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  #1  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:22 PM
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Default First shots with a Glock 21SF Gen 3. Aching wrists?

So, I got to the LGS at 8:10am this morning. Signed up. I was #36. I asked how long for pick-up, they said 2-hrs max... So, I waited in the car.

At 10:00am, I asked again and was told that there are still around 10+ people ahead of me. They added it will take an hour-and-a-half to 2-hrs. I asked if they can call me and I will just for an errand. "Sure thing..." was the reply.

So, I drove around and did my business. Around noon, I decided to drive back to the LGS, whence I got the call. I told them, I will be there in 20-mins.


....


Half-an-hour later, I walk out with a Glock 21SF.3 (about $575 OTD)...! The intent was to have a consistent shooting platform at home by replacing one of my HD pistols, a stock HK USP Expert 45 with the former.

But then, after not having shot live rounds in weeks and couldn't contain myself - I took a detour to the nearest range for some test fire.

I set the target to 15-yards (farthest for that range). Shooting cold, I managed to keep all shots within 3.75-inches, and a few flyers at the 5.25-inch mark. Granted that, compared to years back, I cannot focus on the front sight anymore (the front sight post is blurry). Ammo was factory Fiocchi 230GR.

Oh well, comparing with my HK, the Glock is a little bit imprecise (right word?). I would say that the HK's SA trigger puts the Glock at a slight disadvantage... But then, at HD/SD situations, does it really matter?

But what is interesting is that although I get (or feel) more muzzle flip with the HK, it was minimal with the Glock. With the Glock it was more of push/shove backward. But the "felt" recoil was more with the latter, especially in my wrists. Now, 5-hrs later, I still feel a slight ache in both of my wrists. Hhhmmm... Was it because I shot 100-rounds in a short span of time (I was in the range for a mere 30-mins)?

As for the fit? No, the grip doesn't fill wide/bulky or whatever most reviewers say (mind you, the Glock 21SF is an "old" model that appeared in 2011-something). Maybe I have good-sized hands?

Anyways, once this all COVID-19 situation is over, would try doing another live-fire check. Especially at 25-yards. I will still stick with my HK for now... Even if I already have the standard capacity magazines, have the Ameriglo Operator sights, WML and grip tape for the 21SF.





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Last edited by rodralig; 03-25-2020 at 6:26 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:27 PM
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I found the grip to be rather fat. But my hands aren’t huge either. Recoil is manageable but that’s the umph of the 45 especially in a polymer frame.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:28 PM
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Its garbage, ill take it off your hands for $300
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:36 PM
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Its been said by many HK > G. The two are not equal.
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
I found the grip to be rather fat. But my hands aren’t huge either.
It actually fits good in my hands. I can keep the proximal phalanx (I looked it up in Google) of my trigger finger more parallel to the slide compared to my other Glocks.

Quote:
Recoil is manageable but that’s the umph of the 45 especially in a polymer frame.
I see. As I would guess... I wasn't aware that it did NOT absorb (or mitigate?) as much recoil when compared to a 1911 or an HK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFlamaBlanca View Post
Its garbage, ill take it off your hands for $300
Hahaha!!!

You know I can probably sell it for twice the price considering the gun run we now have in California?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Ono View Post
Its been said by many HK > G. The two are not equal.
True! Maybe in accuracy... But didn't know it wasn't this much equal when it comes to recoil mitigation.


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  #6  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:46 PM
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I have a Glock 21 and 30, both non-SF, love them both. Have xl glove hands, close to 6 centuries old, only time any issues was recently shot some talon +p stuff, could really tell a difference than target rounds, but it had been a while since last shooting hotter rounds. Give it some time, couple more trips to the range, maybe have a buddy go with and see what they think?
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Old 03-25-2020, 6:55 PM
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Give the G21 some time...

Please report back with 25 yard report.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2020, 6:59 PM
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forgot to mention, so comfortable with my 21 that it's my primary nightstand gun sporting a TLR8
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:03 PM
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HK has double springs on its guide rod from the factory, which probably helps tame it some.

