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  #1  
Old 11-24-2018, 7:25 PM
griggsy griggsy is offline
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Default Smith and Wesson warranty

So, Smith and Wesson is now blaming my handloads for their P.C. revolver failing. P.C. = Piece o' Crap! The gun has been back 3 times, twice for the same problem once to fix the damage they caused. Now that I've told them that the revolver still has the same issue with handloads using Hornadys manual they refer to their manual. They claim the 2 holes that always stick are due to pressure issues in the 460XVR. I've had this problem since day one, only two holes stick. I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER NEW SMITH AS LONG AS I LIVE. This gun is junk they clearly can't fix it, they use my honesty against me. I have never loaded any loads that even reach max in the book. So they clearly believe Hornadys data is wrong. Mean while I have to look into legal options, this is a PERFORMANCE CENTER 460 that can't shoot as well as a 44 mag at the same distance.NEVER NEVER NEVER BUY SMITH AND WESSON IF YOU'RE A HANDLOADER.
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2018, 8:10 PM
Hank15 Hank15 is online now
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Thanks for the heads up. I've had a few negative experiences with S&W as well, but Ruger doesn't make their own version of the 625 so I still had to snatch another S&W..
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:06 AM
griggsy griggsy is offline
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To where
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2018, 11:56 AM
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Hmmm, my 460XVR has never seen a factory load.
No issues here....
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2018, 1:58 PM
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I've got a 500 that's probably had 50 rounds of factory ammo and several thousand handloads through and it hasn't missed a beat.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2018, 2:36 PM
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I have only had positive experiences with them. Had an issue and they resolved in one try, but of course that was 8 years ago. Maybe things have changed..
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2018, 3:02 PM
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My $0.02, after you calm down call back and discuss it with a manager. Just stay on topic and don't lose your temper. I have read the S&W warranty and don't recall a prohibition on handloads - only on defective ammunition. I doubt S&W wants to tick off handloaders - particularly for their big-bore guns.

Your thought of looking into legal solutions are probably not realistic. A good attorney bills at $400 - $500 per hour. You could pay a top-notch gunsmith to fix your gun for less than what an hour talking to an attorney would cost, so unless you're in it to try and punish S&W I'd think twice about that.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2018, 3:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griggsy View Post
Mean while I have to look into legal options, this is a PERFORMANCE CENTER 460 that can't shoot as well as a 44 mag at the same distance.

NEVER NEVER NEVER BUY SMITH AND WESSON IF YOU'RE A HANDLOADER.
"Legal options"??...sounds like California.

I also have a ton of reloads through 7 or so S&W revolvers over the years with no issues.

As was posted, I'd slow down and talk politely to a supervisor at S&W.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2018, 7:53 PM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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By two hole sticking what are you referring to? 2 chambers in the cylinder are hard to rotate? If that's the case your cylinder could be out of time or your barrel need to be cut a hair due to rubbing. If you can get a 3 thousands feeler gage in front of each cylinder your gap is fine. Sometimes you need to widen that gap by a thousandth. Also your cylinder face might not be dead nuts flat.
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2018, 9:23 AM
robert101 robert101 is offline
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I took his "two hole sticking" reference to mean that two cylinder holes were tight. I'd first check to make sure factory ammo works well in your cylinders and does not bind. If so, then make certain your handloads are to SAAMI specifications. Do you have a case gauge to drop your reloads into?
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2018, 9:40 PM
checkenbach checkenbach is offline
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Get a reamer and work over the two tight holes. Problem solved. If worse comes to worse, replace the cylinder...
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2018, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shafferds View Post
By two hole sticking what are you referring to? 2 chambers in the cylinder are hard to rotate? If that's the case your cylinder could be out of time or your barrel need to be cut a hair due to rubbing. If you can get a 3 thousands feeler gage in front of each cylinder your gap is fine. Sometimes you need to widen that gap by a thousandth. Also your cylinder face might not be dead nuts flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
I took his "two hole sticking" reference to mean that two cylinder holes were tight. I'd first check to make sure factory ammo works well in your cylinders and does not bind. If so, then make certain your handloads are to SAAMI specifications. Do you have a case gauge to drop your reloads into?
I had both of these issues on one 1980s S&W model 28 highway patrolman. Two cylinders would stick after multiple rounds and the cylinder would hang up on the forcing cone after heat expansion. Gunsmith reamed out 2 cylinders and ground the cylinder face ever so slightly. All with factory ammo.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2018, 2:27 PM
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My friend is a die-hard S&W fan, his older S&W stuff he swears by and has been perfectly reliable but he said the new ones, even the performance center one he got, has had issues in recent years, at least his was dealt with warranty, sorry to hear you're having issues with that even, gotta be a sucky feeling spending decent amount of cash on a Performance Center version to have to deal with all that.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2018, 8:36 AM
griggsy griggsy is offline
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Default Smith & Wesson warranty

