Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

[Xeng]

Nvm got it!

[socal m1 shooter]

Originally Posted by orthikon

What about Long Beach and John Wayne?

A search of the Web site for Long Beach Airport didn't have any hits for weapons. Likewise, Long Beach Municipal Code (City of Long Beach owns and operates LGB). So, would it be incorrect to assume that Los Angeles County Law (which does not prohibit CCW in non-sterile areas of LAX) is also operational in non-sterile areas of LGB?

John Wayne Airport (SNA) is owned and operated by Orange County, and county code prohibits weapons on the airport property. I also called the OCSD station at John Wayne and was told the same. The relevant section of the code states:

Originally Posted by OC Municipal Code

Sec. 2-1-53. - Rules of conduct.
[...]
(i) No person, except peace officers, an authorized post office or Airport employee or a member of the armed forces of the United States on official duty, shall carry any weapon, explosive or flammable material on or about his person, openly or concealed, on the Airport without the written permission of the Airport Director. This Section shall not apply to persons carrying firearms in cases, broken down or unloaded when said firearms are being transported by air. For the purposes of this section, a weapon includes all those listed in California Penal Code Sections 12000-12654.

Originally Posted by vocoder

I've carried when picking up/dropping off at John Wayne several times in the last few months and haven't had any concerns.

Because concealed is concealed, right?

I'm not a lawyer, and I just want to use my CCW permit within the limits of the law, but in a different thread-- I can't recall, but it may have been peeled off from this thread-- the OP contains an indirect link to a legal brief which cites a couple of decisions:

• Great Western Shows, Inc., v. County of Los Angeles, (2002) 27 Cal.4th 853 [no preemption of ordinance banning gun and ammunition sales on county property];
• Nordyke v. King (2002) 27 Cal.4th 875 [no preemption of an ordinance banning possession of a firearm on specified county property]

I would be delighted if some of the lawyers here on CG would weigh in and explain this to me like I was five years old, but as I understand it, though state law trumps county/municipal code in general (meaning, counties and municipalities can't have more restrictive statutes than state law, unless state law provides specific latitude for them to do so), and a CCW is an exemption to State Penal Code, case law can inform/limit where a CCW applies. So the case law cited above is why Orange County can prohibit CCW by non-LEOs on John Wayne Airport Property, and on other county properties, as they wish.

Originally Posted by orthikon

On another note, I saw this sign posted at Craig Regional Park in Fullerton.

Penalty seems to be a fine or eviction, any repercussions to CCW license?

Again, not a lawyer, so I could be quite wrong, but Craig Park is a county park, and so I would think county law applies. County law says:

Originally Posted by OCCO

Sec. 2-5-237. - Firearms, weapons, fireworks, replica firearms.

No person shall have any fireworks, firearms, replica firearms, air gun, BB gun, paint ball gun, slingshot or bow or hunting arrow or any weapon in his possession or in his vehicle, other than in a closed trunk, storage compartment or other area separated from the passenger section of the vehicle, in a designated park, nor shall any person discharge any firearm, fireworks or weapon or display any replica firearm upon or into any designated park.
(Ord. No. 99-22, § 1, 8-31-99)

However, elsewhere on CG it has been stated it is legal for CCW permit holders to carry in county parks. I did ask a lawyer about this, and the gist of what I was told was, consider the big picture and the underlying facts. If you are a CCW permit holder, carrying in/on a county park, and have the unfortunate experience of having to legitimately use your concealed firearm (a "good" shoot), the DA will almost certainly be uninterested in charging you with any violation. However, if you have a bad shoot, the firearm violation will be the least of your concerns. Between those two extremes, concealed is concealed, so it would seem in Orange County, this sign can be ignored.

Originally Posted by Librarian

San Mateo County is San Mateo County, and even with that ruling, the lawyer said that "it is an unpublished opinion, and deals exclusively with the demurer. While the 9th opined on preemption, it leaves the case open for further challenges. Secondly, this was a case seeking declaratory relief. Not a case with a defendant asserting an affirmative defense of preemption."

Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise. But as others have observed, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise.

But as others have observed, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.

No, so far as has been challenged, CCW does NOT trump local laws. You're aware of San Mateo; if Gene Hoffman, a relatively wealthy and usually well-advised legal consumer, did not pursue that case, I'll suggest he and his lawyers did not see success at the end.

You're free to create a test case in your jurisdiction; I would not expect a positive-to-you result, but that's why there are lawyers and test cases.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise. But as others have observed, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.

Looking for lawyers on this?

