Conceal Carry in personal vehicle

[sirdutch]

I was told that even if you have a California CCW permit that you cannot have the weapon off of your body while in your vehicle.

I certainly would not leave my vehicle without either securing my firearm or carrying it concealed once again on my body before exiting my vehicle.

Is it okay to drive with my pistol on the seat and out of sight?

[CessnaDriver]

My understanding is you can have it in your vehicle under YOUR control... IF you are alone in the vehicle. You can't have it with a passenger able to access it.

[9Cal_OC]

Who told you this?

You can have it off body (as some carry off-body like in purses and backpacks) even in the car but it has to be under your immediate control and out of sight.

If traveling alone, it’s a non-issue just make sure it you don’t place it Willy nilly as to not go flying should you ever get into an accident.

Otherwise, good to go.

With passengers, keep it on your person or locked up.

[sirdutch]

May I get comfortable and take my CCW weapon out of the holster and keep it concealed on the seat covered while driving? I sometimes drive a long ways and it's not always comfortable after awhile. I've been told that that is not kosher. I wouldn't leave it there when exiting my vehicle.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by sirdutch

May I get comfortable and take my CCW weapon out of the holster and keep it concealed on the seat covered while driving? I sometimes drive a long ways and it's not always comfortable after awhile. I've been told that that is not kosher. I wouldn't leave it there when exiting my vehicle.

Yes, you can do that.

Being able to put it on the seat implies you would be travelling alone, so the issue of passenger-access does not arise.

There is the 'what if I have to hit the brakes and the gun winds up on the floor' kind of issue, but that's not a matter of law or IA policy.

[sirvimmy]

Every time you take your gun in and out of the holster presents a higher possiblity of you negligently discharging it. Additionally, you run the risk of someone seeing you move it in and out, and the risk of, if pulled over, have to figure out if you're going to put it away before the LEO comes up to your window. You don't really want a cop finding it before you tell him/her about it.

If you must do that, maybe invest in getting a second holster to put it in, so it's at least not without trigger guard coverage. Maybe mount one to your center console if you have one?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[A_FEMALE_MAN]

Of course you can have the pistol in your car ready to go. I wanna know who told you this. As long as your pistol is on your CCW it’s totally fine to have loaded and in your vehicle. It’s a smart idea to secure it and keep it in you when you leave your vehicle but totally fine to have it in the glove box, center console , on your seat, under your seat, etc. i would keep another pistol on your person though. Don’t solely rely on the center console carry method.

[L84CABO]

Last thing you want is a loaded gun bouncing around the inside of your car if you get into an accident. That could make a bad day a whole lot worse. YMMV.

[G-forceJunkie]

The problem is not for the CCW holder, the problem is for anyone else who is in the car. If I keep my CCW gun in the glove box or center console, I am not braking the law. If I get out of the car to run into the post office or pump gas or whatever, my wife or friend who is sitting in the passenger seat is now in posession of a loaded, illegaly carried weapon.

Originally Posted by A_FEMALE_MAN

Of course you can have the pistol in your car ready to go. I wanna know who told you this. As long as your pistol is on your CCW it’s totally fine to have loaded and in your vehicle. It’s a smart idea to secure it and keep it in you when you leave your vehicle but totally fine to have it in the glove box, center console , on your seat, under your seat, etc. i would keep another pistol on your person though. Don’t solely rely on the center console carry method.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by sirdutch

I was told that even if you have a California CCW permit that you cannot have the weapon off of your body while in your vehicle.

I certainly would not leave my vehicle without either securing my firearm or carrying it concealed once again on my body before exiting my vehicle.

Is it okay to drive with my pistol on the seat and out of sight?

Who told you that?

Let's look at what the law actually says:

Let's start with Penal Code section 25400 which defines the crime of Carrying a Concealed Weapon (quoted in pertinent part):

"(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when the person does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle that is under the person’s control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon the person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

Please note that there are two different ways to violate this law. Carrying concealed on the person and carrying concealed with in the vehicle.

Now let's look at the exception to this law that is made for the holders of CCW permits. That exemption is contained within Penal Code section 25665. Here is the text:

"Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, the carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150)."

Please note that the referenced PC 26150 is the section governing CCW permits.

Put those "building blocks" of statutes together and you'll see that your CCW permit allows you to carry concealed on your person and to carry concealed within a vehicle.

[L84CABO]

Consider this may not be the best of ideas. If you get in an accident while your gun is sitting on the seat, you may have a loaded gun bouncing around the inside of your car...like a missile...that's loaded. That could make a bad day much worse. YMMV.