Let me clear up a few things.
1, 2 chambers out of 5 in the cylinder stick. Same two always.
2, gun has been back 3 times for repairs. Some of which were do to their carelessness.
3, this is a PERFORMANCE CENTER model and is a 1500 dollar turd not to mention the ammo and reloading supplies I've wasted.
Thanks for all the insight and suggestions, but I shouldn't have to pay a gunsmith to fix a lifetime warranty. Also the legal action comment yes I'm in commifornia buy wouldn't matter where I lived. All of us who purchase these products deserve to get what we expect not some piece of crap that ANY manufacturer decides is acceptable rather than correct.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2018, 9:09 AM
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I don't think I'd trust anything bigger than a J-Frame put out by S&W anymore...
They get pretty beat up from shooting the rounds they're supposed to shoot. Even L-frames have ejection rod backing out problems. The new K-frames have a bunch of cylinder problems from the fact they changed the gas ring system to make room for the full thickness barrel throat.

In terms of legal action... I think most manuals either say to only use factory ammunition or that damage "caused" by handloads voids the warranty. And unless you have a mechanical engineering or physics title the court will probably listen to the factory more than you.
Ruger fits cylinders to revolvers for $50 not including parts and shipping. I can't find any record online of S&W offering a similar service and I can't even find evidence that S&W even sells cylinders separate from the guns, but maybe you could ask about a similar service? Or just find a qualified gunsmith to fix your current cylinder.

As for the Performance Center tag... I don't think it means very much. I've heard of things like improperly installed barrels on them. I think they cut the parts to fit but that probably just makes timing problems more likely. You'd probably be better off getting a regular revolver, polishing the internals, and shooting or dry firing it a bunch, then installing a lighter spring (seriously, a big reason the PC trigger feels better is just because they have a lighter spring in it). For both the Match Champion and Performance Center tags, Ruger and S&W don't have time to dedicate to getting each unit perfect, nor are they incentivized to as they're not going to be the ones shooting it.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:36 PM
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Right from their Web Page.....https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/warranty
Warranty
LIMITED WARRANTY

For Owners Within The United States.

This warranty is granted by Smith & Wesson Corp. This warranty is effective from the date of purchase and applies to the original owner of any firearm. With respect to such firearms, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties.

Smith & Wesson firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Any such defects of which Smith & Wesson receives written notice within one year from the date of purchase by the original owner, will be remedied by Smith & Wesson without charge within a reasonable time after such notification and delivery of the firearm as provided below.

In the event of an emergency (repairs needed by law enforcement, an upcoming match or hunting trip), call 1-800-331-0852, ext. 4125 and ask for 911 Priority Repair Service. This allows you to speak with a Smith & Wesson representative. Immediately upon receipt, your firearm will be assigned to a gunsmith. After the work is completed, we will return your Smith & Wesson firearm via overnight delivery.