While no fan of the Gifford’s Center, they provide a detailed analysis of the basics of preemption and implied preemption of firearms laws here, including this on CalGuns v. County of San Mateo.

In Calguns Foundation, Inc. v. County of San Mateo, 218 Cal. App. 4th 661 (Cal. Ct. App. 2013), the Court of Appeal rejected a preemption challenge to a San Mateo County ordinance prohibiting the possession and use of guns in the county’s parks and recreational areas. In reliance on Great Western and Nordyke the court found no conflict between the ordinance and state law, specifically, Penal Code section 26150 et seq. and Government Code section 53071. The court emphasized that the county ordinance, like the regulations in issue in those cases, was a land use restriction on county-owned property rather than a blanket prohibition on gun possession or use anywhere within the jurisdiction such as the San Francisco municipal ordinance found preempted in Fiscal.

And, if you wonder where their lawyers got that, here’s the Court of Appeal decision on CalGuns v. County of San Mateo.

[OCMatt]

Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by OCMatt

Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...

For John Wayne? No change to state law on the point.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by OCMatt

Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...

Originally Posted by Librarian

For John Wayne? No change to state law on the point.

And, there's no change to the county ordinance.

As noted in Post 402, above, Orange County Municipal Code 2-1-53 prohibits, with no exception for CCW, the carrying of firearms on the airport property, not just the sanitary areas:

ARTICLE 5. - AIRPORT OPERATIONS;
Sec. 2-1-53. - Rules of conduct.[...]
(i) No person, except peace officers, an authorized post office or airport employee or a member of the armed forces of the United States on official duty, shall carry any weapon, explosive or flammable material on or about his person, openly or concealed, on the Airport without the written permission of the Airport Director. This Section shall not apply to persons carrying firearms in cases, broken down or unloaded when said firearms are being transported by air. For the purposes of this section, a weapon includes all those listed in California Penal Code Sections 12000-12654.

Based on the Penal Code sections listed (12000 series), we know that this ordinance was on the books before the recodification of the Code in 2012.

This issue of CCW on airports has been batted around for years, and has never been conclusively (legal action to determine interpretation) decided. Although some contacts with some airport authorities have resulted in the enforcement agencies stating the CCW was good on the airport, outside sterilized areas, others have not.

There's additional background and discussion here.

[Kate]

So, it seems clear that one cannot legally carry while on SNA property.

But it seems like a capricious bar to set. (OK. Perhaps all gun laws in CA could be considered capricious, but this especially so. )

Say I am a pilot in Banning, with a valid CCW from Riverside County. Perhaps no need for a CCW in Banning, but now I want to pick up a friend at Flabob, in Rubidoux, where the Riverside CCW was probably intended for, and we go to SNA for lunch. The wheels touch down, and we have broken the law.

So, I have to specifically research every single airport I might land at? And based on this thread, such research is not simple.

I know. Someone is going to say, "Welcome to California" but this one sticks in my craw just a bit...

Geesh...

Kate

[Enc85]

Can any one give a few examples of “public venues” prohibited by my San Diego county ccw?

[JonDuncanSantaRosa]

Prohibited in Ca anywhere near a parking lot even for CCW . Can’t even drive with it up front in the seat and some say don’t even bring it if you’re dropping off , and it’s locked in the trunk. They will try to make it bad. You could be caught for something that you’re not doing in my eyes. They could try to make it worse if they wanted to. The laws are awful. No one is going to register their legal gun, go legally get a license, and then commit a horrible crime after telling the police about your CCW and your firearm— it kind of hurts me inside like we need to be governed heavily and even after we’re completely by the book and trying to follow all rules. It’s tough.


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[Librarian]

Originally Posted by JonDuncanSantaRosa

Prohibited in Ca anywhere near a parking lot even for CCW . Can’t even drive with it up front in the seat and some say don’t even bring it if you’re dropping off , and it’s locked in the trunk.

Sorry, what? Context, please.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Sorry, what? Context, please.

Bourbon....maybe Scotch?

[JonDuncanSantaRosa]

Sorry, the reply is in response to the question referring to landing at an airport and having a CCW on you and a firearm. In Ca, we are not allowed to have firearms anywhere near parking or drop off for airports. That was the question. Sorry for not understanding how to use this platform. Didn’t know I had to “quote.” Thanks.