HK also has a slightly taller slide, which may absorb more felt recoil than on a G21 due to more slide mass, but also contribute to the snappier feel due to a higher bore axis and/or taller slide moving around. Also, an Expert is longer, which means more mass.

21SF is slim frame, so it fits better in the hands than a standard 21.

Assuming no limp-wristing, Glock grip angle combined with all of the aforementioned plus the caliber might potentially account for some of the discomfort. Sounds retarded, but while I can use a Glock like I can pick up and use any other generic handgun, I can't shoot them comfortably. I sent all my Glocks to Battle Ready Arms for their "razorback" grip angle fix. Charles at B.R.A. is a heck of a stand-up guy.
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:06 PM
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You could try shooting a lower grain. The underwood +p 45 with extreme defender is like 135gr. It will probably have a lighter felt recoil.

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  #11  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpage View Post
Give the G21 some time...

Please report back with 25 yard report.
Will do! And get some videos (also eager to try out a new sunglass cam)...

It is just that it usually takes me one range session, the first one straight out of the box, to get a feel of the gun. Maybe I am just tired/stressed from all the waiting/anxiety due to the pandemic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rudigan View Post
forgot to mention, so comfortable with my 21 that it's my primary nightstand gun sporting a TLR8
Nice! I got the new TLR7A... My G19 sports the TLR7 (no A). Compared to the TLR1HL, I hated how the 7s were activated...

And yes, same as you - the plan was for the 21SF to be my primary nightstand gun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
HK has a double springs on its guide rod setup, which probably helps some.
Ah! You're right. Forgot about that!

Quote:
HK also has a slightly taller slide, which may absorb more felt recoil than on a G21 due to more slide mass, but also contribute to the snappier feel due to a higher bore axis and/or taller slide moving around.
That what my thoughts, as well.

Quote:
Assuming no limp-wristing, Glock grip angle combined with all of the aforementioned plus the caliber might potentially account for some of the discomfort. Sounds retarded, but while I can use a Glock like I can pick up and use any other generic handgun, I can't shoot them comfortably. I sent all my Glocks to Battle Ready Arms for their "razorback" grip angle fix. I'm actually getting my 17 back soon and I'm quite excited. Charles at B.R.A. is also just a heck of a stand-up guy.
I am mostly a Glock shooter - in dry practice, classes, live fire training and competition. I am most comfortable with a Glock. Maybe it's what @9Cal_OC said about 45ACP in a Polymer frame. Maybe I could try another polymer chambered in 45ACP in some range rental...

Even a DE in 50AE wasn't this bad (but then again, it was just 15-rounds since it was $5/round at rental)...


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  #12  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirvimmy View Post
You could try shooting a lower grain. The underwood +p 45 with extreme defender is like 135gr. It will probably have a lighter felt recoil.
Let me try a 200GR low power factor (yeah, I still have some Freedom Munitions around)...


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  #13  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:43 PM
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Both wrists?

Seems the discomfort would be in the trigger hand, not so much the support hand.

Same pain in both?

Any other activities that might be the cause?

Stuck at home doing yard work?
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  #14  
Old 03-25-2020, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Guard View Post
Both wrists?

Seems the discomfort would be in the trigger hand, not so much the support hand.

Same pain in both?
Yes, the same discomfort for both wrists.


Quote:
Any other activities that might be the cause?

Stuck at home doing yard work?
I couldn't think of any. Although am WFH, it's the same as I do in the office - computer related.

And why only now...


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  #15  
Old 03-25-2020, 8:34 PM
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I seek to acquire this firearm. It's been on my radar for quite some time. I'm just hesitant to commit to yet another caliber
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  #16  
Old 03-25-2020, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
I seek to acquire this firearm. It's been on my radar for quite some time. I'm just hesitant to commit to yet another caliber
You don't have 45ACP in your repository?

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  #17  
Old 03-25-2020, 8:40 PM
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Exactly, you gotta commit to .45
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2020, 9:10 PM
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Not surprising since you’re used to the USP which has a unique recoil reduction system. I have a USP 9 and barely feel any recoil at all.

Also the 21sf is the thinner grip version so you have less surface area to distribute the recoil against your hand. I have a non-sf G21 I got it ppt practically unfired for $350 from someone with little hands, lol.

