Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by steadyrock

Update regarding Metrolink trains in SoCal. Still no love. Also I noticed last week that DHS and TSA are running baggage searches and dogs at some stations now.

From the Metrolink Customer Service dept, dated 1/30/2015:
" Please know that, with the exception of peace officers wearing a Class “A” uniform, riders are not permitted to carry firearms on Metrolink trains or at train stations. "

Its not illegal, LTC holders are exempt from the prohibition.

[steadyrock]

Originally Posted by mej16489

Its not illegal, LTC holders are exempt from the prohibition.

There is an important difference between illegal and prohibited. If you're saying there is a specific exemption [i]in the Metrolink policy[/] for CCW holders, I'd be quite interested to see it as my question to them was very explicit that I had a CCW. If you're just saying that it's not illegal and all they can do is ask me to get off, you're probably right. But you try being stuck in Buena Park at 630 in the morning, 20 miles from work and 30 miles from home with no way to get to either location. I'll pass.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by steadyrock

Update regarding Metrolink trains in SoCal. Still no love. Also I noticed last week that DHS and TSA are running baggage searches and dogs at some stations now.

From the Metrolink Customer Service dept, dated 1/30/2015:
" Please know that, with the exception of peace officers wearing a Class “A” uniform, riders are not permitted to carry firearms on Metrolink trains or at train stations. "

Did metrolink cite CA PC for their regulation?

PC 171.7 looks like the general authority, and (c)(2), as noted above, exempts LTC holders.

Getting them to understand that may be a chore ...

[steadyrock]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Did metrolink cite CA PC for their regulation?

PC 171.7 looks like the general authority, and (c)(2), as noted above, exempts LTC holders.

Getting them to understand that may be a chore ...

No PC cited, just the general statement as I quoted verbatim. It may be significant that this reply differs from the reply I got last June, which also included armed guards with a guard card. I do get the feeling that the customer service personnel aren't fully educated, and I can't find any policies posted on their website.

So, I appreciate the clarity but does this PC also mean that it would be unlawful for a public transit authority such as Metrolink to have a policy prohibiting CCW?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by steadyrock

No PC cited, just the general statement as I quoted verbatim. It may be significant that this reply differs from the reply I got last June, which also included armed guards with a guard card. I do get the feeling that the customer service personnel aren't fully educated, and I can't find any policies posted on their website.

So, I appreciate the clarity but does this PC also mean that it would be unlawful for a public transit authority such as Metrolink to have a policy prohibiting CCW?

I think it should be possible for them to be prevented from enforcing it. But that runs right up against 'talk to a Real Lawyer'.

[Rastoff]

I just learned something. Apparently there was a ruling by a district court in Colorado that modifies the current law governing carry on a USPS parking lot.

As I understand it, and have been teaching it, you cannot carry in a Post Office or on grounds owned by the Post Office to include the parking lot. However, I just discovered this case: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=2006&as_vis=1 Bonidy v. USPS.

Does this mean anyone can park in a USPS parking lot and lock their gun in the car? Or does this just apply to Colorado?

Here's a link to a news article about it: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/us/guns-post-office/

[Librarian]

Bonidy is on appeal to the 10th Circuit. See also http://michellawyers.com/bonidy-v-usps-appeal/ -- oral arguments last October (2014).

I don't think we can yet use it for anything practical in California.

[Rastoff]

OK, I was thinking it might be something like that. I will continue as before.

[lelush]

Does a public library count as a government building in relation to government building CCW restrictions?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by lelush

Does a public library count as a government building in relation to government building CCW restrictions?

It can be. 171b (c)

(c) As used in this section, “state or local public building” means a building that meets all of the following criteria:

(1) It is a building or part of a building owned or leased by the state or local government, if state or local public employees are regularly present for the purposes of performing their official duties. A state or local public building includes, but is not limited to, a building that contains a courtroom.

