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  #121  
Old 03-01-2018, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
Ummmmm it’s all in the very first post. Not sure what else you are looking for.
He's probably looking for an a google doc link or something similar.
A single forum thread is almost worthless when you are going to approach a company with evidence of why they should come on board with our cause.
It becomes more official when you put it into a proper database which has dates, company/contact names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses and URL's of the companies.
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  #122  
Old 03-01-2018, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ant_bj View Post
have we set up a data base of list of the CA FFL03 friendly vendors?

By data base do you mean something more complex than the OP list?


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...40&postcount=1
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  #123  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
He's probably looking for an a google doc link or something similar.
A single forum thread is almost worthless when you are going to approach a company with evidence of why they should come on board with our cause.
It becomes more official when you put it into a proper database which has dates, company/contact names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses and URL's of the companies.
google would not allow a link of any type to firearms or ammo vendors - try a search for a firearm then click the shopping option - boom no results. Page 1 is all we have - use it well.
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  #124  
Old 03-02-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SonOfaDI View Post
google would not allow a link of any type to firearms or ammo vendors - try a search for a firearm then click the shopping option - boom no results.
Omtting shopping search results is a far cry from editing people's spreadsheets.
Google has not removed any firearms links from my google docs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gas+...w=1426&bih=867
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  #125  
Old 03-02-2018, 3:36 PM
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Yeah, they won’t mess with people’s docs.

Alao, they removed firearms from shopping results years ago. There was an outcry then, too... unless they eventually put them back in, this is all just virtue signalling.

Things for sale still show up in regular search resulte, though. Just not on the google shopping page.
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  #126  
Old 03-05-2018, 8:40 PM
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I have just placed an order with Underwood based on the info we got from Tracy9676. I emailed a copy of my 03 FFL and COE to sales@underwoodammo.com and referenced my order number. I will update what happens next.
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  #127  
Old 03-06-2018, 8:16 AM
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UPDATE: Underwood replied and said I was good to go for this order and future orders. Then a bit later I got a ship notice and UPS tracking number.

Super easy!
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  #128  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:39 AM
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This is the best. thank you so much for keeping this list to date.
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  #129  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:35 PM
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Just got my 03FFL/COE. I was placing an order on SGAMMO and the delivery drop down menu for the state doesn’t have restricted states on their list including CA. There used to be a part in their check out process that would let you upload a pic of your FFL license but is now gone. I’m going to contact them about this.
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  #130  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
Just got my 03FFL/COE. I was placing an order on SGAMMO and the delivery drop down menu for the state doesn’t have restricted states on their list including CA. There used to be a part in their check out process that would let you upload a pic of your FFL license but is now gone. I’m going to contact them about this.
I just checked SGammo website and found the following:

"Attention CA customers : Sorry, as of 3/16/18 we no longer accept sales to anyone in California. No exceptions or exemptions."

I found this in the conditions of use during on the checkout page.

Last edited by vamaro; 03-16-2018 at 8:57 PM..
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  #131  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamaro View Post
I just checked SGammo website and found the following:

"Attention CA customers : Sorry, as of 3/16/18 we no longer accept sales to anyone in California. No exceptions or exemptions."

I found this in the conditions of use during on the checkout page.
WOW

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  #132  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamaro View Post
I just checked SGammo website and found the following:

"Attention CA customers : Sorry, as of 3/16/18 we no longer accept sales to anyone in California. No exceptions or exemptions."

I found this in the conditions of use during on the checkout page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracy9676 View Post
WOW

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+1 on


I have removed SGAmmo from the list.
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  #133  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:21 PM
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Wow, major bummer about SG Ammo. Seriously bad news. It also sounds like they will not even ship to licensed ammunition vendors for transfer. I hope they reverse course.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 03-16-2018 at 9:45 PM..
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  #134  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamaro View Post
I just checked SGammo website and found the following:

"Attention CA customers : Sorry, as of 3/16/18 we no longer accept sales to anyone in California. No exceptions or exemptions."

I found this in the conditions of use during on the checkout page.
I’d be very interested to know why.
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  #135  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
Just got my 03FFL/COE. I was placing an order on SGAMMO and the delivery drop down menu for the state doesn’t have restricted states on their list including CA. There used to be a part in their check out process that would let you upload a pic of your FFL license but is now gone. I’m going to contact them about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamaro View Post
I just checked SGammo website and found the following:

"Attention CA customers : Sorry, as of 3/16/18 we no longer accept sales to anyone in California. No exceptions or exemptions."

