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  #1  
Old 02-04-2019, 8:59 PM
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Default You guys are going to tell me to take them apart

I F’d up. Reloaded 500 .45Colt with too much powder. I thought I was loading 200gr bullets but I picked up a box of 250gr. Max for 250gr bullets of Trail Boss is 5.8gr and I was set for 200gr at 5.9gr. So my powder drop was dropping 5.9 +/- .1.

I only had one box of 250gr bullets my other 11 boxes are 200gr. I didn’t even know i had a box of 250’s.

Tempted to shoot them in my Vaquero (new vaquero not the original) but I really think I have to take them apart

Mike


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Old 02-04-2019, 9:08 PM
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You are probably too short on c.o.a.l. if you ran the 250gr with the same seater setting.

Its not worth risking the use of your hand and fingers.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:09 PM
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Had not even thought of COAL but yes that was set for 200gr also. Hammering away I am going to be sore


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Old 02-04-2019, 9:12 PM
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For some reason or another, your situation reminds of the well known Clint Eastwood and perp scene(s)...goes something like...Well, do feel lucky....or/and the scene when the perp says, I've to to knows...
Anyways, it's up to you OP.
I say trust your instincts and take it apart. The cost may exceed the reward.
Let us know.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:19 PM
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Good justification for picking up a pulling die... hammer is good for onesies/twosies, but get a real puller while you have a reason.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:22 PM
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Your max load is still over 1,000 PSI under the other powders listed. The NM Vaquero should eat them fine. SAAMI max specs are tailored to protect the Colt SAA from over pressure so I think you're good. The seating specs are only .005" different, so that's not an issue.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:24 PM
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I wouldnt bat an eye on shooting them, but that is me.

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Old 02-04-2019, 9:30 PM
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On the Hogdon website, 5.8 gr of trailboss and a 250 gr lead bullet @1.600 OAL produces 12,700 psi. 5.9 to 6.0 gr of tb will produce a little more pressure but well within the capabilities of a new model vaq. I run 19000 psi rounds with a 255 gr lead bullet as my "standard" in a new model vaq. No issues.

If it were me I'd shoot 'em. YMMV
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:31 PM
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I would shoot them too, or better yet, use them as an excuse to pick up a ‘92 lever action in 45LC. You’d have to work darn hard to load something too hot for that action.


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Old 02-04-2019, 9:36 PM
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0.1 grain. Meh.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
I would shoot them too, or better yet, use them as an excuse to pick up a ‘92 lever action in 45LC. You’d have to work darn hard to load something too hot for that action.
Now that is a awesome idea...I just happen to have a Henry lever in .45LC, it should easily handle that load. Its not a 92 but I think I read once that the Henry is capable of handling the Ruger only loads and this is well below that.

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Originally Posted by the_tunaman View Post
Good justification for picking up a pulling die... hammer is good for onesies/twosies, but get a real puller while you have a reason.
I already hammered apart a few and was thinking there has to be a better way, going to looking into a pulling die, never needed one before so never looked into that.

But I need to check if the Henry can handle it and I can mark them for the Henry if it can and be done with this problem.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:44 PM
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0.1 grain. Meh.
my powder measure drops +/- .1 so the books say 5.8 is max and my powder drop will have dropped 5.8 to 6.0 so lets say on average 33% of them will be 0.2 over max, some will be right at max and some only .1. I have never made this mistake so I am not sure the safety factor. As I said in my post above, I am going to look into marking them for my Henry if it can handle it which I seem to recall it can (that may be wishful thinking, but I think it can). If not, because of the ones that will 0.2 over, I will be taking them all apart or marking them for my New Vaq. only and I prefer to take them apart then make a mistake and put some in my real Colt.
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Old 02-04-2019, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
I already hammered apart a few and was thinking there has to be a better way, going to looking into a pulling die, never needed one before so never looked into that.
If you can use them, that is good. I myself always look for an excuse um, er, justification for purchases

My buddy has one and I got to try it out for a batch of old reloads that he had, and it sure made the job simple and quick.
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Old 02-05-2019, 6:10 AM
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.....

Last edited by sghart; 02-05-2019 at 6:27 PM..
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Old 02-05-2019, 9:45 AM
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Well Henry says I can shoot +P loads, but there is no SAMMI spec for 45LC +P, I asked if that meant Ruger only loads and was told I can shoot any manufactured 45LC ammo, so I also bought a bullet puller die, I will pull 200 or 300 and reload them correctly and save the other 200 for the Henry. Kind of a ***** to pull that many, I might melt down the 250s just so I don't make that mistake again or keep them for the Henry. I also bought 500 more brass from Starline this morning, I'll be good to go again soon.

