Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

[hoffmang]

I've had good CA instructors tell me that you can't have an unloaded handgun and ammunition for that handgun separately in the same locked container even without an LTC. I piped up on that to tell them that CHP and the PC say differently and a I got equivocating. Follow the law and what's on your permit. Everything else is, at most, a reason for your issuing agency to capriciously revoke your permit (until SCOTUS clarifies you have a right to it.)

-Gene

[harbinger007]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

I've had good CA instructors tell me that you can't have an unloaded handgun and ammunition for that handgun separately in the same locked container even without an LTC. I piped up on that to tell them that CHP and the PC say differently and a I got equivocating. Follow the law and what's on your permit. Everything else is, at most, a reason for your issuing agency to capriciously revoke your permit (until SCOTUS clarifies you have a right to it.)

-Gene

Unfortunately, it's not very easy to always know what the law is so that's why this thread is so necessary and helpful. Post #1 pretty much lets us know what the laws are.

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

Everything else is, at most, a reason for your issuing agency to capriciously revoke your permit (until SCOTUS clarifies you have a right to it.)

-Gene

Looking forward to that day, among many others.

[timmytoast916]

I may have missed where someone has asked this already, but is concealed carry allowed in an establishment that serves alcohol? Examples being a restaurant or bar/pub/saloon...

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by timmytoast916

I may have missed where someone has asked this already, but is concealed carry allowed in an establishment that serves alcohol? Examples being a restaurant or bar/pub/saloon...

The PC is silent on carrying while drinking. If your license has a no drinking/no bars while carrying then you are bound by that.

My personal rule of thumb is if one is required to be over 21 to be there then me and my guns will be absent.

[timmytoast916]

Thanks for the info!

[Tlc.norcal]

So clearly: can I carry wth a LTC within the city limits of San Francisco.

Teresa

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Tlc.norcal

So clearly: can I carry wth a LTC within the city limits of San Francisco.

Teresa

YES

That's what

California LTC are state licenses, issued by Sheriffs and some police chiefs. The concealed versions (almost all of them) are valid, in general, throughout the state. The open-carry versions (almost none are issued) are valid only in the county where issued.

says.

[chief916]

GReat write up thank you

[WeiseGuy]

So if I read the private property/business portion correctly,

I can carry a firearm with my CCW at my place of employment whether they give me permission or not, but you should be courteous to their wishes?

Is there any link to legislation on this that I can show my HR?

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by WeiseGuy

So if I read the private property/business portion correctly,

I can carry a firearm with my CCW at my place of employment whether they give me permission or not, but you should be courteous to their wishes?

Is there any link to legislation on this that I can show my HR?

You are not going to find what you are asking for. Think of it this way: I want to sleep until noon on Sunday's. Where is the PC that says I can? There is none. If the law does not say you can't then you can.

Your CA issued LTC is valid anywhere in CA. There are a few places that PC and other government code says you can't carry. Other than that you are "legal" to carry. You may choose to carry at work. You cannot be convicted for carrying there, you have broken no law assuming you are not working in one of the restricted places. If you are discovered/outed they may choose to fire you. That is an administrative thing between you and your employer. It's no different than a student carrying at a state university.

[WeiseGuy]

Originally Posted by jb7706

You are not going to find what you are asking for. Think of it this way: I want to sleep until noon on Sunday's. Where is the PC that says I can? There is none. If the law does not say you can't then you can.

Your CA issued LTC is valid anywhere in CA. There are a few places that PC and other government code says you can't carry. Other than that you are "legal" to carry. You may choose to carry at work. You cannot be convicted for carrying there, you have broken no law assuming you are not working in one of the restricted places. If you are discovered/outed they may choose to fire you. That is an administrative thing between you and your employer. It's no different than a student carrying at a state university.

Thank you for that, great insight and makes complete sense.

[Sakiri]

Do we have a list on what each county's restrictions are? I assume each is different to a degree and I found nothing on the sheriffs office website.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Sakiri

Do we have a list on what each county's restrictions are? I assume each is different to a degree and I found nothing on the sheriffs office website.