[Jess B. Guy]

Many (many) years ago we picked up a Model 19 from a low level drug dealer. That was before computers and easy serial number checks. It took two weeks to run down the legal owner of the gun. Turns out it was a deputy sheriff.

Said deputy was in a serious accident off-duty. His Model 19 was under the seat when the accident occurred. Deputy had to go to the hospital, and his car was towed. Tow truck driver stole the gun. It went through a couple of street sales before we got it.

Deputy was happy to get his gun back. After that...always carried in a holster.

[46knuck]

Originally Posted by sirdutch

I was told that even if you have a California CCW permit that you cannot have the weapon off of your body while in your vehicle.

I certainly would not leave my vehicle without either securing my firearm or carrying it concealed once again on my body before exiting my vehicle.

Is it okay to drive with my pistol on the seat and out of sight?

You must have read that on the internet!

[Helmut]

By myself in my vehicle it's in a sticky holster near my right knee at the ready.

If anyone is with me in the car, chest rig or appendix.

[Notpc]

Originally Posted by sirdutch

May I get comfortable and take my CCW weapon out of the holster and keep it concealed on the seat covered while driving? I sometimes drive a long ways and it's not always comfortable after awhile. I've been told that that is not kosher. I wouldn't leave it there when exiting my vehicle.

Buy a better holster. I carry all day (IWB 4 o'clock), setting in my truck, don't even know it's there.

[broadside]

Alien Gear Shapeshifter mounted to the left side of the center console to hold my previous carry gun. Bolted to the console with a thumb lock release. Not going anywhere in a crash

It was covered by my right calf. Would be just as hard for someone else in the vehicle to take possession of it as if it were on my belt when I was seated. But still easily accessible by me as the driver (but I drive 99.99999% of the time solo).

Since it's a truck and not a low car, putting it back in the holster was not an issue since the truck blocks the view.

Too bad they don't make a holster for my new setup.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

Consider this may not be the best of ideas. If you get in an accident while your gun is sitting on the seat, you may have a loaded gun bouncing around the inside of your car...like a missile...that's loaded. That could make a bad day much worse. YMMV.

If it’s a rostered handgun, that can’t happen…it passed the drop test.

If it does happen, sue the State for false certification as a “Not Unsafe” handgun.

[sirdutch]

If it’s a rostered handgun, that can’t happen…it passed the drop test.

If it does happen, sue the State for false certification as a “Not Unsafe” handgun.

I like that answer! Lol!!! As far as hearing my question on the internet? NOT!!! Two years ago while renewing my CCW, the instructor made that claim. Most people found that bogus. I was reminded of it last month when I applied for another renewal. I forgot to ask him. It's always a good idea to secure ones firearm when not in possession of it. Iput it in a container secured to the inside of the trunk. There is always a risk of being observed of course. I leave the magazines in my pocket. If I leave home for a place that I cannot legally carry then I leave without my firearm. I'm not comfortable with that but oh well!

Thanks for all the replies.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by sirdutch

If it’s a rostered handgun, that can’t happen…it passed the drop test.

If it does happen, sue the State for false certification as a “Not Unsafe” handgun.

I like that answer! Lol!!! As far as hearing my question on the internet? NOT!!! Two years ago while renewing my CCW, the instructor made that claim. Most people found that bogus. I was reminded of it last month when I applied for another renewal. I forgot to ask him. It's always a good idea to secure ones firearm when not in possession of it. Iput it in a container secured to the inside of the trunk. There is always a risk of being observed of course. I leave the magazines in my pocket. If I leave home for a place that I cannot legally carry then I leave without my firearm. I'm not comfortable with that but oh well!

Thanks for all the replies.

I'd love to hear exactly what law(s) he thinks you would be breaking and why. If he can NOT explain his claims to the point that everyone will agree with him, find another CCW instructor. If he just backpedals and says it's not really illegal but simply not good practice, that's just his opinion and, I might even agree with that opinion in certain situations.

[michaelh1951]

Wait until our tyrants in Sacramento follow the lead of the New Jersey tyrants....there, the new anti-CCW law disallows carrying in your vehicle altogether

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by michaelh1951

Wait until our tyrants in Sacramento follow the lead of the New Jersey tyrants....there, the new anti-CCW law disallows carrying in your vehicle altogether

It's probably already in the first draft of SB 2.

