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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1921  
Old 09-21-2022, 9:46 PM
Huddo Huddo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
got a couple of emails from them today, clearing up some questions. Pasting from them:
Regarding the holster, it can be inside or outside the waistband. It just needs to fit or be designed for the gun. That is a safety issue.

Cross draw holsters, shoulder holsters, and ankle holsters are not acceptable.



See below for answers to your questions:

Will I be required to qualify with both of the firearms I want on my card, or just one?



Yes, permits are issued to both a person and specific firearms. The firearms are reported to the DOJ as being part of a CCW permit. So, you will qualify with both firearms.



How many magazines should I plan on having, per firearm? Is two enough, or should I have more?



The instructor prefers three magazines but two, or even one, is sufficient. You certainly don’t have to buy another magazine to complete the course. Three magazines is a matter of convenience but not necessity.



How much ammunition, per gun should I plan on shooting?



18 rounds per gun for qualification and 100 rounds for one of the guns for practice and training. The ammunition must be commercially manufactured. Reloads are not allowed.



Will I be shooting with both strong hand and weak hand?



If I recall correctly, the qualification course is strong hand but they practice weak hand during the drills. I will double check with the instructor and get back to you.



Can you give me a little more detail on the course of fire, so that I can be best prepared?



QUALIFICATION DISTANCES AND TIMES:

5 yards, 6 rounds in 5 seconds
7 yards, 6 rounds in 10 seconds
10 yards, 6 rounds in 15 seconds


*6 rounds are fired at each distance, unless the pistol only holds 5.



It’s a conventional silhouette target. Shots must hit inside the outermost target ring to count. Even if all of the rounds hit inside the outermost ring, a shooter would qualify.

The intent of the qualification course is to demonstrate safe and competent handling of a firearm as opposed to marksmanship. Almost all applicants successfully qualify.

The course is timed but there is ample time to fire the required rounds in the allotted time.

Some shooters are apprehensive about drawing from the holster. I think most of the persons who find drawing from a holster difficult, rush and throw rounds into the dirt because they don’t acquire a sight picture before firing. A shooter probably could pass the course strictly point shooting because the distances are short but it’s best to acquire sight picture. For example, once you acquire a sight picture at 5 yards, it’s hard to miss even though you will fire six rounds in five seconds.

PS I confirmed the qualification course does not involve weak or off hand shooting. They practice weak hand shooting separately from the qualification but that part of the practice is optional.



Lt. Hoekwater mentioned to me that you had some discussion during your interview about authorized firearms for permits, so see below:



The Office of the Sheriff does not normally authorize more than two handguns for a permit.

“Single Action Only” handguns are not approved for CCW permits. For example, the Colt Model 1911 semi auto pistol is not an approved firearm. Any 1911 variant or firearm built on the 1911 configuration made by other manufacturers, e.g., Kimber, will not be approved for a CCW permit.
Semi automatics which fire the first round double action and successive rounds single action are approved.
Striker fired handguns, e.g., Glocks, are acceptable.
Derringers or single shot firearms are not approved.
Firearms with attached optics, laser sights, reflex sights, red dots, and flashlights are not approved for a CCW permit.
Firearms approved for permits cannot be modified, including slide modifications and trigger modifications.
Minimum caliber is .32 and maximum caliber is .45.
Minimum barrel length is 2” and maximum barrel length is 6.
Permittees must have lawfully acquired the firearm and adhere to the laws regarding ownership.
Thanks for all the good info. That's very frustrating to hear that they do not allow any SAO firearms on the permits. Many of my handguns, including the 2 that I wanted to add to the permit are both SAO/1911 configuration, including the very popular CCW Sig P238.

Looks like I will now have to go and spend a significant amount of money to purchase new handguns to meet these requirements.

Can anyone make any assumptions on the Sheriff's logic/reasoning behind prohibiting SAO and 1911 configuration handguns? Do any other counties in CA have a similar restriction on their CCW's?

Also, does anyone feel that this seemingly arbitrary restriction conflicts with the below portion (or another similar portion) of the Bruen decision?


