I.E. Reloading Workshop

[Darryl Licht]

Originally Posted by stilly

Careful with them.

I talked to Magnum Range but that place was rather small and they wanted like $50 or $90 an hour I think, That was prelim though. You might be able to get them to drop the rates a LOT and make it worth it.


As for the new range that opened over on Sterling, well, that place might have something to do with Warrior One I think. I am not certain, but W1 has gotten a sour reputation from a few folks that I have talked to. And by sour I mean W1 is a store that is getting to be known for being a bunch of dicks with overpriced **** that will cost you an arm and a leg and a left nut, well, not all of your left nut, just a scrape or two. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen how they treat you if you are not a know it all who has money sticking out of your pocket.

I could very well be wrong about the range, I think there were some Monthly shoots in the Riverside chapter there and they seemed to be pretty decent people but nobody that I knew Fighter Pilot did not show up so I did not go, but I read about the things online. They did not realyl say anything bad about a range in Riverside. I do NOT think it was the magnum range.

Anyways, my place is still available if you strike out. There is also a place in Rancho Cucamonga on the 9000 block of 9th called Rancho Magnum Range and I think I saw some good things about them, but I am not certain, it WAS yelp that I was reading so who knows who paid who to say what...

There are some rumors here regarding both W1 and RISR. They are affiliated, yes. We had about 6-8 of our CGSSA monthly shoots at RISR and I found it to be a very nice facility. I have been a customer of both and never have I had a bad experience at either.

RISR has a large facility with lots of space to hold a class such as this, and they are receptive to the idea. I have spoken with Tom and other employees regarding such a class expressing my interests.

W1 has donated items for giveaways at our monthly shoots and also for the recent SSZS. I find the owners Mike and Norris to be standup guys who care about their business, their customers, and their reputation!

W1 isn't a typical one stop gun shop, they are more of a specialty gun shop and they tend to carry more exotic (read expensive) items than other local shops.

Stilly I know where you used to work and I frequent that shop the most as it is my neighborhood shop, but I also like W1 for what they are. I wish people here would stop spreading negative rumors from secondhand info about any shops!

[stilly]

Originally Posted by Darryl Licht

There are some rumors here regarding both W1 and RISR. They are affiliated, yes. We had about 6-8 of our CGSSA monthly shoots at RISR and I found it to be a very nice facility. I have been a customer of both and never have I had a bad experience at either.

RISR has a large facility with lots of space to hold a class such as this, and they are receptive to the idea. I have spoken with Tom and other employees regarding such a class expressing my interests.

W1 has donated items for giveaways at our monthly shoots and also for the recent SSZS. I find the owners Mike and Norris to be standup guys who care about their business, their customers, and their reputation!

W1 isn't a typical one stop gun shop, they are more of a specialty gun shop and they tend to carry more exotic (read expensive) items than other local shops.

Stilly I know where you used to work and I frequent that shop the most as it is my neighborhood shop, but I also like W1 for what they are. I wish people here would stop spreading negative rumors from secondhand info about any shops!

Well that is good to hear. And I TOTALLY AGREE with THAT statement. They were the most snootiest of the shops around Riverside a few years ago right after they first opened. My friend and I were like, hey let's check them out. Then we saw that they picked up one or two of the guys from Centerfire one of the guys was the guy who had hard-ons for talking about breeding fighting pitts. Yeah I said it, he even had the decals on his truck. But let's leave his personal life out of it... He is also a pushy sales guy, tried to push about $30+ worth of accessories onto my friend when he bought his contender from Centerfire. Just picked up some things and added them to the pile. They were not purchased of course, but we did not care for that kind of aggressive salemanship. I don't care who the hell you THINK you are, you do not toss **** into MY pile of stuff because you SAY I need it. But good for him for being a salesman, he belongs at an H1 dealership...