[N0b0dy]

I don’t think SB2 is going to follow NY or NJ concealed carry law. If you compare their ridiculous laws with the final draft of SB918 - the Portantino bill was a lot more polished and thoughtful. It allowed existing applications to complete under the old rules, had an appeals process, and it did not include completely ridiculous bans such as a Times Square equivalent or cars. IMO, SB918 was the mother of all anti CCW bills that states like NY and NJ copied from. Must have really hurt Portantino that it did not pass…

Sorry, most likely the wrong thread for this rant

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie

The problem is not for the CCW holder, the problem is for anyone else who is in the car. If I keep my CCW gun in the glove box or center console, I am not braking the law. If I get out of the car to run into the post office or pump gas or whatever, my wife or friend who is sitting in the passenger seat is now in posession of a loaded, illegaly carried weapon.

Who goes to the post office anymore these days? And if you do, plan ahead accordingly. Problem solved.

[BC9696]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

Last thing you want is a loaded gun bouncing around the inside of your car if you get into an accident. That could make a bad day a whole lot worse. YMMV.

I placed a powerful magnet in my truck that holds and hides my sidearm in a holster while I am driving....which is much more comfortable. I can draw it instantly and easily, it's right next to my right thigh. When leaving the vehicle I grab the holster and tuck in my pants upon exiting, and reattach when entering. It is completely out of view to anyone else in the truck. Was in a violent accident but the gun stayed put. The magnet worked just fine.

[Oneaudiopro]

Originally Posted by A_FEMALE_MAN

Of course you can have the pistol in your car ready to go. I wanna know who told you this. As long as your pistol is on your CCW it’s totally fine to have loaded and in your vehicle. It’s a smart idea to secure it and keep it in you when you leave your vehicle but totally fine to have it in the glove box, center console , on your seat, under your seat, etc. i would keep another pistol on your person though. Don’t solely rely on the center console carry method.

You may NOT at any time in the state of California travel with a firearm in the glove box or center console. Even in a locked container, CCW or not. Hope that clears this up.

[Veecious]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

You may NOT at any time in the state of California travel with a firearm in the glove box or center console. Even in a locked container, CCW or not. Hope that clears this up.

You’re wrong about the CCW part. See both Cal. Penal Code §§ 25400(a), 25655. The latter exempts CCW holders from the former.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oneaudiopro]

Originally Posted by Veecious

You’re wrong about the CCW part. See both Cal. Penal Code §§ 25400(a), 25655. The latter exempts CCW holders from the former.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don’t spread bad info. Call Ca DOJ, maybe they can explain it in simple terms that you can understand that I am unable to do for you. Glove boxes and center console’s are NO BUENO in the State of California……….Period. Quote all the penal codes you want……….you’re wrong. Nuff said

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

You may NOT at any time in the state of California travel with a firearm in the glove box or center console. Even in a locked container, CCW or not. Hope that clears this up.

FUD.

Also, you didn’t cite any sources in your reply. ^

Yet your source is to call the DOJ? Haha ok…

Ironically, telling others they’re spreading bad info…

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

You may NOT at any time in the state of California travel with a firearm in the glove box or center console. Even in a locked container, CCW or not. Hope that clears this up.

Originally Posted by Veecious

You’re wrong about the CCW part. See both Cal. Penal Code §§ 25400(a), 25655. The latter exempts CCW holders from the former.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Don’t spread bad info. Call Ca DOJ, maybe they can explain it in simple terms that you can understand that I am unable to do for you. Glove boxes and center console’s are NO BUENO in the State of California……….Period. Quote all the penal codes you want……….you’re wrong. Nuff said

Mr. Oneaudiopro,

Please note that California's statutes are controlling here, and any form of telephone conversation with DOJ ain't gonna change that.

It is illegal for one to generally carry a firearm concealed in a vehicle, as well as to carry concealed on one's person.

But the holder of a California CCW Permit is exempt from both sections and may lawfully carry a firearm concealed in their vehicle. Please see my earlier Post #10 for the particulars, and for the legal citations.

Methinks that you're "talking off the top of your head" here with your assertion that concealed carry in a center console or glove box is illegal for the holder of a CCW Permit. But let's try this as a test. What statute is violated if a CCW Permit Holder carries their firearm in the center console?

If a non-permit holder were to do that, I would charge them with a violation of PC 25400(a)(1). But a holder of a CCW Permit is exempt from that section.

So what would you charge them with?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

You may NOT at any time in the state of California travel with a firearm in the glove box or center console. Even in a locked container, CCW or not. Hope that clears this up.

Wrong in every particular.

