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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1241  
Old 10-18-2020, 1:24 PM
Buffman Buffman is offline
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Yep the #1155 is a beast of a plate for the cost vs performance ratio..
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  #1242  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:02 PM
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Again with all these same rating level plates being different weights...

I wonder how a Hesco 7.2 pounder differs from the RMA 8.3 pounder...

I'd be inclined to get the Hesco 4401 for $15 more save a pound.

But then again, I consider the Botach level IV full strike face and they work at only 5 pound eleven ounces $99.

But they must be level IV phone books ahahahah.

It would be insteresting for someone in the industry to comment on the formulas and ratios of Ceramic:UHMWPE and how different designs affect weight. I'd assume the Battle Steel are more advanced designs using cheaper import materials, but some price tag whores might get triggered. I also wouldn't be shocked if some golden USA brands also use import materials and make a tish ton more profit per plate.
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  #1243  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:09 PM
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The RMA 1155s are insanely heavy. I had a pair and quickly sold them weeks later.

The Botach level IV is much better IMHO.
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  #1244  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
The RMA 1155s are insanely heavy. I had a pair and quickly sold them weeks later.

The Botach level IV is much better IMHO.
8+ pound ceramics are the ones people used to hate and go buy 8 pound steel with spall coating. IIRC. I guess these times have people going back to the old stuff. The old ceramic designs were expensive though. I don't recall any $135 plates but relative to steel, still less durable for multi-hit and more expensive.

Not like I really need level IV... but they are light and cost $99 so why not.
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  #1245  
Old 10-20-2020, 2:06 PM
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Ferro Concepts just restocked some slicksters
here you go
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  #1246  
Old 10-20-2020, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. Saiga View Post
Ferro Concepts just restocked some slicksters
here you go
Black. Let's see some OD, Ferro.
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  #1247  
Old 10-21-2020, 12:49 PM
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Just a heads up to any of you who don't know but Botach really sucks with their shipping and customer service. I placed a order on September 28th received a email of shipping confirmation on the 8th of October with confirmation number and UPS still doesn't show the item has shipped yet. I've reached out to botack numerous times and have received no reply. 6 day shipping for an instock item going on 23 days with no reply and no delivery.
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  #1248  
Old 10-21-2020, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbo View Post
Just a heads up to any of you who don't know but Botach really sucks with their shipping and customer service. I placed a order on September 28th received a email of shipping confirmation on the 8th of October with confirmation number and UPS still doesn't show the item has shipped yet. I've reached out to botack numerous times and have received no reply. 6 day shipping for an instock item going on 23 days with no reply and no delivery.
Yep that’s Botach alright
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  #1249  
Old 10-21-2020, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbo View Post
Just a heads up to any of you who don't know but Botach really sucks with their shipping and customer service. I placed a order on September 28th received a email of shipping confirmation on the 8th of October with confirmation number and UPS still doesn't show the item has shipped yet. I've reached out to botack numerous times and have received no reply. 6 day shipping for an instock item going on 23 days with no reply and no delivery.
I'm surprised to see so many people talking about buying from Botach; I remember years ago when I first really got into guns, reading nothing but horror stories about Botach products & services.
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  #1250  
Old 10-21-2020, 1:48 PM
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I wouldn't put BOTACH up for any awards, but they deliver.

Probably up there with Optics Planet maybe better.

Not as bad as a Sportsman's Guide or Cheaper Than Dirt.

Things change.

I used to order from Cabela's at least once a week.

Definitely order from BOTACH more now.

Do like Brownell's, Midway USA, Primary Arms, Joe Bob's, the various "Tactical" sites more. But if you don't like them, don't order.

Talk about slow... I ordered stuff from Larue a few times and they take at least 60 days to even ship or update the order status each time. I'm ok with it. Last time I received an upper from them I ordered another the same day. Do what you like.