Justice Kavanaugh deemed problematic—as did the majority opinion in an important footnote[32]—any grant of “open-ended discretion to licensing officials,” regardless of its connection to a good-cause requirement. Justice Kavanaugh explained that “the 6 States including New York potentially affected by today’s decision may continue to require licenses for carrying handguns for self-defense so long as those States employ objective licensing requirements like those used by the 43 shall-issue States.”[33] He also kept the door wide open to as-applied challenges to state regimes that operate as anything but shall-issue in practice—regardless of how they look on paper. Where exorbitant costs of time and money are required to be expended by a concealed carry applicant, a shall-issue scheme would be ripe for an as-applied challenge.[34]

Last edited by Huddo; 09-21-2022 at 10:59 PM..
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  #1922  
Old 09-22-2022, 1:39 PM
Vagabond Vagabond is offline
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Does anyone know if CoCo still prohibits firearms that are listed as SSE from when that was a thing?

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  #1923  
Old 09-22-2022, 9:48 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by Huddo View Post

Do any other counties in CA have a similar restriction on their CCW's?
I was just lurking in the San Francisco thread. Yes, they have the same issue. SF is saying that it's a state DOJ policy. That begs the question; Do any counties allow 1911's?
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  #1924  
Old 09-22-2022, 9:52 PM
rdurling rdurling is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
I was just lurking in the San Francisco thread. Yes, they have the same issue. SF is saying that it's a state DOJ policy. That begs the question; Do any counties allow 1911's?
Shasta County does. A friend of mine lived in Redding and carried a Kimber 1911.
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  #1925  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:12 PM
Casoobaru Casoobaru is offline
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,.,,

Last edited by Casoobaru; 09-23-2022 at 10:59 PM..
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  #1926  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:23 PM
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I know Sacramento allows 1911s. I haven’t read that they are not allowed Napa. Further, I know several LEOs in different counties that carry 1911s.
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  #1927  
Old 09-23-2022, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Casoobaru View Post
If they say I can't carry my 442 I'm going to demand one of them buy me an off roster p365 and sell it to me at cost. FKin bullcrap
Demand one of them to straw purchase for you?

That’ll go well.
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  #1928  
Old 09-23-2022, 11:06 AM
Casoobaru Casoobaru is offline
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....

Last edited by Casoobaru; 09-26-2022 at 12:22 PM..
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  #1929  
Old 09-23-2022, 12:44 PM
Bobbie713 Bobbie713 is offline
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best of luck to everyone

Last edited by Bobbie713; 09-25-2022 at 12:48 PM.. Reason: better thoughts
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  #1930  
Old 09-27-2022, 11:08 AM
cire raeb cire raeb is offline
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My application passed the 90 days mark a couple of days ago and its well passed the 30 days window, since Live Scan was completed. Anybody in the same boat not heard back from the Sheriff's Office?
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  #1931  
Old 09-27-2022, 12:07 PM
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Default How they communicate

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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
I met with Lt. Ron Hoekwater. He's in the Internal Affairs department and manages the CCW program.

The interview was simple. He started by asking to see my ID. He went through my application and had me sign it in several places.
Ron, thanks for all the great info. I am trying to find out how they communicated back to you to schedule interview after background check. Didn't find this anywhere. Should I be focused on email, phone, messages, snail mail? Thanks Again.
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  #1932  
Old 09-27-2022, 12:30 PM
bonzai272 bonzai272 is offline
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Pretty sure it was a phone call. Look out for a call from a 925-655-xxxx number.
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  #1933  
Old 09-27-2022, 1:44 PM
Bobbie713 Bobbie713 is offline
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Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
My application passed the 90 days mark a couple of days ago and its well passed the 30 days window, since Live Scan was completed. Anybody in the same boat not heard back from the Sheriff's Office?
i submitted my application 6/22 and cleared livescan 8/11, the last communication i had with SO via email was a response telling me i was 168th in line and that was on 9/7
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  #1934  
Old 09-27-2022, 5:25 PM
DonJutton DonJutton is offline
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I just re-read the CCW instructions on the Coco website and this jumped out at me:

Quote:
During the course of that instruction/training, the applicant must pass a written exam and demonstrate firearms proficiency during a qualification shoot by a qualified Sheriff’s Office Range Master.
A written exam? Really? Is this new?
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  #1935  
Old 09-28-2022, 6:51 AM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by jackharper View Post
Ron, thanks for all the great info. I am trying to find out how they communicated back to you to schedule interview after background check. Didn't find this anywhere. Should I be focused on email, phone, messages, snail mail? Thanks Again.
Phone call, followed by an email.
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  #1936  
Old 09-28-2022, 6:54 AM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by DonJutton View Post
I just re-read the CCW instructions on the Coco website and this jumped out at me:



A written exam? Really? Is this new?
No, nothing new.
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  #1937  
Old 09-28-2022, 7:01 AM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
My application passed the 90 days mark a couple of days ago and its well passed the 30 days window, since Live Scan was completed. Anybody in the same boat not heard back from the Sheriff's Office?
I was in that boat. My emails and phone calls were going unanswered until I reached out to my County Supervisor, who reached out to them on my behalf. I'm not sure if that mattered, I met a guy at my interview whose dates also matched mine.

