carry in restaurants and common carriers

[Rickybillegas]

So, I just got my ccw permit and need to clarify where I can carry.

The permit application states that ccw is not permitted in establishments whose primary purpose is to sell or serve alcohol. I am presuming this means bars that only incidentally serves food. And excludes places like Applebees or other places that are primarily restaurants, however may have a bar section.
I often go to restaurants that have a bar section. I'll stay from the bar sections and stick to the dinning room. Of course no alcohol consumption while carrying. Is this everyone else's interpretation?

Also ccw not allowed in 'common carriers'. I presume this means buses, uber, trains, et?

[Squatch]

Depends on your state and issuing agency. For 100% clarity contact the officer in charge of your ccw.

But you are correct on restaurants. As for common carrier I've never heard of that. I've carried in a Uber before.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[MudCamper]

See this sticky thread:

Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list

Common carriers without written consent of the carrier is a federal law 18 USC § 922 (e)

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?....+Code+%3F+922

OK found a definition for "common carrier":

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/common_carrier

If true, then you are correct Rickybillegas, Uber would be no-go, without permission of the driver, unless they are considered a "private carrier". I will continue to research...

[MudCamper]

Edited.

OK after doing some reading I have found that many states and state courts have declared that Uber is a common carrier. Uber has been trying to fight this, claiming it's drivers are contractors and therefore private carriers, but they continue to lose ground.

But in California, Prop 22 won, which classified Uber drivers as "independent contractors". Does this mean they are "private carriers"?

[Rickybillegas]

Thanks MudCamper.

That's what I thought. I'm not about to try to get permission from the uber driver to carry a gun. I do take uber occasionally, so I guess I won't carry while riding. Now to figure out if I can have the firearm unloaded, locked in a bag and then re-rig when I get to my destination.

[Garand Hunter]

UHHH just go low profile and MIND your own business ! Unless you are definitely in danger/under threat on bodily danger. I am in a Constituttional carry state and still don't advertise !

Psalm 1

[MudCamper]

An article on concealedcarry.com:

https://www.concealedcarry.com/firea...rs-gun-policy/

Seems it is a gray area, where everyone is deciding for themselves, based on their own personal risk assessments.

[MudCamper]

So I'm going to change course just a bit here. I've never actually read 18 USC § 922 (e) and just assumed what others have said was true. Terrible mistake.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?....+Code+%3F+922

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

My reading of that means you cannot deliver it to common carriers for shipment. That's not the same thing as carrying it yourself. That code section does not prohibit carry, as I read it.

Even if you read the second half after the semicolon as prohibitive, it only applies "in interstate or foreign commerce". When I take an Uber, or a taxi, or train, or ferry, it's not usually "in interstate or foreign commerce".

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Rickybillegas

So, I just got my ccw permit and need to clarify where I can carry.

The permit application states that ccw is not permitted in establishments whose primary purpose is to sell or serve alcohol. I am presuming this means bars that only incidentally serves food. And excludes places like Applebees or other places that are primarily restaurants, however may have a bar section.
I often go to restaurants that have a bar section. I'll stay from the bar sections and stick to the dinning room. Of course no alcohol consumption while carrying. Is this everyone else's interpretation?

Also ccw not allowed in 'common carriers'. I presume this means buses, uber, trains, et?

Just out of curiosity (I’m in Sacramento County), did the training agency not go over this information?

[Rickybillegas]

Originally Posted by Dvrjon

Just out of curiosity (I’m in Sacramento County), did the training agency not go over this information?

The answer is no, absolutely not did they go over any restrictions on carry.
Restrictions are listed on the permitium, but the laws as written are obtuse and not explained in detail. That is the key. The legal language is not clear.
leaves it to the permit holder and or law enforcement to determine on the actual scene. I bet many LEO's are as confused as ordinary citizens.

Let me give you an example. The recent mass shooting in Monterey park.
The Sherriff said he thinks the gun the perpetrator was carrying may have been illegal (because of the large capacity magazine?). If the Sherriff doesn't know, who does? The lawyers?