THEN there was the transition to W1. We went in there and recognized him off the bat. Turners had a PTR-91 for $1299 but they had it for $1359 and said that was the best price around. So I went to Bright Spot Pawn off the 60 about 10 minutes away and got one for $1189. I asked about their Remington 887 and they kinda blew me off, kinda hesitant to show it to me and really just expected me to know everything about it and KNOW more than I cared to know about other guns I did not care much about, I saw a lot of magpul crap and expensive ladder covers and overall in general their accessories were pricey and cost more than any of the other stores. Most people might jack up retail prices about 35%-45%
but they seemed pretty good in the $40%-50% range. We asked if the one guy was from Centerfire and he said yeah but he left them (or did they fire him- if so it could have been because of his aggressiveness and not matching their corporate culture (lol!)) But then they all started talking **** on Centerfire and saying what a ****ty store it was and all. Yeah we got that, irritated because they were dumped from a gun store and now they worked at a new gun store so they were just gonna talk **** on everyone else... And let me point out that just because you have the highest prices does NOT mean your **** is exotic... Especially if your inventory is similar to another store, but you are just more higher priced than them by 20% or more...

While working at the OTHER gunstore I took in a lot of complaints. Yeah I was the computer guy, but I sold guns and helped out customers and talked with a lot of folks- especially while doing inventory on the floor and asking folks if they needed any help in locating something (NEVER heard of that happening at W1) 75% of the complaints and comments I heard from customers were that those guys were arrogant dicks. The other 25% said that they had no interest in their guns so they were bringing them to us. While I might agree blindly with the first 75% of people, the other 25% were offbase in their complaints. W1 is NOT a typical gun store, they are a BLACK RIFLE EXCLUSIVE store. If a model comes with wood furniture, they will not carry that entire brand... I think they are allergic to wood! They deal with plastic and metal PERIOD and they certainly have no interest in buying old beat to hell crap from old farts that think their **** is worth 6x that of the blue book value... Folks need to learn that SENTIMENTAL has NO VALUE in buying and selling guns to strangers.
They are not any THREAT to my former store. For the record, Cold War Shooters was similar in nature, off the 30 freeway near/in highland. I bought a $700.xx AK rifle from them. Yeah I overpaid, but they were cool and showed me other firearms they had. I do not think they lasted, but they were cool. Oh and I am adding that I bet W1 works on commission. THAT would explain a lot because at my former store, we did not have commission. But, The owner was still pushing us to sell. He told me several times that my job is to sell the gun, not give my opinion even if they ask, keep it short and sweet. Nobody cares about what I think; they just want to feel good about their gun purchase.

I will give W1 this though, the OTHER things we heard about them were mainly from the police. The police would be in to our gun store all the time talking about W1 and how they have just gotten hit again and this is the MO and all. I applaud those guys for still having the balls to stick it out where they are, 172 yards from the freeway with a straight shot if you blow through the two lights... They got balls to sit there and be a target of opportunity for all the bangers from MO VAL who think they can come to Riverside and try to knock over OUR local gun stores. Glad nobody got hurt (that I know of) and glad they stuck it out, but their store was a weird setup as well. I guess they thought being setup across from a cop uniform store would make them safer. Meanwhile, our store has a guy manning the turrets all day every day. That is all that he does mainly.

Centerfire is a joke. They are NOT competition to my former gun store. They have a defeatist attitude and I walked in and asked for mags for a G-42, a 22/45 Lite and a P320 and they said those were all illegal in CA. I almost corrected them but I figured it was their store, ****-em, who cares... A cripple can get jammed up trying to come into their store in a wheelchair and give them an OSHA violation. They downsized and moved across the post office into a space about 1/2 of the size and they continue to sell only safe and sane firewor- I mean guns that are ONLY on the current roster and magazines and accessories to fit those guns- AND they are snooty and high priced as well. I told them that was too bad they did not have those mags I was looking for. I told them I was really trying to give them my money but they had nothing I cared for, then I bought a magpul 10rnd mag Gen3 for $18.99 and was happy, well, not really, but I have another magpul mag...
They are NOT any threat to my former store.

