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  #201  
Old 09-05-2019, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
How bout we get back to Kestryll's thread?

This is getting hilarious. Was this a test so Kestryll can see how long it takes for this thread to fall apart and show what has become of his forum? People focused for about 130some posts and now it's turned into 2A talk, what's wrong with CA politics, trying to point Kate out as being a hobbiest gun owner, who is more 2A than thou, some thespian monologue...does this thread get moved into Off Topic discussion now?
Wherefore art thou? Thespians can't be gun owners?

Forsooth.

My whole post carried the subtext of humor and absurdity as a device, purposely serving to convey the very thing you are citing, to make a point. But I'm glad you found it hilarious as that WAS the point. A jibe to laugh, but to still carry the seriousness of the bits.

It was meant to just as equally express in the verbose, all the fluffy, feel-good ways 'words, words, words' are used to create a storm of smart-sounding soliloquies that are served up to confuse, befuddle and use try to massage the feelings out of peoples' bowels by way of social-engineering, in hopes to get them to voluntarily eschew their 2nd Amendment rights as 'responsible woke citizens' and dilute their civil rights.

And we have often seen those same people come here to try to change Calguns. They have even joined our Build Parties to write articles in "Mother Jones" about how icky it made them feel and how awful it was to build a home-made AR15.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=779131

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=767574


Make no mistake; they are here to destroy Calguns and the 2nd Amendment in general.

These socialist underground ninja seek to make gun ownership an embarrassing and vilified repugnant thing, and their true goal is to regulate gun owners, register PEOPLE, and abolish the 2nd Amendment while making gun ownership a privilege of no more rights than a driver's license, and 'common sense' to them simply means disarmament.

CALGUNS SHOULD NOT CHANGE ONE SINGLE BIT.


If anything, we should get back to our roots, to the camaraderie of fighting anti-2nd Amendment legislation in unison, in full, and not give up one damn inch, and the ONLY reason we have lost so much ground... is because we have not done the former at full throttle these past 10 years like we once did.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #202  
Old 09-05-2019, 8:39 PM
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Alright, here we go !

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
However we DO have the responsibility and reverence for them (firearms) as to never forget they were weapons, and knew exactly what they were to be used for and apt to be very dangerous in the wrong, irresponsible hands of those who saw them as nothing more than luxurious consumer playthings; or more so, if in the hands of tyrants and/or those wishing to do evil.
^^I agree to this at least.

I didn't realize you were a Shakespearean scholar! Will not be surprised next time.

Well, I'll try to remember you when I go for my weekly practice this weekend.

ps: Oh yes! be wary of "my kind". Young minds are so dangerous for the cause and different, and must be cautioned against!
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Last edited by hillsidehutz; 09-05-2019 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: grammar
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  #203  
Old 09-05-2019, 8:49 PM
Kate Kate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
I accept your apology, because it's clear it was beyond you.

If you read it again, and you know your Shakespeare, you'll see that there was no insult to Kate, it was done to amuse her...

I am quite sure Kate is 'shrewd' enough to see the difference, and to have not taken any offense.
Absolutely no offense taken in any way. In 5 pages of responses, it might have been the most entertaining of them all.

Although far from shrewd, I am always amused by Kate quotes, even if the allusion is one of a small mole-like mammal...

At least I was not a poor player strutting and fretting...

I hope I am tamed well enough to appreciate your clever wittiness...

Kate
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  #204  
Old 09-05-2019, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
Absolutely no offense taken in any way. In 5 pages of responses, it might have been the most entertaining of them all.

Although far from shrewd, I am always amused by Kate quotes, even if the allusion is one of a small mole-like mammal...

At least I was not a poor player strutting and fretting...

I hope I am tamed well enough to appreciate your clever wittiness...

Kate
It's all good! Have fun Kate, and I actually think you and I are much more of like mind on many issues than casual observers may assume.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 09-07-2019 at 11:17 AM..
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  #205  
Old 09-06-2019, 4:07 AM
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If anything, we should get back to our roots, to the camaraderie of fighting anti-2nd Amendment legislation in unison, in full, and not give up one damn inch, and the ONLY reason we have lost so much ground... is because we have not done the former at full throttle these past 10 years like we once did.
Break that egg before it hatches.
Put the fire out at the base of the flames.