Check with the county web site for the county code.

Generally the weirdest has been Sacramento, with parks.

[Sakiri]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Check with the county web site for the county code.

Generally the weirdest has been Sacramento, with parks.

Humboldt does not show this information. Thats why I asked. Id have to either get the application and look, or get the permit itself, which Im hesitant to atm because I *really* cannot afford to tie up around 300 in fees and such to have much of it unrefundable if my near non existant good cause is rejected. I likely cannot phrase "terrified of drunken college students and bike hippies plus poor response time" well enough to get one.

When it takes them 4 hours to break up a 50 attendee party full of underage drinking and screaming girls, i dont trust APD to show up if Im robbed at gunpoint.

Was more curious at this stage. I keep hearing Humboldt is darn near shall issue, but i dont handle money, work on the bad side of town or have restraining orders out so im intimidated by needing a "good cause". Hate this state sometimes.

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Check with the county web site for the county code.

Generally the weirdest has been Sacramento, with parks.

What park restriction are you referring to? City of Sac LTC? There is nothing like that on my Sac SO license.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by jb7706

What park restriction are you referring to? City of Sac LTC? There is nothing like that on my Sac SO license.

Not on your license - in county code (and city, maybe; or maybe it's city only?).

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Not on your license - in county code (and city, maybe; or maybe it's city only?).

Oh, that. Yeah, it's county code. Pretty common in CA from the little research I have done on it. I have seen it in several city ordinances as well.

[CenterX]

Originally Posted by jb7706

Oh, that. Yeah, it's county code. Pretty common in CA from the little research I have done on it. I have seen it in several city ordinances as well.

So is this a binding code? Where does preemption fit?
Seems like it is similar to SFO saying no CCW/LTC in the county of SFO, and it isn't binding just cause they say so.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by CenterX

So is this a binding code? Where does preemption fit?
Seems like it is similar to SFO saying no CCW/LTC in the county of SFO, and it isn't binding just cause they say so.

They can't say that for the whole city.

However, it is still not successfully challenged that some places prohibit firearms in parks, with no exception for LTC - see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=490930, a thread about a suit against San Mateo. Similar laws are in place for other counties.

I suspect that exception is missing mostly because until recently CCW was pretty rare, and some of the CCW holders were 'connected' and not worried about such trivia.

[acemeister990]

I just wanna say you guys are awesome and make everything easy to understand. So way to go! And keep it up.

[srusso]

Can i carry at a public school?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by srusso

Can i carry at a public school?

Right there in the first post

School Zones and School Campuses/Property

California Penal Code 626.9(l) exempts holders of CA LTC from the restrictions

(l) This section does not apply to
...
a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of
Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6

Note that this is only the firearms listed on the license.

If you work at a school, school rules apply at the cost of employer discipline.

[srusso]

Thank you...........

[Natasha]

So I know the question has been asked a couple times, but I need the advice with my certain circumstance. I am currently attending a tech school, which (I am assuming) is a private college. I signed a document stating that I would abide by the regulations of the school, the most important to me being no weapons on school property. Because I signed this document, am I not allowed to carry on campus or am I still exempt because I have a CCW? I feel that the document hinders my right to carry on campus and also the fact that it is not a "public school". Any advice would be much appreciated!!

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by Natasha

So I know the question has been asked a couple times, but I need the advice with my certain circumstance. I am currently attending a tech school, which (I am assuming) is a private college. I signed a document stating that I would abide by the regulations of the school, the most important to me being no weapons on school property. Because I signed this document, am I not allowed to carry on campus or am I still exempt because I have a CCW? I feel that the document hinders my right to carry on campus and also the fact that it is not a "public school". Any advice would be much appreciated!!

You are subject to administrative discipline if it comes to light. You are at risk of trespassing charges if they ask you to leave and fail to do so.