Without CCW, it would be 'transport', and a glove box or 'utility compartment' does not satisfy the requirement for 'locked container'.

25505.
In order for a firearm to be exempted under this article, while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded and kept in a locked container, and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

16850.

As used in this part, “locked container” means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term “locked container” does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

But, that locked container may be any place the owner wants to put it, even in a glove compartment or utility compartment.

As RickD notes, with CCW, one is exempt from prosecution for loaded in public and concealed in public **. See the FAQ thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=388997

** ETA for the guns listed on the CCW

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Don’t spread bad info. Call Ca DOJ, maybe they can explain it in simple terms that you can understand that I am unable to do for you. Glove boxes and center console’s are NO BUENO in the State of California……….Period. Quote all the penal codes you want……….you’re wrong. Nuff said

So, you're saying that a phone call to some flunky who answers phones at CA DOJ holds more legal weight than the actual law? LOL. You don't have a clue WTF you're talking about. Nuff said.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Don’t spread bad info.

Excellent advice…practice it.

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Call Ca DOJ, maybe they can explain it in simple terms that you can understand that I am unable to do for you. Glove boxes and center console’s are NO BUENO in the State of California……….Period. Quote all the penal codes you want……….you’re wrong. Nuff said

If you can’t explain it, you don’t understand it.

Please take your own advice and do your own research. YOU call DOJ, or better yet, e-mail them to get it in writing. Be sure to specify you’re asking about a CCW holder and not simply transport.

That way, “maybe they can explain it in simple terms that you can understand.”

Period. You’re wrong. Nuff (sic) said.

[Oneaudiopro]

Apologies to my fellow calgunners. I recently attended my CCW training class and range qualification course. My instructor spent a decent amount of time going over the legalities of carrying in a vehicle with a ccw permit. He stated it is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY illegal to have your firearm in your center console or glove box with your permit after he explained that was directly from DOJ after a lengthy phone call. I would like to think when you pay a fee AND to an organization approved and recommended by the IA, everything you are taught should be gospel. I've got a fairly decent legal background so I started to do some research myself (maybe should have done prior to posting). I have not been able to find any Ca penal codes that would make it illegal to carry in a glove box or center console with a ccw permit. I sent my instructor an email to clarify his stance on this subject and am still awaiting his reply. Hope we can all still be friends.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Apologies to my fellow calgunners. I recently attended my CCW training class and range qualification course. My instructor spent a decent amount of time going over the legalities of carrying in a vehicle with a ccw permit. He stated it is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY illegal to have your firearm in your center console or glove box with your permit after he explained that was directly from DOJ after a lengthy phone call. I would like to think when you pay a fee AND to an organization approved and recommended by the IA, everything you are taught should be gospel. I've got a fairly decent legal background so I started to do some research myself (maybe should have done prior to posting). I have not been able to find any Ca penal codes that would make it illegal to carry in a glove box or center console with a ccw permit. I sent my instructor an email to clarify his stance on this subject and am still awaiting his reply. Hope we can all still be friends.

Thank you for rejoining this discussion and providing the update, but by so doing you give a pretty good illustration of why it is important to go back to the basics, read the statutes, and to cite authorities for assertions made.

There's a lot of FUD out there, and unfortunately a lot of it comes from folks who should know better. Some also comes from folks who are little outdated on their studies, or who made an error in their studies (I've done both). The citation to an authority really helps those folks.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Apologies to my fellow calgunners. I recently attended my CCW training class and range qualification course. My instructor spent a decent amount of time going over the legalities of carrying in a vehicle with a ccw permit. He stated it is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY illegal to have your firearm in your center console or glove box with your permit after he explained that was directly from DOJ after a lengthy phone call. I would like to think when you pay a fee AND to an organization approved and recommended by the IA, everything you are taught should be gospel. I've got a fairly decent legal background so I started to do some research myself (maybe should have done prior to posting). I have not been able to find any Ca penal codes that would make it illegal to carry in a glove box or center console with a ccw permit. I sent my instructor an email to clarify his stance on this subject and am still awaiting his reply. Hope we can all still be friends.

You have my respect for admitting your mistake on the internet! As a CCW instructor, I inform my students that, while it is legal to have your carry gun in a glove compartment or even store an unloaded handgun in a locked container in a glove compartment, I strongly discourage doing so because, too many LEOs think it's illegal period. On the other hand, I also tell them that I don't think most LEOs have issues with console vaults or other locked containers in center consoles.

[Librarian]

It's also true that things related by DOJ through a phone call are not binding unless followed up in writing by at least a Deputy Attorney General.