The Committee's, while its still a proposed Bill, concentrate the opposition.


Vick
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  #206  
Old 09-06-2019, 9:43 AM
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Kestryl, I think what youíre feeling is dilution more than it is truly attrition. We have a much increased opposition to us, and somewhat same amount of people willing to lend their voice to 2A support... so it sounds like a major weakening.

In addition, Calguns is not the central rallying point it once was for that but Iím not so sure that is a bad thing? Calguns is still the #1 source of shared expertise in CA gun laws and informed ownership.

Other sources of rallying have emerged, such as FPC. I was still in college when Calguns was really that rallying point and I wasnít that pro-2A active (busy? Lazy?) But when FPC started their take action emailings and easy response forms and posted calling numbers my involvement in that skyrocketed! We should be super supportive of anything that helps get people involved and I know here and elsewhere there has been a lot of negativity toward some pro-2A orgs because of pet peeves and being critics of their funding and expense priorities. Each gun owner (conservative, liberal, libertarian or in between) should put their voice and support into pro-2A orgs they want to support WITHOUT being destructive to any other!! Tearing down any support structure no matter how minimal it is does not help us.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!
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  #207  
Old 09-06-2019, 4:21 PM
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We need to take the approach of the Freemasons. Rather than belief in a creator, belief in the infallibility of our inalienable rights should be the cornerstone of “our” society. Swear it.
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  #208  
Old 09-06-2019, 5:08 PM
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Sadly, I feel all I can do at this point is buy the stuff I feel will inevitably be banned. I'm always down to donate what I can.
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  #209  
Old 09-06-2019, 8:43 PM
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Petty divisiveness, good ol boys club, random enforcement of rules, etc all serve as wedges and all are present on cgn. (I am one of the offenders in regards to divisive behavior). Honestly I cant stand 75% of the active posters here.

I have met multiple calgunners in person and loved to be around them. Even the ones I couldn't stand online.... and our online interactions and my opinions towards them while online changed

It is a problem with the internet. CGN members need to post less and be more active in their communities... and we would probably be less prone to petty crap. Idt that is a problem with the site. Cgn does a good job of promoting that stuff. People just have to do it

If there are any changes to be made for the site, I would say members need to present themselves as more amiable and single minded (guns... it is a gun forum).

I like the rules, but would like to see consistent Enforcement.

As for gun rights overall, I think we need to unite (reunite) as a 2a community before we can effectively go about changing politics.





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Last edited by repubconserv; 09-06-2019 at 9:23 PM..
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  #210  
Old 09-06-2019, 9:07 PM
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I love calguns!

Miss the Facebook group...
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  #211  
Old 09-07-2019, 9:12 AM
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I honestly do not know how to make calguns an effective pain in the asses of the enemy. They could care less about our freedoms or thoughts. My wife and I plan on leaving this state post-retirement. I will support calguns and the NRA financially and hope we can keep pressure on the politicians.
Perhaps a lawsuit fund would be the way too go. Litigate them to death. I am in for a $100.00

Wish I had a better answer ...
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  #212  
Old 09-08-2019, 11:03 AM
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I am a member of a couple of "unmoderated" sites. Believe me, you don't want to go there with Calguns. The number of people who say stupid and threatening things because they cannot debate the issue under discusion is high on every one of those "unmoderated" sites.

We don't need that here. We have enough issues with existing members under the existing rules. That alone should tell you that opening up the discussion by removing language restrictions is a bad choice. Especially for a gun-right website. The anti's would be pointing to our lack of self control as a basis to claim we're dangerous and that's the reason they should take ALL of our guns away from us.

As a Gun Rights collective, we have to face the fact that until SCOTUS gets off it's black robe wearing butts and actually does it blasted job, we're going to be pee'd on by our legislators here in California.