I did mark them with a red sharpie, I may try some in the Vaquero after I see how they shoot in the Henry, but I won't shoot them in my 2nd. gen or 3rd gen Colt.
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Old 02-05-2019, 3:12 PM
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Like talking to a wall, why did we bother?
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Old 02-05-2019, 4:24 PM
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No one is telling you to pull them but you're telling yourself to do it. Why bother asking if you've already made up your mind?
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2019, 4:32 PM
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ok, ok, I will shoot them. Trust me, I would rather shot them than take them apart.

If the responses had been 100% shoot them, I would not have doubted it and done it, but there were responses that said "better safe then sorry" so I thought I came up with a good solution, use some in the Henry rifle and take apart some but ok, I will shoot them in the Vaquero, not in my Colt's. If I still have fingers when done shooting, I will report how well it went.
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Old 02-05-2019, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
I would shoot them too, or better yet, use them as an excuse to pick up a ‘92 lever action in 45LC. You’d have to work darn hard to load something too hot for that action.


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Old 02-05-2019, 5:47 PM
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Mike, its a Ruger and it will be fine.
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Old 02-06-2019, 4:39 PM
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^^^ This.

6 gr of trailboss won't grenade your vaquero or your henry, and your fingers won't be in jeopardy either. You may; however, be pleasantly surprised by the performance of that load in both guns.

Looking forward to your range report.
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Old 02-06-2019, 4:51 PM
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I will find out this weekend, but in the meantime based on suggestions

A 92 Takedown may join the family, if I can find one. I would prefer a wood stock then the Alaskan rubberized stock, but I have been reading about them and yup, I think I NEED one.
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Old 02-06-2019, 5:02 PM
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Henrys are tubular mag loaders-so not appealing to me.

Winchesters are top ejecting, so can't mount a scope. Again, not appealing.

Marlins? Best of both worlds in lever guns. Got an 1894 cowboy carbine in .45 colt, mounted a 4x scope on it. Lever gun heaven with "tier 2" colt loads😆😆
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Old 02-06-2019, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
Henrys are tubular mag loaders-so not appealing to me.

Winchesters are top ejecting, so can't mount a scope. Again, not appealing.

Marlins? Best of both worlds in lever guns. Got an 1894 cowboy carbine in .45 colt, mounted a 4x scope on it. Lever gun heaven with "tier 2" colt loads😆😆

+1....
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Old 02-06-2019, 9:42 PM
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Win 94AE is an angle eject, you can run a scope on top. I prefer older Marlins.
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Old 02-07-2019, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
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I wouldnt bat an eye on shooting them, but that is me.

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Old 02-14-2019, 4:58 PM
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Send them to me...i'd shoot it and give u a review. Its trail boss...fast powder but many are loading them compressed.

I would not hesitate

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Old 02-15-2019, 7:55 AM
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Mikey, you probably realized by now that had you loaded any other powder, we'd all be telling you to take them apart.

You got lucky with your powder choice there.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:48 AM
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I would shoot them as well. But here is what I would do. I'd pull about 10 of them. Take out a grain or two and progressively load back up to the full load. test by firing them and see what happens as the charge is increased. You may find that your pistol handles the load well.

Or just load progressively load back up to the full load to see if that charge is a problem with your gun.
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Old 02-15-2019, 5:05 PM
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^^^ Balogney! First; He's only 0.1 or 0.2 gr over max. So knocking off a full grain puts him well below minimum. Second; IT'S TRAILBOSS! And as I stated earlier, 0.1 or 0.2 gr will NOT produce more than 2 or 3 hundred psi above SAAMI spec for .45 colt. Well within the capability of the ruger vaquero and the henry.
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Old 02-19-2019, 1:56 PM
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So OP here...
Rain finally let up and I went shooting. I fired about a 100 rounds in the Henry with no issues, recoil didnt feel any different than a properly loaded round. I finally put some in the Ruger NM Vaquero and again, recoil didn't feel any different and gun didnt go boom in my hand. About the only thing I noticed is that at 25 yards, it shot closer to point of aim, so this might actually be a better load. No signs of pressure on any of the rounds.

It was also suggested earlier in this thread that I buy a 92 DONE !!! but its not here yet.

Ok, so I shot em !!!
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:52 PM
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When your ‘92 arrives, do some research online about shortened .454 Casull brass and Reloader 7 in a .45lc ‘92 clone. It’s pretty shocking what that round and rifle is capable of. Just be 100% sure never to throw one in a revolver.