I'd reach out to CRPA. https://crpa.org/news/blogs/crpa-iss...-ccw-issuance/

I'm pretty sure they've already reached out to CoCoSo, but adding another data point can't hurt.

The department is up to managing 800 applications as of a week ago. There is no way they can meet their legal obligations at this rate. Something has to change.

I think it bears repeating that the two guys that I've interacted with seem like good guys. They are buried and don't have the resources that they need. Keep that in mind with respect to your tone when contacting them.

Last edited by Ron Jeremey; 09-28-2022 at 7:05 AM..
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  #1938  
Old 09-28-2022, 1:51 PM
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Had my interview yesterday. I was told they are inundated with applications and that I will likely need to wait two months for the class and qualification. If you have to wait 6 months to exercise a constitutional right (date of application) it is not really a right.
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  #1939  
Old 09-28-2022, 2:11 PM
bonzai272 bonzai272 is offline
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^agreed. What is your timeline, if you dont mind sharing? Now that we know you interviewed yesterday, just curious when you actually applied, cleared the DOJ and FBI, and were called for the interview.
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  #1940  
Old 09-28-2022, 2:18 PM
bdmew1 bdmew1 is offline
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I interviewed with Contra Costa today.

Met with Lt. Ron Hoewater this morning at 10:40 for my interview. Introduced himself as Ron, and the relaxed nature of the interview and discussion was maintained through the interview.

Interview went the same as Ron Jeremey (forum member with interview on the 20th). (IF YOU WANT TO SKIP TO THE NEWER INFO, GO TO PART #2)

PART #1

After ID verification, he had me sign 3 places on my application. He asked about my anger, temperament, decision making, as well as alcohol consumption, current or past use of illegal substances, current medications.

I was also asked was history, training, and experience with firearms, any accidents or negligent handling with firearms, why, where, and how often I intend to carry.

This also likely links to questions on the exam during the range training but he was asked if I had read and understood the CCW application as well as understood where concealed carry was prohibited (schools, hospitals, courthouse, gov buildings, LE buildings, etc). We had went on a tangent about how personally owned weapons are allowed entry into certain military bases/facilities but not in a carry condition, and get inspected by gate guards, and so on. Came up because I'm military and I deduced that Ron was prior active or reserve. Ron just wanted to make sure I had a plan on how I was going to handle going to and from base for work. Talked about lock boxes for cars, and how he handles visiting bases since he still has access/CAC.

PART #2

Was told that there was no reason I should expect to be denied for CCW. Ron said current turnaround for apps to be approved by Sheriff Livingston is currently ~2 weeks for packets to return to Lt. Ron (which I deduce means Ron finally just now started getting packets back last week or this week).

I should expect to do the classroom training and range qualification around Jan time frame because the entire Oct-Dec quarter is booked and Thanksgiving and Christmas certainly cut into available training availability. Expect a full 8hr day at the range facility, bring 100rds, lunch, water. I forgot to ask if 100 per gun or total for two guns between drills and qual. I'm going to assume 100 per gun to be safe.

I asked about the hearsay prohibiting lights and red dots from carry guns. From Ron's understanding, he knows nothing banning lights and red dots, especially since they carry lights on their duty guns. However he said "Pete," the guy who runs the email is the more knowledgeable guy with respect to the guns and gear stuff. I got a decently fast response a few weeks ago when my email was about interview materials so I guess "Pete" ignores most emails about wait times but responds to actual questions or concerns. Ron did mention how 1911 style weapons are prohibited because the Sheriff not wanting or trusting people to carry cocked and locked. I didn't ask about the details of the weapon inspection, but I should have given the magazine disconnect on my M&P Shield "broke."