SCOTUS is where we need to be focused. We need to send strong 2A cases their way and STOP playing around with the CC/OC debate which is dividing us. That division is eroding our ability to actually progress forward toward regaining our 2A Rights.

From there; We NEED to get off our own collective butts too. We need pro 2A candidates to run for office in districts where the current "ruler" is termed out. We NEED TO STOP WHINING about how it's "too difficult" to get anywhere in politics because the State is locked into the 1-party Democrat thing. Trump is 73 and he's the freaking President for heaven's sake. If he can do it in his 70's, YOU can do it in your 50's and 60's. Especially on the State level.

None of this can happen soon, but it can happen. If, that is, we decide to stop being pretenders and start being actual activists. It takes more than money and loud talk.
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  #213  
Old 09-08-2019, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
I am a member of a couple of "unmoderated" sites. Believe me, you don't want to go there with Calguns. The number of people who say stupid and threatening things because they cannot debate the issue under discusion is high on every one of those "unmoderated" sites.

We don't need that here. We have enough issues with existing members under the existing rules. That alone should tell you that opening up the discussion by removing language restrictions is a bad choice. Especially for a gun-right website. The anti's would be pointing to our lack of self control as a basis to claim we're dangerous and that's the reason they should take ALL of our guns away from us.

As a Gun Rights collective, we have to face the fact that until SCOTUS gets off it's black robe wearing butts and actually does it blasted job, we're going to be pee'd on by our legislators here in California.

SCOTUS is where we need to be focused. We need to send strong 2A cases their way and STOP playing around with the CC/OC debate which is dividing us. That division is eroding our ability to actually progress forward toward regaining our 2A Rights.

From there; We NEED to get off our own collective butts too. We need pro 2A candidates to run for office in districts where the current "ruler" is termed out. We NEED TO STOP WHINING about how it's "too difficult" to get anywhere in politics because the State is locked into the 1-party Democrat thing. Trump is 73 and he's the freaking President for heaven's sake. If he can do it in his 70's, YOU can do it in your 50's and 60's. Especially on the State level.

None of this can happen soon, but it can happen. If, that is, we decide to stop being pretenders and start being actual activists. It takes more than money and loud talk.
I agree with all of this... and have for 3 decades.

It's just in the past 7 years I've seen a devolution on the part of CA gun owners into adopting detuned, Pavlov reward instant gratification style activities as opposed to creating friction and traction in the real-world.

"One Click Politics" and participating in "online polls" has become the sole only proactive (sort-of) input, and deceptively satiates the least common denominator of efforts as seemingly having done bigger and greater things.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 09-10-2019 at 12:46 AM..
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  #214  
Old 09-09-2019, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
And you're "another one" who attempts to put words in other's mouths. Knock it off. I'm certainly the last one to advocate for Marxism - OR theocracy.

I didn't say I stopped voting, I said the choices were difficult. The Bible has nothing whatsoever to do with our laws - believe it or not, "morals" (a term I dislike, but for lack of a better) existed long before that BOOK was promulgated upon an unhappy planet. Our founders tried their very best to keep EVERYBODY'S religion out of gov't, and I would never accuse them of anything as evil as being theocrats.


Would have replied sooner but left for a week of backpacking in the Sawtooth's before winter takes over.

No attempts were made to "put words in other's mouths". Try reading the Founder's Writings and judge for yourself...even the theocrats were in definite favor of the non-establishment of a national religion.

Morals are common and similar among agnostics, atheists, and believers of one degree or another.

Thanks for playing.
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  #215  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:23 AM
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Then I think we may be in agreement, despite your acerbic and combative attitude.
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  #216  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
Then I think we may be in agreement, despite your acerbic and combative attitude.
Sorry for the acerbic and combative attitude.

Very sorry if it hurt or otherwise disturbed your feelings.
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  #217  
Old 09-10-2019, 2:36 PM
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Apology gratefully accepted. Sometimes written comms get mis-understood - Goddess knows mine often have been, and it looks like I was the guilty party this time. {BOW HERE}
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  #218  
Old 09-13-2019, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Not a new path. However some alternate and exclusive paths. Possibly a limited access forum for those willing to contribute towards legal action. Much like the members forums could not a place and a vehicle for those willing to donate $$$. I doubt the anti's would contribute lets say $100.00 per year paywall/donationwall to access a place to discuss becoming an activist or meet ups.

