A couple safe questions

[golfish]

I'm looking for another safe. I know we all have our favorites and ideas of which models and brands are the best. I'm not a fan of the push button key pads so which ever safe I get will eventually have a dial lock.

The description says this
"UL Listed S&G mechanical lock with no vulnerable solenoid or key override feature"

It looks like a dial in the full picture but they show a keypad.

Is a keypad mechanical ?
Do all keypad locks use solenoids ?
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...bd-7242-47-7-e

[Teachu2]

Google that model and all the other descriptions say it's electronic lock. Even TSC specs it with an alkaline battery.

Check out https://www.sunweldingsafes.com/ and get what you want the first time. Realize that 12ga is 7/64" thick - less than 1/8".

[golfish]

Originally Posted by Teachu2

Google that model and all the other descriptions say it's electronic lock. Even TSC specs it with an alkaline battery.

Ha, I see what they did there...

[Jeepergeo]

Simplex locks use push buttons and those are 100% mechanical and very reliable. However, I have only seen them on lockboxes, not conventional safes like in the picture you posted.

Maybe hold out for an S&G mechanical dial? They typically cost more up front but are a long proven technology.

[golfish]

Originally Posted by Jeepergeo

Simplex locks use push buttons and those are 100% mechanical and very reliable. However, I have only seen them on lockboxes, not conventional safes like in the picture you posted.

Maybe hold out for an S&G mechanical dial? They typically cost more up front but are a long proven technology.

I've had one (S&G dial) on the safe I have now for 25 years, no problems at all.
Winchester does make that safe with a dial for the same price. The last letter in the model # is M instead of E...

[Teachu2]

It appears that the dial model is discontinued.

I've purchased half a dozen RSCs over the last 33 years, all of which are still in the family. Two Bighorns from Costco, an Oxbow (rebranded Cannon) from a LGS, a Cannon Widebody from TSC, a Sun Welding from a vendor at a local gun club, and a Summit Denali from the local Liberty dealer. The Sun and the Summit both have S&G mechanical dials, the rest are electronic touchpads. None have given me a problem, ever.

[golfish]

Originally Posted by Teachu2

It appears that the dial model is discontinued.

.

I wonder if this is a new model? It does look like it's a new item at tractor supply.

This model looks like it might be worth the extra $500.00 for the 10 ga body. This one is 1310# and the one in the OP is 1080#

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...tr-7240-48-7-e

When you/I get up over 700# is when I have to think about using a safe moving company. It does look like the door comes off on these models. Does anybody know if they do?

Curbside delivery is a huge difference between the two. The one in the OP is $80.00. The one in this post is $239.00. That's some big money difference for 230#

[Teachu2]

Originally Posted by golfish

I wonder if this is a new model? It does look like it's a new item at tractor supply.

This model looks like it might be worth the extra $500.00 for the 10 ga body. This one is 1310# and the one in the OP is 1080#

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...tr-7240-48-7-e

When you/I get up over 700# is when I have to think about using a safe moving company. It does look like the door comes off on these models. Does anybody know if they do?

Curbside delivery is a huge difference between the two. The one in the OP is $80.00. The one in this post is $239.00. That's some big money difference for 230#

The difference between 10ga and 12ga is only 1/32". The big difference is the additional sheetrock fire insulation. That stuff is heavy!

None of the chain store gun safes are going to stop thieves for long. They will keep the kids out, and thwart the junkies, but they are quickly defeated with common power tools. If a $1000 safe won't stop them, neither will a $2000 one. All you are doing is slowing them down, so you need to layer your protection. I have an alarm system with cameras inside and out, motion lights, big dogs, multiple "safes", nosy neighbors, and irregular schedules. I also have insurance.

Home burglaries where the burglars open a RSC are pretty rare. Home invasion robberies are pretty rare, but if one happens to you and you are not prepared to repel the invaders by deadly force, it won't matter if you have a $20,000 safe. When they are able to control you, you will open the safe for them.