Approximately there's some 800-1000 applications at this point, and the million of bottlenecks are stemming from the CCW program being a barely even a skeleton. Contra Costa requires CCW training be on their range, but that means we have to share range time with Deputies requiring training and share Range Officers and instructors. They're looking at increasing the CCW classes and range sessions from 10-12 to 14-16 at a time. They're also looking into getting more Range officers and instructors, possibly even contracting outside of the Sheriff Dept. But that requires time for approval, vetting, money. (You'd think with how good CA is at enlarging the bureaucracy, this wouldn't be too hard).

This all reinforces that Contra Costa's method of doing everything in house with barely any staff and instructors to handle applications and training being the culprit for the backlog. However just as how ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, a lack of structure and staff is not an excuse for this snail's pace. I never brought that up with Ron, but that's the rationale in my head. I in no way wanted to project anger or blame at Ron, who's just being helpful and doing his job for the application packets. Fastest way for a packet to somehow get "lost."

Anyways I'm now out of things to dump out of my notebook and brain from after the interview. Cross posted on caguns reddit forum btw.
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  #1941  
Old 09-28-2022, 2:18 PM
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Source below:

"The Court’s Bruen ruling said that states may require carry permits, but they must issue them to ordinary people who are not criminals. Ordinary people must be able to carry a personal firearm in ordinary places where people congregate. Licensing cannot be excessively delayed or expensive.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/th...ot-even-close/
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  #1942  
Old 09-28-2022, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JDHCA View Post
Source below:

"The Court’s Bruen ruling said that states may require carry permits, but they must issue them to ordinary people who are not criminals. Ordinary people must be able to carry a personal firearm in ordinary places where people congregate. Licensing cannot be excessively delayed or expensive.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/th...ot-even-close/
The short answer to this is that anyone who can pass a NICS check should be permitted to carry.
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  #1943  
Old 09-28-2022, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bonzai272 View Post
^agreed. What is your timeline, if you dont mind sharing? Now that we know you interviewed yesterday, just curious when you actually applied, cleared the DOJ and FBI, and were called for the interview.
Application June 25
Livescan June 28 (clear FBI and DOJ instantly)
Clear Firearms August 3
Call to set interview Sept 8
Interview Sept 27
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  #1944  
Old 09-28-2022, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator15 View Post
The short answer to this is that anyone who can pass a NICS check should be permitted to carry.
Exactly.
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  #1945  
Old 09-28-2022, 5:38 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by bdmew1 View Post
This all reinforces that Contra Costa's method of doing everything in house with barely any staff and instructors to handle applications and training being the culprit for the backlog. However just as how ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, a lack of structure and staff is not an excuse for this snail's pace. I never brought that up with Ron, but that's the rationale in my head. I in no way wanted to project anger or blame at Ron, who's just being helpful and doing his job for the application packets. Fastest way for a packet to somehow get "lost."
My thoughts exactly. There is no reason that CoCoSo can't outsource this like many other counties have.
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  #1946  
Old 09-28-2022, 5:45 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by bdmew1 View Post
I forgot to ask if 100 per gun or total for two guns between drills and qual. I'm going to assume 100 per gun to be safe.
Pete told me 100 total for the drills and 18 per gun for the qualification. I'll take twice what I need.

He also told me to have a holster for each gun. 3 magazines each is ideal, two is sufficient. 1 would work, but the range master will probably hate you.
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  #1947  
Old 09-28-2022, 6:37 PM
bdmew1 bdmew1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
Pete told me 100 total for the drills and 18 per gun for the qualification. I'll take twice what I need.

He also told me to have a holster for each gun. 3 magazines each is ideal, two is sufficient. 1 would work, but the range master will probably hate you.
Sounds like it'd be wise to bring a dump pouch or fanny pack to range to make things go faster. Just like doing pistol qual on military side.
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  #1948  
Old 09-28-2022, 10:14 PM
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Finally got a response email to my June application with my live scan instructions. Did live scan yesterday and will wait for interview now.

I’m only adding two guns to my list and from what I read, I’ll need holsters for both? I guess that makes sense since intend to carry.

One of mine of a Glock 29sf and 10mm is hard and expensive to find. I reload but all my gear is packed away. Take me a weekend to setup probably.
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  #1949  
Old 09-28-2022, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Psychbiker View Post
One of mine of a Glock 29sf and 10mm is hard and expensive to find. I reload but all my gear is packed away. Take me a weekend to setup probably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post

18 rounds per gun for qualification and 100 rounds for one of the guns for practice and training. The ammunition must be commercially manufactured. Reloads are not allowed.
From what has been said on here multiple times, no reloads. its sounds like you only need 18 rounds for one of your guns, so only 1 box of 10mm. you should be able to get by with 136 rounds, but I am not taking any chances and will bring several hundred just to be safe.
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  #1950  
Old 09-30-2022, 8:28 AM
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27 June -hand-delivered completed application to front desk at CCSO in Martinez (I may have seen one or two of you folks that day!)
25 July -received USPS delivery notification of incoming envelope from CCSO. Checked mailbox that evening and found nothing but coupons. Contacted USPS via their Informed Delivery service.
27 July -received LiveScan authorization via postal mail. Performed LiveScan at local UPS Store that afternoon
15 August -returned from family vacation and checked LiveScan process via DOJ website. Results indicated check was complete.
30 September -as of today, I have received no correspondence or contact of any kind from the Sheriff's Office.

Whom should I contact to move this thing along? Feel free to PM me if you wish. I want to wait my turn, but not squawk so loud my app gets buried.
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  #1951  
Old 09-30-2022, 4:28 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by signalsparks View Post

Whom should I contact to move this thing along? Feel free to PM me if you wish. I want to wait my turn, but not squawk so loud my app gets buried.
ccwpermits@so.cccounty.us

There are only two people in the whole department working on this. The guy who manages the communication is Pete Enea. He, and his boss, Lt. Ron Hoekwater are good guys. They are buried. They are managing 800 to 1000 application and they don't have the resources required to do it. I'm just saying that to remind everyone that our frustration is with David Livingston, not his employees. Keep that in mind when you craft your email.
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  #1952  
Old 09-30-2022, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bdmew1 View Post
They're looking into getting more Range officers and instructors, possibly even contracting outside of the Sheriff Dept.
I am an approved vendor for a couple nearby counties. I've emailed and left voice messages for Lt. Hoekwater about becoming an approved vendor for Contra Costa county as well but never heard back. I hope they do open it up to outside vendors. It seems like the best way to process all the applicants.
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  #1953  
Old 10-01-2022, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
I am an approved vendor for a couple nearby counties. I've emailed and left voice messages for Lt. Hoekwater about becoming an approved vendor for Contra Costa county as well but never heard back. I hope they do open it up to outside vendors. It seems like the best way to process all the applicants.
Hoping to hear at some point that you are an approved trainer! i took your class for a non resident ccw for Utah and Arizona. i would hands down attend another class.
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  #1954  
Old 10-01-2022, 7:26 PM
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Hoping to hear at some point that you are an approved trainer! i took your class for a non resident ccw for Utah and Arizona. i would hands down attend another class.
Same, would take another class from him as well.

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  #1955  
Old 10-02-2022, 8:15 AM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
I am an approved vendor for a couple nearby counties. I've emailed and left voice messages for Lt. Hoekwater about becoming an approved vendor for Contra Costa county as well but never heard back. I hope they do open it up to outside vendors. It seems like the best way to process all the applicants.
Best way? It’s the only way.
They have the personnel and infrastructure to qualify 16 people per week. They have about 1,000 people in the que.
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  #1956  
Old 10-02-2022, 9:36 AM
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62 weeks if no one else applied.
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  #1957  
Old 10-02-2022, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
I was just lurking in the San Francisco thread. Yes, they have the same issue. SF is saying that it's a state DOJ policy. That begs the question; Do any counties allow 1911's?
Nevada County does. Anything between .32 and .45 inclusive.
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  #1958  
Old 10-02-2022, 12:27 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by JDHCA View Post
62 weeks if no one else applied.
Which is a violation of our Constitutional rights.
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  #1959  
Old 10-02-2022, 1:29 PM
JDHCA JDHCA is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeremey View Post
Which is a violation of our Constitutional rights.
I'd venture a guess telling us what to carry or not, what calibers you can use or not, how long the barrel can be, or not, and having a psychological exam also are illegal.
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Old 10-02-2022, 1:50 PM
Ron Jeremey Ron Jeremey is offline
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Originally Posted by JDHCA View Post
I'd venture a guess telling us what to carry or not, what calibers you can use or not, how long the barrel can be, or not, and having a psychological exam also are illegal.
Bruen left that part of Heller intact.

I think it's important to stay focused. Right now the issue is that Livingston still isn't issuing CCWs in a timely manner. This should be an easy one to win if someone wants to sue him. Let's win the easy battles first.
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