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  #41  
Old 04-01-2022, 11:37 PM
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  #42  
Old 04-05-2022, 1:16 PM
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Default What I do with my Shotguns!

One of the things I do with my Shotguns is go to Training Classes at Front Sight. This is where I learn the vast majority of my Gun Handling, and Shooting Skills

So I went to Front Sight for some training last week. On Thursday we did a "Tactical Awareness Class." It is a new classroom type class and it is still getting tweaked a bit as to content. It concentrated mostly on Avoidance of a Fight and Defensive things to harden your home and lots of Mindset tips. All in all, a good class and I learned lots of new things I had never thought of.

Friday and Saturday were on the Shotgun Range in a Skill Builder Class designed to prep you for a test. My whole purpose for this trip was to DG with a pump gun. I had already DG'd with a Semi Auto and the Pump Gun is a little more challenging. I shot well at first and both my short M500's ran perfectly, I didn't acclimate well this time over, and the Desert had me for lunch. And so I sucked and didn't achieve my goal.

This class only had 9 people in it and my Bro in Law didn't make the second day as his hands were cramping badly by Lunch on the first day. There was only 2 pump guns in the class, Me and Bro. The rest were Berretta's, Benelli's, and two M930's.

This training emphasizes gun handling and with a Shotgun there is more "manipulation" than with either Rifles or Pistols. Ammo is often loaded one at a time as in the Port Loading Exercise Description above. There are Iterations where you are required to Shoot Multiple Targets under time pressure, do multiple Port Loads under time pressure, do Ammo Changes (Select Slug) and take longer slug shots, and then Clearing Malfunctions at the end of the test. Realistically the entire class could revolve around Port Loading and Shooting Multiples, and Select Slug Shots at 50 and 35 yards as these are the places where there is the most pressure to perform. Anyone can hit one target from 15 or 20 yards in 1.5 seconds.

The test goes like this. First you shoot 3 Select Slug shots from 50 yards. For this you have the gun loaded with buckshot and at the beep you load one slug into the magazine, rack the action, and then take the shot at the target with a Slug. The targets are painted black so you can see if you hit it or not. You do this 3 times at 50 and then 35 yards. This is done as a group with everyone shooting at once. I missed one of the 50 yard Shots.

Then you move forward to the 20 yard line and take one shot each from the Low Ready, High Ready and Field Ready, then move forward to the 15 yard line. Now this is done individually, with the instructor standing right behind you on both the 20 and 15 yard lines..

Next you shoot the Multiples. This consists of Shooting two targets from the ready in 1.6 seconds, then 3 target in 2.1 seconds, and then 4 in a Row in 2.6 seconds. This is where the Semi Autos have a serious advantage over the Pump Guns. I can get all 4 in around 2.0 seconds with my A5, I get get 3 in a row just about every time with the Pump Gun, but 4 in a row with the pump gun is really pushing it. I was close but missed out by about .2 on the time, and they said I had two partial hits which only count partially. IE: I lost a bunch of points on that one shot iteration.

Next was the Port Loading Drill. On this one you start with a loaded gun, and at the beep you fire, and then port load one round, and then fire again, and then port load again, and finish with a loaded gun. You get 4.2 seconds to do all this, and you do it twice.

Last is the Clearing of Malfunctions. You do each one twice.

You get 1.2 seconds to do a Type 1 Clearance which is firing on and empty chamber or dead round. You just rack and roll the gun and that's it. No Problem . Next is the Type 2 or Stove Pipe, where you have one hanging out of the Ejection Port. This one is done the same way as the Type 1 except you move out of the line of fire while clearing it in 1.4 seconds.
Type 3 is the Failure to Extract or Double Feed. On this one you have a spent round in the chamber that didn't get pulled out and then the gun stuffs another round in behind it. No time limit on this one, you just have to do it right. With the Pump Gun you just rack the slide to lose the double fed round then close hard to grab the spent case, and eject it, and then close to feed in the next good round. NO problem.

Then you do a Tactical Reload which is nothing more that feeding a round into the magazine in 3.5 seconds. No Problem with this one.

Then Last is an Emergency Reload. On this one you pull the trigger get a click, then rack and get another click, and then port load a round in 3.7 seconds. I bobbled the shell on one and lost some more points.