You may just need to shoot it a lot more and get used to it. I’ve got a XDS 45 as a CCW gun that I find really smooth whereas a lot of ppl think it’s painful to shoot. I used to feel the same way with .44 magnum before I started regularly shooting it. First time i shot a .460 S&W I was intimidated too. Now it’s no big deal.
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Old 03-25-2020, 9:30 PM
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I was pretty excited to pickup my 21SF. I learned on glocks, 22, 23, 19, and 17.

Honestly, I hated it. I put 100 rounds through it with new factory ammo. The trigger pinched and it felt bulky. The kick is excessive for crappy ammo making 350 ft lb of energy. I shot 10k rounds of .40sw making 350+ ft lb and it was more comfortable.

I reload though, so I figured I could step it down and change it around a bit. I shot 300 more reloads in 230g with 3 or 4 different powders, with many different charges. The gun itself ran everything I could throw at it, but it just wasnt fun to shoot. The frame is too chunky and ergonomics too off to feel right in the hand.

I sold it right after that. I liked literally nothing about the g21sf and I was glad to see it go and havent missed it for a second.

I'm really not a 45acp fan. Its out dated, underpowered, and really very very old... but its a damn classic! Its 45acp! So I bought a 1911 and I quite enjoy my 1911 that round. A glock in 45acp is just silly. If you're going for the big frame with lots of kick, get a 10mm/g20sf. Its still big, bulky, and probably hurts your wrist too... but when grizzlys break into your house, you'll be ready
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Old 03-25-2020, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Guard View Post
Both wrists?

Seems the discomfort would be in the trigger hand, not so much the support hand.

Same pain in both?

Any other activities that might be the cause?

Stuck at home doing yard work?
Yeah, running the weedwhacker makes me sore all day.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:06 PM
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Congrats! Love my G21SF too! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomReloaded View Post
I was pretty excited to pickup my 21SF. I learned on glocks, 22, 23, 19, and 17.
More or less similar... I am mostly a G34 shooter first and a G19 next. I have the G26 for carry, the G17 for my 12-yr old, and started with the G22.

Quote:
Honestly, I hated it. I put 100 rounds through it with new factory ammo. The trigger pinched and it felt bulky. The kick is excessive for crappy ammo making 350 ft lb of energy. I shot 10k rounds of .40sw making 350+ ft lb and it was more comfortable.

I reload though, so I figured I could step it down and change it around a bit. I shot 300 more reloads in 230g with 3 or 4 different powders, with many different charges. The gun itself ran everything I could throw at it, but it just wasnt fun to shoot. The frame is too chunky and ergonomics too off to feel right in the hand.
I don't reload (no space at home / wife still hasn't approved the rig) so I am stuck with factory. So far, the grip/frame is good - no issues with that... Although I can't seem to release the slide with the slide lock/release lever, and had to do an overhand rack. I am not sure if it is per design (other Glocks don't have the same limitation) or it's just new. I will see if replacing it with the lever from the G34/G35/G41 does make a difference.

Quote:
I'm really not a 45acp fan. Its out dated, underpowered, and really very very old... but its a damn classic! Its 45acp! So I bought a 1911 and I quite enjoy my 1911 that round. A glock in 45acp is just silly. If you're going for the big frame with lots of kick, get a 10mm/g20sf. Its still big, bulky, and probably hurts your wrist too... but when grizzlys break into your house, you'll be ready
The G20SF is next in line to get.


That said, "... shoot the heaviest bullet in the largest caliber that is loaded as hot as you can effectively control it to deliver two well-placed shots in the quickest possible time..."

Will still have to see how effectively I can control it... And, if it's indeed fun to shoot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpia is sarap!® View Post
Congrats! Love my G21SF too! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you!!!

But, the verdict is still out if I also get to enjoy a 45ACP Glock...