I found this in the conditions of use during on the checkout page.
Y'all realize that DOJ is probably watching this thread and then sending out cease and decist letters to the listed vendors right?
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  #136  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:40 AM
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Default Same same re S&G

I also attempted to order from SG tonight (previously ordered from them two weeks ago). No options listed to get around / upload license/credentials. Emailed an inquiry for an answer.....
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  #137  
Old 03-17-2018, 2:30 AM
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SGAmmo is ****ing us over now? That's bad news, I've bought a whole lot from them in the past
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  #138  
Old 03-17-2018, 5:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Y'all realize that DOJ is probably watching this thread and then sending out cease and decist letters to the listed vendors right?
Cease and desist what exactly? Following and abiding California law to the letter? This isn't a "workaround".

Although it wouldn't surprise me.
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  #139  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:46 AM
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So how are you guys with FFL03 and COE handling the required payment of sales tax?
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  #140  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by traveler1952 View Post
So how are you guys with FFL03 and COE handling the required payment of sales tax?
Just like we did before the law was passed.

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  #141  
Old 03-17-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by traveler1952 View Post
So how are you guys with FFL03 and COE handling the required payment of sales tax?
The same way you handle the required payment of sales tax when you buy any number of every day items - clothing, sneakers, electronics, from tens of thousands of online vendors who do not collect CA or ID sales tax. Ammo is no different from light bulbs in that regard. You claim it and pay it when you file income taxes every year. It is called use tax. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/use-tax.shtml

The exact same way you do it for Idaho https://tax.idaho.gov/i-1023.cfm

You are doing that, right?
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  #142  
Old 03-17-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tracy9676 View Post
Just like we did before the law was passed.

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Yes we obediently fill in line 91 on form 540 every year.


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  #143  
Old 03-17-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by traveler1952 View Post
So how are you guys with FFL03 and COE handling the required payment of sales tax?


Form 540 line 91


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  #144  
Old 03-17-2018, 11:49 AM
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Yes we obediently fill in line 91 on form 540 every year.


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Very obediently...

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  #145  
Old 03-17-2018, 6:02 PM
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Just got this email from SG Ammo, and permission to share:

Quote:
Sorry, I am no longer accepting orders to CA. Its been a tough 2.5 months doing business in CA since the law changed, dealing with the CA clients dealers and processes literally doubled the amount of admin work for me, as in twice as many emails to deal with, twice as many database queries, 5 to 10 times as many document corrections, dealing with clients and dealers that did not want to follow our protocol or fudged their documentation, and more, it actually made me start hating my job for the first time in 17 years, all for less than 1% of our total sales. We made the call on March 16th just to discontinue business there completely to anyone regardless of exemptions. It is just an incredible amount of administrative work for almost zero return.
Particularly disturbing is the part about people forging their documentation

So this may play out at other vendors too. If you are ordering from these vendors, get your ducks in a row beforehand, and make it easy on them when you do order.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 03-17-2018 at 6:06 PM..
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  #146  
Old 03-17-2018, 6:09 PM
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Thanks for sharing that. When put that way it makes complete sense. Overhead completely eating up profits is bottom line.

And as you mentioned, people trying to game the system with fudged data.
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  #147  
Old 03-17-2018, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rice_man View Post
Thanks for sharing that. When put that way it makes complete sense. Overhead completely eating up profits is bottom line.

And as you mentioned, people trying to game the system with fudged data.
He should report the individuals providing fudge/fake documents to law enforcement for ruining it for the law abiding.

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  #148  
Old 03-17-2018, 6:11 PM
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Damn it!! SGAmmo was the go-to for so many good deals.

Wow. I hope this doesn’t spread.
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  #149  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:35 PM
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Bummer. I'd ordered from SGAmmo before and liked them a lot. I can now hear the DOJ's evil laughter at us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joefrank64k View Post
Damn it!! SGAmmo was the go-to for so many good deals.

Wow. I hope this doesn’t spread.
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  #150  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by auffie.hk View Post
Bummer. I'd ordered from SGAmmo before and liked them a lot. I can now hear the DOJ's evil laughter at us.

The worst part is it sounds like some of it was our own undoing...”fudged credentials”?!? Not wanting to follow the vendors own protocol?!?

Wtf?!?
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  #151  
Old 03-17-2018, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Just got this email from SG Ammo, and permission to share:



Particularly disturbing is the part about people forging their documentation

So this may play out at other vendors too. If you are ordering from these vendors, get your ducks in a row beforehand, and make it easy on them when you do order.
Someone has always got f#&(#it up for those of us that abide by rules.

What a shame.

And why the heck would someone try and forge the docs when they are so simply to get. Idiots!!!

Another thing I don’t understand is from the way I read it these same types of things have to be done for other states he sells to so why is he continuing those sells.