My former store was not perfect. I got yelled at NUMEROUS times from the owner for talking to people about SSEs. He did not like them and there IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO LEGALLY MAKE YOUR OWN PISTOL IN CA! The owner did not trust me; well, I do not think he really trusted me as much as he should have. Of course, I expected that since I was hired to do mainly one job that he would have had a bit more faith in me and not try to micromanage me right after he told me he knew nothing about computers and to just get it done. Although he is a smart guy and a cunning guy and he knows his firearms and has a lot of experience in this field, his arrogance and close-mindedness will hold him back. He put his faith in his webmaster more than me and I was the one who got it done in the end. When they laid me off I had no worries since I at least got them on their POS and made a few friends along the way. I still go in there to buy stuff, and they do not really care much for W1 as well, but they will refer customers to that place (I never did though) when they are looking for EBRs that we did not carry. Especially anyone looking for AK platforms.

Now that I know what I know I am curious, do they still have that one guy that likes to breed fighting pitbulls? Have they changed their attitude or are they still dicks to people that they think they are superior to because they do not know the exact ****ing model of rifle on the wall? There aint any rumors being started about them, I assure you I saw firsthand how they were arrogant and if they could not smell the money they had no interest in your business. I would be willing to walk in again and give them another chance, but really, I would expect to see nothing but blue presses being sold there right next to their miniguns and Veprs... If they can get me a Tavor without spending a ridiculous amount over or allow me to transfer one in then I will go for it, especially if they have a 90 day or so layaway plan.

W1 donates things? Wow. but I gotta ask now is that due to damage control or trying to make up for past customer relations? But no seriously, I would be willing and now that you stood up for them I WILL go into their store and give them some of my money, IF things are different.

Another thing that does not help them is that they have this huge gray truck with their logo and all on it parked out in front of their store (maybe another vehicle too?) but that truck has DOUCHE all over it. There is something about it, Maybe it is just the lift kit, I dunno, but I do not care for people that have vehicles like that on the freeway, they drive they they are douches... So whenever I see that truck I start thinking negativity. But I will turn all of that off this next week and give them a shot at redeeming themselves.

I have only been in their store ONCE and I never cared to go back and I was wishing that they would lose my phone number too, but they must have because they never called me about that Remington 887 Nitro...

And THAT is where I am coming from. Quote me all you want, no rumors here, it is all truth. Folks know that I do not jump on the bandwagon all that easily. I was the only one to stand up for J&M guns in Riverside when someone talked trash on them because the guy talked about taking a bandsaw to their ar because of the aramic written on it that said INFIDEL...

RISR might be a FANTASTIC shooting range, and if so then GREAT! Of course it can't be that fantastic since it is inside and they prolly do not let me bring my ak or ar pistol there to shoot. Neither will magnum range though. Sorry, please excuse my engish. I am not that good sometimes with my ESL... Fostering relationships with gun stores and ranges can be beneficial and as long as they are willing to play along then that is great and I applaud that effort. I meant no disrespect to RISR unless of course they are teamed up with W1 and W1 is still W1, old school pushy mofos that just want the money. I should hope not because I hate to talk **** on any gun store, but some bring it and I will NOT sugarcoat or be PC about calling a spade a spade.

[XDmax]

Im in for an IE class. Already signed up for the Anaheim class

[gadsden1775]

Is the reloading workshop going to happen?

[stilly]

Originally Posted by Darryl Licht

There are some rumors here regarding both W1 and RISR. They are affiliated, yes. We had about 6-8 of our CGSSA monthly shoots at RISR and I found it to be a very nice facility. I have been a customer of both and never have I had a bad experience at either.

RISR has a large facility with lots of space to hold a class such as this, and they are receptive to the idea. I have spoken with Tom and other employees regarding such a class expressing my interests.

W1 has donated items for giveaways at our monthly shoots and also for the recent SSZS. I find the owners Mike and Norris to be standup guys who care about their business, their customers, and their reputation!

