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Old 04-03-2022, 12:33 PM
Quicksandman Quicksandman is offline
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Default Flying with semi auto rifle parts.

Hello, I have a disassembled rifle that if put together would be unlawful in CA. I need to fly with the parts. (Detached upper and lower). Can I fly with these parts in the same hard, locked gun case? Flying from OC to Sacramento. Any info is appreciated.
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Old 04-03-2022, 12:39 PM
M1NM M1NM is offline
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Yes.
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Old 04-03-2022, 1:04 PM
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You should have no problem. I have never had issues picking up my luggage with declared firearms of any sort. YMMV
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Old 04-03-2022, 1:32 PM
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tsa does not care as long as in hard sided case with non tsa locks in checked baggage
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Old 04-03-2022, 2:09 PM
Quicksandman Quicksandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
tsa does not care as long as in hard sided case with non tsa locks in checked baggage
Ok sounds good. I just don’t want them to be like “hey if you put this together your a felon, let us just take this from you”. And loose $3000 worth of gun parts.
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Old 04-03-2022, 2:52 PM
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The locked declared firearm must be checked in inside a hard case. When I have flown with a handgun, the hard sided case goes in one of my suitcases that are checked in. My recollection is that TSA does not require magazines to be placed in that locked, hard sided case, but that they may not be carried on board since they are firearm parts. I once required by TSA to remove some from my carryon and my checked luggage was retrieved so that I could drop the magazines into one of them. Nothing was done other than several months later I received a nasty warning letter from the Federales.

I believe the reasoning was that a magazine per federal law is a firearm part, but for some reason this firearm part need not be in the locked, hard sided container. I may not correctly recall and possibly had to place the magazine inside the locked, hard sided firearm container.

My point is to very careful determing if firearm parts need by decalared and locked in the hard sided container.

Last edited by Chewy65; 04-03-2022 at 3:13 PM..
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Old 04-03-2022, 4:44 PM
Quicksandman Quicksandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
The locked declared firearm must be checked in inside a hard case. When I have flown with a handgun, the hard sided case goes in one of my suitcases that are checked in. My recollection is that TSA does not require magazines to be placed in that locked, hard sided case, but that they may not be carried on board since they are firearm parts. I once required by TSA to remove some from my carryon and my checked luggage was retrieved so that I could drop the magazines into one of them. Nothing was done other than several months later I received a nasty warning letter from the Federales.

I believe the reasoning was that a magazine per federal law is a firearm part, but for some reason this firearm part need not be in the locked, hard sided container. I may not correctly recall and possibly had to place the magazine inside the locked, hard sided firearm container.

My point is to very careful determing if firearm parts need by decalared and locked in the hard sided container.
So my real question is more about the type of rifle I’m flying with. It’s what CA would call an “assault rifle” when assembled. I’m declaring and checking my guns no problem but when they look at what I have will I get in trouble even though is disassembled and technically not a assault weapon?
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Old 04-03-2022, 4:53 PM
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TSA does not get involved in legality. of checked firearms. they are federal. Only cadoj/ leos care. I have travelled with ars with no serial numbers mfg from 80% with no issues for many years. If your that paranoid ship it to yourself usps.
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Old 04-03-2022, 4:59 PM
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I got asked to drag my heavy case all the to oversized at John Wayne one time around Christmas 2020. It was a hike with all my gear. They opened the case and saw my 300 blackout AR and a AR10 in 308. They asked some gun guy questions and I answered them while informing them that I was moving and taking as many as possible each flight. When they said close the case I asked if they wanted to see the rest. They said no and off I went. I had a second layer under the first. They saw them in the X-ray or whatever machine. They are more worried about leaving with my bow in Spokane. It is really an easy process.
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Old 04-18-2022, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksandman View Post
So my real question is more about the type of rifle I’m flying with. It’s what CA would call an “assault rifle” when assembled. I’m declaring and checking my guns no problem but when they look at what I have will I get in trouble even though is disassembled and technically not a assault weapon?
IMO TSA does not care nor look at the legality of your firearm. They are there to make sure you are NOT transporting anything that will go boom. Therefore they swab you gear for explosives; not CA laws. I seriously doubt wether TSA even knows CA laws. Don't sweat it. Traveling with a firearm is usually easy. I fly Alaska often and with one exception they are GTG. Locked up and not loaded; that's about all.
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Old 04-19-2022, 11:33 AM
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Put a cable loch through the front take down pin hole in your lower. Same with the upper. That way they can't be assembled together.
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Old 04-19-2022, 10:51 PM
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Quicksandman...