In the end I finished with a -37 which is just barely in the Graduate 70% zone -38 or less.. Last time did it with a Pump Gun I shot -14 which was one over DG which is -13 or less (Class #3). I shot -11 with my A5 and got DG on Class #4. That was also a few years ago and time is beginning to be a factor.

So all in all I sucked! I should have Dry Practiced all of this many times before I went. If I had I probably would have DG's this time as the things I need to Dry Practice most are the Port Loads and Multiple Targets. I never seem to Dry Practice Malfunctions either and maybe I should?.

Oh well now I have an excuse to go back for another class. It's all good! And no matter how bad I feel or how good or bad I shoot I always have a real good time!

So that's what I did with my Shotguns.

Randy
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  #43  
Old 04-05-2022, 1:26 PM
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Just for information sake Federal Low Recoil 000 Buckshot is running 1145 fps, as is Federal 00 Flight Control, and Federal Low Recoil Slugs are running 1300 fps.

All of these are from 18" bbls which are the standard for Police Shotguns.

Last I was told last week that Federal had sold the Rights to "Flight Control Wads" to Hornady which will be using them in their Critical Defense Ammo which is not cheap. So expect to pay $2-3 per round if you want that capability. Or you can get your barrel Vang Comped and get 7" at 25 yards with any 00 Buckshot you chose, and never have to pay for premium ammo again.. Here's a 3x3" group at 15 yards from, one of my Vang Comped Barrels. Normal Cylinder Bore Barrels produce 15" groups at 15 yards.

Randy

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File Type: jpg IMG_1525.jpg (84.8 KB, 612 views)
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Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 04-05-2022 at 1:38 PM..
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  #44  
Old 04-14-2022, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Just for information sake Federal Low Recoil 000 Buckshot is running 1145 fps, as is Federal 00 Flight Control, and Federal Low Recoil Slugs are running 1300 fps.

All of these are from 18" bbls which are the standard for Police Shotguns.

Last I was told last week that Federal had sold the Rights to "Flight Control Wads" to Hornady which will be using them in their Critical Defense Ammo which is not cheap. So expect to pay $2-3 per round if you want that capability. Or you can get your barrel Vang Comped and get 7" at 25 yards with any 00 Buckshot you chose, and never have to pay for premium ammo again.. Here's a 3x3" group at 15 yards from, one of my Vang Comped Barrels. Normal Cylinder Bore Barrels produce 15" groups at 15 yards.

Randy

Even though I recently got a hold of 750 shells of Federal LE13300 I'm going to send them mine, thanks.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2022, 12:17 AM
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Call Cody and tell him I sent you.

That should make things go faster.

Just send the barrel not the whole gun.

Randy
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  #46  
Old 04-16-2022, 2:27 PM
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Magpull furniture looks nice
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  #47  
Old 04-28-2022, 2:38 PM
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OK just for "Yee of little faith," Here is one shot with 000 Buck (8 pellets) I took today at 20 yards just to show you that the Vang Comp Process Works as Advertised. It measures @ 2x6" There was a 30+ MPH cross wind blowing. Randy

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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-13-2023 at 3:02 PM..
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2022, 5:18 PM
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Great Thread! Thank You for the Info W.R.Buchanan!
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  #49  
Old 10-01-2022, 5:58 AM
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I personally enjoy Remington 870s for their build orientation, but the pictures of a Mossberg 500 or 590 following Magpul loadout has a charming classic touch that is oddly modern. Something how Magpul designs or molds their plastic of carbon fiber products has a smooth hand crest on the surface material. No other brand has that feeling you just cant read about, but when its in your hands in a cycling or firing action. Its pretty wonderful.
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  #50  
Old 10-01-2022, 8:46 AM
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Thanks for the write up. Good info!

I put a limbsaver recoil pad on my magpul stock (Rem 870). For the 18.5” barrels with bead sights, I run a clip on sight.
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  #51  
Old 10-01-2022, 9:56 AM
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I always thought tactical shotguns classes were majority pump shotties with few autos- was this not the case for you in your classes?
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2022, 11:03 AM
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There are more Semi Autos showing up every time I go.

Running a Pump Gun takes more effort, and there is a learning curve that is longer than with SA, so younger people just getting into the sport tend to buy more SA's.

Pumps are much less expensive than SA's so the budget minded shooter can always go that route. You just have to put more effort into learning to operate it fast and that is where the trade off is.