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Old 03-25-2020, 10:37 PM
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I love my G21 very accurate my kids enjoy shooting it and that is actually my 17yr old sons back up pistol when we hunt.
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:04 AM
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wow
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Old 03-26-2020, 3:58 AM
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Can’t go wrong with a G21. Have both the SF / Non SF. Enjoy them both. Looking for a G21 Picatinny Rail Model to round up my collection.
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Old 03-26-2020, 5:50 AM
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Lots more recoil versus your competition guns and a different grip angle that probably has you cocking your wrist higher to get sight alignment.
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Old 03-26-2020, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudigan View Post
I have a Glock 21 and 30, both non-SF, love them both. Have xl glove hands, close to 6 centuries old, only time any issues was recently shot some talon +p stuff, could really tell a difference than target rounds, but it had been a while since last shooting hotter rounds. Give it some time, couple more trips to the range, maybe have a buddy go with and see what they think?
You sir, are a real man. I wouldn't shoot +P in my 21
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Old 03-26-2020, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Lots more recoil versus your competition guns and a different grip angle that probably has you cocking your wrist higher to get sight alignment.
Interesting. Didn't feel any awkwardness when gripping the pistol to aim, albeit, it was just slow fire in an indoor range. I will need to check that out (had to come to the office today since there are issues with my work laptop).

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Old 03-26-2020, 7:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Interesting. Didn't feel any awkwardness when gripping the pistol to aim, albeit, it was just slow fire in an indoor range. I will need to check that out (had to come to the office today since there are issues with my work laptop).

_
What is your normal competition gun? Compare the grip angles and extrapolate the differences in your wrist position on target between the two. It may be an explanation...or it may not be.
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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 03-26-2020 at 7:20 AM..
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Old 03-26-2020, 7:19 AM
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What is your normal competition gun?
Glock 34 Gen 3.

Always factory 115GR loads (don't/can't reload).

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Old 03-26-2020, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
So, I got to the LGS at 8:10am this morning. Signed up. I was #36. I asked how long for pick-up, they said 2-hrs max... So, I waited in the car.

At 10:00am, I asked again and was told that there are still around 10+ people ahead of me. They added it will take an hour-and-a-half to 2-hrs. I asked if they can call me and I will just for an errand. "Sure thing..." was the reply.

So, I drove around and did my business. Around noon, I decided to drive back to the LGS, whence I got the call. I told them, I will be there in 20-mins.


....


Half-an-hour later, I walk out with a Glock 21SF.3 (about $575 OTD)...! The intent was to have a consistent shooting platform at home by replacing one of my HD pistols, a stock HK USP Expert 45 with the former.

But then, after not having shot live rounds in weeks and couldn't contain myself - I took a detour to the nearest range for some test fire.

I set the target to 15-yards (farthest for that range). Shooting cold, I managed to keep all shots within 3.75-inches, and a few flyers at the 5.25-inch mark. Granted that, compared to years back, I cannot focus on the front sight anymore (the front sight post is blurry). Ammo was factory Fiocchi 230GR.

Oh well, comparing with my HK, the Glock is a little bit imprecise (right word?). I would say that the HK's SA trigger puts the Glock at a slight disadvantage... But then, at HD/SD situations, does it really matter?

But what is interesting is that although I get (or feel) more muzzle flip with the HK, it was minimal with the Glock. With the Glock it was more of push/shove backward. But the "felt" recoil was more with the latter, especially in my wrists. Now, 5-hrs later, I still feel a slight ache in both of my wrists. Hhhmmm... Was it because I shot 100-rounds in a short span of time (I was in the range for a mere 30-mins)?

As for the fit? No, the grip doesn't fill wide/bulky or whatever most reviewers say (mind you, the Glock 21SF is an "old" model that appeared in 2011-something). Maybe I have good-sized hands?

Anyways, once this all COVID-19 situation is over, would try doing another live-fire check. Especially at 25-yards. I will still stick with my HK for now... Even if I already have the standard capacity magazines, have the Ameriglo Operator sights, WML and grip tape for the 21SF.





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Old 03-26-2020, 8:18 AM
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First, that is some dedication. You waited like 3-4 hours to pick up a pistol? That's fricken nuts!

I have a 21SF and a 41 and I think the 21 with the larger slide just shoots better overall (I have the same opinion between the 30SF and the 30S).

As for not being able to see the front sight, maybe glasses or LASIK is in order?

