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  #1  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:39 PM
californialawsucks californialawsucks is offline
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Default Minishells noise level? For HD situations.

Are minishells quieter than 2 3/4” full power shells? Are they still loud as hell thus rendering the difference inconsequential?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:48 PM
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They’re quieter for sure, but still not hearing safe within an indoor setting.
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Romeo_alpha01 View Post
They’re quieter for sure, but still not hearing safe within an indoor setting.
Quieter than a 9mm?
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2019, 5:23 AM
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when in a shooting situation the brain does not recognize noise , you will not actually hear it . If it moves ,shoot it again
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Old 11-07-2019, 5:37 AM
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I wouldn't rely on mini shells for HD, go big or go home.
They only cycle reliably in particular shotguns, no bueno.
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2019, 6:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M76 View Post
I wouldn't rely on mini shells for HD, go big or go home.
They only cycle reliably in particular shotguns, no bueno.
And oddly I found the mini shells made the KSG much more reliable. Perfect combination of two niche products.

The minishells are very mild in sound in my opinion. Almost sounds like a 380.
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2019, 8:28 AM
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I use XL shells
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2019, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by r8dr rider View Post
I use XL shells
Quicker follow up, higher capacity, and less noise with minishells vs obvious advantages for full size.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2019, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
when in a shooting situation the brain does not recognize noise , you will not actually hear it . If it moves ,shoot it again
True, but it will still damage your hearing.
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Old 11-07-2019, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M76 View Post
I wouldn't rely on mini shells for HD, go big or go home.
They only cycle reliably in particular shotguns, no bueno.

The cycling issues are widely known. However, some shotguns handle the rounds better than others. Also, modifications are available, but that presents a problem if you want to quickly change to a full sized shell. Be sure to try them on your shotgun extensively before relying on them in a life or death situation.
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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For HD, one might concern themselves with projectile size (shot caliber, not necessarily shotshell caliber) and projectile velocity.

Do minishell ballistics measure up?
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
For HD, one might concern themselves with projectile size (shot caliber, not necessarily shotshell caliber) and projectile velocity.

Do minishell ballistics measure up?
7 pellets of #4 buck(.24”) and 4 pellets of #1 buck(.3”) at 1200 FPS.

00 buck is .33”. Typically about 9 pellets in a 2 3/4” shell at 1350 FPS.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:19 AM
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First session of firing minis went perfect. No issues. Every subsequent session has seen cycling issues. Usually stacked rounds that are difficult to extract. Not a simple situation, definitely a deal-breaker for home defense.

Couple of rounds more not worth the maybe it won't factor.

Still experimenting.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith View Post
First session of firing minis went perfect. No issues. Every subsequent session has seen cycling issues. Usually stacked rounds that are difficult to extract. Not a simple situation, definitely a deal-breaker for home defense.

Couple of rounds more not worth the maybe it won't factor.

Still experimenting.
Out of which gun?
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:33 AM
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A ks7 with 11 shells would be awesome at only 26.1” overall length and 6 lbs(hopefully minishells would offset recoil some). If it could run mini-shells properly of course.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2019, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
californialawsucks

7 pellets of #4 buck(.24”) and 4 pellets of #1 buck(.3”) at 1200 FPS.
Oh, no kidding. Thanks (I could have looked. I had posted a rhetorical question. Yeah, that’s it. Rhetorical...).



Quote:
00 buck is .33”. Typically about 9 pellets in a 2 3/4” shell at 1350 FPS.
Most standard double-aught loads, typically, yes, with reduced recoil loads typically traveling 1150.

John Farnham on the subject of shotgun defense suggests that we avoid the slower buck loads and opt for the more potent speeds.

Too, Hornady offers an eight-pellet double-aught to the tune of 1600 fps...

Boom.
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith View Post
First session of firing minis went perfect. No issues. Every subsequent session has seen cycling issues. Usually stacked rounds that are difficult to extract. Not a simple situation, definitely a deal-breaker for home defense.