A NRA members only forum. Gated by verification of membership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Possibly create a ranking system much like Itrader that could be a tag on the user's handle that would help Identify as pro 2A , Anti 2A or just a habitual troll.

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
Absolutely not. We must keep standards and our best face at all times.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
OT for me is a great source of relevant news links. I often see news links days before hearing it on the radio. OT Often provides a great laugh. We all need to laugh more, especially at ourselves. Something has changed however there 10 years ago I almost laughed daily there not so much now.

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Possibly very slightly getting banned for calling out a troll as a liar for example. Provided the lie can be proved.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
Not sure, as gun rights in this state are diminishing something that attracts newbs and novice gun owners is a plus.
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Last edited by BigBronco; 09-13-2019 at 6:51 AM..
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  #219  
Old 09-13-2019, 6:54 AM
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Kes,

First - You’ve done an AMAZING job with this site, including the education and activism it created. I agree with (2) posters from page 1: joyful joker and the other who started their neighborhood watch.

Any yahoo keyboard “warrior” can say what they want for any asinine purpose. These pages are replete with such posts.

(1) Getting people involved,
(2) applauding and acknowledging each other when we physically show 2A support (monetarily, in person / at rally, or other overt means
(3) find a way to alternate a local shoot & then sit down at the park / beach / lodge style meeting. Engage face to face, have an agenda shared in advance so most people come prepared, and perhaps
(4) provide guidance on which organizations are our true allies who deserve quid pro quo support.

Like others on this post - I felt I made the most difference when I held annual pumpkin shoots over nearly 2 decades with gay / straight/ atheist / believers/ LAPD & bikers/ and people of all races. 2-3 dozen used to be the norm, and due while the number has dwindled (for legal and other reasons) - I found face to face engagement had the most positive impact.

Bravo Zulu for all that you’ve done and for the shot of adrenaline!

Cheers!

Tim
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  #220  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:38 AM
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Default Calguns Problem Is About to Be Fixed

Just like the Polish army in WWII, Calguns problem is weaponry. You can't expect people to charge into Panzers with fly swatters. Gees! No worries. This is nothing this new political nuke won't fix in a hurry...even in CA. You should see this link so you don't miss its Hiroshima moment. Probably not as fun as going door to door with your AR's or AK's, but a heck of a lot faster and WAY more profitable.

Last edited by Boring CPA; 09-13-2019 at 10:41 AM..
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  #221  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:05 AM
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YOUR QUESTIONS:

"Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path? Partially, but ...

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party? NO

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here? NO

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A? NO

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts? NO

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community? NO "
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  #222  
Old 09-13-2019, 4:53 PM
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Default Chin Up!

I've been a member for almost a decade (wow!), but as you can see from my number of posts, I only drop by occasionally, at best. Still, I've always found Calguns to be a great resource and I'm very glad it's here. I was struck by your post, and wanted to respond to your request for feedback.

Quote:
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Seems like good plan to me--strive to be a "big tent."

Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
Not overtly--that seems a little cheesy. This is a special interest forum and the focus should be on the healthy development and protection of that special interest. In practice, that's usually going to coincide with one or two parties, but focus should be around the firearm enthusiasts and related advocacy, not the party (even if that leads to support of one party most of the time).

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
As an interest group, we are clearly on the defensive at this point in time. I think Calguns best serves its community and causes by being a shining example of the best the community has to offer, and attracting new members versus scaring them off. Hopefully this can be achieved without getting too draconian.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
This seems antithetical to the ideals of the typical freedom-loving 2A supporter.

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
As I said, Calguns, its community, and its causes benefit more from being a shining star versus a dumpster fire. I hate censorship, but Calguns is a privately funded interest group with a mission, and it's important to foster an environment that benefits that mission. I don't really have a sense for how much "moderation" is required to keep things from going off the rails, but if there's a big demand for looser restrictions, perhaps some sub-forums could accommodate such a desire.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
Doesn't seem like there would be much 'gun talk' to talk about without 2A rights! I think the mission is extremely important, and hopefully the 'gun talk' eventually gets people to graduate to meaningful activists.