As for the recoil, the HK has a higher bore axis, so it is likely to feel more "flippy" when firing.

As for your wrists, the .45ACP is a manly round. #TwoWorldWars
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Old 03-26-2020, 8:25 AM
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Gotta love those 21's. My Gen2 has well over 25K through it, a lot of it being steel-cased Russian ball. Not much finish left on the slide anymore, and lots of scratches and wear everywhere else. Rifling in the barrel is still good enough. All I've done to it is to have a Glock armorer replace the trigger, and I installed steel night sights, and carefully reduced the two finger lumps.
It is easily one of the softest shooting .45's out there.
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Old 03-26-2020, 8:51 AM
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Possibly Arthritis sir
Hopefully not. Eyesight got really bad this year.


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First, that is some dedication. You waited like 3-4 hours to pick up a pistol? That's fricken nuts!
Well, 2-hrs! The other 2-hrs was for the drive and doing some errands.

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I have a 21SF and a 41 and I think the 21 with the larger slide just shoots better overall (I have the same opinion between the 30SF and the 30S).
There was a 41 MOS in the Marketplace. Was really tempted to get it for $1,200. But then COVID-19... And the market was tanking, etc.

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As for not being able to see the front sight, maybe glasses or LASIK is in order?
I am farsighted (as in really FAR) - and the front sight at full-extension is just at that sweet spot that is blurry.

I asked about that - I am too late for LASIK. It will again get bad.

As for glasses - any recommendations on setup? I have heard about bifocals, progressives, etc. However, we have unique needs as shooters, right?

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As for your wrists, the .45ACP is a manly round. #TwoWorldWars
Fine! I just got used to shooting 9s... Time to bring this out:



Hahaha!!!


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Old 03-26-2020, 9:32 AM
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Glock 34 Gen 3.

Always factory 115GR loads (don't/can't reload).

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Then my hypothesis is all wrong. Glock 21 has the same grip angle is the Glock 34.
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Old 03-26-2020, 9:41 AM
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My USP45's felt recoil is significantly less than my SA 1911. It's not just the weight to be considered. There are some guns with excellent recoil spring designs (like the HK) and some guns with an operating mechanism that lends itself to lighter felt recoil (ex: Beretta PX4's rotating barrel).

Edit: well.. I was quoting Mayor who mentioned something sarcastic about a heavier all steel gun being able to tame recoil better than a cheap plastic gun, but the comment was deleted or disappeared.

Last edited by iareConfusE; 03-26-2020 at 9:45 AM..
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Old 03-26-2020, 9:52 AM
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My USP45's felt recoil is significantly less than my SA 1911. It's not just the weight to be considered. There are some guns with excellent recoil spring designs (like the HK) and some guns with an operating mechanism that lends itself to lighter felt recoil (ex: Beretta PX4's rotating barrel).
Interesting! I haven't shot my SA MCO in a long long time. I guess I have an agenda for my next range outing - HK USP Expert 45, SA 1911 MCO and the Glock 21SF. Looking forward to seeing how they compare to each other...


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Old 03-26-2020, 9:57 AM
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I had a G21, didn't work for me. The grip is just too big to comfortably control. Bought a 21sf that I like much better. It is still a handful though and not as much fun as my 1911.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:07 AM
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I have a 21SF, and some other 45ACP handguns including 1911s, 2011s, and a Ruger Blackhawk.

The 21SF is the softest shooting of the lot by far. It's not the most accurate, but it hits the 35-yard and 50-yard steel animals at Angeles just fine. I have a Dawson fiber optic front and Warren plain rear sight on it.

I don't own any H&K USPs, but I have shot the USP45 at LA Gun Club. It recoils softer than the 21SF but is REALLY flippy. Like the muzzle is pointing straight up before coming back down on target.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:12 AM
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I don't own any H&K USPs, but I have shot the USP45 at LA Gun Club. It recoils softer than the 21SF but is REALLY flippy. Like the muzzle is pointing straight up before coming back down on target.
*nod*

This is a video 2-years back when I took the HK for a run with the IDPA 5x5 Classifier. If it weren't for that "malfunction," I may have made EX (good thing, that is)...




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