Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #401  
Old 09-07-2019, 7:58 PM
Xeng Xeng is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 366
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

Nvm got it!

Last edited by Xeng; 09-07-2019 at 8:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #402  
Old 09-14-2019, 5:32 PM
socal m1 shooter's Avatar
socal m1 shooter socal m1 shooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 1,076
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthikon View Post
What about Long Beach and John Wayne?
A search of the Web site for Long Beach Airport didn't have any hits for weapons. Likewise, Long Beach Municipal Code (City of Long Beach owns and operates LGB). So, would it be incorrect to assume that Los Angeles County Law (which does not prohibit CCW in non-sterile areas of LAX) is also operational in non-sterile areas of LGB?

John Wayne Airport (SNA) is owned and operated by Orange County, and county code prohibits weapons on the airport property. I also called the OCSD station at John Wayne and was told the same. The relevant section of the code states:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Municipal Code
Sec. 2-1-53. - Rules of conduct.
[...]
(i) No person, except peace officers, an authorized post office or Airport employee or a member of the armed forces of the United States on official duty, shall carry any weapon, explosive or flammable material on or about his person, openly or concealed, on the Airport without the written permission of the Airport Director. This Section shall not apply to persons carrying firearms in cases, broken down or unloaded when said firearms are being transported by air. For the purposes of this section, a weapon includes all those listed in California Penal Code Sections 12000-12654.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vocoder View Post
I've carried when picking up/dropping off at John Wayne several times in the last few months and haven't had any concerns.
Because concealed is concealed, right?

I'm not a lawyer, and I just want to use my CCW permit within the limits of the law, but in a different thread-- I can't recall, but it may have been peeled off from this thread-- the OP contains an indirect link to a legal brief which cites a couple of decisions:
  • Great Western Shows, Inc., v. County of Los Angeles, (2002) 27 Cal.4th 853 [no preemption of ordinance banning gun and ammunition sales on county property];
  • Nordyke v. King (2002) 27 Cal.4th 875 [no preemption of an ordinance banning possession of a firearm on specified county property]
I would be delighted if some of the lawyers here on CG would weigh in and explain this to me like I was five years old, but as I understand it, though state law trumps county/municipal code in general (meaning, counties and municipalities can't have more restrictive statutes than state law, unless state law provides specific latitude for them to do so), and a CCW is an exemption to State Penal Code, case law can inform/limit where a CCW applies. So the case law cited above is why Orange County can prohibit CCW by non-LEOs on John Wayne Airport Property, and on other county properties, as they wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthikon View Post
On another note, I saw this sign posted at Craig Regional Park in Fullerton.

Penalty seems to be a fine or eviction, any repercussions to CCW license?
Again, not a lawyer, so I could be quite wrong, but Craig Park is a county park, and so I would think county law applies. County law says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCO
Sec. 2-5-237. - Firearms, weapons, fireworks, replica firearms.

No person shall have any fireworks, firearms, replica firearms, air gun, BB gun, paint ball gun, slingshot or bow or hunting arrow or any weapon in his possession or in his vehicle, other than in a closed trunk, storage compartment or other area separated from the passenger section of the vehicle, in a designated park, nor shall any person discharge any firearm, fireworks or weapon or display any replica firearm upon or into any designated park.
(Ord. No. 99-22, § 1, 8-31-99)
However, elsewhere on CG it has been stated it is legal for CCW permit holders to carry in county parks. I did ask a lawyer about this, and the gist of what I was told was, consider the big picture and the underlying facts. If you are a CCW permit holder, carrying in/on a county park, and have the unfortunate experience of having to legitimately use your concealed firearm (a "good" shoot), the DA will almost certainly be uninterested in charging you with any violation. However, if you have a bad shoot, the firearm violation will be the least of your concerns. Between those two extremes, concealed is concealed, so it would seem in Orange County, this sign can be ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatevs09 View Post

Well, there's cgf v San Mateo County - see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=490930
San Mateo County is San Mateo County, and even with that ruling, the lawyer said that "it is an unpublished opinion, and deals exclusively with the demurer. While the 9th opined on preemption, it leaves the case open for further challenges. Secondly, this was a case seeking declaratory relief. Not a case with a defendant asserting an affirmative defense of preemption."

Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise. But as others have observed, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #403  
Old 09-14-2019, 7:19 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post

Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise.

But as others have observed
, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.
No, so far as has been challenged, CCW does NOT trump local laws. You're aware of San Mateo; if Gene Hoffman, a relatively wealthy and usually well-advised legal consumer, did not pursue that case, I'll suggest he and his lawyers did not see success at the end.

You're free to create a test case in your jurisdiction; I would not expect a positive-to-you result, but that's why there are lawyers and test cases.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #404  
Old 09-15-2019, 6:34 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
Now, the reason I came back to this thread was because I was curious about carry in a city park. So again-- I welcome lawyers here on CG to clarify-- as I understand it, my CCW, an exemption to the State Penal Code, trumps local ordinances, in the absence of case law that says otherwise. But as others have observed, this is a grey area, so I am thinking to err on the side of caution, and reluctantly leave my firearm at home, safely locked up.
Looking for lawyers on this?

While no fan of the Gifford’s Center, they provide a detailed analysis of the basics of preemption and implied preemption of firearms laws here, including this on CalGuns v. County of San Mateo.
Quote:
In Calguns Foundation, Inc. v. County of San Mateo, 218 Cal. App. 4th 661 (Cal. Ct. App. 2013), the Court of Appeal rejected a preemption challenge to a San Mateo County ordinance prohibiting the possession and use of guns in the county’s parks and recreational areas. In reliance on Great Western and Nordyke the court found no conflict between the ordinance and state law, specifically, Penal Code section 26150 et seq. and Government Code section 53071. The court emphasized that the county ordinance, like the regulations in issue in those cases, was a land use restriction on county-owned property rather than a blanket prohibition on gun possession or use anywhere within the jurisdiction such as the San Francisco municipal ordinance found preempted in Fiscal.
And, if you wonder where their lawyers got that, here’s the Court of Appeal decision on CalGuns v. County of San Mateo.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #405  
Old 10-14-2019, 9:23 PM
OCMatt OCMatt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Sterile area of airport

Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...
Reply With Quote
  #406  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:08 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMatt View Post
Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...
For John Wayne? No change to state law on the point.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #407  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:23 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMatt View Post
Can someone please define? I understood it to be anywhere up to / behind TSA Security. I just took my '4 hr' CCW renewal class this week and was told this has changed - can't carry anywhere on airport property, even dropping off spouse at airport? Not sure if that is true...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
For John Wayne? No change to state law on the point.
And, there's no change to the county ordinance.

As noted in Post 402, above, Orange County Municipal Code 2-1-53 prohibits, with no exception for CCW, the carrying of firearms on the airport property, not just the sanitary areas:
Quote:
ARTICLE 5. - AIRPORT OPERATIONS;
Sec. 2-1-53. - Rules of conduct.[...]
(i) No person, except peace officers, an authorized post office or airport employee or a member of the armed forces of the United States on official duty, shall carry any weapon, explosive or flammable material on or about his person, openly or concealed, on the Airport without the written permission of the Airport Director. This Section shall not apply to persons carrying firearms in cases, broken down or unloaded when said firearms are being transported by air. For the purposes of this section, a weapon includes all those listed in California Penal Code Sections 12000-12654.
Based on the Penal Code sections listed (12000 series), we know that this ordinance was on the books before the recodification of the Code in 2012.

This issue of CCW on airports has been batted around for years, and has never been conclusively (legal action to determine interpretation) decided. Although some contacts with some airport authorities have resulted in the enforcement agencies stating the CCW was good on the airport, outside sterilized areas, others have not.