[Rickybillegas]

I need to amend what i said. I thought you were talking about the issuing agency, not the training class. Yes, our training instructor went over restricted places, but there are so many grey areas, that you can't go over everything in eight hours. My point is the same as before, that the restrictions as written are often not clear, or conflicted by other laws.

[igs]

First, why didn't you ask your trainer about this? Why are you asking rando FUDs on the internet for legal advice?

Second, think about what you are asking for just one minute. If a situation ever came up where you needed to use your gun, would any of this really matter at all? I mean, would you rather be DEAD than to have been caught carrying illegally? Is that really what you are asking?

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by igs

First, why didn't you ask your trainer about this? Why are you asking rando FUDs on the internet for legal advice?

Really no difference between a CCW instructor and internet randos in my experience. I've gotten a mix of good and really bad info from both. May as well ask. You may end up learning something. Just verify sources as best you can.

And I think we should encourage people to ask questions, not discourage them. It's what CalGuns is for IMO.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Rickybillegas

The answer is no, absolutely not did they go over any restrictions on carry.
Restrictions are listed on the permitium, but the laws as written are obtuse and not explained in detail. That is the key. The legal language is not clear. It
leaves it to the permit holder and or law enforcement to determine on the actual scene. I bet many LEO's are as confused as ordinary citizens.

That’s the purpose of requiring training…to clarify and amplify the legalities of carrying and the legal use of the firearm.

Originally Posted by Rickybillegas

Let me give you an example. The recent mass shooting in Monterey park.
The Sherriff said he thinks the gun the perpetrator was carrying may have been illegal (because of the large capacity magazine?). If the Sherriff doesn't know, who does? The lawyers?

Your example doesn’t appear to be relevant.

Sheriff Luna was providing an update on a developing and ongoing crisis. In his initial statements it was reported he said it initially appeared that weapon would be illegal under California law. That is an update of current information in a developing investigation.

That’s a hell of a lot different than the information provided to you by a certified instructor who has developed a class to inform you on the constraints and legalities of carrying a firearm which have been known for years. It’s your instructor’s responsibility to clarify that stuff because you agreed to it when you signed the application.

And, “the laws are obtuse”, isn’t a lesson plan.

Back to the info gap…have you approached your instructor for clarification? It could help to improve a deficiency in his training and provide others with a better experience.

Best.

[Ned Ryerson]

I’ve been carrying concealed for many years, and none of this has ever been an issue. That’s the beauty of keeping your gun concealed.

[Dvrjon]

OP, if it’s any consolation, this is a question that has nettled many over the years….
2021
2019
2010

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by Dvrjon

OP, if it’s any consolation, this is a question that has nettled many over the years….
2021
2019
2010

This is CG tho, where the enemy is the search button and we tend to

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

This is CG tho, where the enemy is the search button and we tend to

Sometimes; but the Search Button is notoriously ineffective.

[broadside]

I think the best bet is to use ABC (in CA here are the links)

Lookup the type of license the business has and then check the meaning of the type. Then use good judgement based on the license descriptions

https://www.abc.ca.gov/licensing/license-lookup/
https://www.abc.ca.gov/licensing/license-types/

[Dan_Eastvale]

I edc everywhere except airlines and courthouses
Even at our international airport pre checkpoints
Don’t really look for signs or ask

[johnnyh75]

conceal means conceal I just don't carry in federal buildings and avoids places that have metal detector or wave that wand

[johncage]

Originally Posted by MudCamper

Edited.

OK after doing some reading I have found that many states and state courts have declared that Uber is a common carrier. Uber has been trying to fight this, claiming it's drivers are contractors and therefore private carriers, but they continue to lose ground.

But in California, Prop 22 won, which classified Uber drivers as "independent contractors". Does this mean they are "private carriers"?

commies are crying about it, under the pretext of constitutionality that they care so much about no less, so i guess prop 22 is one of those rare instances where the government did something right

https://www.nelp.org/blog/prop-22-unconstitutional/

but i doubt carrying as an uber driver is worth it when the passenger just gets behind you. probably more worth it to have bullet proof glass partitioning installed instead

[JohnCCW]

Concealed carry has nothing to do with common carriers.