Last edited by 97F1504RAD; 03-17-2018 at 8:36 PM..
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  #152  
Old 03-17-2018, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
Another thing I don’t understand is from the way I read it these same types of things have to be done for other states he sells to so why is he continuing those sells.
Sounds like the amount of work does not justify the amount of sales.
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  #153  
Old 03-17-2018, 9:03 PM
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Someone out there will want our money . . . and our long term loyalty.
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Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 03-17-2018 at 9:52 PM..
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  #154  
Old 03-17-2018, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Just got this email from SG Ammo, and permission to share:



Particularly disturbing is the part about people forging their documentation

So this may play out at other vendors too. If you are ordering from these vendors, get your ducks in a row beforehand, and make it easy on them when you do order.


Just what the Progs want. Ammunition vendors to stop doing business in the State. The worst take away are some douches want to game vendors still willing to sell to CA. You may not like the rules, but breaking them while dragging some innocent party with you is inexcusable. Many of us have gone through the time and expense to get a FFL03 and COE, now some losers are going to screw it all up.


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  #155  
Old 03-17-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Sounds like the amount of work does not justify the amount of sales.
That may be, however if you go read the conditions of use page they seem to be doing similar things for other states that require documents and are still selling to them.

And like Bladegunner says Sam is now doing exactly what our overlords want him to do.

http://www.sgammo.com/conditions-use

Last edited by 97F1504RAD; 03-19-2018 at 8:15 AM..
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  #156  
Old 03-18-2018, 1:20 AM
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Default Same same re S&G

I received an identical email response to my inquiry to S&G.

And while I hate pointing fingers in the direction of my contemporaries, who says that most of the "fudging" was just C&R03/COE FFL's? S&G was also allowing LEO's to upload a photo of their credentials and ID and shipping directly to them up until this happened. There could have also been an issue there.

All-in-all, the cost vs benefit argument wasn't making it worthwhile for them.

I'm sure the legislators and other anti's are lighting cigars and enjoying their moment reading all of this.....this is exactly what they had hoped for.
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  #157  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam6955 View Post
Its a bull**** cop out. Oh no, he has to do his job.

Just another ******* trying to make a quick buck of firearm enthusiasts. When he has to actually work for his money, he is not interested.

Over the TargetSport USA I guess.
I tend to agree. I was a very loyal customer, too. He’s free to do what he wants, but this hurts the 2A cause in California at a time when we could really use some help.
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  #158  
Old 03-18-2018, 1:41 PM
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I seriously doubt his whole California is only 1% of his business line. I would venture to guess it is much higher than that.
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  #159  
Old 03-18-2018, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD View Post
I seriously doubt his whole California is only 1% of his business line. I would venture to guess it is much higher than that.
I think you over estimate how many people are getting 03FFL's and COE's to buy ammo online.
The vast majority of shooters who do not reload are still working off of stockpiles from last year or buying at local stores now.
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Old 03-18-2018, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by adam6955 View Post
Its a bull**** cop out. Oh no, he has to do his job.



Just another ******* trying to make a quick buck of firearm enthusiasts. When he has to actually work for his money, he is not interested. The claim that "my workload doubled for 1% in sales volume" is interesting, and does not add up. Either his job is typically REALLY EASY, or he is downplaying the sales volume.

I just do not see what the hassle is with reviewing a standardized document prior to shipping. My docs are already stored on their server, and have already been reviewed. So for a once a year time investment, they get my money for an entire year. THOUSANDS of dollars. What I spend alone easily pays the wages to review my documents a hundred times over.

The website already flags orders to CA, so a simple "date of expiration" field could be added which required maintenance one a year.

Overall, it just reeks of laziness and a "supporter of freedom" who does not have the stomach to truly support those of us behind enemy lines.

Over the TargetSport USA I guess.
While I don't know what his exact situation is I will tend to disagree. I am self employed and have had my own business for 17 years. I don't have any employees. Just me. I don't "have to do my job". I do it because I like doing it and I'm fairly good at what I do. If it ever came to the point where I had so much bureaucratic headaches to deal with that I would either
a) find something else to do or
b) keep doing what I love doing but get rid of the part that gives me a headache.

I really don't see it as a cop out from a pure business perspective. I've turned down jobs that would have made me good money but it either involved way too much trouble or travel. Neither of which is worth it to me. I still do well enough without to pay bills and put food on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
I tend to agree. I was a very loyal customer, too. He’s free to do what he wants, but this hurts the 2A cause in California at a time when we could really use some help.
This I will agree with - customer loyalty is out the window and we can really use the help out here. Many have given up on us and who can really blame them when they keep changing the rules of the game?
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Last edited by rice_man; 03-18-2018 at 2:00 PM..
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