Warranty claims (in writing) and the firearm concerned should be delivered to Smith & Wesson’s Customer Service Department, 2100 Roosevelt Avenue, Springfield, Massachusetts 0 1104. In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included. It is important that the owner comply with all applicable federal, state and local laws and regulations in the shipment of firearms to Smith & Wesson. Warranty claims should state the model and serial number of the firearm concerned and the description of the difficulty experienced. It is recommended that shipments be insured by the owner, since Smith & Wesson will accept no responsibility for loss or damage in transit. Transportation and insurance charges for return to owner will be paid by Smith & Wesson if the claim is covered by the warranty. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL SMITH & WESSON BE RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WITH RESPECT TO ECONOMIC LOSS, INJURY, DEATH OR PROPERTY DAMAGE, WHETHER AS A RESULT OF BREACH OF THIS WARRANTY, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE. Some States do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.

Smith & Wesson will not be responsible for:

Defects or malfunctions resulting from careless handling, unauthorized adjustments or modifications made or attempted by anyone other than a qualified gunsmith following Smith & Wesson authorized procedures, or failure to follow the disassembly instructions in the Smith & Wesson manual.
Use of defective or improper ammunition,(Right Here....This is where they get you) corrosion, neglect, abuse, ordinary wear and tear, or unreasonable use.
Criminal misuse, negligence or use under the influence of drugs or alcohol.


Smith & Wesson’s Lifetime Service Policy begins after the warranty period has expired. Smith & Wesson will repair, without charge, for the lifetime of the original owner, any Smith & Wesson handgun purchased on or after February 1, 1989, and any M&P15 series rifle, that is found to have a defect in material or workmanship. Eligibility for this Lifetime Service Policy requires returning the Product Registration Card within 30 days of purchase. The Lifetime Service Policy covers functional defects; it does not include the firearm’s finish, grips, magazines or sights. The Lifetime Service Policy is in addition to and not an extension of the Smith & Wesson Warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from State to State.
And Here
Note: All liability is excluded in the event that the instructions in the Smith & Wesson manual are not observed.You can be the best Handloader in the World,

You Never Say You Were Shooting Handloads.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2018, 2:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griggsy View Post
...snip....
Thanks for all the insight and suggestions, but I shouldn't have to pay a gunsmith to fix a lifetime warranty. Also the legal action comment yes I'm in commifornia buy wouldn't matter where I lived. All of us who purchase these products deserve to get what we expect not some piece of crap that ANY manufacturer decides is acceptable rather than correct.
You are correct that you should not have to pay a gunsmith to fix a gun that has a lifetime warranty. However, do you want to spend a fortune and potentially months (year?) of frustration dealing with S&W and the courts ? Or do you want to pay $100 for a gunsmith to bore out 2 cylinders and enjoy shooting the gun the rest of your life without a worry ?

I know which one I would do, I would pay the little bit of money and enjoy the frustration free shooting

As to buying a product we deserve vs. what the manufacturer decides is acceptable, isn't that the way it is with EVERYTHING we buy ? try going to your FORD/Chevy dealer and get something super minor fixed when they don't think its a issue. Or try going to your BMW dealer and complain that the windshield wiper arm on the drivers side of your brand new BMW is not putting enough pressure and not wiping the windshield to a safe level, its leaving streaks in the middle...they were kind enough to put on 3 new wiper blades in about a month, I finally paid for the new arm and enjoyed the car. What the manufacturer decides is good enough and what the buyer decides is hardly ever the same thing, in everything, guns included. And 90+% of the time, not worth the hassle/frustration to argue about, there are exceptions...you may like the frustration.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2018, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griggsy View Post
They claim the 2 holes that always stick are due to pressure issues in the 460XVR.
Well of course it’s about the pressure. Also, the rough chamber surfaces. Do you use Hornady bullets with the loads specified in Hornady’s loading manual? Different bullets Could raise pressures. Have you tried polishing the chambers? Have you tried lower pressure factory loads?
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Old 12-04-2018, 6:55 AM
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Performance Center Revolver is crap. I know three people had to send their revolvers back for service. Problems straight out of the box.
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