W1 isn't a typical one stop gun shop, they are more of a specialty gun shop and they tend to carry more exotic (read expensive) items than other local shops.

Stilly I know where you used to work and I frequent that shop the most as it is my neighborhood shop, but I also like W1 for what they are. I wish people here would stop spreading negative rumors from secondhand info about any shops!

I am starting a new thread in a final response to this... AND a change in heart.

[stilly]

And if anyone is coming out to the IE workshop if it ever happens again, if you have a Harvey Deprimer or that cool frankford arsenal deprimer then please bring it. I would like to have a closer look at those items.

[geoint]

Originally Posted by stilly

Well that is good to hear. And I TOTALLY AGREE with THAT statement. They were the most snootiest of the shops around Riverside a few years ago right after they first opened. My friend and I were like, hey let's check them out. Then we saw that they picked up one or two of the guys from Centerfire one of the guys was the guy who had hard-ons for talking about breeding fighting pitts. Yeah I said it, he even had the decals on his truck. But let's leave his personal life out of it... He is also a pushy sales guy, tried to push about $30+ worth of accessories onto my friend when he bought his contender from Centerfire. Just picked up some things and added them to the pile. They were not purchased of course, but we did not care for that kind of aggressive salemanship. I don't care who the hell you THINK you are, you do not toss **** into MY pile of stuff because you SAY I need it. But good for him for being a salesman, he belongs at an H1 dealership...

THEN there was the transition to W1. We went in there and recognized him off the bat. Turners had a PTR-91 for $1299 but they had it for $1359 and said that was the best price around. So I went to Bright Spot Pawn off the 60 about 10 minutes away and got one for $1189. I asked about their Remington 887 and they kinda blew me off, kinda hesitant to show it to me and really just expected me to know everything about it and KNOW more than I cared to know about other guns I did not care much about, I saw a lot of magpul crap and expensive ladder covers and overall in general their accessories were pricey and cost more than any of the other stores. Most people might jack up retail prices about 35%-45%
but they seemed pretty good in the $40%-50% range. We asked if the one guy was from Centerfire and he said yeah but he left them (or did they fire him- if so it could have been because of his aggressiveness and not matching their corporate culture (lol!)) But then they all started talking **** on Centerfire and saying what a ****ty store it was and all. Yeah we got that, irritated because they were dumped from a gun store and now they worked at a new gun store so they were just gonna talk **** on everyone else... And let me point out that just because you have the highest prices does NOT mean your **** is exotic... Especially if your inventory is similar to another store, but you are just more higher priced than them by 20% or more...

While working at the OTHER gunstore I took in a lot of complaints. Yeah I was the computer guy, but I sold guns and helped out customers and talked with a lot of folks- especially while doing inventory on the floor and asking folks if they needed any help in locating something (NEVER heard of that happening at W1) 75% of the complaints and comments I heard from customers were that those guys were arrogant dicks. The other 25% said that they had no interest in their guns so they were bringing them to us. While I might agree blindly with the first 75% of people, the other 25% were offbase in their complaints. W1 is NOT a typical gun store, they are a BLACK RIFLE EXCLUSIVE store. If a model comes with wood furniture, they will not carry that entire brand... I think they are allergic to wood! They deal with plastic and metal PERIOD and they certainly have no interest in buying old beat to hell crap from old farts that think their **** is worth 6x that of the blue book value... Folks need to learn that SENTIMENTAL has NO VALUE in buying and selling guns to strangers.
They are not any THREAT to my former store. For the record, Cold War Shooters was similar in nature, off the 30 freeway near/in highland. I bought a $700.xx AK rifle from them. Yeah I overpaid, but they were cool and showed me other firearms they had. I do not think they lasted, but they were cool. Oh and I am adding that I bet W1 works on commission. THAT would explain a lot because at my former store, we did not have commission. But, The owner was still pushing us to sell. He told me several times that my job is to sell the gun, not give my opinion even if they ask, keep it short and sweet. Nobody cares about what I think; they just want to feel good about their gun purchase.

