CCWing in a Police Station?

[GlockN'Roll]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

There’s an exception for CCW.

Please share a link of this legal exception...

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll

Please share a link of this legal exception...

It’s in the link I quoted.

From his post:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ectionNum=171b

[L84CABO]

What does the front door of the station say? I gotta believe they have a "no weapons" sign up but maybe they don't. And if they do, it's not inherently illegal but they'd probably not be very happy if they caught you...and might report you to your IA. That might be one where I leave my gun locked in the car while I'm in the building. I mean, the Bay Area is essentially a giant shhh...err...crap hole and you still have to get through town to get to and from the station. So I'd still carry to the station parking lot.

[LA123]

Arnt CCW holders required to notify Police Officer they come in contact that they are carrying or is that only at a traffic stop?

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by LA123

Arnt CCW holders required to notify Police Officer they come in contact that they are carrying or is that only at a traffic stop?

Any official stop, likely if you’re asked for ID.

[71MUSTY]

My IA has a policy against it, violation of which would likely result in revoked permit.

That being said wife has carried in patrol units without disclosing when officers who knew her professionally offered her a ride along (they were not officers from our IA's dept.). Figuring since it wasn't a traffic stop it wasn't really their business.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by LA123

Arnt CCW holders required to notify Police Officer they come in contact that they are carrying or is that only at a traffic stop?

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Any official stop, likely if you’re asked for ID.

Not with my IA.

[ezaircon4jc]

Answer from an LA county LEO on another site:

You can. People with CCW's come into the station and it's no issue.

[Tree Cutter]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Answer from an LA county LEO on another site:

Coming into the station lobby is different that going into the secured area where the squad room and offices are. Just my two cents, but you do you.

[BC9696]

I wouldn't do it out of respect for the Police. Besides, many buildings they occupy here in CA have metal detectors you must pass thru. If a Terminator enters and starts killing everyone...there will be plenty of guns to pick up on the ground.

[JohnCCW]

Originally Posted by mk2dave

I sounds like you and might be in similar situations. I'm on the board with a local volunteer group with the local dept., and have talked to the liaisons about CCW while in the application process of the CCW.

To my understanding, it is 100% legal to carry at the Station. Doing so doesn't violate any PC's' dictated by the state, and is not against any guidelines laid out by my IA.

Is it SMART? In my view, no. And the reason is obvious for me.

I think you answered your own questions here (emphasis mine): "If LEO thinks only LEOs can carry inside the restricted area, then if seen by LEO it could lead up to a confrontation/arrest. Similar to how recording LEOs in public, even though 1A protected, some LEOs enforced non-existing law and arrested the person recording."

It is also against the By-Laws of the volunteer group, even with a CCW. You may want to check if that applies to your group or not.

Of course, you are with a different group with a different IA dealing with a different department, so I can't advise you on what to do.

Best answer. Just ask the commanding officer on duty at the facility.

[MudCamper]

Prudence issues aside, you may be violating PC 4574.

... any person, who knowingly brings or sends into ... any jail ... or within the grounds belonging or adjacent to any such institution ... any firearms ... is guilty of a felony

Most police stations include a jail. Or does the holding cell in the police station not legally qualify as a jail?

[db556762]

Originally Posted by MudCamper

Prudence issues aside, you may be violating PC 4574.

... any person, who knowingly brings or sends into ... any jail ... or within the grounds belonging or adjacent to any such institution ... any firearms ... is guilty of a felony

Most police stations include a jail. Or does the holding cell in the police station not legally qualify as a jail?

Where this PD is, the jail is not onsite. I believe local PDs don't have their own holding cells/jails and Redwood City has the jail for booking south san mateo county suspects.

But I have decided I'll just leave my firearm inside my vehicle console safe and not bring it inside the building. The parking is secure and in the same lot as all the police vehicles. If i every strike up a conversation with someone in leadership there, I may bring it up. I also know a local retired police chief that I'll discuss this with next time he and I are together.

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by db556762

Where this PD is, the jail is not onsite. I believe local PDs don't have their own holding cells/jails and Redwood City has the jail for booking south san mateo county suspects.

But I have decided I'll just leave my firearm inside my vehicle console safe and not bring it inside the building. The parking is secure and in the same lot as all the police vehicles. If i every strike up a conversation with someone in leadership there, I may bring it up. I also know a local retired police chief that I'll discuss this with next time he and I are together.