There's additional background and discussion here.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."

Last edited by Dvrjon; 10-15-2019 at 11:37 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #408  
Old 11-04-2019, 4:06 PM
Kate Kate is offline
Why Change the Default?
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default If I am a pilot...

So, it seems clear that one cannot legally carry while on SNA property.

But it seems like a capricious bar to set. (OK. Perhaps all gun laws in CA could be considered capricious, but this especially so. )

Say I am a pilot in Banning, with a valid CCW from Riverside County. Perhaps no need for a CCW in Banning, but now I want to pick up a friend at Flabob, in Rubidoux, where the Riverside CCW was probably intended for, and we go to SNA for lunch. The wheels touch down, and we have broken the law.

So, I have to specifically research every single airport I might land at? And based on this thread, such research is not simple.

I know. Someone is going to say, "Welcome to California" but this one sticks in my craw just a bit...

Geesh...

Kate
Reply With Quote
  #409  
Old 01-01-2020, 6:57 PM
Enc85 Enc85 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Can any one give a few examples of “public venues” prohibited by my San Diego county ccw?
Reply With Quote
  #410  
Old 02-14-2020, 5:36 AM
JonDuncanSantaRosa JonDuncanSantaRosa is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 46
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Prohibited in Ca anywhere near a parking lot even for CCW . Can’t even drive with it up front in the seat and some say don’t even bring it if you’re dropping off , and it’s locked in the trunk. They will try to make it bad. You could be caught for something that you’re not doing in my eyes. They could try to make it worse if they wanted to. The laws are awful. No one is going to register their legal gun, go legally get a license, and then commit a horrible crime after telling the police about your CCW and your firearm— it kind of hurts me inside like we need to be governed heavily and even after we’re completely by the book and trying to follow all rules. It’s tough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #411  
Old 02-14-2020, 6:58 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDuncanSantaRosa View Post
Prohibited in Ca anywhere near a parking lot even for CCW . Can’t even drive with it up front in the seat and some say don’t even bring it if you’re dropping off , and it’s locked in the trunk.
Sorry, what? Context, please.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #412  
Old 02-14-2020, 7:15 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Sorry, what? Context, please.
Bourbon....maybe Scotch?
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #413  
Old 02-15-2020, 7:21 AM
JonDuncanSantaRosa JonDuncanSantaRosa is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 46
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list (Legalities)

Sorry, the reply is in response to the question referring to landing at an airport and having a CCW on you and a firearm. In Ca, we are not allowed to have firearms anywhere near parking or drop off for airports. That was the question. Sorry for not understanding how to use this platform. Didn’t know I had to “quote.” Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by JonDuncanSantaRosa; 02-15-2020 at 12:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #414  
Old 02-15-2020, 8:45 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDuncanSantaRosa View Post
Sorry, the reply is in response to the question referring to landing at an airport and having a CCW on you and a firearm. In Ca, we are not allowed to have firearms anywhere near parking or drop off for airports. That was the question. I don’t drink bourbon or scotch though. I thought that the texts will read in a feed and you could scroll up to see what I was referring to. I am under the impression that if you were going to the airport, everything has to be completely unloaded and completely packed up, and not within reach. Just trying to help, and I’m sorry I’m a little bit new on these forums. No need for caustic or demeaning remarks here buds. Not the place for it. People are here to learn or to get help. Acting like a jerk makes no one feel good including yourself . And making fun of people online is the most keyboard warrior move I’ve ever seen in my life LOL Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The airport prohibitions encompass the “sterile” areas of the airport. Some counties or airport authorities post ordinances which prohibit firearms anywhere on the airport, which often include the parking lots or drop off/pick up areas. However, over the years, when individuals on this (and other) boards have made direct inquiries of the law enforcement agencies which cover those areas, the responses have come back as CCWs are ok up to the sterile areas.