Couple of rounds more not worth the maybe it won't factor.

Still experimenting.

A sound decision. Curious though. What shotgun were you using. Mossbergs tend to do better than Rems
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
Oh, no kidding. Thanks (I could have looked. I had posted a rhetorical question. Yeah, that’s it. Rhetorical...).





Most standard double-aught loads, typically, yes, with reduced recoil loads typically traveling 1150.

John Farnham on the subject of shotgun defense suggests that we avoid the slower buck loads and opt for the more potent speeds.

Too, Hornady offers an eight-pellet double-aught to the tune of 1600 fps...

Boom.
Not sure how fast a follow up shot would be with the 1600 FPS stuff lol.
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2019, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtlaw View Post
A sound decision. Curious though. What shotgun were you using. Mossbergs tend to do better than Rems
You can get a little gadget for Mossberg pumps that clip into the feed port that improves the feeding.

I wonder if they feed through a IWI Tavor? You can probably fit 20 or 25 shells in that thing.
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Old 11-07-2019, 1:43 PM
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Nothing beats Federal Flight Control 00 Buckshot or even #4 Buckshot for HD IMO.
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2019, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r8dr rider View Post
I use XL shells
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
Nothing beats Federal Flight Control 00 Buckshot or even #4 Buckshot for HD IMO.
You are great, guys, i envy your experience. How often do you do it and could you please tell how they perform on various intruders. Were you be able to stop 250LB male with the first shot or you had to repeat? How many times? What about 200LB males? 170LB females?
Did you compare it to other shells? Did you have to use your bayonet to finish the intruder when using other shells?

Asking only because i do not have shotgun gunfight experience, only M16 and Galil, but it is a different animal. I expect a shotgun to be more potent on humans. Please share


....

Last edited by Boarhuntor; 11-07-2019 at 4:08 PM..
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2019, 9:16 PM
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You are in a life-or-death struggle and you're worried about hearing damage? C'mon!

There is something called "auditory exclusion" where your brain shuts out everything not necessary for you to process in times of great stress. It's like how everything slows down during an auto accident.

Believe me, you will barely be aware of any gunshot sounds. I was on the recieving end of artillery once and all I remember hearing was the sound of my own heartbeat.

In a fight, worry more about having enough stopping power, wimpy mini shells aren't going to do it. Use something designed to put down 2-legged threats. I suggest Federal reduced recoil buckshot, it's what the FBI use and they have not reported any failures to stop with them.
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2019, 7:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
when in a shooting situation the brain does not recognize noise , you will not actually hear it . If it moves ,shoot it again
I have experienced that. Caveman brain takes over.
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M76 View Post
I wouldn't rely on mini shells for HD, go big or go home.
They only cycle reliably in particular shotguns, no bueno.
Yep. And keep some spares nearby.
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Old 11-08-2019, 4:54 PM
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The mini shells also recoil ALOT less so if you're the kind of guy who uses the kick of a pump to cycle the gun at the peak of recoil so you're ready to go bang again as soon as you're back on target, it will throw your style off.

But if you're the fire, get back on target, cycle, fire, kind of guy, it might work as long as it feeds reliably.

It will be great in a SxS!
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Old 11-08-2019, 6:24 PM
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maybe a .410, Buds CA compliant list...












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Old 11-08-2019, 6:35 PM
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^^^or 20 gauge if sound/recoil is a concern^^^
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  #28  
Old 11-08-2019, 7:32 PM
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when in a shooting situation the brain does not recognize noise , you will not actually hear it . If it moves ,shoot it again
^this. Read "on combat" by col grossman. The body shuts off the gunshot. It's so pronounced a lot of cops think their gun malfunctions because they don't hear it fire.
Apparently the same happens for hunters (ask how many hunters wear earpro), but I can't confirm such.
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Old 11-08-2019, 7:37 PM
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The eardrums don't shut anything off. They just rupture, or the small bones just fracture. "Brain shutting off" has nothing to do with it.