I will give W1 this though, the OTHER things we heard about them were mainly from the police. The police would be in to our gun store all the time talking about W1 and how they have just gotten hit again and this is the MO and all. I applaud those guys for still having the balls to stick it out where they are, 172 yards from the freeway with a straight shot if you blow through the two lights... They got balls to sit there and be a target of opportunity for all the bangers from MO VAL who think they can come to Riverside and try to knock over OUR local gun stores. Glad nobody got hurt (that I know of) and glad they stuck it out, but their store was a weird setup as well. I guess they thought being setup across from a cop uniform store would make them safer. Meanwhile, our store has a guy manning the turrets all day every day. That is all that he does mainly.

Centerfire is a joke. They are NOT competition to my former gun store. They have a defeatist attitude and I walked in and asked for mags for a G-42, a 22/45 Lite and a P320 and they said those were all illegal in CA. I almost corrected them but I figured it was their store, ****-em, who cares... A cripple can get jammed up trying to come into their store in a wheelchair and give them an OSHA violation. They downsized and moved across the post office into a space about 1/2 of the size and they continue to sell only safe and sane firewor- I mean guns that are ONLY on the current roster and magazines and accessories to fit those guns- AND they are snooty and high priced as well. I told them that was too bad they did not have those mags I was looking for. I told them I was really trying to give them my money but they had nothing I cared for, then I bought a magpul 10rnd mag Gen3 for $18.99 and was happy, well, not really, but I have another magpul mag...
They are NOT any threat to my former store.

My former store was not perfect. I got yelled at NUMEROUS times from the owner for talking to people about SSEs. He did not like them and there IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO LEGALLY MAKE YOUR OWN PISTOL IN CA! The owner did not trust me; well, I do not think he really trusted me as much as he should have. Of course, I expected that since I was hired to do mainly one job that he would have had a bit more faith in me and not try to micromanage me right after he told me he knew nothing about computers and to just get it done. Although he is a smart guy and a cunning guy and he knows his firearms and has a lot of experience in this field, his arrogance and close-mindedness will hold him back. He put his faith in his webmaster more than me and I was the one who got it done in the end. When they laid me off I had no worries since I at least got them on their POS and made a few friends along the way. I still go in there to buy stuff, and they do not really care much for W1 as well, but they will refer customers to that place (I never did though) when they are looking for EBRs that we did not carry. Especially anyone looking for AK platforms.

Now that I know what I know I am curious, do they still have that one guy that likes to breed fighting pitbulls? Have they changed their attitude or are they still dicks to people that they think they are superior to because they do not know the exact ****ing model of rifle on the wall? There aint any rumors being started about them, I assure you I saw firsthand how they were arrogant and if they could not smell the money they had no interest in your business. I would be willing to walk in again and give them another chance, but really, I would expect to see nothing but blue presses being sold there right next to their miniguns and Veprs... If they can get me a Tavor without spending a ridiculous amount over or allow me to transfer one in then I will go for it, especially if they have a 90 day or so layaway plan.

W1 donates things? Wow. but I gotta ask now is that due to damage control or trying to make up for past customer relations? But no seriously, I would be willing and now that you stood up for them I WILL go into their store and give them some of my money, IF things are different.

Another thing that does not help them is that they have this huge gray truck with their logo and all on it parked out in front of their store (maybe another vehicle too?) but that truck has DOUCHE all over it. There is something about it, Maybe it is just the lift kit, I dunno, but I do not care for people that have vehicles like that on the freeway, they drive they they are douches... So whenever I see that truck I start thinking negativity. But I will turn all of that off this next week and give them a shot at redeeming themselves.

I have only been in their store ONCE and I never cared to go back and I was wishing that they would lose my phone number too, but they must have because they never called me about that Remington 887 Nitro...

And THAT is where I am coming from. Quote me all you want, no rumors here, it is all truth. Folks know that I do not jump on the bandwagon all that easily. I was the only one to stand up for J&M guns in Riverside when someone talked trash on them because the guy talked about taking a bandsaw to their ar because of the aramic written on it that said INFIDEL...

