I Know, I know, 9MM is just as good, but...

[Mauserguy]

My brother, son and I went shooting recently. We brought several guns and set up a steel plate on a hanger. The 22s went, "Tink". The 9MMs went, "Plunk", and the 45 knocked the whole assembly over.

I know, 9MM is just as good as 45, new bullet technology, etc., etc., but really, the 45 has authority that the little Euro cartridge lacks. It's got me thinking, maybe bigger really is better.
Mauserguy

[ACfixer]

So carry a .45 right? Or try a 10mm and really have your eyes opened.

[eho0925]

There is literally no difference, terminal ballistics wise, on live tissue, between the big 3 (9, .40, .45)… if you shoot a particular firearm better in any of these chamberings- have at it.

[mk2dave]

With that rationale, why not .50AE?

Every tool has a purpose. I'd be curious to see the ballistics on a .45 out of a 3-3.5 inch barrel with HP's. Would you have any expansion?

Or, just split the difference with a .40.

[kayaker]

So, the theory is that because of advances in bullet design, 9mm is "just as good" as .40 or .45, even though those same advances also make both .40 and .45 even better.
I would say that 9mm isn't bad, it's almost as good as it's larger brothers, but it will never be quite as good. That's especially true for those of us who live in California or other states with a 10 round magazine limit.

[Dan_Eastvale]

I carry owb all day every day
38 Spcl snubby
9mm 3.7” barrel single stack
Barely print

[robert101]

Look, I shot a lot of just stuff as a kid. Spent many an hour in the dump shooting old refrigerators, dryers, cars, and other odd appliances with all types of calibers. The old venerable 45 Automatic put big holes in stuff and penetrated sufficiently. yes, there are other options like 357 Mag for penetration. I found that the 45 and 40 where my sweet spot in the self-defense game. Others may disagree. Shoot what you prefer and practice for moderate proficiency. Being familiar with your gun is more important than anything. Yes, accuracy is important too.

[benjamin101677]

Years ago they used to talk about knock down power. The ability for the round to put a subject down.

I believe the 9mm is easier for most shooters to shoot and for follow up shots. But I whole heartily believe that the 45 acp has the best knock down power to the subject being hit. Why I carry and prefer a 45 acp

[ProRoad]

I have 9, 10 and .45. The last 2 I have purchased are 10's. Love shooting 10mm. Can't go wrong with the big power loads. Side by side of a 9 and 10, you guess which is which...

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by robert101

…The old venerable 45 Automatic put big holes in stuff and penetrated sufficiently.

^^^Not taking ft/lbs of energy away from the .45acp, but FMJ to FMJ, the 9mm generally will always penetrate deeeeeeeeeeper than the .45acp will. Just look at the countless YouTube videos of the demonstrations people conduct between the two…

Originally Posted by benjamin101677

Years ago they used to talk about knock down power. The ability for the round to put a subject down.
I believe the 9mm is easier for most shooters to shoot and for follow up shots. But I whole heartily believe that the 45 acp has the best knock down power to the subject being hit. Why I carry and prefer a 45 acp

^^^Knockdown power is a myth. People step on land mines with limbs blown off and they still can pull the trigger and kill their enemies. I saw a bad guy take a 1oz rifled 12ga Foster-type slug to the upper torso… and lived to stand trial. I have a partner at work that shot a bad guy at point blank in the 10-ring with one shot of a Winchester 230gr Ranger-T and bad guy never stopped talking as he gave up to be handcuffed and then loaded into the ambulance…. He lived. (Side note, the bullet missed the heart and the spine, non the less, he could have pulled his own trigger if he wanted to, but he made the right decision instead). People have been literally pummeled by all sorts of handgun and rifle calibers and still didn’t go down.

Bottom line, don’t get hung up on caliber wars nor bullet diameter. A hit to the vitals with a 9mm is better than a miss to the vitals with a .50BMG.

One example of a .45ACP FAIL:…

[Kokopelli]

The US military found that the 38 Colt was inadequate to stop drugged up Moro warriors in the Philippines. They switched to the .45ACP which worked. (Subsequently, the 38 Special was developed as a replacement for the 38 Colt which served just fine for law enforcement for decades.) The 45ACP served the US military well for a very long time.