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[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by JonDuncanSantaRosa

Sorry, the reply is in response to the question referring to landing at an airport and having a CCW on you and a firearm. In Ca, we are not allowed to have firearms anywhere near parking or drop off for airports. That was the question. I don’t drink bourbon or scotch though. I thought that the texts will read in a feed and you could scroll up to see what I was referring to. I am under the impression that if you were going to the airport, everything has to be completely unloaded and completely packed up, and not within reach. Just trying to help, and I’m sorry I’m a little bit new on these forums. No need for caustic or demeaning remarks here buds. Not the place for it. People are here to learn or to get help. Acting like a jerk makes no one feel good including yourself . And making fun of people online is the most keyboard warrior move I’ve ever seen in my life LOL Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The airport prohibitions encompass the “sterile” areas of the airport. Some counties or airport authorities post ordinances which prohibit firearms anywhere on the airport, which often include the parking lots or drop off/pick up areas. However, over the years, when individuals on this (and other) boards have made direct inquiries of the law enforcement agencies which cover those areas, the responses have come back as CCWs are ok up to the sterile areas.

Unless you’re an Air Marshall, about the only way you’re going to land with a CCW is if you’re flying private. In that case, it would probably be prudent to unload and encase the gun until you clear the ”air” side of the terminal and leave the sterile area.

Finally, a fine, single malt scotch generally improves the context of most things.

[OCEANCRITTER]

This is correct.

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[Librarian]

It should have been apparent that an airport parking area prohibition was a misinterpretation.

It's legal to fly with firearms (following TSA and airline rules). That requires that the firearms actually get to the counter to be checked in.

As to context, it's usually helpful to quote some or all of the post to which you are replying. So far as I can tell, there have been no "caustic or demeaning remarks" in this thread.

[JWD123]

I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by JWD123

I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1600914

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

Correct. 1/1/16 school carry is illegal by CCW holders.

First, I'd like to thank the community at large for holding an adult discussion. I'm really impressed that through out the 11 page thread, there is a high level of respect. No doubt, keeping the discussion focused and on point is no easy feat. Again, thank you to EVERYONE for keeping this what it's supposed to be.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see Schools (and my understanding is that this includes K-12 and colleges/universities) in the OP. But these are a no-go area correct? If my understanding is correct, and I understand that something else could have changed in the last 5 years, can the OP be updated?

My second question is on common carriers. I found this: "Under California law, a common carrier (also referred to as “carrier”) is a business entity, which offers to transport people or property from one location to another for profit. See California Civil Code § 2168." - clawfirmpc.com

In this thread, I've seen people reference "common carriers" as interstate or international transportation. So does the phrase in question have a different meaning when discussing LTC issues, has the definition changed, prior understanding incorrect, or is there something I'm missing?

Again, thanks for all that you do.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by mk2dave

First, I'd like to thank the community at large for holding an adult discussion. I'm really impressed that through out the 11 page thread, there is a high level of respect. No doubt, keeping the discussion focused and on point is no easy feat. Again, thank you to EVERYONE for keeping this what it's supposed to be.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see Schools (and my understanding is that this includes K-12 and colleges/universities) in the OP. But these are a no-go area correct? If my understanding is correct, and I understand that something else could have changed in the last 5 years, can the OP be updated?

My second question is on common carriers. I found this: "Under California law, a common carrier (also referred to as “carrier”) is a business entity, which offers to transport people or property from one location to another for profit. See California Civil Code § 2168." - clawfirmpc.com

In this thread, I've seen people reference "common carriers" as interstate or international transportation. So does the phrase in question have a different meaning when discussing LTC issues, has the definition changed, prior understanding incorrect, or is there something I'm missing?

Again, thanks for all that you do.

Um, the OP has

School Zones and School Campuses/Property

Because of SB707, the on-campus exemptions for CCW holders are removed from the Penal Code effective Jan 1, 2016.

CCW holders and their listed handguns have always been exempt from the 1000 foot rule, and remain exempt.

The common carrier thing has 2 considerations: Federal and State law. Fedlaw mostly applies to LTC for things like the ferries to Alcatraz and Catalina, and Amtrak. CA law would apply to public transportation agencies, but indirectly for LTC: such agencies are usually created with the authority to secure their properties as they see fit. So, it may take some digging to discover whether a particular agency has an established position. Some reports suggest that if one cannot find it documented, and one asks, subsequently such folks create a policy, and being California, the policy is adverse to LTC.

I have yet to hear about walk-through metal detectors or bag-check/patdown stations, so how they might think to enforce such a policy remains unclear.

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Um, the OP has

Sorry, I was only looking under the State Laws and Regulations, and I missed all the large red text.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by JWD123

I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]

Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...

You would have to encounter a judge who would allow it in the courthouse; I doubt there are any of those in CA.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...

You can try to do anything…once.

[umie76]

Originally Posted by Librarian

It should have been apparent that an airport parking area prohibition was a misinterpretation.