Do let us know their thoughts

[roostersgt]

I don't know where in California some are thinking its okay enter a police building armed. Like just about every public building, city, county or state, there are signs prohibiting weapons. Now just because you have a key fob allowing you to access an area not generally open to the general public, does not negate the "no weapons" in the facilities. You're using an entrance that is usually only used by police officers assigned to that facility. Merely having permission to enter via the officers entrance in no way implies "you" can bring a weapon inside. It would be a great way to lose your CCW permit.

It's a failure of common sense to think of any positive outcome from doing such a thing. You're in a very safe place. If something were to happen and you unholstered your weapon, you'd likely be taken for a bad guy. They don/t know you. If a policeman saw your gun on you, they just might consider you an armed threat and act accordingly. Either way, you lose.

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by roostersgt

I don't know where in California some are thinking its okay enter a police building armed. Like just about every public building, city, county or state, there are signs prohibiting weapons. Now just because you have a key fob allowing you to access an area not generally open to the general public, does not negate the "no weapons" in the facilities. You're using an entrance that is usually only used by police officers assigned to that facility. Merely having permission to enter via the officers entrance in no way implies "you" can bring a weapon inside. It would be a great way to lose your CCW permit.

It's a failure of common sense to think of any positive outcome from doing such a thing. You're in a very safe place. If something were to happen and you unholstered your weapon, you'd likely be taken for a bad guy. They don/t know you. If a policeman saw your gun on you, they just might consider you an armed threat and act accordingly. Either way, you lose.

OP stated it was going to be left in the car.

As you know, signs don't carry legal weight generally. At a Sheriff's Office it might be different. Either way, it's not where I would want a misunderstanding.

I also volunteer with the local Sheriff. Next time I meet with a liaison, I'll ask him. Hopefully some other CG'ers will do the same. I'm curious to see if everyone has the same answer or not. I'm guessing NOT, but it will be interesting to find out.

[roostersgt]

Pretty sure signs posted outside of public buildings like jails, police stations, court houses, city hall etc.... have legal weight. Usually the code section violation is given at the bottom of such a sign. My comment was directed more to those who think "concealed" means "concealed", and they wouldn't be caught. I don't volunteer at a Sheriff's Office, I work at one.

[Dvrjon]

Originally Posted by roostersgt

Pretty sure signs posted outside of public buildings like jails, police stations, court houses, city hall etc.... have legal weight. Usually the code section violation is given at the bottom of such a sign. My comment was directed more to those who think "concealed" means "concealed", and they wouldn't be caught. I don't volunteer at a Sheriff's Office, I work at one.

OK…so the next time you’re at the station, could you check the front entry area, read the “No Firearms” sign and tell us the code section on the sign, please?

Thanks.

[EM2]

Waiting for responses, curious what the various departments have to say.

Also, am I the only person to see the irony that firearms are being restricted within gov buildings, considering the 2nd Amendment is a restriction upon the gov to do that very thing?

[EM2]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

Like how?

I carry everywhere that it's legal to do so. And I don't ask permission to not break the law. Just my 2 cents.

AGREED!
This is a good point, has everyone been beaten down that much they feel compelled to ask for permission?

I carry everyday, everywhere it is legal to do so, and sometimes where it is not.
We must exercise our rights.

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by EM2

Waiting for responses, curious what the various departments have to say.

Also, am I the only person to see the irony that firearms are being restricted within gov buildings, considering the 2nd Amendment is a restriction upon the gov to do that very thing?

Spoke with one of my liaisons, and he seemed to think it should be good it go. But then he also acknowledged that some officers may react "strongly" if the weapon flashes and there is no volunteer ID card prominently displayed on your person. I didnt get what he was referring to in the moment, but he said a significant portion of the volunteers have a CCW, so in HIS mind if you are a volunteer then he half expects you to have a CCW.

Now I say this, but he deals with volunteers all the time. It's a part of his billet description. I'd be curious to know if the patrol officers would see it the same way.

[Brother_Hesekiel]

It's legal to carry in a police station in California (unless it's adjacent to a jail), and if a CCW holder "flashes" his weapon, as your liaison pointed out so eloquently, he isn't really CCW'ing which opens another can of worms.

It's never a good idea to flash one's concealed gun in public, whether in a police station or at a gas station or in a restaurant, which should be a no-brainer.

[EM2]

Originally Posted by mk2dave

Spoke with one of my liaisons, and he seemed to think it should be good it go. But then he also acknowledged that some officers may react "strongly" if the weapon flashes and there is no volunteer ID card prominently displayed on your person. I didnt get what he was referring to in the moment, but he said a significant portion of the volunteers have a CCW, so in HIS mind if you are a volunteer then he half expects you to have a CCW.