I first hunted over 50 years ago. Of all the other hunters I ever met, none of them, including me, ever shot at an animal inside a house.
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Old 11-09-2019, 6:52 PM
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The eardrums don't shut anything off. They just rupture, or the small bones just fracture. "Brain shutting off" has nothing to do with it.

I first hunted over 50 years ago. Of all the other hunters I ever met, none of them, including me, ever shot at an animal inside a house.
I suggest you read the book. It's well documented, there is no loss of hearing no ringing in the ears, no known damage.

It's actually not known how, it's not a function of the brain shutting it off, there's a physiological response in the ear that somehow shuts out the sound and prevents damage.
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Old 11-09-2019, 7:19 PM
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For those that asked, Dickinson, marine (I like stainless) tactical from Big 5. So cheap, had to pull the trigger. Assume it's made in Turkey, though it hasn't been one. Never a problem until using the minis.
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Old 11-09-2019, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
For HD, one might concern themselves with projectile size (shot caliber, not necessarily shotshell caliber) and projectile velocity.

Do minishell ballistics measure up?
My post from another thread about minis:

Aguila mini buckshot has a payload of (7)- 4 buck and (4) - 1 buck at 1200 fps and has 892 ft lbs of energy. Payload weight is 279 grains.

Aguila mini slugs sends a 7/8 oz slug at 1250 fps and has 1222 ft lbs of energy.

Federal mini buckshot has a payload of (15) - 4 buck at 1200 fps and has 991 ft lbs of energy. Payload weight of 310 grains.

Federal mini slugs sends a 1oz slug at 1200 fps and has 1398 ft lbs of energy.



Their ballistics appear to be more than practical for HD and out outclass most handgun an even some rifle calibers.
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Old 11-09-2019, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TFA777 View Post
I suggest you read the book. It's well documented, there is no loss of hearing no ringing in the ears, no known damage.

It's actually not known how, it's not a function of the brain shutting it off, there's a physiological response in the ear that somehow shuts out the sound and prevents damage.
What's more is the recoil also is perceived as quite muted. On the firing range, I'm very aware of the recoil from my 40S&W. When I had an intruder in the house, I didn't sense the recoil at all -- gone.
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Old 11-09-2019, 9:16 PM
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Shotguns are relatively quiet for what they are, but still pretty damn loud.

That said, one thing to remember is that tinnitus is a repetitive stress injury. That's why rock stars and roadies end up with it more than soldiers do. Taking a couple of shots in a home defense scenario is going to make your ears ring for a while for sure, but it almost certainly won't really give you tinnitus. You'd need to shoot without earpro hundreds of times to do that.
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Old 11-10-2019, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca

My post from another thread about minis:

Aguila mini buckshot has a payload of (7)- 4 buck and (4) - 1 buck at 1200 fps and has 892 ft lbs of energy. Payload weight is 279 grains.

Aguila mini slugs sends a 7/8 oz slug at 1250 fps and has 1222 ft lbs of energy.

Federal mini buckshot has a payload of (15) - 4 buck at 1200 fps and has 991 ft lbs of energy. Payload weight of 310 grains.

Federal mini slugs sends a 1oz slug at 1200 fps and has 1398 ft lbs of energy.


Their ballistics appear to be more than practical for HD and out outclass most handgun an even some rifle calibers.

Thank you.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You can get a little gadget for Mossberg pumps that clip into the feed port that improves the feeding.

I wonder if they feed through a IWI Tavor? You can probably fit 20 or 25 shells in that thing.
I just got the OpSol II clip/bumper thing for my Maverick 88 security - now it holds 12+1 of the mini shells. I just got some of the Federal 15 pellet #4 buck, but I have shot the Aguila mini buck. I’d rate the sound like a handgun, or a light practice load (still loud as hell, like any supersonic burst of gunpowder and lead).
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Old 11-10-2019, 2:51 PM
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Noise be damned when your life is at stake.

Remington 12 Gauge 3-1/2" 00 Buckshot pushing 18 Pellets
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