(2) It is not a building or facility, or a part thereof, that is referred to in Section 171c, 171d, 626.9, 626.95, or 626.10 of this code, or in Section 18544 of the Elections Code.

(3) It is a building not regularly used, and not intended to be used, by state or local employees as a place of residence.

But there are multi-purpose buildings, and sometimes parts of libraries are used for 171b-type meetings

(a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part 1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section 11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:

(1) Any firearm.

[Rastoff]

You quoted 171b (a), but you have to include the whole aspect of the law. It goes on to paragraph b:

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(3) A person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant
to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title
4 of Part 6.

So, unless it's a federal library, with a posting saying guns are not allowed, and staffed with federal employees, it's OK to carry there as long as you have a valid CCW (license to carry a concealed firearm).

[lelush]

Thanks for both your replies and assistance, they are actually both useful.

To give more context because the department that issues the license can attach more terms, which while you can't be arrested over it can lead to license revocation the terms I am looking at are here.

http://ocsd.org/gov/sheriff/about/in.../ccw/terms.asp

8.) f) and h)

f) Possession of a firearm at any city, county, state, or federal building where prohibited by law,

h) Possession of a firearm at any other location where firearms are normally prohibited by law,

Note h says "normally prohibited"

It references "prohibited by law" which may make the latter applicable, unless it is trying to nullify the ccw exception.

Maybe I am looking too much into it, but do want to make sure.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

You quoted 171b (a), but you have to include the whole aspect of the law. It goes on to paragraph b:


So, unless it's a federal library, with a posting saying guns are not allowed, and staffed with federal employees, it's OK to carry there as long as you have a valid CCW (license to carry a concealed firearm).

Ah, thanks Rastoff. You're quite right. I must have been more tired last night than I realized.

[Rastoff]

lelush,
I'm not a lawyer. The best advice I can give is to read the law yourself.
PC 26150-26255 cover the license to carry.
PC 171b covers carry in a state building. PC 171b(b)(3) is the CCW exemption.

Read these laws and see what you see.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

PC 171(b) covers carry in a state building. PC 171(b)(b)(3) is the CCW exemption.

Just a polite correction, that should read as PC 171b and PC 171b(b)(3)

171(b) doesn't exist (Penal Code 171, section b)
Whereas Penal Code 171b does exist.

[lelush]

Yep, you guys were very knowledgable and helpful to give me more information and guide me to legal references. Thanks for your assistance, it was appreciated.

I see those items and it would be clear if the OC Sheriff CCW license terms didn't seem to want to restrict those with terms like "normally prohibited" and such. I doubt even many lawyers would be familiar enough to give a for sure answer....

Maybe another OC CCW holder has an answer to that question, if any of you guys know any active members that can be messaged about it.

I will write to the department and see their answer as well, if I get a clear reply I will post it here to assist others if anyone else ever has the questions and has a permit from the OC Sheriff.

[IRISH50]

Just glad we can get them !!!

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by mej16489

Just a polite correction, that should read as PC 171b and PC 171b(b)(3)

171(b) doesn't exist (Penal Code 171, section b)
Whereas Penal Code 171b does exist.

Got it. I've corrected my post. Thanks for the lesson. Yes, when it comes to the law, it pays to be specific.

[KWalkerM]

can anyone comment on National Forest Offices? I would assume that it is a no-go even with a LTC since it is federal.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by KWalkerM

can anyone comment on National Forest Offices? I would assume that it is a no-go even with a LTC since it is federal.

I would expect federal employees to be 'regularly present' at a Nation Forest Office. Thus, if all entrance are posted as 'no guns', then carry would be illegal.

[Dvrjon]

National Forest Rules: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf

and this: http://cucamongawilderness.org/ca-fi...nd-the-forest/

#2 - National Forest Details:
•LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
•LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
•Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas")
•Shooting is prohibited on or across roads or bodies of water ("prohibited areas")
•Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information ("prohibited areas")
•LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640)
•UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen while hunting/fishing and while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
•UOC is legal for licensed hunters while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366)
•CA CCW/LTC permit holders may LCC in anywhere in National Forest areas except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted)).