It takes the same amount of effort to Reload a SA as a Pump so there is no advantage there. The gun handling and ammo manipulation is where all Tactical Shotguning is at. You should be able to aim and pull the trigger from the get go.

You really need at least one of both!

Randy
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  #53  
Old 10-10-2022, 10:37 AM
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Also note:

Worth while is replacing the magazine follower. the OEM one can and will fail on you.
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  #54  
Old 10-10-2022, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socal_Jack View Post
Also note:

Worth while is replacing the magazine follower. the OEM one can and will fail on you.
I buffed mine to a bright finish, never had a problem. The Main Issue with them is being able to see it when looking down thru the Ejection Port when unloading. I always turn the gun over nad check it from the bootom as well.

Randy
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  #55  
Old 12-24-2022, 4:14 PM
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Default What I did to my Shotguns.

I just dros’d a new member into my family and waiting to pick her up out of jail right after New Years. I bought the standard fde furniture because I’ve heard the pistol grip is in the way of ghost loading 4 shells. I also bought the Pro Comp style 3” lifter gate so it stays down when bottom loading and also to keep my fingers from getting pinched. I do want maybe +2 more rounds but the one piece mag tube isn’t threaded. A LGS manager told me to get the mag tube threaded so I can add an extension. Most likely the Lancer carbon fiber +2 extension so it doesn’t add too much weight at the muzzle. I may thread the barrel too to accept chokes and the outside diameter for a compensator.



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Last edited by CAGLS; 12-24-2022 at 4:18 PM..
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  #56  
Old 12-24-2022, 4:24 PM
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Actually you have a 7 round tube. Plus one ghost loaded and one chambered gives you 9 rounds. But normally you’d load 7 and call it cruiser ready.

The tube is threaded but on the very top under the resin cover. You can screw on a additional extension but it would stick way out front and the aluminum tube under the resin cover would be exposed. To do that you would need a NORDIC NUT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE BERETTA.

Bob
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  #57  
Old 05-13-2023, 4:05 PM
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OK Slug results with the Rifled Choke Tube installed in the Monkeyberg. I was only able to shoot at 25 yards that day due to really heavy fog at the Range. We could just barely see the targets at 25 yards!

The results were not only encouraging, but pretty damn good.



The first 4 shots were in the group to the left. I made a windage correction and the last shot split the vertical line. These were 1 oz. Lee Drive Key Slugs loaded into my standard Trap Load of AA hull, 18 gr of Green Dot, Claybuster Waa12 wad, @1150 fps,,, in other words the absolute cheapest way to shoot Slugs.

Please note: that there is 3 shots essentially thru the same hole with one off to the left a small amount.

These slugs will be used for 3 gun shoots and Classes when I attend. Pretty happy with these results!

This second target was shot with Lyman 525 Slugs which look like big Airgun Pellets. Same load as above just a different slug I have been trying to get these to perform for the last 3 years from Rifled Barrels with poor results. Pretty Happy with the results on these as well. Once again multiple shots thru the same hole with a couple of flyers that weren't that far away from the rest.



Also note how the holes have a more circular cut. The Lyman Slugs are more like a Wadcutter Diabolo Pellet with a big flat front that is .575 across! Energy transfer to a soft target would be devastating !!!
This is definitely a Hunting Slug!.



Conclusion on this Range Trip is that this Smoothbore Barrel with the Rifled Choke Tube shoots birdshot and slugs well.

Randy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2334.jpg (86.8 KB, 291 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2338.jpg (87.8 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg 100464745.JPG (53.6 KB, 293 views)
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Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
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Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-13-2023 at 4:27 PM..
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  #58  
Old 06-20-2023, 8:23 PM
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I haven't talked about my Browning Auto 5 on this thread yet.

The Browning A5 has been around since about 1904. It is a "Long Recoil" style action and Super Reliable.

I bought a good used one for $600 a few years ago. It is a 1963 model which had a really good feature added that year called the "Speed Feed."

Previously you had to load the gun by first "port loading" the first round, then turn the gun over and hold the bolt release button down which freed up the "One piece lifter" so it could be pushed up and rounds loaded into the magazine.

This was awkward and slow so JMB's son figured a way around it.