Quote:
We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.
Life is full of strikes and gutters, and no one should be condemned for occasionally finding themselves in a rut. There's always room for improvement, so I hope you find some good ideas. But anyone involved in the founding and continuation of Calguns should be very proud indeed.

Quote:
When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.
I read that Calguns has about 150,000 members. If 5-8 (avg of 6.5) of every 100 becomes actively involved, that 9,750 activists! Not too shabby... Personally, I think better questions to ask are:
How do we increase our rate of new membership?
How do we increase the real engagement from 5-8 out of 100 up to 8-10?

There's a lot to be proud of, and I hope you figure out how to keep sharpening the saw.

Since I just realized I've been a freeloader for almost a decade on this site, I sent in payment to become a lifetime CGN/CGSSA Contributor. Thanks for letting me decide to join at my own pace!

I hope my contribution, in some small way, helps cheers you up and validates the hard work from those that make Calguns a reality. Don't give up the fight!
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Old 09-13-2019, 7:42 PM
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I'm Brand New here, just joined a few day ago.

I've lurked a bit the last year or two.

I've come to like what I have seen so far. I don't have any answers on what to do to improve this Website. But I will say this. We NEED THE YOUNG PEOPLE. I try to talk a bit to the Young Folks I see at the indoor range I go to a few times a year. But they don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say.
They just see a broken down old man shooting old revolvers.

How do you talk to young people ?
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  #224  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:46 PM
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I have a question in response: When are we going to start calling treason, treason?
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Old 09-14-2019, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir View Post
I read that Calguns has about 150,000 members. If 5-8 (avg of 6.5) of every 100 becomes actively involved, that 9,750 activists! Not too shabby... Personally, I think better questions to ask are:
How do we increase our rate of new membership?
How do we increase the real engagement from 5-8 out of 100 up to 8-1
I'd restart you're math...not sure how you got to 150K members.

From the very bottom of the home page just now...

Members: 307,338, Active Members: 21,229

I'd assume "Members" means total user names since the forum began. Not sure the definition of "Active Members".
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:22 PM
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Hi Bigman,

Approach and attitude.

Out of curiosity; do you have children and/or grandchildren? I do.

If the same with you, then you may have seen that every generation will eventually construct their own mind, opinion, and outlook even though we are thinking of the same subject.

Hence, on the negative side, I accept (through this one thread alone) that a productive dialogue between differing thoughts spawning from different times sadly can be completely unproductive.

I am now going to assume that you are insinuating that the younger generation must be involved in calguns.net in order to continue propagating some older, yet fundamental ideas. This may also be true, but I guarantee that it is not going to happen without some of those fundamental ideas evolving to fit the younger generations' ideas and needs as well. The forum will then proceed to judge whether this is a process of dilution or evolution, but the fact remains that the largest bulk of the American millenials from coast to coast do not spend a second in their life thinking about whatever we all think is important here in calguns, despite any of the implicit exposure to firearms via video games, movies, youtube, reddit, etc.

So, key in communication here is in approach and attitude.

Also, younger generations usually respect and look up to their elders by default. However, they/we are the product of information age, in which whatever it is that you are trying to convey, its highly likely has been known, read/heard elsewhere, disseminated, and then decided upon themselves whether or not an idea/something is at all worthwhile.

Surmounting this requires a certain approach and attitude I certainly have not seen here (this being the internet after all). But I suggest being courteous, earnest and get prepared for a learning moment.
In other words, talk to them like any other decent human being.
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Old 09-17-2019, 3:50 PM
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Default it is the small things.

