more deaths from the vaccine than the virus in a given week.

Even calling it a vaccine is a lie, so right off the bat you're not acting in good faith. Whatever, keep it up, you're doing a great job waking people up.
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  #118  
Old 07-22-2021, 2:01 PM
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calling out information as fair warning is hardly propaganda, it's the opposite.

The vaccine HAS killed thousands of people, according to your own CDC. We might even repeat that some have been reporting it's more than that, like the lawyer with the whistleblower that says 45,000.

We hear warnings from actual doctors who say there have been a lot of miscarriages; if that was not true, it bears investigation. But so far everything I've heard has been true, even the wacky magnetic thing. People like myself who are repeating these reports are doing so in good faith, to make sure people make their decisions with informed consent.

I would say also that the lies, outright lies, and lies of omission, are pretty much all on your side. Smear tactics, retaliation, censorship, all to keep the message clean that "the vaccine is 100% safe" when clearly it's not. In fact, the information coming out about now shows more deaths from the vaccine than the virus in a given week.

Even calling it a vaccine is a lie, so right off the bat you're not acting in good faith. Whatever, keep it up, you're doing a great job waking people up.
Don't bother reasoning with it/she/zhe. I think we've done all we can.
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  #119  
Old 07-22-2021, 2:03 PM
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Don't bother reasoning with it/she/zhe. I think we've done all we can.
itshezhe will be back in the middle of the night to spread troll bait.
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Music is magic - Wisdom is golden - Learning to navigate life better as we age is amazing and a choice.
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It only has as much power as you give it.
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Originally Posted by LBDamned
I know some things about a lot of things - and a lot of things about some things - but I don't know everything about anything
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Originally Posted by WartHog View Post
GET OFF MY CACTUS!
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  #120  
Old 07-22-2021, 2:13 PM
el chivo el chivo is offline
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Don't bother reasoning with it/she/zhe. I think we've done all we can.
yeah, but when he/she actually posted it's a lie that the vaccine has killed thousands, I had to post, since even the CDC admits to that. That's low hanging fruit.

I don't really respond to these posters to respond to them, but to show others that it's important to call them out. Crazy libs really don't get much push back since we all like to be polite and most people don't want trouble. The time has come to put the commie swarms back in their crypt for the next 17 years.
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