If the Magazine is Empty, the bolt is open, Period. You then stuff a round into the "Two Piece Lifter" into the mag and as soon as it is released the gun thinks it is still loaded and puts that round into the chamber instantly. Then you can finish loading the magazine without having to hold the Bolt Release down. This is much faster and there is no reason to Port Load the gun which is much slower.

I can beat the Benelli's and Berettas every time. And it cycles nearly as fast as the Italian guns and since it is "Recoil Operated" there is no fiddling with powder residue clogging up the works. Everything goes right out the barrel.

These guns have been around for 120 years and IMHO they are superior to everything that came later. All you have to do to keep one running is oil it with 30 wt. Motor Oil!

I have several barrels for this gun including a Buck Special Smoothbore Barrel with Rifle Sights, a Hastings Fully Rifled Barrel, a Smoothbore Barrel with a Cutts Compensator, and now a 20" Smoothbore Barrel with Rifle Sights for my 3 gun shoots.







Since this barrel had a Solid Rib I had to Drill and Tap it for the Front Sight Ramp, and the Rear Sight Tang. I had to cut off the Dovetail on the the Rear Sight's Tang so it laid flat on the rib..

Randy
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File Type: jpg IMG_2378.jpg (91.3 KB, 240 views)
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Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
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Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-25-2023 at 12:30 PM..
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  #59  
Old 06-30-2023, 6:27 AM
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Just found this and love the pics and info on your shotguns gents
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  #60  
Old 07-18-2023, 2:40 PM
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Great job on the Monkeyberg, Buchanan! Now that's 2 of your shotguns that I covet.
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Old 08-13-2023, 12:30 PM
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Oh, that looks nice.
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  #62  
Old 08-17-2023, 8:37 AM
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It also runs great. I ran it at my last 3 gun shoot and it did well despite some Funky Reloads I had to get rid of. No malfunctions just some bobbles in loading after I ran it dry.

Hot Tip: Don't reload "Kent" brand hulls. They are garbage!

Randy
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
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  #63  
Old 11-25-2023, 12:45 PM
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Default Pics of A5 Sights

Here's some pics of the sights.







Randy
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File Type: jpg IMG_2481.jpg (80.3 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2384.jpg (96.7 KB, 105 views)
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Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-25-2023 at 12:50 PM..
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  #64  
Old 12-17-2023, 11:55 AM
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Default Another Tactical Gun comes to fruition.

So I got a REALLY GOOD DEAL!!! on a 1960's made Mossberg 500 that was originally made for the Western Auto Chain of Stores. It had a Plain 30" Full Choke Barrel and nice Wood Furniture. It was such a good deal that I couldn't pass it up, not like I needed another one, but I will find a use for it. The gun was used, but it had not been used hard, and was not too dirty inside.

Western Auto was a competitor of Pep Boys back in the day, and had a bunch of cool stuff like Bicycles, and American Flyer Electric Trains which competed with Lionel and a bunch of WA Branded guns which are in high demand. I missed a nearly perfect WA Marlin 30-30 at a gun show a few years back that was ripe for just a wood refinish/action clean up. The WA Trains are serious Collector Items now as they were "S" Gauge with only two rails instead of the Lionel 3 rail system.

This gun had a few differences in the way it was put together than the others I have done. The Magazine Tube assembles into the Receiver differently and has a Flat Wound Spring around it that "cushions" the Slide Movement to the front. Also the entire Mag Tube/Slide Assembly has to be installed as a unit into the receiver. The others I have all can have the Mag Tube Screwed into the Receiver independently. There are also two 1/2" long Sleeves Silver Soldered to the tube to take up the slack between the Slide Tube and the Mag tube. Those aren't there on later guns.

Anyway I broke all the sharp edges on all the Internal Parts, did some touch up Re-bluing and smoothed out everything and gave everything a nice polished finish and put it back together. It also got a new Safety Button like the others I use.

Probably going to go with my Fully Rifled 18" bbl. on this gun to start. I might pick up another Vent Rib Barrel that I can Rem Choke and Port and Lengthen the Forcing Cone on, like was done to the Monkey Berg. Got the Magpul Furniture this morning (just love Sunday Deliveries during the Christmas Season!) I only could get a set of Gray ones, as all the others were out of stock, but I am looking at painting them some kind of Dark OD Green. Wanted to do Air Dry Cera-Kote but it is just too expensive for a job like this. Maybe I can go with a 2 part Polyurethane from one of the Auto Paint Stores. I need less than a 1/2 Pint to do the job. We'll see?