The 7.62 Mauser cartridge was inadequate. So the Germans opened up the case as far as it would go, because they understood they needed a better stopper. Thus, the 9mm was born.

In a load out, I can carry a greater number of 9mm cartridges. If I had to defend my home in the middle of the night against a drugged up intruder, I would choose the 45ACP.

[Fnfan]

FNX Tactical FTW

[BillSmith]

If I am attacked by a steel gong, I should have a .45cal in my hand.

Thanks!

[LoadedM333]

.45ACP ftw.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

If I had to defend my home in the middle of the night against a drugged up intruder, I would choose the 45ACP.

If I put two in the heart and one in the head, is it really gonna matter what caliber was used?

Dead is dead, a 9 is fine.

[Featureless]

.22lr to the face or throat of any attacker will stop the fight.

[keepitlow]

Originally Posted by Mauserguy

My brother, son and I went shooting recently. We brought several guns and set up a steel plate on a hanger. The 22s went, "Tink". The 9MMs went, "Plunk", and the 45 knocked the whole assembly over.

I know, 9MM is just as good as 45, new bullet technology, etc., etc., but really, the 45 has authority that the little Euro cartridge lacks. It's got me thinking, maybe bigger really is better.
Mauserguy

Buy what you want. Joes Biden can't stop you...yet.

[Fastattack]

Without getting into the personal defense angle, my experience with steel shooting trees is similar to OPs. Hit it with a 9, and if you happen to get a nice square hit, the target may swing to the other side. But, hit it literally anywhere with a 45 (or even a 40) and, thwaapp! Sometimes it hits so hard the target swings back. That amply demonstrated to me the differences in hitting power.

[Grobie]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

A hit to the vitals with a 9mm is better than a miss to the vitals with a .50BMG.

I was with you up until this point... I'd rather not take a 50bmg anywhere on my body

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by Grobie

I was with you up until this point... I'd rather not take a 50bmg anywhere on my body

Neither would I, but people have taken worse hits and lived long enough to maintain pressure on the trigger finger, getting lucky and striking their mark before dying themselves.

There’s stories probably dating back from the civil war, to world wars, to regional wars of people sustaining fatal injuries from IED’s, land mines, cannon balls, grenades, anti aircraft small arms fire, machine gun fire, shotguns, you name it…. And lived long enough to continue pulling a trigger at their enemy. Why?

Answer:

#1 Because they did NOT sustain enough rapid blood loss and/or sufficient blood pressure loss, causing an IMMEDIATE failure of the brain motor nerve skills; or

#2 Because a Central Nervous System (CNS) INSTANT incapacitation “shot” did NOT occur to the “computer.” This would include an effective CNS hit in the spine above the shoulder blades, through the brain stem, or into the cranial cavity.

Why are you so “bedazzled” and aww-struck by a non-vital hit of a 50 BMG? Sure you can hit someone low in the gut (or the hand, foot, shin, etc…) with a .50BMG, but they still may live long enough (even “seconds”) to collapse on the ground, and continue with their mag dump at you and before they run out of blood.

Read it again and this time, think about the statement. It makes sense:

“A HIT to the VITALS with a 9mm is better than a MISS to the VITALS with a 50BMG.”

[hermosabeach]

OP

Different formula.
Momentum is mass times velocity
KE - kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared.

Momentum helps knocks over a plate.

Speed and smaller diameter helps the 9mm penetrate or over penetrate.



FBI stats say shot placement is the real factor in stopping someone.

A graze with a 50 AE is not as effective as a .32 acp in the heart or eyeball.

[tawadc95]

It’s physically impossible for a 45 to have “knockdown power” and leave the shooter standing after the first rd goes bang….simply a matter of physics.
When you have a guy with the forensic resume of Gary Roberts espouse 9mm for the sum of the benefits it brings, that works for me.

[Pranqster]

Its not just as good.

[Mayor McRifle]

Originally Posted by Mauserguy

I know, 9MM is just as good as 45, new bullet technology, etc.

