Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:26 PM
guest1's Avatar
guest1 guest1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 926
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Sorry that I used your "logic" against your argument but, you felt the need to introduce numbers and, they obviously support my position.
I don't want to burst that bubble of yours. Carry on.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:34 PM
gpark09's Avatar
gpark09 gpark09 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 200
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
I like the play on words to completely benefit the Kingpin. Yes not being subtle here but when you remove something or someone from a building they’re no longer in the building. So if I have a maglock and a standard takedown pin am I actually removing the pin to rotate the receivers apart?

Humor me but in my gif above I AM removing the kingpin completely from the firearm. Rotating the receiver away and then dropping the magazine. By your definition the Kingpin is the ONLY legal takedown pin out there because it is actually removed.
When will Maglock Gen2 and KingPin for AR10 be available?

I was told it was supposed be in the market by the end of July.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 08-22-2018, 3:29 PM
lordmorgul lordmorgul is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 825
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

A semi auto is also not capable of cycling and reloading while the safety is on... lol! But it is still a whole and complete semi auto.

This is just like the argument that we could not “attach” a bullet button tool to the firearm because it became part of the firearm. If the tool is attached the mechanism does not require a tool anymore it has been modified to not require one by the presence of the attached “tool”.

The upper is very much attached while the rear pin is open and upper rocked forward until the forward pin is open and upper removed from lower. The firearm is still whole and retains all its characteristics. It’s a very slippery issue to argue and I won’t be that test case.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 08-22-2018, 5:18 PM
guest1's Avatar
guest1 guest1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 926
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
A semi auto is also not capable of cycling and reloading while the safety is on... lol! But it is still a whole and complete semi auto.

Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member

Your point is invalid since hh (2) covers that

(2) A mechanically whole semiautomatic firearm disabled by a gun lock or other firearm safety device is a semiautomatic firearm.

Try reading the entire section first
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 08-22-2018, 7:58 PM
protohyp's Avatar
protohyp protohyp is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,764
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpark09 View Post
When will Maglock Gen2 and KingPin for AR10 be available?

I was told it was supposed be in the market by the end of July.
its getting there. we had to make some adjustments on the cut out location so that it would function somewhat across the board. hang tight. they'll be available soon.
__________________
COUPON CODE : "protohyp" for 8% off at checkout on AR Maglock and Freedom Follower products



www.adaptivetacticalgear.com

www.armaglock.com

IN ADDITION:
Purchase any 2 locking kits and get 20% off
Purchase any 3 locking kits and get 25% off
Purchase any 4 or more locking kits and get 30% off



Kingpin and Hyperswitch FAQ and troubleshoot[/B]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1428078
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 08-23-2018, 2:07 PM
4GLOCK30 4GLOCK30 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 310
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popeye4 View Post
I see the fundamental problem is that as I understand it, the law only required the receiver halves be separated, it did not define how far. The DoJ in developing regulations added the distance requirement, which seems to go beyond what the law allowed them to do (what a surprise). The Kingpin setup seems to comply with the law but may not comply with the regulations, which also do not comply with the law. What a mess this blighted state is....
Quote:
Originally Posted by guest1 View Post
Can you please elaborate on the distance requirement please? Is this something new?
^^^+1

Popeye...can you provide what regulation does in fact say what the "distance" upper & lower would need to be separated?

If there is such a regulation....I missed that memo..
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 08-24-2018, 12:00 PM
tenemae's Avatar
tenemae tenemae is offline
Code Monkey
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ҚФꙦꙦѤ ꙆꚈҊԂ ™
Posts: 1,079
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
Popeye...can you provide what regulation does in fact say what the "distance" upper & lower would need to be separated?

If there is such a regulation....I missed that memo..
There is no such requirement. The distance is not addressed specifically therefore any distance that can be demonstrated to satisfy the other requirements will suffice. It could be 30 inches. it could be a millimeter. So long as:

Quote:
For example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum
... [such that] ...
the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function
If you are concerned about the "distance", separate them far enough that the hammer cannot contact the bolt when in the released position. That, in certain terms, demonstrates they have been detached to the extent that their function has been interrupted

(I am not a lawyer. That is not legal advice)
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 08-24-2018, 1:33 PM
4GLOCK30 4GLOCK30 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 310
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
^^^+1

Popeye...can you provide what regulation does in fact say what the "distance" upper & lower would need to be separated?

If there is such a regulation....I missed that memo..
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
There is no such requirement. The distance is not addressed specifically therefore any distance that can be demonstrated to satisfy the other requirements will suffice. It could be 30 inches. it could be a millimeter. So long as:



If you are concerned about the "distance", separate them far enough that the hammer cannot contact the bolt when in the released position. That, in certain terms, demonstrates they have been detached to the extent that their function has been interrupted

(I am not a lawyer. That is not legal advice)
I didn't think there was any "defined distance" the upper has to be separated, in terms of a measured distance.