I'm a Pediatric Dentist in North County. I rounded up my 2 zillion unneeded gun locks and offered them "for free" to my families. One per family. It was a good conversation starter.
I joined a group called "Guns and Moses." We give our synagogues a little extra protection. Now and then we take a shooting scenario class as a group. Makes a traditionally Liberal community a little more gun rights savy.
Small things.
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  #228  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:33 AM
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From a few years back, the active CGF leaders who frequently posted here with open discussion of strategy added so much here. Much more than most will admit. By involving myself in the discussion, with people listening actually involved in court and other actions, it felt like I was part of a movement rather than a supporter of a cause. It is probably no coincidence that at the same time I started showing up to the city council meetings, mailed hand written letters of protest to politicians instead of emails, and similar activities.

Now CGF had a few failures and has gone radio silent here. Whatever your opinion of their strategy, the environment they fostered, the we will win no matter what they throw at us optimism, has been lost without them. It has been replaced with a defeatist outlook even in the face of some court wins.

I think this has been a huge loss for us. The NRA and other organizations do good work, but their strategy is made behind closed doors without the open involvement of the community. When you feel you are involved, you feel more invested, and you want to do even more without being asked. You feel obligated to do more, you want to, and you feel your participation is making a real difference.

How do we get this back? I haven't shown up to a city council meeting in a few years, but it wasn't a decision I made, not on purpose. There just doesn't feel like a movement anymore that I'm a member of. Just a cause I'm a supporter of.

Last edited by stix213; 09-18-2019 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 09-20-2019, 5:37 AM
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As an organization I have always felt that Calgun could NEVER bend forward and comply fast enough to do the deep state’s bidding.

For the most part, calgunners are not allies they are whiners and obedient compliers.

The second amendment is among the SUPREME LAWS OF THE LAND but commiefornians are such Pu$$ies that they have given it away.

It is so many years past time to shoot back but calgunners (for the most part) tuck tail.

The principled people have moved to free states despite the hardships. I would never look to calgun for firm principles. I come for the classifieds.

Calgun has been an embarassment of wusses for a long time. It has outlived any potential usefulness.

Last edited by Flight Now; 09-20-2019 at 5:40 AM.. Reason: Clarity
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  #230  
Old 09-20-2019, 6:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Now View Post
As an organization I have always felt that Calgun could NEVER bend forward and comply fast enough to do the deep stateís bidding.

For the most part, calgunners are not allies they are whiners and obedient compliers.
The second amendment is among the SUPREME LAWS OF THE LAND but commiefornians are such Pu$$ies that they have given it away.

It is so many years past time to shoot back but calgunners (for the most part) tuck tail.

The principled people have moved to free states despite the hardships. I would never look to calgun for firm principles. I come for the classifieds.

Calgun has been an embarassment of wusses for a long time. It has outlived any potential usefulness.
I'm sorry you have found Calguns not as useful as you think it should be. I joined about the same time as you and I did fine a lot of info here very useful and how to "comply" with the ever changing laws.

Complying 'under protest' to me is not being a "wusses", but being wise. To have my arms confiscated and possibly being behind bars and finically ruined doesn't sound like a winning situation.

Perhaps I'm in the minority in gleening good info from Calguns, but I appreciate the efforts of those that have contributed to my knowledge, whether they be wusses or principled.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #231  
Old 09-20-2019, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.
You are not to blame. It's extremely hard to keep fighting the good fight when the wins are so few and far between, even for the strongest warriors.
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  #232  
Old 09-20-2019, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Now View Post
As an organization I have always felt that Calgun could NEVER bend forward and comply fast enough to do the deep stateís bidding.

For the most part, calgunners are not allies they are whiners and obedient compliers.

The second amendment is among the SUPREME LAWS OF THE LAND but commiefornians are such Pu$$ies that they have given it away.

It is so many years past time to shoot back but calgunners (for the most part) tuck tail.

The principled people have moved to free states despite the hardships. I would never look to calgun for firm principles. I come for the classifieds.

Calgun has been an embarassment of wusses for a long time. It has outlived any potential usefulness.
So just to clarify, did you choose fight or did you choose flight?
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Old 09-20-2019, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
So just to clarify, did you choose fight or did you choose flight?