RISR might be a FANTASTIC shooting range, and if so then GREAT! Of course it can't be that fantastic since it is inside and they prolly do not let me bring my ak or ar pistol there to shoot. Neither will magnum range though. Sorry, please excuse my engish. I am not that good sometimes with my ESL... Fostering relationships with gun stores and ranges can be beneficial and as long as they are willing to play along then that is great and I applaud that effort. I meant no disrespect to RISR unless of course they are teamed up with W1 and W1 is still W1, old school pushy mofos that just want the money. I should hope not because I hate to talk **** on any gun store, but some bring it and I will NOT sugarcoat or be PC about calling a spade a spade.

Wow. I agree with you about W1, Centerfire and RISR. W1 was crazy overpriced and overly tacti-cool, Centerfire had nothing interesting and was also way overpriced and this is just personal preference but I hate indoor ranges.

The day I finally checked out Centerfire I bought a few items just to show support for a LGS and cuz the guy behind the counter was pretty friendly and helpful (showed me how to fieldstrip a Garand) but I then drove over to Bullseye and found every single item I had gotten at Centerfire for significantly less. And its not like the customer service at Bullseye is lacking, those guys are all fantastic.

Long story short, Bullseye is the only LGS Ill be wasting my time with in Riverside (city) from here on out.

I live right on the border of Perris and Menifee though so I do most of my shopping in Temecula or Hemet and the only good LGS in this area is West Coast Ammo. Very reloader friendly, great prices and all the staff are very willing to talk to you and explain things. They had Glock 21s a few weeks ago for $499!

And for online purchases, Pennington Firearms in Wildomar can't be beat with their transfer fees

Ive found Faith Armory and The Shootist to be overpriced and was just not impressed with Counter Strike Firearms in Hemet. Nice guy but I wasn't really impressed with his business model, and he mentioned he is moving to a brick and mortar soon which Im sure means his prices will change to reflect that. No thanks

[nubrun]

Did a date for this ever get set? I have a lot of people PM'ing me about a date and would be happy to assist.

[Darryl Licht]

Over a year now... will this workshop ever take place????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????

[nubrun]

I've been off line for a while, and reading back through the thread, I don't see what the hang-up is (I am not knocking on anyone, just trying to figure out the obstacles to get over). I know people have limited time, so is it finding a half day to devote to the class, a location, etc...???

-Nick

[Darryl Licht]

nu:

There's no shortage of people who want to attend, its scheduling and location AFAIK.

[BigBronco]

There was a post about a month or so about setting up a work shop. That post drew one interested student. To make for a successful class we need 7 - 10 students. Not complaining but there is over 6 - 8 hours of prep the week before the class and then the full day away form my one day off with my wife. Just not going to dedicate that much time for a very small group. January in OC we had a clinic with only 6 students. We actually had 7 instructors. It was a good day however the class actually ran in the red.

Show some interested people and set a Sunday date. We can make it happen. For example this Sunday I will be participating in a Ventura chapter class. I think there is over 12 students.

Once again. Lets do it.

[deadsled65]

Im in, just set a date.

[stilly]

I am down to help assist with it

I also think that Poor Richard might want to come too.

[PoorRichRichard]

I'm interested. Been wanting to learn to reload for pistol for quite some time. And I'd be happy to bring one of my single-stage Mec shotshell reloaders and do a quick demo.

[BigMak911]

I'd be in depending on cost and timing.

[soobieajax325]

Is there ever gonna be a workshop for this? I would attend if it were to happen

[Darryl Licht]

I'm still very interested and would even drive to OC for this, as I just want to learn how and soon!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigBronco]

I am on the planning stage for a special class the first Sunday of October. 100% of the tuition feed will be donated to a Calgunner in need.

[Darryl Licht]

Originally Posted by BigBronco

I am on the planning stage for a special class the first Sunday of October. 100% of the tuition feed will be donated to a Calgunner in need.