Unless you’re an Air Marshall, about the only way you’re going to land with a CCW is if you’re flying private. In that case, it would probably be prudent to unload and encase the gun until you clear the ”air” side of the terminal and leave the sterile area.

Finally, a fine, single malt scotch generally improves the context of most things.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #415  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:22 AM
OCEANCRITTER's Avatar
OCEANCRITTER OCEANCRITTER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 306
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

This is correct.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #416  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:40 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

It should have been apparent that an airport parking area prohibition was a misinterpretation.

It's legal to fly with firearms (following TSA and airline rules). That requires that the firearms actually get to the counter to be checked in.

As to context, it's usually helpful to quote some or all of the post to which you are replying. So far as I can tell, there have been no "caustic or demeaning remarks" in this thread.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 02-15-2020 at 11:44 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #417  
Old 04-13-2020, 6:34 PM
JWD123 JWD123 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 19
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]
Reply With Quote
  #418  
Old 04-13-2020, 6:48 PM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWD123 View Post
I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1600914
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #419  
Old 11-27-2021, 9:41 AM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 761
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jake View Post
Correct. 1/1/16 school carry is illegal by CCW holders.
First, I'd like to thank the community at large for holding an adult discussion. I'm really impressed that through out the 11 page thread, there is a high level of respect. No doubt, keeping the discussion focused and on point is no easy feat. Again, thank you to EVERYONE for keeping this what it's supposed to be.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see Schools (and my understanding is that this includes K-12 and colleges/universities) in the OP. But these are a no-go area correct? If my understanding is correct, and I understand that something else could have changed in the last 5 years, can the OP be updated?

My second question is on common carriers. I found this: "Under California law, a common carrier (also referred to as “carrier”) is a business entity, which offers to transport people or property from one location to another for profit. See California Civil Code § 2168." - clawfirmpc.com

In this thread, I've seen people reference "common carriers" as interstate or international transportation. So does the phrase in question have a different meaning when discussing LTC issues, has the definition changed, prior understanding incorrect, or is there something I'm missing?

Again, thanks for all that you do.
Reply With Quote
  #420  
Old 11-27-2021, 12:52 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2dave View Post
First, I'd like to thank the community at large for holding an adult discussion. I'm really impressed that through out the 11 page thread, there is a high level of respect. No doubt, keeping the discussion focused and on point is no easy feat. Again, thank you to EVERYONE for keeping this what it's supposed to be.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see Schools (and my understanding is that this includes K-12 and colleges/universities) in the OP. But these are a no-go area correct? If my understanding is correct, and I understand that something else could have changed in the last 5 years, can the OP be updated?

My second question is on common carriers. I found this: "Under California law, a common carrier (also referred to as “carrier”) is a business entity, which offers to transport people or property from one location to another for profit. See California Civil Code § 2168." - clawfirmpc.com

In this thread, I've seen people reference "common carriers" as interstate or international transportation. So does the phrase in question have a different meaning when discussing LTC issues, has the definition changed, prior understanding incorrect, or is there something I'm missing?

Again, thanks for all that you do.
Um, the OP has
Quote:
School Zones and School Campuses/Property

Because of SB707, the on-campus exemptions for CCW holders are removed from the Penal Code effective Jan 1, 2016.

CCW holders and their listed handguns have always been exempt from the 1000 foot rule, and remain exempt.
The common carrier thing has 2 considerations: Federal and State law. Fedlaw mostly applies to LTC for things like the ferries to Alcatraz and Catalina, and Amtrak. CA law would apply to public transportation agencies, but indirectly for LTC: such agencies are usually created with the authority to secure their properties as they see fit. So, it may take some digging to discover whether a particular agency has an established position. Some reports suggest that if one cannot find it documented, and one asks, subsequently such folks create a policy, and being California, the policy is adverse to LTC.