We know, anyone who moved to better their life is a coward, uncommitted and doesn't care about California. You've said it to us over and over and over again. I bettered my life, but I'm still HERE. I still fight for those behind enemy lines, but the fight is getting worse and worse there. There really isn't much TO DO anymore when you look at the overall situation. For me it wasn't viable to live there anymore.
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  #234  
Old 09-20-2019, 8:53 PM
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The hand writing was on the wall when in 2010 the dems rigged it forever for socialist advancement.
That was Prop 14

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A top-two primary is a type of primary election in which all candidates are listed on the same primary ballot. The top two vote-getters, regardless of their partisan affiliations, advance to the general election. Consequently, it is possible for two candidates belonging to the same political party to win in a top-two primary and face off in the general election
I think every political elective office in California is held by a dem/socialist/communist.


Life is short.



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  #235  
Old 09-22-2019, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Now View Post
As an organization I have always felt that Calgun could NEVER bend forward and comply fast enough to do the deep state’s bidding.

For the most part, calgunners are not allies they are whiners and obedient compliers.

The second amendment is among the SUPREME LAWS OF THE LAND but commiefornians are such Pu$$ies that they have given it away.

It is so many years past time to shoot back but calgunners (for the most part) tuck tail.

The principled people have moved to free states despite the hardships. I would never look to calgun for firm principles. I come for the classifieds.

Calgun has been an embarassment of wusses for a long time. It has outlived any potential usefulness.
Calguns.net has around 20,000 "active" members. Let's separate the majority who'd cave to confiscation from those who would act more like our Founding Fathers...i.e., there are millions of gun owners in California to start with.

DOJ estimates around 10% max. registered their "assault" weapons in the period ending in the early 2000's, and around the same with the most recent registration period.

That leaves 90% not agreeing with the need for registration...I was one among those. I'd say that also means that a significant majority of gun owners do and will not comply with California's firearms's restrictions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
We know, anyone who moved to better their life is a coward, uncommitted and doesn't care about California. You've said it to us over and over and over again. I bettered my life, but I'm still HERE. I still fight for those behind enemy lines, but the fight is getting worse and worse there. There really isn't much TO DO anymore when you look at the overall situation. For me it wasn't viable to live there anymore.
We got out ~ 30 years ago for exactly the same reasons...a much better location in which to raise a family, better schools, better jobs, etc. We still contribute heavily each year to the NRA's ILA people, and we request all money goes to the lopsided battle in California.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
So just to clarify, did you choose fight or did you choose flight?
We chose both...see above.

ON TOPIC, I've asked you a dozen times if I've asked you once...

WHAT is your plan? Stagnation, or confiscation, or something else?

We did not see ANY advantage to fighting a battle that we knew California collectively would and will lose.
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  #236  
Old 09-22-2019, 3:41 PM
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Gun owners here are considered on the same level as pedophiles. But I think even pedophiles are considered to be better because now they are being reclassified as a sexual orientation according to universities.

With that said, one person fighting against hundreds is never going to win. It's about as effective as urinating into the wind. Especially when the political climate here gets weirder every day. Take your tax dollars, labor, and sanity with you and move somewhere that's marginally sane. Especially a place where you can afford to own a home. I would not go into a synagogue and tried to convert all of the members to Christianity or Islam. The same reason I'm never one to try to change these people's minds.

Stay here if you want, eventually I think guns will be completely illegal in this state. Except for probably single shot.
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Old 09-22-2019, 3:43 PM
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I will join Hanko in Idaho as soon as I can.
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  #238  
Old 09-22-2019, 3:48 PM
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I will join Hanko in Idaho as soon as I can.
You'd be welcome, just bring the wimmen.

Shoot me a PM if you're looking to visit up here.

Refreshing to hear that you've no issues with no surfing in the ocean.
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  #239  
Old 09-23-2019, 6:50 PM
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Over the past month have been reading everything that's been posted here, but held back from responding because I didn't want to influence anything but now I think it's time to respond.

First off I am glad to see so many want to stay the course, I'll be honest I was hoping for that but wasn't sure that would be the consensus. I'd like to address everything that has been brought up but that would take a very long post so I'm going to stick with the high points.