Sounds like my kind of class; I'm a "special" guy, so a "special class" should be perfect! LOL!

Where is a tentative location BB?

[BigBronco]

About two blocks west of the Los Angeles County line off Imperial Highway.

[Darryl Licht]

A few questions:

• What's the fee?
  
• I have plenty of clean 9mm brass I can bring? ...and I have 500 primers and 500 projectiles for 9mm.
  
• Should I bring my Dillon, so I can get the dies set up?

[Darryl Licht]

Originally Posted by BigBronco

About two blocks west of the Los Angeles County line off Imperial Highway.

BigBronco:

Any news???

[CSACANNONEER]

I just received a PM from a member who has recently moved to San Bernardo and is offering her garage as a possible place for a clinic or two. If anyone wants to help plan and organize one, I can put you in touch with her.

[matthewbrian316]

any reloading class in IE?

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[SoCal Gunner]

Originally Posted by matthewbrian316

any reloading class in IE?

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Paging Stilly, BigBronco, et.al.

[BigBronco]

The big problem here is that the ATF and new California regulations have effectively banned the way we teach reloading. We are trying to figure things out on just how to move foreword.

Basically the ATF is saying if we charge any kind of fee for the course and allow students to take home the ammo they load in the class we are guy of manufacturing ammo without a FFL 06 licence.
I have personally been in contact with them and the NRA. No resolution to this issue as of yet.

[stilly]

But you know, Nubrun had a simple solution before all of this even started up. Just a bunch of folks meeting up at a disclosed location to learn how and everyone chipping in for lunch...

Hey this is commiefornia, home of finding loopholes...

So what if we found a way for folks to purchase a lb of powder, a 100 pack of primers, shells and some projectiles and then show up to a class ready to buy a very nice lunch?

Hey can we help it if we show them the way to make their ammo and they use THEIR components?

Yeah things change a bit, so let's get dynamic... The ENTRY fees have changed.

Hey wait a second. What if I put those plastic paint tubes to work and sold a tube with xx grains of powder inside- Or better yet, sold a KIT that included a tube of powder, 100 shells, 100 primers, 100 projectiles and a snazzy carrying case, all on the day of the class AND folks magically learned how to make ammo with those kits? Their OWN kits? All money can be paid to me since I will be ordering lunch AND allowing use of my property, essentially renting it out for a day. And in the end I will get to ask stupid questions and disrupt the class with thinking points (like I do to each thread...)

Except it can not be me currently due to my work schedule, hmm, well, maybe it can, bah, if there are others, let them do it.

OR, what if we were able to get manufacturers or a manufacturer to package up some powder in sealed cigar type tubes certifying that it was a certain powder and ONLY those tubes, SEALED could be used in the reloading class?

Things to think about. If it is NOT in direct violation of the law, then it is not illegal.

[SoCal Gunner]

Originally Posted by BigBronco

The big problem here is that the ATF and new California regulations have effectively banned the way we teach reloading. We are trying to figure things out on just how to move foreword.

Basically the ATF is saying if we charge any kind of fee for the course and allow students to take home the ammo they load in the class we are guy of manufacturing ammo without a FFL 06 licence.
I have personally been in contact with them and the NRA. No resolution to this issue as of yet.

That's sad... they just keep chipping away.

[DRL247]

Hi guys. Any ideas on when a local class will be starting?

[SoCal Gunner]

Originally Posted by DRL247

Hi guys. Any ideas on when a local class will be starting?

Look up

[Darryl Licht]

Originally Posted by BigBronco

The big problem here is that the ATF and new California regulations have effectively banned the way we teach reloading. We are trying to figure things out on just how to move foreword.

Basically the ATF is saying if we charge any kind of fee for the course and allow students to take home the ammo they load in the class we are guy of manufacturing ammo without a FFL 06 licence.
I have personally been in contact with them and the NRA. No resolution to this issue as of yet.