It's legal to fly with firearms (following TSA and airline rules). That requires that the firearms actually get to the counter to be checked in.

As to context, it's usually helpful to quote some or all of the post to which you are replying. So far as I can tell, there have been no "caustic or demeaning remarks" in this thread.

Seems to be a Catch-22 when it comes to the Sacramento Airport-

From https://sacramento.aero/smf/about/faq :

"I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Am I allowed to carry it inside Sacramento International Airport?"

"Sacramento International Airport is on county property and is subject to Sacramento County Code (SCC) ordinances. The SCC prohibits carrying, transportation, use or possession of dangerous weapons upon county grounds. Guns are considered a "dangerous weapon."

The prohibitions do not apply to law enforcement officers or county employees who are required to carry a weapon to perform county business."

So, I guess the 4 times I legally declared the firearm when traveling from SMF, including just crossing the parking lot / "grounds", I was technically in violation of County Code. I'm sure I have lots of company.

Think they'll ever amend the code ?

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by umie76

Seems to be a Catch-22 when it comes to the Sacramento Airport-

From https://sacramento.aero/smf/about/faq :

"I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Am I allowed to carry it inside Sacramento International Airport?"

"Sacramento International Airport is on county property and is subject to Sacramento County Code (SCC) ordinances. The SCC prohibits carrying, transportation, use or possession of dangerous weapons upon county grounds. Guns are considered a "dangerous weapon."

The prohibitions do not apply to law enforcement officers or county employees who are required to carry a weapon to perform county business."

So, I guess the 4 times I legally declared the firearm when traveling from SMF, including just crossing the parking lot / "grounds", I was technically in violation of County Code. I'm sure I have lots of company.

Think they'll ever amend the code ?

No. In fact, A few years ago, I had a long, frustrating email exchange on this subject with an official of the airport. His position was that traveling with unloaded firearms was ok since the feds allowed it (TSA, etc.). However, carry of a county licensed CCW firearm wasn’t allowed because the county ordinances didn’t allow it. I thought it was annoying, but pretty good, bureaucracy-speak.

[Rover60]

Anaheim Convention Center (Auto Show)- Go or no go?


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[Rover60]

Originally Posted by Rover60

Anaheim Convention Center (Auto Show)- Go or no go?


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Disregard. Did some googling and it looks like it’s a “no go”.


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[Totethemthangs85]

Anyone know if the cinopolis movie theaters have metal detectors or wand waivers? Anyone been able to carry successfully in their establishment?

[Mickeytnova]

Regarding San Diego, the Zoo is ok to ccw…

Sea World had a rent a cop with a wand. I played it safe and didn’t bring it.

I searched and didn’t find anything related to the zoo…


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[BarneyLongden]

How does SB 707 apply to private schools?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by BarneyLongden

How does SB 707 apply to private schools?

Same as public - PC 626.9 does not distinguish between the kinds to apply the law.

Why is a 2015 bill interesting in 2022?

[BarneyLongden]

"Why is a 2015 bill interesting in 2022?"

Because I am likely confused.

Just to clarify - If a person with a CCW permit drives onto any school parking lot with a handgun in the car that is not unloaded AND in a locked container they are in violation of the law?

[Rover60]

Anyone know If car show (la convention) is good to go? Went to the car show (OC) and was good to carry.


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[Librarian]

Originally Posted by BarneyLongden

Because I am likely confused.

Just to clarify - If a person with a CCW permit drives onto any school parking lot with a handgun in the car that is not unloaded AND in a locked container they are in violation of the law?

Correct; parking lot is 'school zone' subtype 'on the grounds'.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

...

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive,

or

within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

[ron70]

Originally Posted by Mickeytnova

Regarding San Diego, the Zoo is ok to ccw…

Sea World had a rent a cop with a wand. I played it safe and didn’t bring it.

I searched and didn’t find anything related to the zoo…


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I was at the SD Zoo 3 days ago, no metal detectors or someone with a wand.

[clb]

Time for a reboot, update, just saw Michelle's +1" Thick cal weapons law publication

[ezaircon4jc]

Went to Sea World on Monday, detectors and wands.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by clb

Time for a reboot, update, just saw Michelle's +1" Thick cal weapons law publication

Remember, Chuck's book fills the gap left when Machtinger stopped updating "How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail: What You Need to Know About the Law If You Own a Gun or Are Thinking of Buying One : California Edition".

Don't have any of my copies any more, but IIRC the paperback was about 1/2 inch thick. Lots more crap gun law since 2006.

[db556762]

Went to the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco this weekend in Golden Gate Park and can confirm that there are no security checks or metal detectors.