U.S.C. 18 Section 930: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
/snip/
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
/snip/
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

[Bullwhip55]

What about sporting events, At&t Park. Most likely not needed during the baseball game, but getting to and from is another matter. What does BART have to say about CCW's.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Bullwhip55

What about sporting events, At&t Park. Most likely not needed during the baseball game, but getting to and from is another matter. What does BART have to say about CCW's.

BART says nothing. I suppose they have not gotten around to it.

I don't know if the AT&T staff is good at it yet, but they are supposed to be wanding patrons as they enter, and MLB wants the teams to ban firearms and other weapons.

[Bullwhip55]

Thanks for the help...

[Larrylee186]

So I just jumped on this page and wanted to ask if CCW holders are allowed to carry in the Ventura Casino. I don't think its Indian reservations. Does anyone know?

[Rastoff]

Larrylee186,
The comprehensive list is in the OP. Is that casino listed there?

I should add, just because you can do something doesn't make it a wise decision.

[Larrylee186]

Yea good point.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Larrylee186

So I just jumped on this page and wanted to ask if CCW holders are allowed to carry in the Ventura Casino. I don't think its Indian reservations. Does anyone know?

I'm guessing they serve alcohol at the tables.

Probably not the best place to frequent for long hours while carrying under an LTC.

[HRDLEDR]

The list on page one says permit holders are exempt from school zones, however was that recently changed to where we cannot anymore?

[faris1984]

Originally Posted by jb7706

626.9(L) contains the exemption for 12050 license holders. CCW is exempt from Gun Free Zone laws.

exempt from school ground or 1000 feet from the school or both?.
I'm new to CCW and got my license yesterday.
Thanks

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by HRDLEDR

The list on page one says permit holders are exempt from school zones, however was that recently changed to where we cannot anymore?

Originally Posted by faris1984

exempt from school ground or 1000 feet from the school or both?.
I'm new to CCW and got my license yesterday.
Thanks

Current exemption is for GFSZ and school grounds. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gu...nes#Exemptions

SB707, currently in Cal Legislature, would remove the school grounds exemption. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1045405

[KingChiron]

^ beat me to the post

[HRDLEDR]

Ok. So laws have not changed yet? And if the bill passes then we will only be prohibited from school grounds, not the 1000 feet. Correct?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by HRDLEDR

Ok. So laws have not changed yet? And if the bill passes then we will only be prohibited from school grounds, not the 1000 feet. Correct?

Yes.

If the bill passes, should take effect 1 Jan 2016.

[HRDLEDR]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Yes.

If the bill passes, should take effect 1 Jan 2016.

Thanks

[Mithrandir13]

Typical Peoples Republik of Californiastan to try and remove the GFSZ exemption for CCW'ers... afterall.. there are sooooo many problems this would solve!!

I hate california... I will leave as soon as I can!
.
.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Don't go to Ohio. Their law is pretty similar.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir13

Typical Peoples Republik of Californiastan to try and remove the GFSZ exemption for CCW'ers... afterall.. there are sooooo many problems this would solve!!

I hate california... I will leave as soon as I can!.

They are not trying to remove the Gun Free School Zone exemption. They are trying to remove the exemption which allows CCW carry ON school grounds. The GFSZ would still be exempt for CCW.

[Old_Bald_Guy]

Don't go to Louisiana either. Entire GFSZ off limits.

I'll list a few more for you, Mithrandir13, when I get the time. Maybe give you a little data to include along with the parroted nicknames for California.

[HRDLEDR]

"Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]"

These are restricted areas to carry. Would I be correct in assuming that I can carry beyond the metal detectors when I have jury duty or need to visit the sheriffs office (it is in the courthouse)?