[jdben92883]

At my daughter's elementary school where I volunteer I was told my firearm would be most unwelcome on the campus. I know California Penal Code 626.9(l) well. My CCW 16-hour course instructor made a specific reference to that part of the Penal Code and said LTCs were no longer exempt on school grounds. So my school admin is adamantly opposed to concealed carry and my course instructor has told me it's not even legal.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by jdben92883

At my daughter's elementary school where I volunteer I was told my firearm would be most unwelcome on the campus. I know California Penal Code 626.9(l) well. My CCW 16-hour course instructor made a specific reference to that part of the Penal Code and said LTCs were no longer exempt on school grounds. So my school admin is adamantly opposed to concealed carry and my course instructor has told me it's not even legal.

Simply put, unless the restriction is printed on your license, your instructor is wrong.

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by jdben92883

At my daughter's elementary school where I volunteer I was told my firearm would be most unwelcome on the campus. I know California Penal Code 626.9(l) well. My CCW 16-hour course instructor made a specific reference to that part of the Penal Code and said LTCs were no longer exempt on school grounds. So my school admin is adamantly opposed to concealed carry and my course instructor has told me it's not even legal.

California Penal Code 626.9(l) is still law of the land. Your instructor is giving you bad information, though I would love to see the cite he was referring to. As was stated if it's not a restriction printed on your license you are 100% legal. The school admin's opinion is not relevant. Keep it concealed and you are 100% legal. What they don't know won't hurt them, and the less they know of your carry status the less drama you will have.

[BonnieB]

This is a bit of a side issue, but someone mentioned the weirdity of Sacramento Parks, so here's a bit of info.

Regarding parks in Sacramento, the situation is complex, to say the least. The City of Sacramento is only part of the County of Sacramento, San Francisco City/County, for instance. So there are City parks and County parks and State Parks. Sacramento City rules apply in City Parks.

Then there are State parks, such as the State Capitol, Capitol Park and Cal Expo, which are governed under State Park rules, and with notable exceptions for the State Capitol and Capitol park, which are no-carry zones. I wouldn't even stand on the sidewalk by Capitol Park, if I had a carry license. This is very important for demonstrators at the State House ! The Federal Courthouse is just across the street and there are State buildings all over downtown that are iffy for carry.

Then there's Cal Expo State Fairgrounds, which is physically in the City, but is part of the State Parks system. Cal Expo even has its own separate year round police force, not city, not county, not CHP. Separate. Cal Expo is a no-carry zone.

One interesting side note is that the Governor's Mansion (historic) is a no carry zone as are Legislator's homes. (Does that mean that Legislators can't carry in their homes? Interesting).

Those of us who live here tend to have an automatic sense of whether we are in City or County land. For me, it's easy, because I come from back east where you can drive less than a mile and be in a different city with different rules. For others or those who aren't familiar with the complexities of Sacramento geography, be very careful, very aware of where you are and err on the side of caution, if you want to keep your firearms.

Someday, I'm gonna make a map of Sacramento County with the no-carry area's in red, but not today....

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by BonnieB

Regarding parks in Sacramento, the situation is complex, to say the least. The City of Sacramento is only part of the County of Sacramento, unlike LA City/County or San Francisco City/County, for instance.

As far as I know, San Francisco is the only city/county in California which share identical borders.

LA City and LA county most definitely do not share the same borders.

Then there's Cal Expo State Fairgrounds, which is physically in the City, but is part of the State Parks system. Cal Expo even has its own separate year round police force, not city, not county, not CHP. Separate. Cal Expo is a no-carry zone.

If Cal Expo is a State Park (I don't know if it is or not) then there is an exemption for Licensed concealed carry.

[SouperMan]

Originally Posted by mej16489

If Cal Expo is a State Park (I don't know if it is or not) then there is an exemption for Licensed concealed carry.

Cal-Expo has NO exemption for LTC holders; this was discussed awhile ago.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by SouperMan

Cal-Expo has NO exemption for LTC holders; this was discussed awhile ago.

Did you read that thread you linked? I think its pretty clear from that thread that the only prohibition of firearms at Cal Expo is via an unlawful regulation.

Please keep in mind that this thread is explicitly about the places where one cannot legally carry; it does not include locations where they will likely prevent you from carrying even when its legal. i.e. Staples Center, Court, etc.