Focus on a single ideology/limit discussion and interaction to strictly pro 2A:

This is deceptively attractive, it's easy to listen to those we agree with and even easier to dismiss or lock out those we disagree with. Not only does this avoid having our views challenged it 'reinforces' them.
It also blinds us and denies us opportunities to educate and share our views outside our circle.
However this openness comes with a cost and responsibility. We have to actually be willing to listen to other views, respond in a civil and articulate manner and remember that what we post isn't just read by the person we're responding to. I have continued what felt like pointless debates with people I knew were never going to listen to anything but their own points because I knew other who might have been more willing to to hear were reading too.
We need to remember that even the more innocuous discussion will be read by someone not openly involved in it and use that as an opportunity to teach.



Family friendly and SFW:

It seems that the overwhelming opinion is that we keep these two attributes and I very much agree. I believe that a significant aspect of fighting for our 2A rights is being overlooked or at least under-served and that is training and raising up the next generation of 2A advocates. We know we want to pass along not only our love of the shooting sports and hunting to our kids but also the right to engage in these activities.
This means we need to not only teach them firearms safety, hunting and shooting but the importance of the right to do so and how to hold the line against the loss of the right to keep and bear arms.

I know most of us do so with our family but we need more than that, we need to reach out. I'm really not sure how it would shape up but an idea I've had is to follow the model used in various other aspects of life and develop a '2A advocate' mentoring system. Teach people, young or not, how to engage in both the political and public appearance aspects of working to defend and regain our 2A rights. As I said I'm not sure how it would work but I do know we have a lot of smart and creative people here who can come up with ideas.



Focus on 2A vs. being a social community:

This one is sort of a trick question and many saw through it. We need to do both and I am damn glad to see so many responses adamantly advocating maintaining and even increasing our stance as a civil rights community.
We need to keep and grow our pro 2A position and efforts, it is the reason we exist, but we can't do that without the social community being strong too.

This brings up two responses to things mentioned in this thread.
First is the lack of organized real world meetings among our community. I don't just mean 'Let have a meeting to discuss..' I mean even the basic social 'Hey let's get together and..' type of stuff.
Yes, we're all (mostly) shooters in some form and meeting at the range is always fun but sometimes it's an effort as well. Sometimes it's just about meeting with friends to grab lunch or dinner or to just hang out and have a drink. And to be honest the hang out and have fun kinds of meetings have almost always been more productive than the organized meetings I've been to.
A lot of gun owners think they are 'alone'; either in their hobby, in their belief in and fight for 2A rights or even just in life. It's hard to keep fighting in any arena when you think you're standing alone, knowing not only are there others out there like me but knowing and several of them are just a mile or two away can be huge.
This has the added possibility of offering a fellow Calgunner who is having a hard time people they can talk to before getting any more down.

The idea has been mentioned in this thread of local meet and greets and get togethers, this is an awesome idea in my opinion. We've had a few here in the San Fernando Valley, Palmaris has opened his house to Calgunners a couple of times for what was essentially a backyard BBQ to hang out, eat and even show off some interesting firearms. These were great because we put faces to names and found out there's other interests we share as well.

I think the idea of local Calgunner groups is really interesting, it wouldn't have to be something formal, it could be if people wanted it but that's up to the people in the area. It could be as simple as posting 'BBQ in my backyard this weekend, bring something to throw on the grill and your most obscure firearm!' to a semi-formal monthly get together at a local place to hang out and discuss guns and 2A issues and actions.


These are just a few thoughts on how to move forward from here, since we seem to have chosen a course let me hear what you think.


As far as re-engaging in 2A activism, that's going to need a whole 'nuther post.
I have a few ideas to throw out and it will depend on how much you want to step in to the ring.
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  #240  
Old 09-23-2019, 7:46 PM
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Kestryll is why Calguns stays classy, and doesn't lose its head.

Thanks for all you do man. Don't change a thing.

As I said before; it's CA gun owners that need to make a change... back. Back to what was forgotten in a foggy several years, to take back those tools left on the side of the road while distracted changing the flat tire just to keep things rolling.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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