I have yet to hear about walk-through metal detectors or bag-check/patdown stations, so how they might think to enforce such a policy remains unclear.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 11-27-2021 at 12:54 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #421  
Old 11-28-2021, 8:22 AM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 761
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Um, the OP has
Sorry, I was only looking under the State Laws and Regulations, and I missed all the large red text.
Reply With Quote
  #422  
Old 12-05-2021, 7:45 PM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 598
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWD123 View Post
I apologize if this has already been covered in this forum as I did not read every post on the thread. My question is this. With the Government now recommending people wear masks in public to reduce virus spread, where does it leave CCW holders in regards to the last bullet point in the PC stating you are not allowed to carry when masked in public??

* State law/regulation:

*
o Courthouse when you are a party to an action pending before the court [PC 171b(b)(2)(B)]
o Family Law courts [depending on the presiding judge]
o Gun Shows [PC 12071.4] *OK to CCW if you have no ammo to fit the carry gun and have complied with other provisions in the PC. Once you have a paperweight you may conceal it at the gun show.
o While at a polling place during an election [California Elections Code Section 18544]
o While picketing [PC 12590]
o Sterile area of airports [PC 171.5]
o While masked so as to hide your identity, while on a public street or in a public place [PC 12040]
Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...
Reply With Quote
  #423  
Old 12-05-2021, 9:46 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...
You would have to encounter a judge who would allow it in the courthouse; I doubt there are any of those in CA.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #424  
Old 12-07-2021, 5:49 PM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Sounds like I can carry while on jury duty Not that I would...
You can try to do anything…once.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #425  
Old 02-08-2022, 2:42 PM
umie76's Avatar
umie76 umie76 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 173
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It should have been apparent that an airport parking area prohibition was a misinterpretation.

It's legal to fly with firearms (following TSA and airline rules). That requires that the firearms actually get to the counter to be checked in.

As to context, it's usually helpful to quote some or all of the post to which you are replying. So far as I can tell, there have been no "caustic or demeaning remarks" in this thread.
Seems to be a Catch-22 when it comes to the Sacramento Airport-

From https://sacramento.aero/smf/about/faq :

"I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Am I allowed to carry it inside Sacramento International Airport?"

"Sacramento International Airport is on county property and is subject to Sacramento County Code (SCC) ordinances. The SCC prohibits carrying, transportation, use or possession of dangerous weapons upon county grounds. Guns are considered a "dangerous weapon."

The prohibitions do not apply to law enforcement officers or county employees who are required to carry a weapon to perform county business."

So, I guess the 4 times I legally declared the firearm when traveling from SMF, including just crossing the parking lot / "grounds", I was technically in violation of County Code. I'm sure I have lots of company.

Think they'll ever amend the code ?
__________________
NRA Life Member ~ CRPA Member
Reply With Quote
  #426  
Old 02-11-2022, 7:04 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by umie76 View Post
Seems to be a Catch-22 when it comes to the Sacramento Airport-

From https://sacramento.aero/smf/about/faq :

"I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Am I allowed to carry it inside Sacramento International Airport?"

"Sacramento International Airport is on county property and is subject to Sacramento County Code (SCC) ordinances. The SCC prohibits carrying, transportation, use or possession of dangerous weapons upon county grounds. Guns are considered a "dangerous weapon."

The prohibitions do not apply to law enforcement officers or county employees who are required to carry a weapon to perform county business."

So, I guess the 4 times I legally declared the firearm when traveling from SMF, including just crossing the parking lot / "grounds", I was technically in violation of County Code. I'm sure I have lots of company.

Think they'll ever amend the code ?
No. In fact, A few years ago, I had a long, frustrating email exchange on this subject with an official of the airport. His position was that traveling with unloaded firearms was ok since the feds allowed it (TSA, etc.). However, carry of a county licensed CCW firearm wasn’t allowed because the county ordinances didn’t allow it. I thought it was annoying, but pretty good, bureaucracy-speak.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."