In the homeowner lines of RSCs (Residential Security Containers) which are commonly marketed as "gun safes", "executive safes", and "personal safes", there's not a lot of difference from one to another at a given price point. Most of the less costly ones are imported, many from China, regardless of brand. Cannon is mostly made in Mexico, thanks to NAFTA. Most are made out of thin steel, and lined with sheetrock or fireboard (high-grade sheetrock) for fire protection. The weight is in the fire protection. The security is in the steel, and the door is the strongest side. Many of them are about the same strength (and weight) as an old refrigerator. Oftentimes the more expensive models just have nicer paint and carpet, and maybe more layers of sheetrock - but still thin steel.

Go to a real safe dealer and look at real safes. Get educated. Look at a jeweler's safe. Price a TL-30 safe (that takes 30 minutes to break into with common tools) and see what it weighs, and how little it holds. Then look at a high-end "gun safe" and compare it to a low-end "gun safe". Then consider your personal circumstances. How much do you need to secure, from whom, for how long? Where are you going to put this box of treasures? When are you likely to move? What are the obstacles? I've moved those 19cf Bighorns from Costco up stairs (hint - take off the door!) but it was all I could do to get the Cannon Widebody (640 lbs) into the garage with a pallet jack and a helper.

If prying them open is a worry, smaller is better. I'd rather have two 19cf Bighorns than the Cannon Widebody for storing guns, as I think that wide door will flex easier, but for ammo it's perfect.

Finally, ANY gun safe is better than no gun safe. My Bighorns were gifted to my sons (Costco would have refunded them!) and live in apartment closets now. Lag bolted to the wall studs, they offer enough protection for their needs. Gun safes are like shoes - get what works for you and fits your needs.

[luckylogger6]

Skip the box store safe and find a used commercial safe. look for one with a TL-15 or TL-30 rating. Watch a few youtube videos of how easy it is to break in to RSC...

[Teachu2]

Originally Posted by luckylogger6

Skip the box store safe and find a used commercial safe. look for one with a TL-15 or TL-30 rating. Watch a few youtube videos of how easy it is to break in to RSC...

That's an idea, especially if you have a suitable location. I found a great one a few years back, only $1500. Only three issues with it - not really suited for long guns (too short inside), was only 20 cents/pound (7500 pounds) and was not at all attractive to put inside the house.

[Stumpfenhammer]

Whatever you get, be sure to solidly attach your safe to the floor. I know of two thefts where the crooks just wheeled the entire gunsafe into a truck to be broken into offsite, also, most safes are weakest on the bottom and already have a hole that can easily be drilled out to allow access for a reciprocating saw or grinder, so they can just dump the safe on it's side and they'll soon have the bottom open.

[Teachu2]

Originally Posted by Stumpfenhammer

Whatever you get, be sure to solidly attach your safe to the floor. I know of two thefts where the crooks just wheeled the entire gunsafe into a truck to be broken into offsite, also, most safes are weakest on the bottom and already have a hole that can easily be drilled out to allow access for a reciprocating saw or grinder, so they can just dump the safe on it's side and they'll soon have the bottom open.

Back when I was a LEO, saw where some enterprising young men decided to burglarize a farmers home. He had an office in the back of the house with a large, heavy gun safe bolted to the concrete pad. Heavy, barred outside door, and a couple of big dogs in the back yard. They broke in through the front door while the family was out, pulled a chain through the house to the safe, and pulled it out with the bulldozer the farmer owned. Not much security on old bulldozers. Damage to the house was ten times the value of the safe and contents.

[Tyson]

Back when I was in the market for a safe, I remember the consensus seemed to be S&G (Sargent and Greenleaf) or a La Gard were the top locks of choice.

Both of ours have mechanical S&G and not a single problem with either. The one safe gets opened about every day. When I inquired about any maintenance with the locks the dealer I spoke to said it wasn't necessary and they should have a service life of years and years.

There a lot of great info being provided on here from people. The only thing I would reiterate would be that your money goes a lot farther on say craigslist if you know what to look for. The TL rated safes can go for very little if someone wants to move it quick.

[The Geologist]

Check out Sturdy Safe. https://www.sturdysafe.com/ https://www.sturdysafe.com/pages/video-list Many Cal Guns members have them from group buys, and if you call in to order usually they will give you a discount for just asking.