Now I say this, but he deals with volunteers all the time. It's a part of his billet description. I'd be curious to know if the patrol officers would see it the same way.

My guess is that the vast majority of officers, were they to see you print, would initially assume you were an off duty, or retired officer. If they have been around volunteers a lot they would probably understand that some may have a CCW.
I would think very few if any officers would react negatively upon seeing you printing.
I think their mind set would be different within their own station and not out on the street.
I am not in law enforcement and this opinion is only based on logic, therefore YMMV.

[db556762]

Originally Posted by EM2

My guess is that the vast majority of officers, were they to see you print, would initially assume you were an off duty, or retired officer. If they have been around volunteers a lot they would probably understand that some may have a CCW.
I would think very few if any officers would react negatively upon seeing you printing.
I think their mind set would be different within their own station and not out on the street.
I am not in law enforcement and this opinion is only based on logic, therefore YMMV.

All very good points and good to hear the more insider view of carrying in a PD. Where we go for our meetings is to the Chief's Conference Room and we walk around with our credentials hanging from a lanyard on our necks. Jail is not onsite and housed across a road in a separate building that we have no access to. I would not be flashing or printing.

I was to go this month for our meeting but it ended up being a zoom call so March will be the next month that I go.

[BOBGBA]

Originally Posted by db556762

I enter not through the public entrance. I enter through the LEO entrance via key fob. I'll look next time to see if there are signs on the LEO entrance, but I highly doubt it. I'll also look at the public entrance next time to see if signage is posted.

When you received the key fob, did you have to sign anything?
Seems like that would be the time/place to spell out the rules.

[db556762]

Originally Posted by BOBGBA

When you received the key fob, did you have to sign anything?
Seems like that would be the time/place to spell out the rules.

I don't personally have it. The senior management of our team has a few.

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by Dvrjon

OK…so the next time you’re at the station, could you check the front entry area, read the “No Firearms” sign and tell us the code section on the sign, please?

Thanks.

There is a No Firearms sign on the front of my police station. PC 171b:

171b. Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public…any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:

(1) Any firearm.

(2) Any deadly weapon

(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.

(4) Any unauthorized tear gas weapon.

(5) Any taser or stun gun

(6) Any instrument that expels a metallic projectile, such as a BB or pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun or paint gun.

I'd love to know more from the knowledgible folks here.

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by mk2dave

There is a No Firearms sign on the front of my police station. PC 171b:

171b. Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public…any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:

(1) Any firearm.

(2) Any deadly weapon

(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.

(4) Any unauthorized tear gas weapon.

(5) Any taser or stun gun

(6) Any instrument that expels a metallic projectile, such as a BB or pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun or paint gun.

I'd love to know more from the knowledgible folks here.

Keep reading in that section:

b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
(1) A person who possesses weapons in, or transports weapons into, a court of law to be used as evidence.

(2) (A) A duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a retired peace officer with authorization to carry concealed weapons as described in Article 2 (commencing with Section 25450) of Chapter 2 of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer.

(B) Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), subdivision (a) shall apply to any person who brings or possesses any weapon specified therein within any courtroom if he or she is a party to an action pending before the court.

(3) A person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ectionNum=171b.

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by Dvrjon

Talking to your IA won't work, as I suspect they will defer to the local PD interest as a common courtesy. They won't be put into the position of having the PD call the IA and wanting to know why they authorized carry into their PD.

Two viable options:



You're already inside the controlled area in the parking lot. The odds of needing to defend yourself drop significantly. Follow the law and secure the gun in a locked container out of site and go to your meeting.

.

I agree with this 100%, this is why options like Lock'er Down and Console Vault exist .

[mk2dave]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Keep reading in that section:



https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ectionNum=171b.

Thank you for this. The excerpt I cut and paste was from shouselaw.com , and I didn't know there was more. And I found it odd that sign itself says "no unauthorized weapons", which lead me to expect there were some details I was not aware of.

[db556762]

My meeting is not required to be open to the public. It’s private and in the private conference room of the Chief of police.

The meetings referenced above are like City council meetings.

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by db556762

My meeting is not required to be open to the public. It’s private and in the private conference room of the Chief of police.

The meetings referenced above are like City council meetings.

The or is evident in that paragraph.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by EM2

AGREED!
This is a good point, has everyone been beaten down that much they feel compelled to ask for permission?

I carry everyday, everywhere it is legal to do so, and sometimes where it is not.
We must exercise our rights.

Amen.