The telephone-answerers at DOJ are unlikely to be attorneys, so their understanding is a bit 'cookbook'. And, at least since Dan Lungren left office in 1999, the AGs have been anti-gun (and Lungren was uneven).

Supervisors - Deputy AGs down to office managers, have to match the directions and tone given them by the elected AG, if they want to keep their jobs. The AG's office has quite obviously not been spending money on training their staff on the law, or updating their 'cookbook'.

In the past I have had successful and satisfactory phone conversations with DOJ staff, but try to get them to send confirmation in email ...

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by Oneaudiopro

Apologies to my fellow calgunners. I recently attended my CCW training class and range qualification course. My instructor spent a decent amount of time going over the legalities of carrying in a vehicle with a ccw permit. He stated it is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY illegal to have your firearm in your center console or glove box with your permit after he explained that was directly from DOJ after a lengthy phone call. I would like to think when you pay a fee AND to an organization approved and recommended by the IA, everything you are taught should be gospel. I've got a fairly decent legal background so I started to do some research myself (maybe should have done prior to posting). I have not been able to find any Ca penal codes that would make it illegal to carry in a glove box or center console with a ccw permit. I sent my instructor an email to clarify his stance on this subject and am still awaiting his reply. Hope we can all still be friends.

We can still be friends and as Rick stated welcome back. Yes, it is reasonable to hope and expect that IA approved courses and instructors are correct, but as you have discovered that is not always the case. The fact that he stated that the information came directly from DOJ should have been a red flag. The are notorious for misstating the law.

[NorCalBusa]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Who told you this?

You can have it off body (as some carry off-body like in purses and backpacks) even in the car but it has to be under your immediate control and out of sight.

If traveling alone, it’s a non-issue just make sure it you don’t place it Willy nilly as to not go flying should you ever get into an accident.

Otherwise, good to go.

With passengers, keep it on your person or locked up.

Is this codified somewhere? Please reference, thanks.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by NorCalBusa

Is this codified somewhere? Please reference, thanks.

If another person is in the vehicle, then no, your carry handgun cannot be off-body.
This is because the passengers can be charged with possession of a loaded firearm in public [PC 25850(a)] and, depending on if it is hidden from plain sight or not, charged with conceal carry within a vehicle [PC 25400(a)(3)], because they have the ability to access your loaded handgun.
^People have been arrested and convicted of this in CA.*

If you are the only person in the vehicle, then yes, your carry handgun can be off-body while you are in the vehicle.

If you leave your handgun in an unattended vehicle, then the handgun must be in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or be in a locked container that is permanently attached to the vehicle's interior that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's locked trunk. [PC 25140(a)]

So, before exiting your vehicle, you need to holster and conceal your handgun on your person or place the handgun in a locked container that is hidden from plain sight or in the vehicle's locked trunk.



*I know of one case where this occurred during the late-1990s.
1. Coworker with valid CA CCW permit took his holstered carry pistol and placed it in center cup/console with a towel covering over it while driving and his friend was seated in front passenger seat.
2. Coworker stopped at gas station for gas and left pistol in vehicle, while he stepped out of the car to pump gas.
3. His friend rolled down the front passenger window and started smoking a cigarette.
4. There happened to be several LASD units stopped at the gas station and the deputies noticed the passenger smoking the cigarette.
5. A deputy approached the car to warn the passenger to not smoke next to the fuel pumps.
6. Passenger gave attitude to deputy and was non-compliant with the deputy's request to not smoke next to fuel pumps, which resulted in the deputies removing the passenger from the car.
7. During this altercation, the loaded pistol was discovered by the deputies.
8. Passenger was arrested for loaded firearm in vehicle in public and concealed carry in a vehicle. The passenger was eventually convicted of those charges (two felonies).
9. LASD notified LAPD and requested they revoke my coworker's CCW permit due to allowing another person to have control over his carry pistol.

[Oneaudiopro]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

You have my respect for admitting your mistake on the internet! As a CCW instructor, I inform my students that, while it is legal to have your carry gun in a glove compartment or even store an unloaded handgun in a locked container in a glove compartment, I strongly discourage doing so because, too many LEOs think it's illegal period. On the other hand, I also tell them that I don't think most LEOs have issues with console vaults or other locked containers in center consoles.

I received a reply from my instructor stating that the ccw permit is only valid when you have your firearm on your person. When it is not on your person then the ca pc that gives exceptions would not be valid. Now I’m even more confused.