I have had similar situations from Midway and a few other places before with backorder scenarios where I was just patient and things showed up. The ones I cancelled in the past couple years were OP IIRC. Some situations require more patience and some people have more patience to give.

Last edited by crufflers; 10-21-2020 at 1:51 PM..
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  #1251  
Old 10-21-2020, 2:27 PM
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https://www.optactical.com/crprjuplca.html

Multicam Crye JPC 1.0 instock
Super fast shipping and no tax from OPtac
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  #1252  
Old 10-21-2020, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Prestige View Post
https://www.optactical.com/crprjuplca.html

Multicam Crye JPC 1.0 instock
Super fast shipping and no tax from OPtac
Nice. There needs to be a thread on all the vendors that still do not charge tax.
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  #1253  
Old 10-21-2020, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Prestige View Post
https://www.optactical.com/crprjuplca.html

Multicam Crye JPC 1.0 instock
Super fast shipping and no tax from OPtac
My buddy just scored one of these. thank you kindly
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  #1254  
Old 10-21-2020, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Prestige View Post
https://www.optactical.com/crprjuplca.html

Multicam Crye JPC 1.0 instock
Super fast shipping and no tax from OPtac
Sweet! Always wanted one. Ordered. Thanks!
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  #1255  
Old 10-22-2020, 11:23 AM
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https://www.trex-arms.com/store/Hesc...eat-Plate-Set/

Restocked
No Tax and fast shipping.
Don’t give into the resellers !
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  #1256  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:03 PM
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Woot, snagged a set. Now to shop for a plate carrier...
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  #1257  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:10 PM
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L210's are nice. But honestly IMHO, more people have M80 ball than the green tip 556. I have cans of green tip from a million years ago... I don't shoot them. Everyone has green tip but are they loading mags with them?

I'd worry about .308's
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  #1258  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
Woot, snagged a set. Now to shop for a plate carrier...
Slickster, Jpc 1.0 and 2.0, spiritus lv-119. These all fit L210s great.
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  #1259  
Old 10-22-2020, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
L210's are nice. But honestly IMHO, more people have M80 ball than the green tip 556. I have cans of green tip from a million years ago... I don't shoot them. Everyone has green tip but are they loading mags with them?

I'd worry about .308's
Yeah, me too. 308s are really popular now. Ideally I want m855 and m80 protection but if i have to choose one its m80.

Another thing too is single curve plates are super uncomfortable in the rear bag of a plate carrier. They work fine in front or in the back of a tactical vest like a CIRAS. I like to use a triple curve plate for the rear of a plate carrier. I got an old medium SAPI I run in the back for comfort and I run my Hoplite single curve swimmers cut 10x12 level IV+ in the front. That thing is a beast, and really thin too.

After seeing first hand the battlesteel level IV from Botach, I think its a better option over the L210. Its got an ever so slight triple curve to it.
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Last edited by California_Deplorable; 10-22-2020 at 3:42 PM..
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  #1260  
Old 10-22-2020, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbo View Post
Just a heads up to any of you who don't know but Botach really sucks with their shipping and customer service. I placed a order on September 28th received a email of shipping confirmation on the 8th of October with confirmation number and UPS still doesn't show the item has shipped yet. I've reached out to botack numerous times and have received no reply. 6 day shipping for an instock item going on 23 days with no reply and no delivery.
They really dropped the ball on how their "in stock" items are. I ordered a set of the IIIA plates with carrier, which was suppose to be in stock. Finally received a noticed saying it was shipped. I ordered about a month ago. Took about 2 weeks to get a reply to order status. If you check the order status page, it will be marked properly at least for me it did. Just sucks I never received any sort of status updates until I reached out and that took 2 weeks to get a reply.

As for the level IV plates I ordered 2 times and both shipped within 2 days. I guess YMMV as far as when orders get shipped.
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  #1261  
Old 10-24-2020, 8:03 AM
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$180 Ferro Slickster in multicam size M on Ebay (seller ships fast - i bought one from him already)

HERE IS THE LINK
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  #1262  
Old 10-24-2020, 2:22 PM
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https://www.spiritussystems.com/shop-all/

If you ever wanted a LV-119 without the price gouge. Now is your best chance.
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  #1263  
Old 10-24-2020, 5:18 PM
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Is it just me or do Hesco L210s fit terribly in the Slickster? Large L210s leave a ton of slack in my medium Slickster and I have to really crank down on the lower Velcro.


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  #1264  
Old 10-24-2020, 6:17 PM
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the swimmers cut does have some extra space up top in my slickster

Quote:
Originally Posted by CZebra View Post
Is it just me or do Hesco L210s fit terribly in the Slickster? Large L210s leave a ton of slack in my medium Slickster and I have to really crank down on the lower Velcro.


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  #1265  
Old 10-24-2020, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZebra View Post
Is it just me or do Hesco L210s fit terribly in the Slickster? Large L210s leave a ton of slack in my medium Slickster and I have to really crank down on the lower Velcro.


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https://www.first-spear.com/10x12-pa...-non-ballistic

Zero ballistic protection but these really make the Slickster fit the L210 like a glove
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  #1266  
Old 10-24-2020, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Prestige View Post
https://www.first-spear.com/10x12-pa...-non-ballistic

Zero ballistic protection but these really make the Slickster fit the L210 like a glove
Cheap fix. They have some nice gear there too, that looks in-stock.
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  #1267  
Old 10-27-2020, 12:36 PM
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Battle steel level 4 10x12 back in stock
https://www.google.com/amp/s/botach....listic-plates/
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  #1268  
Old 10-27-2020, 12:59 PM
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Militech Level IV B4C plate

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  #1269  
Old 10-27-2020, 1:10 PM
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Militech Level IV B4C plate

GREAT videos, mang. Thanks for doing them.
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  #1270  
Old 10-28-2020, 9:03 AM
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Militech Level IV B4C plate

I wish every review would show the ceramic coverage and provide a measurement related to the actual plate size as well as the aftermath like you did in this video. Gives a better idea of what muti-hits do to ceramic. Maybe Deconstructing some pristine plates would illustrate ceramic coverage variance.
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  #1271  
Old 10-28-2020, 3:03 PM
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Anyone know of any reviews on this plate?

Battle Steel Level III 10x12 Ballistic Hard Plates Shooters Cut Curved Polyurea Coating FREE SHIPPING
https://www.google.com/amp/s/botach....free-shipping/

I just got one to use when shooting in the forest. Its super light. Supposed to be level three so should stop basic range ammo like 5.56 M193, 7.62x39 and 7.62NATO M80. Would love to see someone shoot one of these.
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  #1272  
Old 10-28-2020, 3:11 PM
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For the price why not get the level IV? Especially if you are going to shoot it? Although the level III does have free shipping.

Edit: I just noticed it is 2 different types. My fault.

Level III


Level IV

Last edited by 3lsmc7; 10-28-2020 at 3:15 PM..
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  #1273  
Old 10-28-2020, 4:52 PM
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For the price why not get the level IV?
WEIGHT. But I agree with you. I picked up a few Level IV sets and the weight of those at a little over 5.5 pounds each feels really light to me.
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  #1274  
Old 10-28-2020, 4:54 PM
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FWIW, these are the Level III (+) plates I would get to save more weight... 4.2 pounds.

https://botach.com/battle-steel-leve...-shooters-cut/
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  #1275  
Old 10-28-2020, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lsmc7 View Post
For the price why not get the level IV? Especially if you are going to shoot it? Although the level III does have free shipping.

Edit: I just noticed it is 2 different types. My fault.

Level III
Sweet! Thanks for the video.

As to your question about why not level IV. I do have Level IV plates for actual SHTF scenario.

But since I do most of my shooting in the forest, I like the lightest plates possible just for training and plinking protection. Less mileage on my back. These level 3s are crazy light. It makes a huge difference. Im not worried about getting shot by AP rounds. Its only for protection against my own range ammo. And since they are "plastic" I can throw them in a range bag and dont worry about banging em around.
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Last edited by California_Deplorable; 10-28-2020 at 5:12 PM..
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  #1276  
Old 10-28-2020, 9:48 PM
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I just got a Mystery Ranch Street Zen 25L pack and I like it a lot. Great quality material stitching, zippers, etc... and guess what fits in the tablet / laptop pocket perfectly? A Level IIIA+ 11x14 hard plate. I had adjusted the straps pretty tight and that put the plate under the chin a bit high... loosening the straps would put it at acceptable height.
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  #1277  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:51 PM
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Botach emailed me today and said my order is going to ship. I said I heard that before.
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  #1278  
Old 10-28-2020, 11:12 PM
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Groo!
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  #1279  
Old 10-29-2020, 12:04 AM
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Why are you guys/girls talking about level IV? Isn’t level IIIA soft armor enough?
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  #1280  
Old 10-29-2020, 6:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novelty View Post
Why are you guys/girls talking about level IV? Isn’t level IIIA soft armor enough?
Level IIIa soft armor stops handgun rounds. A rifle round will go thru both sides of IIIa soft armor like a knife thru butter.

Only rifle plates will stop rifle rounds...those are rated at III or IV.

Here is the breakdown of the NIJ ratings...

NIJ LEVELS - US NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF JUSTICE
NIJ Ballistic Levels Protection ( Level IIA, Level II, Level IIIA, Level III and Level IV)
Body armor is a critical safety piece of safety equipment that has saved the lives of thousands of people. However people who are in the market for body armor often find it difficult to assess which choice is right for them. There are a few primary factors to consider which solution will best suit their needs; threat level, heat buildup, comfort, mobility conceal-ability and cost. Threat level or protection level is typically the biggest factor when choosing body armor, and also the most difficult aspect to understand.

The U.S. National Institute of Justice (NIJ) has established and updated minimum performance stands for body armor to ensure that users will know what their body armor will protect them from. The NIJ classifies body armor into 5 different threat levels:

Level IIA, Level II, Level IIIA, Level III and Level IV; based on their ability to stop specified rounds at specified velocities. The current standard is NIJ 101.06. Also please note that while a higher level generally means protection against more powerful rounds, it does not account for other factors such as weight, or multi-hit capability. Because of this it is suggested that you choose body armor that is right for the situation and not the one that is the highest level.

NIJ Level IIA
NIJ Level IIA armor is typically soft body armor, meaning that it is composed of layers of high-strength woven fibers. Common types of these fibers are aramid fibers such as Kevlar, Twaron, and Goldflex or Polyethylene fibers such as Spectra and Dyneema. Level IIA is designed to stop a .9mm FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) round at a speed of ~1165 feet per second (ft/s) and a .40 S&W FMJ at 1065 ft/s. Most often found in soft body armor vests, Level IIA is usually the lightest, most flexible, most comfortable and easiest to conceal.

NIJ Level II
A step above Level IIA is Level II which is also most commonly soft body armor. Level II is designed to protect from .9mm FMJ traveling at a speed of ~1245 ft/s and a .357 Magnum JSP (Jacketed Soft Point) at ~1,430 ft/s. Like IIA, Level II body armor is typically very light, comfortable and easy to conceal, however it provides significantly more protection against blunt force trauma (trauma caused by kinetic energy of the round hitting the plate or vest.) Because of this factor most concealable body armor vests are either Level II or Level IIIA, with Level IIA falling largely out of date.

NIJ Level IIIA
Level IIIA is designed to stop .357 Sig FMJ FN (Flat Nose) bullets traveling at a velocity of ~1470 ft/s and .44 Magnum SJHP (Semi Jacketed Hollow Point) rounds at a velocity of 1430 ft/s. Like its level IIA and Level II, Level IIIA is most commonly soft armor, however hard armor plates and ballistic shields can sometimes be found with a rating of level IIIA.

NIJ Level III
At level III, we transition to soft body armor vests to the world of ballistic plate levels. Ballistic body armor plates are also referred to as rifle plates or hard armor plates. Level III rifle plates are designed to stop 6 spaced hits of 7.62x51mm NATO FMJ (U.S. Military designation M80) at a velocity of ~2780 ft/s, which is very similar to the .308 Winchester round often used in hunting. Some manufacturers (ourselves included) also offer hard armor rifle plates that are referred to as level III+. While the NIJ does not recognize the rating of level III+, these plates typically have the + to indicate that they stop the same rounds at higher velocities or to indicate protect from NIJ threat level III plus additional threats such as M855 and M193. Level III and III+ body armor plates can be found at a variety of different price points depending on the rifle plate’s weight and material. The cheapest and heaviest of these options are typically steel body armor plates which can weigh anywhere from 8-10 lbs depending on the size of the plate. While more expensive options such as those made from Polyethylene or ceramic, can weigh as little as 3 pounds.

NIJ Level IV
Level IV ballistic plates are the highest rated hard armor plates under NIJ 101.06 standards. These hard armor plates were designed to take 1 hit from an armor-piercing rifle. These rifle plates are tested to defeat 7.62MM armor piercing (AP) bullets (also known was .30-06 or 30 ot 6) traveling at a velocity of 2880 ft/s. Please note that since level IV ballistic plates are only tested to stop 1 shot compared to 6 shots from a level III hard armor plate, a level IV hard armor plate is not always better than a level III hard armor plate. Besides NIJ certification there are other standards of bullet resistance such as the U.S. Military’s SAPI (Small Arms Protective Insert) standards, which features plates designed to military specifications. This standard first came into play with their Interceptor body armor (IBA), and later with their Improved Outer Tactical Vest (IOTV) and the Modular Tactical Vest (MTV). Since 2005, they have moved to the ESAPI (Enhanced SAPI) Program. There are also what are referred to as Special Threats plates which are designed to stop common threats while minimizing weight and cost. Typically examples of these plates are AK-47 and AR-15 plates.


One other thing to consider when purchasing is whether or not the body armor plate is Stand-Alone, meaning it does not require any additional armor to meet its stated threat level; or In-Conjunction, which are designed to meet their stated threat level when in-conjunction with a soft body armor vest. There are also hard armor plates that are listed as Level III/IV ICW, which means that the plate is Level III Stand-Alone and level IV when paired with an appropriate soft body armor vest.


Regardless of what type of soft body armor vest or hard armor plate you choose, it is always recommended to pair a vest with a blunt trauma plate (for soft armor) or a soft armor vest (if you’re using soft armor.) This is because even though a bulletproof vest or rifle plate may stop the the bullet from penetrating the vest or plate, there is still a lot of kinetic energy that is transferred to the plate/vest and then into the users body. Trauma plates and soft armor backers help absorb and mitigate much of this energy, thus reducing the potential for injury. When you have determined the threat level that is appropriate for your situation, you must consider the trade-off between protection, cost, comfort and weight. If you are wearing a vest for an extended period of time, the importance of weight, comfort and mobility becomes an incredibly important aspect. In conclusion, prospective buyers should define the criteria that will suit their needs.


By narrowing what type of rounds you are expected to encounter you reduce the chance of under preparing or even worse, over preparing. Often people purchase armor that is too heavy which they will not wear or if they do will severely limit their movement, making them a sitting duck in hostile situations. Lastly no body armor plate or bullet proof vest is 100% fail-safe they are only bullet-resistant; the best defense is to not get shot at all.
__________________
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." ----Sen. Barry Goldwater

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ----Benjamin Franklin

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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 10-29-2020 at 6:38 AM..
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