I was asking Popeye4 where he got the info he posted that there was as another person also asked.

yeah I am not aware of any measured distance being stated in any regulation
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-28-2018, 12:22 PM
popeye4's Avatar
popeye4 popeye4 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Cruz mountains
Posts: 1,523
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
^^^+1

Popeye...can you provide what regulation does in fact say what the "distance" upper & lower would need to be separated?

If there is such a regulation....I missed that memo..
It isn't defined as a finite dimension, it is implied by saying the fire control group is separated from the action. I am assuming that means the hammer can't strike the firing pin (I don't know if that assumption is valid, but it seems reasonable to me). That means the two halves need to be separated by more than a mere few thousandths of an inch. I haven't measured the height of the hammer in my rifle, but the distance required to separate the receiver with the ARMaglock Gen 2 is about 0.025", which I figure doesn't disengage the hammer. The intent of the Kingpin is to allow the receiver to be slightly separated with the bolt retracted, which seems to be where it might step across the line.

And no, I don't want to be the test case, so I've uninstalled the Kingpin until either this gets resolved or I leave California.
__________________

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 08-28-2018, 2:47 PM
protohyp's Avatar
protohyp protohyp is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,764
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popeye4 View Post
It isn't defined as a finite dimension, it is implied by saying the fire control group is separated from the action. I am assuming that means the hammer can't strike the firing pin (I don't know if that assumption is valid, but it seems reasonable to me). That means the two halves need to be separated by more than a mere few thousandths of an inch. I haven't measured the height of the hammer in my rifle, but the distance required to separate the receiver with the ARMaglock Gen 2 is about 0.025", which I figure doesn't disengage the hammer. The intent of the Kingpin is to allow the receiver to be slightly separated with the bolt retracted, which seems to be where it might step across the line.

And no, I don't want to be the test case, so I've uninstalled the Kingpin until either this gets resolved or I leave California.


I am not sure everyone understand that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Kingpin. It doesnt matter what pin you have on there. The fact of the matter is that I dont even need to have ANY pin in the rear takedown.

Lock the bolt back and go ahead and separate the receivers and you WILL be able to open it enough for the Maglock to release the magazine even with a standard takedown pin, a juggernaut, a cal catch, a Cross Armory, etc, etc, etc.

The kicker here is that the bolt is in NO position to fire since it is over the hammer thus by default the action is interrupted.

Again this is the only system that allows for mag changes when it absolutely cannot fire but I dont need the Kingpin to achieve this.
__________________
COUPON CODE : "protohyp" for 8% off at checkout on AR Maglock and Freedom Follower products



www.adaptivetacticalgear.com

www.armaglock.com

IN ADDITION:
Purchase any 2 locking kits and get 20% off
Purchase any 3 locking kits and get 25% off
Purchase any 4 or more locking kits and get 30% off



Kingpin and Hyperswitch FAQ and troubleshoot[/B]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1428078
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 06-14-2019, 4:30 PM
igs igs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 218
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
The kicker here is that the bolt is in NO position to fire since it is over the hammer thus by default the action is interrupted.
By your definition, that anytime the bolt is locked back the action is interrupted, why is a maglock even needed then?

Bolt locks back on the last round. Drop the mag.
__________________
If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 09-10-2019, 4:32 PM
seal20's Avatar
seal20 seal20 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: On the Mountain
Posts: 2,458
iTrader: 190 / 100%
Default

Because the law says we have to have the mag "locked".... That's why.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 09-11-2019, 5:25 AM
ARDude's Avatar
ARDude ARDude is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Retired in Northridge, Ca
Posts: 1,791
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

This conversation is why I prefer the locked, featureless single shot assaulty type weapon.

If you are interested in converting your firearm to this configuration....
don't contact me!!
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:18 AM
shortround13's Avatar
shortround13 shortround13 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: East Bay
Posts: 252
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I rarely chime in on conversations like these, but been trying to bone up on CA since I will be moving back here soon (I know....)
Frankly I find it interesting, mostly because it scares the living piss out of me how vague and confusing all of these laws are.

I've been reading hours and hours of posts and PC (which hurts the brain) so forgive me for not quoting directly, rather paraphrasing a member's concern over the legality of removing a fixed magazine (with the receivers open/action interrupted etc) and now creating a transitional period where you have created an AW because it no longer has a "fixed magazine contained in"
I get that, but wouldn't it, the second you reinserted another magazine, just be a fixed magazine rifle again? The PC quote about "missing ammunition or ammunition feeding devices, it is still a semi-automatic", true, but without a magazine in there, how does that make it an AW? It still has a magazine lock device that will lock a magazine in again the second you put one in?

Not trying to stir the pot, just my thought and didn't see anybody else who brought it up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:05 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.