More to come.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 12-17-2023 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 12-17-2023, 12:05 PM
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Old 12-25-2023, 3:52 PM
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So I used Krylon Camouflage Flat OD Green and am in between coats as I write this. So far it looks like the color I wanted. This paint is supposed to stick to plastic really well, but only time will tell. Probably going to do about 3 light coats. It says it's on there for good after 1 week so I will probably hang it up in the Heater Closet in the house since it is being used a lot right now and is above outside temps.






Internally this gun was in good shape, but I went extra heavy on all the edge breaks on the internal parts and so far it runs pretty smoothly. Will see how good it is after a hundred or so shots fired thru it.



Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 12-28-2023 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 01-20-2024, 3:03 PM
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Forgot to post a pic of the finished gun it came out nice and will get to shoot it soon.

These pics were taken before the Sling was installed and the Velcro Side Saddle as well. Also the gun got the big Remington Recoil Pad so it's a cream puff to shoot!

Randy



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File Type: jpg IMG_2502.jpg (85.3 KB, 42 views)
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Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
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www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
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Old 01-27-2024, 11:37 AM
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I had the dubious privilege of using a shotgun to open awkward doors, and closely interact with individuals whilst in the military. When the military gives you something they tend to be quite fussy about their kit and don't like soldiers to modify stuff [too much so that the unit armorer complains].

This one was one of mine that I built post-military. The only difference is that I added a magazine extension to this one to allow a couple of extra cartridges to be squeezed in. The, more or less, standard mods. are: big button safety; hi-viz, slippier shell follower, and some modded Hogue furniture. The Hogue stuff is modded with the addition of an inset sling plate from an old HK G3. To mount the plate a hole is carefully cut, the plate dropped in with some epoxy around the edges, and some allen bolts thru the holes. We used to do the mod before Magpul started making their shotty stocks with the side mounted sling mount - I'm sure they borrowed the idea. Nowadays the favorite furniture combination is a Magpul stock and a Hogue forend.

To break in a shotty and make it smoother to use you sit a recruit in the corner of the armory and tell him to rack the action a couple of thousand times.....works a treat.

Side mounted shell holders work fine on the range for a gentlemanly shoot, or if hoiking the shotty out of the back of a vehicle for rapid engagement. However, when carrying and using for any time, and slinging it over your back the sidemount hits you perfectly on the spine when running, or moving along. I just used a cartridge belt, or a small dump pouch to carry shells.

Courses in the US, indeed, I got to know the old Saffer Louis Awerbuck (RIP mate) quite well, and have done Rob Haught's excellent class too.

Here ya go, slightly modded 590 A1.





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Old 01-30-2024, 10:10 AM
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That one looks like it will work.

Teh Idea of the Velcro Receiver mounted Side Saddle is so that it can be quickly removed and or replaced.

My House gun has one on it all the time as it is a grab and go "Defensive Weapon" with a specific use in mind. If I have pants on, there is two more velcro strips (6 rounds a piece) laying right next to the gun I can grab and take with me.

There is no Sling on that gun as it sits because it in not going to be carried anywhere.

If in a class the Sling is mounted so I can carry the gun Cross Body. However I don't have the Side Saddle on the gun unless we are doing "Select Slug Drills" where I need to grab a round quickly.

My 3 gun set up is no Sling and no Side Saddle and I wear a vest with 3 6 Round CA Competition Shell Holders and a Dump Bag.

Earlier this month I did a 3 Gun Shoot where the Shotgun Stage was 25 targets long !

I started with 6 in the gun and quickly knocked down 2 poppers and 2 swingers, and two more Clays.

Then I proceeded to do 20 Port Loads ( I missed one target) to clean the rest of the stage. Last shot was a slug thru a 3" hole in a plate 25 yards away!

I ran that stage in 2 minutes and 7 seconds! Split times were 4.9 seconds per shot. Single loading the gun was much faster than trying to load the magazine with 5 rounds 4 times to get thru the stage.

Pretty proud of that run. I beat everyone but two young Gamers with Benelli's with 15 round Magazines. I used the "Monkeyberg" for that stage.

Randy
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__________________
Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 01-30-2024 at 10:15 AM..
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