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Old 02-24-2019, 9:21 AM
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^^^What is the purpose of a shortened .454C case in a .45colt chamber-thicker case wall or something else?
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Old 02-24-2019, 9:51 AM
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^^^What is the purpose of a shortened .454C case in a .45colt chamber-thicker case wall or something else?
I gotta wonder too. I've (and 1000's of others) loaded Ruger and Marlin loads in Starline 45 Colt brass with no issues. Maybe if pushing Ruger #1 or Contender pressures, but I wouldn't put those through a '92 other than perhaps the Rossie rated for Casull, but then why bother shortening.
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Old 02-24-2019, 9:56 AM
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^^^I use starline as well-no isses.

And a follow up question-why .454C cases and not .460 mag cases?

I've cut these down to full OAL length of .45colt and made "magnum" shotshell loads for .45colt guns.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
So OP here...

Rain finally let up and I went shooting. I fired about a 100 rounds in the Henry with no issues, recoil didnt feel any different than a properly loaded round. I finally put some in the Ruger NM Vaquero and again, recoil didn't feel any different and gun didnt go boom in my hand. About the only thing I noticed is that at 25 yards, it shot closer to point of aim, so this might actually be a better load. No signs of pressure on any of the rounds.



It was also suggested earlier in this thread that I buy a 92 DONE !!! but its not here yet.



Ok, so I shot em !!!


As you have learned from this experience, reloading data is compiled by engineers and edited by lawyers. The other is to pay attention to what you are doing. One powder on the bench at a time. One bullet weight/type. One primer type.


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Old 02-24-2019, 12:34 PM
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In a Ruger not a problem. Even if you blow it up send it back and they'll fix it free. I got a Super Blackhawk in a trade with split cylinder sent it and and it came back like new. They even sent me a label to return it.
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Old 02-24-2019, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
^^^I use starline as well-no isses.

And a follow up question-why .454C cases and not .460 mag cases?

I've cut these down to full OAL length of .45colt and made "magnum" shotshell loads for .45colt guns.
I have a box of 460 for the same purpose. Just haven't gotten around to it. That and my plan is 45 cal Circle Fly cards over powder and 44 cal gas checks over shot. Haven't purchased either.

What's your recipe?
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Old 02-24-2019, 1:36 PM
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I F’d up. Reloaded 500 .45Colt with too much powder. I thought I was loading 200gr bullets but I picked up a box of 250gr. Max for 250gr bullets of Trail Boss is 5.8gr and I was set for 200gr at 5.9gr. So my powder drop was dropping 5.9 +/- .1.

I only had one box of 250gr bullets my other 11 boxes are 200gr. I didn’t even know i had a box of 250’s.

Tempted to shoot them in my Vaquero (new vaquero not the original) but I really think I have to take them apart

Mike


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Have you read this?


As noted in the powder description section, Trail Boss was designed primarily for reduced loads using lead bullets in pistol
cartridges. However, Trail Boss offers superb versatility in rifle cartridges producing reduced loads using lead or jacketed bullets.
These reduced loads make firing such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum or even the 458 Winchester Magnum pure fun!
Listed below we show a few examples of such loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you
don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to
follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:
Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at
this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your
maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!
Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting
load.
Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate
reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!
This link goes directly to a pdf file download

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/relo...w-recoil-loads

If you follow the directions you'll find out that you are probably safe with that load.


I've done this with a Winchester 94 in .32 Win spl. It a fun rifle to shot that's light on recoil
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Old 02-24-2019, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
^^^What is the purpose of a shortened .454C case in a .45colt chamber-thicker case wall or something else?


The ‘92 action was designed to handle the 30-30 when it was new at a pressure of something like 30K psi. Normal .45lc loads are like 13K, and the hot loads are like 18K. The .454C brass apparently is much thicker at the rear and uses small rifle primers, so can handle much higher pressure.

Now, to be clear, I did not come up with this idea nor do I advocate anyone trying it. This idea came from a very thorough report I read online. I tried it with my Rossi ‘92 and it worked well. With Reloader 7 the author was reporting 2,000+ FPS with a 300gr jacketed soft point. I never got any going quite that fast, but approached 1,900fps with a Sierra 300gr. JSP. That’s 2400 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle - almost .460 mag numbers. The author reported shooting a 200lb hog with this load while the pig was running straight away. Round entered near the base of the tail, exited between the shoulder blades, then re-entered the base of the skull and exited through the face. Penetrated the full length of the hog.

Recoil in a 6lb rifle with a steel butt plate certainly gets your attention, especially if you’re used to shooting 200gr bullets over Trail Boss.

I have not hunted with this load, but within a reasonable range I don’t think there is much it would not kill. And 10 rounds like this in a gun as handy and quick-pointing as a ‘92 is interesting. Kind of the cowboy version of an AR in .50 Beowulf.


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