[SouperMan]

Originally Posted by mej16489

Did you read that thread you linked? I think its pretty clear from that thread that the only prohibition of firearms at Cal Expo is via an unlawful regulation.

Please keep in mind that this thread is explicitly about the places where one cannot legally carry; it does not include locations where they will likely prevent you from carrying even when its legal. i.e. Staples Center, Court, etc.

OK. Maybe I should have clarified that Cal-Expo is using a unlawful restriction that flies against State law to enforce a prohibition at Cal-Expo, but until such time that the Calguns Foundation can work on fixing unlawful carry prohibitions, Cal-Expo is de facto no-carry.

I understand that there are places where one cannot legally carry. Currently there has not been a court challenge (that I know of) that is contesting the legality of what Cal-Expo is doing. Until then, unless anyone wants to be a test case, it's still a law that is enforced until it is validly challenged.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by SouperMan

OK. Maybe I should have clarified that Cal-Expo is using a unlawful restriction that flies against State law to enforce a prohibition at Cal-Expo, but until such time that the Calguns Foundation can work on fixing unlawful carry prohibitions, Cal-Expo is de facto no-carry.

I understand that there are places where one cannot legally carry. Currently there has not been a court challenge (that I know of) that is contesting the legality of what Cal-Expo is doing. Until then, unless anyone wants to be a test case, it's still a law that is enforced until it is validly challenged.

Once we have shall-issue in CA, most of these types of unlawful restrictions will fall like dominoes. Right now, no-one is willing to jeopardize their license and sue for the violation because it can be revoked on a whim.

[America's Least Wanted]

Does "common carrier" include govt run like BART and buses? I think those are technically "corporations" of some sort.

Wouldn't the "unless written permission" have made Alcatraz cruises a 'no go' even without any "policy" expressed by operators?

Aren't taxis "common carriers"?

[eventhorizons]

I spent the day today getting empaneled on a jury in San Bernardino County.

The sign at the X-Ray security checkpoint said "...No Weapons per PC 171c, bla bla."

Now, based on the research here, I found that PC 171c exempts CCW holders from the prohibition. There are other courthouse restrictions, but those are separate items.

Being the smarta** that I am, I asked the lovely $15/hour rent-a-cop that was running the security station how she dealt with people that had CCWs.

Her first reaction was "What is a CCW?"

You can imagine how it went from there.

After I explained what a CCW was, her comment was "They ain't bringing no guns in here!"

Then she goes on to say "I'll be keeping my eyes on you!" (In a joking manner...but....!)

Now that I am empaneled I will be seeing her for about a week. Since I love to make people think and challenge them to reach higher levels, I'm thinking of bringing her a copy of the code sections with the relevant passages highlighted.

I also prefer to avoid drama, so I have no intention of trying to carry into the courthouse, but I really wish people would receive training on these matters.

[NorCalAthlete]

Has the PC been updated/changed in regard to consumption of alcohol for LTC holders while carrying? First post in this thread just says CA is silent on it, I'm hearing otherwise. Sheriff's office says no go, LEOs say good to go. Which is it?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Has the PC been updated/changed in regard to consumption of alcohol for LTC holders while carrying? First post in this thread just says CA is silent on it, I'm hearing otherwise. Sheriff's office says no go, LEOs say good to go. Which is it?

The law continues to be silent.

If the Sheriff wants to add that restriction printed on your LTC, that's within his power.

[Armsmaster270]

Originally Posted by jb7706

OK, SSA. Can you point to the regs? I think it would be good to be able to cite each of the exemptions now that I think of it.

Schools - 12050 licenses are exempt from 626.9 and the Fed equivalent. I'm wanting to stay at the state/fed level, individual counties muddy the water and seem to add to the ever growing pile of FUD. If it's not applicable to all CA CCW then let's ignore it for the purposes of this thread.

As a retired police officer with a CCW I cannot carry in the SSA office or the post office using my police ID and carry permit which is good nationwide but I can carry on some military bases.