Originally Posted by stilly

But you know, Nubrun had a simple solution before all of this even started up. Just a bunch of folks meeting up at a disclosed location to learn how and everyone chipping in for lunch...

Hey this is commiefornia, home of finding loopholes...

So what if we found a way for folks to purchase a lb of powder, a 100 pack of primers, shells and some projectiles and then show up to a class ready to buy a very nice lunch?

Hey can we help it if we show them the way to make their ammo and they use THEIR components?

Yeah things change a bit, so let's get dynamic... The ENTRY fees have changed.

Hey wait a second. What if I put those plastic paint tubes to work and sold a tube with xx grains of powder inside- Or better yet, sold a KIT that included a tube of powder, 100 shells, 100 primers, 100 projectiles and a snazzy carrying case, all on the day of the class AND folks magically learned how to make ammo with those kits? Their OWN kits? All money can be paid to me since I will be ordering lunch AND allowing use of my property, essentially renting it out for a day. And in the end I will get to ask stupid questions and disrupt the class with thinking points (like I do to each thread...)

Except it can not be me currently due to my work schedule, hmm, well, maybe it can, bah, if there are others, let them do it.

OR, what if we were able to get manufacturers or a manufacturer to package up some powder in sealed cigar type tubes certifying that it was a certain powder and ONLY those tubes, SEALED could be used in the reloading class?

Things to think about. If it is NOT in direct violation of the law, then it is not illegal.

Wow... another fine mess that we have in Kaliforniastan thanks to the anti gun laws and idiot populace!

*** Surely there is a way a few good friends can get together and teach each other new reloading techniques *** There are ALWAYS ways to circumnavigate such silly laws and regulations.

FYI there is an FFL in Temecula that holds reloading classes on a regular basis!

[stilly]

The REALLY nice thing about what Bronco was doing is that it did more than just show you pictures. You got to actually USE the equipment to make your stuff. Since there was different types of equipment around, you kinda got to try different things or see how they worked in comparison to others when reloading.

[Darryl Licht]

Originally Posted by stilly

The REALLY nice thing about what Bronco was doing is that it did more than just show you pictures. You got to actually USE the equipment to make your stuff. Since there was different types of equipment around, you kinda got to try different things or see how they worked in comparison to others when reloading.

I've been in contact with BB regarding an IE class for a few years. If my memory serves me, much of this had to do with CGN politics and liability issues.

Pictures are no good for a first time reloader... IMO! I want HANDS ON!!!

[BigBronco]

What we can do is load dummy rounds. Then pull apart.


2 Load live rounds then disassemble them.

[stilly]

Originally Posted by BigBronco

What we can do is load dummy rounds. Then pull apart.


2 Load live rounds then disassemble them.

There ya go!

Boy I am glad I thought of that...

Hey, we can use FAKE powder instead. Just use SAND or LEAD SHOT to mimic the powder or cream of wheat or whatever. Then folks can still play with the scales, they can still use the trickler and see how things work and it is just an inert material...

PLUS the ATF will have to find a really good reason to enter the property this time and shoot all the caged dogs and those 4 cats...


Just remember to NOT crimp and you can reuse components...

Of course, it is still fun to build working ammo that you can shoot, but this also cuts down liability in making ammo. Now we can also open it up to 80 people at once instead of the 12 we were doing... :D

[HKmongoose]

I'm interested in getting into reloading myself.

[nubrun]

Wow I didn't even know this thread was still going. A lot has definitely changed in the last year. So dumb question, what exactly requires you to have an 06, supplying components for the students, or the students using your equipment?


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[PoorRichRichard]

Tag

[stilly]

Originally Posted by nubrun

Wow I didn't even know this thread was still going. A lot has definitely changed in the last year. So dumb question, what exactly requires you to have an 06, supplying components for the students, or the students using your equipment?


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My answer is the same as a punchline to a joke I like to tell.

What do you get if you cross an elephant and a rhino?

F**K if I know...



ATF never talked to me so as long as Bronco wears a good disguise and comes over, it is all good.