Lotta poor information here. Yes, the TSA doesn't understand or know CA gun laws much. But if something
gets diverted etc. local/airport cops can easily get involved and things can go sideways.


1. There's a specific codified exemption, 11 CCR 5471(hh)(3) which states:

"With regards to an AR-15 style firearm, if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are
completely detached from one another, but still in the possession or under the custody or control of the
same person, the firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm."
This ONLY applies to AR15-pattern firearms and should not be regarded as extrapolatable to other architectures.
(I note that a 'series' style argument could poss attack this provision.)

It will NOT apply to other architectures (say, FAL, HK etc.) - you don't get to add or delete extra words to a law
or regulation ("expresio unius") or generalize when those words just ain't there.

2. Metro DAs are getting real 'constructive possession-y" lately and may sustain a case until the very last minute,
with you having to burn lawyer $$$ or getting scared and accepting a plea. There are gooney non-metro DAs in
CA too.

In theory there is no 'constructive possession' of feature-based AWs, but as we've seen from the Nguyen case in
~2012ish the threshold has been raised. You should have a legit non-AW outcome possible with the parts combo/
items in your immediate possession to play for a lenity outcome if something happens.

At the very least you should have a fin/wedge grip and/or fixed-magazine gear and 10rd magazine(s) with you and
no hicaps. [You shouldn't exit CA & then try to reimport hicap mags anyway, even if you had them since 1999 or got
'em during 'Freedom Week' in April 2019 since Prop 63 killed 'reimportation', and the Duncan Fed injunction/stay
does not address this.] You should NOT have an old BulletButton in your possession. Best if your barrel doesn't have
a flash hider - this allows a featureless config easily.

3. If something goes sideways, local/airport cops get involved. They at bestight understand 'featureless' / fixed magazine
configurations to not be AWs.

4. Plan B is to transport the serialized receiver-side of the firearm with you and ship the 'other side' (no S/N, "not-a-gun")
to your home via mail/UPS etc. This still means you should have a collection of compliance parts hanging about so your
attorney, worst case, can dilute DA attempt to show AW constructive possession esp in case there are other charges (for
whatever reason) putting you in a place where you cannot testify in your own behalf.


Bottom line, if your gun is not a RAW, there should be measures taken place before entering CA to have it - even separated -
look like a non-AW.

This is not 2008-2011, Brown is not AG, and most CA DA offices have gone crazy.
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Last edited by bwiese; 04-19-2022 at 10:57 PM..
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2022, 11:04 PM
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Quicksandman...

Lotta poor information here. Yes, the TSA doesn't understand or know CA
gun laws much. But if something gets diverted etc. local/airport cops can
get involved and things can go sideways.


1. There's a specific codified exemption, 11 CCR 5471(hh)(3) which states:

"With regards to an AR-15 style firearm, if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are completely detached from one another, but still
in the possession or under the custody or control of the same person, the
firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm."
This ONLY applies to AR15-pattern firearms and should not be regarded as
extrapolatable to other architectures. (I note that a 'series' style argument
could poss attack this provision.)

It will NOT apply to other architectures (FAL, etc.) - you don't get to add or
delete extra words to a law or regulation ("expresio unius") or generalize.

2. Metro DAs are getting real 'constructive possession-y" lately and may
sustain a case until the very last minute, with you having to burn lawyer $$R
or getting scared and accepting a plea. There are gooney non-metro DAs in
CA too.

In theory there is no 'constructive possession' of feature-based AWs, but as
we've seen from the Nguyen case in ~2012ish the threshold has been raised.
You should have a legit non-AW outcome possible with the parts combo/items
in your immediate possession to play for a lenity outcome.

At the very least you should have a fin/wedge grip and/or fixed-magazine
gear and 10rd magazine(s) with you and no hicaps. [You shouldn't exit CA
& then try to reimport hicap mags even if you had them since 1999 or got
them during 'Freedom Week' in April 2019. You should NOT have an old BulletButton in your possession. Your barrel should not have a flash hider -
this allows a featureless config easily.

3. If something goes sideways, local/airport cops get involved. They at best
might understand 'featureless' / fixed magazine configurations to not be AWs.

4. Plan B is to transport the serialized receiver-side of the firearm with you
and ship the 'other side' (no S/N, "not-a-gun") to your home via mail/UPS etc.
This still means you should have a collection of compliance parts hanging about
so your attorney, worst case, can dilute DA attempt to show AW constructive
possession esp in case there are other charges (for whatever reason) putting
you in a place where you cannot testify in your own behalf.


Bottom line, if your gun is not a RAW, there should be measures taken place
before entering CA to have it - even separated - look like a non-AW.
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
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