The faulty aspect of that logic is that it doesn’t account for the fact that new bullet technology benefited the .45 just as much. So . . .

.45 is still > 9mm.

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[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle

The faulty aspect of that logic is that it doesn’t account for the fact that new bullet technology benefited the .45 just as much. So . . .

.45 is still > 9mm.

And... the faulty aspect with THAT logic is that the 9mm now meets the FBI standard for "stopping power" whereas it didn't before. So, good enough I suppose.

I love my 1911's, I just don't think it's the best option all things considered. And the .45 vs 9mm debate rages on...

Let's talk motor oil.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

And... the faulty aspect with THAT logic is that the 9mm now meets the FBI standard for "stopping power" whereas it didn't before. So, good enough I suppose.

I love my 1911's, I just don't think it's the best option all things considered. And the .45 vs 9mm debate rages on...

Let's talk motor oil.

So you are relying on FBI statistics, documentation and testing. Good luck with that.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by Nate

So you are relying on FBI statistics, documentation and testing. Good luck with that.

And that's what you got from my post, that it's something I am relying on? It's just banter in the spirit of a friendly joust Nate. Good luck with it like how? Like when I empty my 15 round mag of 124g HP's into a bad guy and he shrugs it off and shoots me with his .45?

What stats do you rely on? Are you going to settle the great .45 v. 9mm debate?

It's a silly argument, I thought we all knew that by now.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

...

Let's talk motor oil.

What about car wax?

[Subotai]

I own both. The 45 is for manly men, the 9mm for antifa soyboys.

[Kokopelli]

Rain-X is terrible.

[Munny$hot]

Biden said it best: "a 9mm will blow the lungs out of the body". With that kind of wisdom 9mm is my choice.

[sbo80]

Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle

The faulty aspect of that logic is that it doesn’t account for the fact that new bullet technology benefited the .45 just as much. So . . .

That's not really true though, since .45 has a muzzle velocity limitation. A lot of "improvements" to bullet performance and expansion won't occur at such low velocities, and only come into play at higher speed. So "just as much" isn't necessarily accurate.

[HKAllTheThings]

This is an often ignored topic for discussion.

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by Munny$hot

Biden said it best: "a 9mm will blow the lungs out of the body". With that kind of wisdom 9mm is my choice.

45 was a more trustworthy president.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

What about car wax?

Right?! Thanks for the chuckle, that's another one always good for about six pages if insults.

[Tikka3x]

Originally Posted by Mauserguy

My brother, son and I went shooting recently. We brought several guns and set up a steel plate on a hanger. The 22s went, "Tink". The 9MMs went, "Plunk", and the 45 knocked the whole assembly over.

I know, 9MM is just as good as 45, new bullet technology, etc., etc., but really, the 45 has authority that the little Euro cartridge lacks. It's got me thinking, maybe bigger really is better.
Mauserguy

Shooting steel is much different than shooting at bodies. Just sayin.

[Solanaco]

The .45 if likely a heavier bullet weight and you are seeing the effects of the heavier bullet.

When they do those comparisons they try to match bullet weights to make it a fair comparison, even if those aren't the bullet weights commonly used.

[TurboChrisB]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

And... the faulty aspect with THAT logic is that the 9mm now meets the FBI standard for "stopping power" whereas it didn't before.

My .32 +P BuffaloBore was advertised as meeting the FBI standard as well.

[madland]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

Let's talk motor oil.

For my 06 Duramax I ran dino oil for 180K miles with zero issues. OCI every 10K miles with a sample sent to Blackstone Labs.

Sold that truck about 1 year ago.

I currently have a 2022 Ram 3500HO CTD CCLB 4WD that asks for synthetic oil but the OCI is extended to 15K miles. I found some great deals on the Cummins-endorsed Valvoline Blue so I'm stocked up on oil and filters thru 75K miles.

[madland]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

What about car wax?

Meguiar's Gold Class Wax for my Ram. I've never tried any of the boujiee brands of wax. Current truck and last truck of 16yrs are both white. So all I needed was the protection factor of the wax. It's not like the wax made the truck "pop" in appearance. Usually clay bar and wax every 6mos. YMMV.