Last edited by Dvrjon; 02-11-2022 at 7:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #427  
Old 09-29-2022, 12:51 PM
Rover60's Avatar
Rover60 Rover60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 149
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anaheim Convention Center (Auto Show)- Go or no go?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #428  
Old 09-30-2022, 1:30 PM
Rover60's Avatar
Rover60 Rover60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 149
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover60 View Post
Anaheim Convention Center (Auto Show)- Go or no go?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Disregard. Did some googling and it looks like it’s a “no go”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #429  
Old 11-10-2022, 1:26 PM
Totethemthangs85 Totethemthangs85 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 7
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anyone know if the cinopolis movie theaters have metal detectors or wand waivers? Anyone been able to carry successfully in their establishment?
Reply With Quote
  #430  
Old 11-14-2022, 7:28 AM
Mickeytnova's Avatar
Mickeytnova Mickeytnova is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 91
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Regarding San Diego, the Zoo is ok to ccw…

Sea World had a rent a cop with a wand. I played it safe and didn’t bring it.

I searched and didn’t find anything related to the zoo…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #431  
Old 11-15-2022, 11:08 AM
BarneyLongden BarneyLongden is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 29
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

How does SB 707 apply to private schools?
Reply With Quote
  #432  
Old 11-15-2022, 11:56 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyLongden View Post
How does SB 707 apply to private schools?
Same as public - PC 626.9 does not distinguish between the kinds to apply the law.

Why is a 2015 bill interesting in 2022?
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #433  
Old 11-15-2022, 12:22 PM
BarneyLongden BarneyLongden is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 29
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
"Why is a 2015 bill interesting in 2022?"
Because I am likely confused.

Just to clarify - If a person with a CCW permit drives onto any school parking lot with a handgun in the car that is not unloaded AND in a locked container they are in violation of the law?
Reply With Quote
  #434  
Old 11-15-2022, 12:28 PM
Rover60's Avatar
Rover60 Rover60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: OC
Posts: 149
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anyone know If car show (la convention) is good to go? Went to the car show (OC) and was good to carry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #435  
Old 11-15-2022, 2:30 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyLongden View Post
Because I am likely confused.

Just to clarify - If a person with a CCW permit drives onto any school parking lot with a handgun in the car that is not unloaded AND in a locked container they are in violation of the law?
Correct; parking lot is 'school zone' subtype 'on the grounds'.
Quote:
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

...

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive,

or

within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #436  
Old 11-23-2022, 11:41 AM
ron70 ron70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 167
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickeytnova View Post
Regarding San Diego, the Zoo is ok to ccw…

Sea World had a rent a cop with a wand. I played it safe and didn’t bring it.

I searched and didn’t find anything related to the zoo…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was at the SD Zoo 3 days ago, no metal detectors or someone with a wand.
Reply With Quote
  #437  
Old 12-01-2022, 3:54 PM
clb's Avatar
clb clb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nannyfornia
Posts: 337
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Time for a reboot, update, just saw Michelle's +1" Thick cal weapons law publication
__________________
The lunatics ARE running the asylum.
Screw fotofukkit
Reply With Quote
  #438  
Old 12-14-2022, 8:02 AM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 598
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Went to Sea World on Monday, detectors and wands.
Reply With Quote
  #439  
Old 12-14-2022, 11:03 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
Time for a reboot, update, just saw Michelle's +1" Thick cal weapons law publication
Remember, Chuck's book fills the gap left when Machtinger stopped updating "How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail: What You Need to Know About the Law If You Own a Gun or Are Thinking of Buying One : California Edition".

Don't have any of my copies any more, but IIRC the paperback was about 1/2 inch thick. Lots more crap gun law since 2006.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #440  
Old 02-06-2023, 7:07 AM
db556762 db556762 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 119
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Went to the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco this weekend in Golden Gate Park and can confirm that there are no security checks or metal detectors.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:34 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy