Beware of buyer/seller

[beaton]

Originally Posted by DB>

Get copies of the DROS, and any shipping/tracking information proving "chain of custody" from seller to buyer. PayPal should have notified you of a CC dispute AKA a "charge back" being filed, and you have a time to respond with FACTS proving the receipt by the buyer. Hopefully you are still within that response window and providing proof that the "buyer" received what they paid for will keep the "dispute" open with some chance you aren't screwed. TIME is critical in responding.

If the card holder is different from the actual buyer, you also need to prove the relationship (i.e., if he used the wife's card with HER name on it, and SHE says she didn't order it, you're in the tough position of showing he was an authorized user on HER card, or at least had "easy access" to use the card that the cardholder knew or should have known about).

You're in a tough spot, the CC company/bank will ALWAYS "protect" their "customer", unless you have solid proof showing the cardholder is making a false claim (and fraudsters assume you won't take the time or trouble to defend a false "charge back" claim).

PayPal will ALWAYS put you in the position of defending any CC fraud claim, except in VERY limited circumstances (such as an ebay transaction where there is a strong electronic trail, and even in those you are still presumed "guilty" while they investigate). Sometimes, if you are a long time user, and the amount is not too much, they will step up to "cover" the exposure while it's being resolved/investigated.

Hope this will help you get this resolved, and that you are still within the response window - if you've let that pass, sometimes a call to Paypal can get things re-opened, but don't count on it. Depending on the amount involved and the documentation you can provide, PayPal can also decide a "no fault" and cover you as a courtesy (again, don't count on it, but at higher levels of customer support they do have options for "good customers" that are being screwed through no fault of their own).

I appreciate all that and yes we did get notified of a dispute, the lgs provided the delivery DROS and we passed it on to PayPal. They initially said that would be enough because it’s proof he received (signature/finger print). Then fast forward over a month and we get an email from PayPal that the cc company is siding with their customer because we didn’t provide proof the item was ever shipped to their customer. Of course it wasn’t shipped, we all understand that but it’s a case of incompetence and a lack of PayPal or the cc company caring enough to understand and communicate at a higher level. They literally have proof via signature and fingerprint on a dated legal document and they are saying it’s not enough. Because the claim was opened by him with his cc company PayPal won’t help. They also won’t tell us what financial institution his cc is through so we have no way of going to them directly. All they say is talk to the buyer but what do you do when the buyer goes dark? I’ve already tracked down his home address so that we can serve him for small claims but is just a lot of bs to be put through all because of what appears to be a very dishonest buyer. I’m still planning to get in touch with both local le and DOJ assuming I don’t hear back from him soon. Maybe I’m an idiot but I’m still holding out hope that it’s a big misunderstanding and he’ll set things straight.

[beaton]

Originally Posted by sfe187

Like DB have said, try to fight it with PayPal with proof and see what happens. When I looked your buyer's history here, its interesting he is out of Elk Grove but will also posts "I'll take it" on handgun ads for Los Angeles and San Diego too. Maybe he travels maybe not. He was logged in yesterday. In this case I would 100% put a negative feedback so the rest of the members will know this incident as not everyone reads this beware thread. tracking him down is not hard, all depends on what course of action you want out of it. Yeah this sucks, hate to see a member gets ripped off cash and gun. it pisses me off actually.

How do I put negative feedback when the deal is several months old and last time I tried I got a message about the transaction being too old for a feedback rating?

[sfe187]

Originally Posted by beaton

How do I put negative feedback when the deal is several months old and last time I tried I got a message about the transaction being too old for a feedback rating?

I wasn't aware you can't leave a feedback because the transaction was too old (several months). If that's the case, I would contact a Mod for assistance.

[Garv]

For our legal guys:

Is this a situation where the gun can be reported as stolen?

(I would wait for a lack of resolution, but then report.)

[Motor Man]

PayPal sometimes makes mistakes. I responded to a dispute a few years ago where the buyer of motorcycle parts claimed they were never received. I provided the delivery info from USPS. PayPal then sided with the buyer anyway, telling me I hadn't responded to the dispute notification. I called PayPal and questioned their decision. They then saw that I had, in fact, responded with the proof and reversed their decision. Try contacting PayPal to question their decision if you haven't done so already.

[beaton]

Originally Posted by Motor Man

PayPal sometimes makes mistakes. I responded to a dispute a few years ago where the buyer of motorcycle parts claimed they were never received. I provided the delivery info from USPS. PayPal then sided with the buyer anyway, telling me I hadn't responded to the dispute notification. I called PayPal and questioned their decision. They then saw that I had, in fact, responded with the proof and reversed their decision. Try contacting PayPal to question their decision if you haven't done so already.

Thank you for the suggestion, we have spoken with PayPal multiple times and because the dispute came from the cc side and not theirs it appears they are content being lazy. Their representatives actually agree we’re being screwed but said there’s nothing they can do. They can’t do anything but we sure can, our account will be closed once this is resolved however that works out. I will also not be using them for a new business I’ve started despite planning to before all this. In the end they will lose more from failing to help us than we will be hurt by not ever using their service again. As far as reporting the firearm stolen, the county sheriff recommended speaking with DOJ which I’ll be doing soon, and I’ll also be going to his local police department. The officers I’ve spoken to thus far were sympathetic but felt it was more of a civil matter since the initial transaction was valid and then he reneged. They’ve told me DOJ might be willing to go take possession pending a resolution but that is tbd.

[code_blue]

Originally Posted by Caller #10

Back in Feb 2019 I posted a negative iTrader rating for Tegulife and just today he’s back with hate mail PMs during the middle of the night. At the time he hit me up with venting PMs on here, they were childish, I told him to “grow up and own his actions” and he stopped. But now, 4 months later, he’s back with name calling PMs (again childish), and upped the ante to include racial slurs!

Yes, I’ve contacted the mods but posting here as well to ask : Anyone else experience anything like this?

Just block him

[Elgindy25]

I posted a wtb add for a glock 36, this guy texts me telling me for $400, he will ship the g36 TOO MY DOORSTEP and that he has an FFL and can send to me, i know thats false because handguns must ship to FFLs, i dont know his user name here as he did not pm me here. Anyone else get texts from this pathetic scammer?

[DB>]

Originally Posted by Garv

For our legal guys:

Is this a situation where the gun can be reported as stolen?

(I would wait for a lack of resolution, but then report.)

Interesting angle... I'm sure it's just petty theft, which might be ignored depending on the agency, but never hurts to try. I'm guessing they will take a "stolen" firearm more serious than they would some other innocuous item. Obviously provide LE with the serial #, and a good written summary of what happened.

Theft is theft, regardless of how it was accomplished. if Paypal goes back to the "buyer's" CC with a police report, the tune might rapidly change.

A second approach would be to file a mail fraud complaint - presuming you shipped via US Mail and followed all the rules for shipping firearms, that might well result in black helicopters visiting the guys neighborhood (kidding... maybe), or at least some USPS investigators.

Not all "theft" is conducted the same way, and you have the chain of custody showing delivery, and now a claim that the charge was fraudulent... which is false.

More than one way to skin the proverbial cat...

[FMJ510]

Scammer used a license photo of Dennis Whitaker (a honest Oregon FFL) to try to close deal on C&R Mauser HSc he sent photos of. Would only communicate by text from (408) 868-3856.

Looked up and called the FFL in the photo and he had sent a photo of his FFL to try to close a deal. Scammer has been using it ever since.

[Lertie32]

Originally Posted by beaton

SSick02- Bought a handgun from me via PayPal and then told his cc company that he never received it. LGS confirmed via copy of delivered DROS that he picked up after he was delayed. PayPal now is threatening to put me in collections because he still won’t tell his cc company the charge was valid. He’s had the TRP full rail for over 2 months and is trying to make me use law enforcement/civil intervention to not end up in collections. Won’t reply to any messages and has his money and the firearm. Sellers Beware, Buyers for that matter too. He might be selling a gun he never paid for.

In my old freelance business, I had almost the same situation happen with PayPal and a client’s (non-firearm) purchase... PayPal is AWFUL!!!!
PayPal seems to take easy route of just bullying and billing the little guy instead of properly handling disputes w/big credit card companies.
Luckily, I’d quickly transferred the $ before they tried to take it (over $10K), but they charged me for it, trashed my credit w/reporting it as my bad debt, etc. Despite having documentation proof (invoices, shipping/delivery tickets, & emails) out the wazoo, it was going to be a longer & hard fight. In hindsight, I wish that I didn’t give up & let PayPal (& the deadbeat client) get away with it, and I hope that you fight & prevail. Good luck!!


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[Elgindy25]

This guy is a true waste of time and air, cancelled on me at the last second, literally were supposed to meet up and he was going to buy my glock 30 at north county shooting center in san marcos. Texts me 5 minutes beforehand telling me his wife threw a fit ir whatever. Why not get her permission first if its needed!

Dont trust this guy unless he pays you upfront first!.

His number is (760) 557-9911) and supposedly lives in vista! Spread the word so other sellers dont fall for his bull****!

[Saym14]

Fabalon
Joined August 2019
Zero posts
Zero feedback

What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.

[RHSth4]

Just a new guy. Cut him some slack seems friendly enough.

Originally Posted by Saym14

Fabalon
Joined August 2019
Zero posts
Zero feedback

What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.

[Saym14]

Originally Posted by RHSth4

Just a new guy. Cut him some slack seems friendly enough.

True, sounds very friendly… Almost too friendly like those messages you get from Africa asking you to take $6 million !

Most new guys At least post a couple stupid questions… I’m sure I have

[RHSth4]

Or he see's how bad people get eaten alive on here and doesnt want to be one of those guys.

Originally Posted by Saym14

True, sounds very friendly… Almost too friendly like those messages you get from Africa asking you to take $6 million !

Most new guys At least post a couple stupid questions… I’m sure I have

[siznarf]

Originally Posted by Saym14

Fabalon
Joined August 2019
Zero posts
Zero feedback

What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabalon
Hello,

Interested in those VP9s you're selling. There's a shop local to us which also has one for PPT, but if it is sold by next week, I'd be interested in picking up one of yours. You wouldn't happen to have pictures available?

Thanks,
Fred

Me: Yes I can provide pictures let me know if you do not get the one in your local LGS and we can see if we can make a deal

Fred:
My LGS ended selling it. May I request pics of your beauts? I do work the next couple of days but if you're free the 15th and I'd be willing to take it off your hands.

Am I reading this wrong? I fail to see Fred's fault

[RHSth4]

That's how I read it just somebody being polite on their intentions.

Originally Posted by siznarf

Am I reading this wrong? I fail to see Fred's fault

[Saym14]

I guess I am probably just overly paranoid… Turns out he seems to be a real guy

[siznarf]

Originally Posted by Saym14

I guess I am probably just overly paranoid… Turns out he seems to be a real guy

Glad it worked out!

[auffie.hk]

Originally Posted by Packy14

did he flake on you? steal from you? if not, why are you a crybaby and badmouthing the dude. sheesh.

Saym14 posted a follow-up here:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...0#post23308500

All is OK.

[punjabi408]

Originally Posted by Caller #10

Back in Feb 2019 I posted a negative iTrader rating for Tegulife and just today he’s back with hate mail PMs during the middle of the night. At the time he hit me up with venting PMs on here, they were childish, I told him to “grow up and own his actions” and he stopped. But now, 4 months later, he’s back with name calling PMs (again childish), and upped the ante to include racial slurs!

Yes, I’ve contacted the mods but posting here as well to ask : Anyone else experience anything like this?

I came here to post about Caller #10 and its kind of funny he is complaining about the same thing about a different member. Maybe You should grow up also. People work and don't always get home tell late at night.

[SnowWolf]

has anyone ever bought from a member named Kevin Glock?

[Bigman54]

Wish they had a thread like this on some of the other Forums I've Joined.

[kuwok]

Joseph-(510) 962-7207 - OC area- on armslist selling a gen 5 glock 19 for $530.

He wanted to be paid via physical steam gift cards which is weird but ok.
I brought my friend with me to be at the Best Buy ready to buy the gift cards if the deal is good because I didn’t want to be stuck with gift cards that are non refundable (he has no idea I did this).

Arranged to meet at Turner’s in Chino at noon. Guy no shows, doesn’t answer his phone, no texts.
Texts me at 2PM asking if I’m there and he’s ready to make the deal and is “sorry” he was out delivering to another client and ran out of time.
Told him if he wants he can come to me, ammo bros in Riverside. He said he’ll show up if I send him pictures of receipts confirming the purchase of the gift cards first to which I said no, my friend will get the gift cards when we are in the store. He even tells me to stop wasting his time, really?!
Needless to say he stopped texting and the deal didn’t happen because I refused to buy $500 worth of gift cards before he’d even show up.


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[559BearDown]

Originally Posted by kuwok

Joseph-(510) 962-7207 - OC area- on armslist selling a gen 5 glock 19 for $530.

He wanted to be paid via physical steam gift cards which is weird but ok.
I brought my friend with me to be at the Best Buy ready to buy the gift cards if the deal is good because I didn’t want to be stuck with gift cards that are non refundable (he has no idea I did this).

Arranged to meet at Turner’s in Chino at noon. Guy no shows, doesn’t answer his phone, no texts.
Texts me at 2PM asking if I’m there and he’s ready to make the deal and is “sorry” he was out delivering to another client and ran out of time.
Told him if he wants he can come to me, ammo bros in Riverside. He said he’ll show up if I send him pictures of receipts confirming the purchase of the gift cards first to which I said no, my friend will get the gift cards when we are in the store. He even tells me to stop wasting his time, really?!
Needless to say he stopped texting and the deal didn’t happen because I refused to buy $500 worth of gift cards before he’d even show up.


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For future reference, walk away a lot sooner than that. Total scam written all over it 🤣

[kuwok]

I had to try. It only cost me a 30 minute drive. It might have worked out


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[nukuduku]

Originally Posted by kuwok

I had to try. It only cost me a 30 minute drive. It might have worked out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dealt with the same guy the other day. I had a feeling it was a scam so I asked him to send a few specific photos of the firearm. He said ok and then didn't respond. I never got the photos. He then asked me for steam gift cards as well and to meet. I told him I would meet him inside the gun store to do the exchange and he said he would only meet outside. I'm glad you didn't get scammed.

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[gregorym]

Hello,

Removed post. In hindsight, I think the seller and I simply misunderstood each other.

[Hungsolo]

Beware of seller username Glck2018- we have been working on a time and place to meetup for like 2 weeks. He just no showed me and won’t respond to my texts after I drove over 100 miles 1 way to meet him. His number is +1 (661) 234-8753

[ajshuck1988]

cj @ law was provided my PayPal link and coincidentally the account had then been accessed unauthorized adding an address of

1000 S Fremont ave
Alhambra, CA 91803
United States

And a credit card ending in 1401


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[Ruffo3]

Beware of franbee1 who provided me with an email garyhosmer.south@gmail.com in response to my WTB ad. After email communication with seller, phone numbers were exchanged and I ended up speaking to a male with an apparent Nigerian foreign accent on a bad phone connection....All too suspicious.... Just seemed off. Further google research reveals franbee1 is a scammer.

[woodscustomguns]

I wanted to inform you of a seller that currently refusing to return my money. We agreed on a price for his parts kit, I sent him a money order and after he received it he told me he sold it to cheaply and was going to return my money. Multiple messages later and he is still avoiding paying my money back. His user name is "pancakes go". I also have is real name and address since I made a money order out to him. I wanted to warn you about his activity's to hopefully prevent anyone else having to got through what I have. At this point I am not sure if I even will get my money back but I am still planning on filing a police report.

Gabriel Gonzalez

7808 Camino Raposa
San Diego, CA 92122

(760) 456-5679‬

[Philinsocal]

Originally Posted by Lertie32

In my old freelance business, I had almost the same situation happen with PayPal and a client’s (non-firearm) purchase... PayPal is AWFUL!!!!
PayPal seems to take easy route of just bullying and billing the little guy instead of properly handling disputes w/big credit card companies.
Luckily, I’d quickly transferred the $ before they tried to take it (over $10K), but they charged me for it, trashed my credit w/reporting it as my bad debt, etc. Despite having documentation proof (invoices, shipping/delivery tickets, & emails) out the wazoo, it was going to be a longer & hard fight. In hindsight, I wish that I didn’t give up & let PayPal (& the deadbeat client) get away with it, and I hope that you fight & prevail. Good luck!!


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In this case, it isn't actually Paypal that is the issue but rather the backing credit card that the purchaser used. The credit card company, especially if it is American Express, always sides with the purchaser. Appealing the decision is nearly impossible. I run an on-line business and have a fair amount of experience with this. Paypal is actually fairly reasonable in their judgements; credit card companies are not.

I have had instances where the tracking shows a package has been delivered but the customer claims they did not receive it. If this charge-back was through Paypal, the tracking would be enough for me to win the case. If the charge-back was instead through the credit card company, I would lose 100% of the time.

[rghouse]

Be advised there is a low-life posing as a one "Donald Mcginty", trying to sell firearms to ship after payment via paypal or zelle. He has a legit gmail address and drivers license for this person but it is not him.

I am sure the scheme could be used with any ID/fake ID. The man claimed he does not use social media and that is why there is no feedback scores etc. from online marketplaces. The proof he provides is a picture with the gun and drivers license together. I finally got him on the phone and he has what I would characterize as a very thick Asian accent.

[Garv]

Donald McGinty is a fine Asian name.

Did he contact you from your home email in your user profile?

[rghouse]

Both. First by a now banned user "taurusking1", directing me to email our mate Donnie. The conversation ensued from there...

[dJfq9G4EDiR]

Originally Posted by rghouse

Be advised there is a low-life posing as a one "Donald Mcginty", trying to sell firearms to ship after payment via paypal or zelle. He has a legit gmail address and drivers license for this person but it is not him.

I am sure the scheme could be used with any ID/fake ID. The man claimed he does not use social media and that is why there is no feedback scores etc. from online marketplaces. The proof he provides is a picture with the gun and drivers license together. I finally got him on the phone and he has what I would characterize as a very thick Asian accent.

The same person has a new account, vbrass1.

Sent me the following:

Hello contact Donald in San Diego he has sig 229 legion for sale... donaldmcginty816@gmail.com

[rghouse]

^^The email address is new, didn’t have the 816 before. Glad I posted something.

[Riflemen]

I actually posted about this guy last week