12 gauge hulls

[rubbman]

So in the event that I decide to reload 12 gauge, are there any particulars that I should be collecting? I save all my "hi brass" shells, is there a better method??

[edgerly779]

AA'S Remington green hulls

[rsrocket1]

Actually all Remington hulls have the same internal volume so the load data is the same which makes it a great hull for reloading. The only real difference is that some hunting loads have a six fold crimp rather than the 8 fold crimp. The wall thickness is good and it holds a crimp well. Winchester AA's are coveted and are good hulls for reloading but the internal volume is smaller. Other Winchester hulls have the same volume as AA's but are usually junk with very thin walls. These are the Universal and Super X hulls. Fine for shooting new, worthless for reloading.

Federal Hulls have considerably more volume in them which make them good for heavy loads but use more powder than Rem and Win hulls for high volume target shooting. Many also have a paper base so don't pick them up unless you've shot them yourself or saw them shot because if the paper base gets wet, it can fall out on a reload and block the barrel.

Many "brass" bases are just brass washed steel bases. Nothing wrong with them. The steel is a very mild steel and will resize just fine. You can test them with a magnet. High base/Low base makes no difference nowadays.

My preference is any Remington hull. Gun Club, black, Nitro, they all use the same load data and are good for many reloads. If you reload them and don't use Remington primers, you'll need to drill out a tiny bit of extra plastic at the top of the primer hole with a #1 drill bit otherwise you'll have a tough time seating a Winchester or Federal primer because the Rem primers are tapered at the top and the other primers are straight.

Hope you're doing OK with the fire up there.

[Rockzilla]

Just got back into reloading 12ga. myself after a long time
from it, just lost interest.Fortunately I have a bit of components,
lead shot, primers, wads, powder. Somehow my hulls went
south. Anyway the ole one piece AA's, Nitro's, STS's, also the
NEW AA's but prefer the older ones, some say the Gun Clubs
are okay. Some people don't reload 12ga. that much when you
can buy a flat cheaper, then kick in rebates. Have fun and enjoy.

Be safe...

-Rock

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by rsrocket1

My preference is any Remington hull..... If you reload them and don't use Remington primers, you'll need to drill out a tiny bit of extra plastic at the top of the primer hole with a #1 drill bit otherwise you'll have a tough time seating a Winchester or Federal primer because the Rem primers are tapered at the top and the other primers are straight.

I agree, with the small exception that I have never had a problem seating Winchester primers or firing Remington shells with Winchester primers. I've never had to modify one, and I've reloaded and shot literally thousands of reloaded Remington hulls with Winchester primers installed.

I much prefer the Remington Nitro (gold) and Premier (green) hulls - they reload almost endlessly, and hold very good crimps. The older AA hulls are great as well, but the newer ones seem very problematic for me. The Remington Gun Club are cheap hulls that many leave on the ground at the trap and skeet ranges, but they reload surprisingly well - I've never had any issues with them other than the "6 or 8" crimp pattern you mentioned.

I have a pretty good pile of the blue Peters hulls as well, and they are almost indestructible.

[BOBGBA]

Originally Posted by rsrocket1

...My preference is any Remington hull. Gun Club, black, Nitro, they all use the same load data and are good for many reloads. If you reload them and don't use Remington primers, you'll need to drill out a tiny bit of extra plastic at the top of the primer hole with a #1 drill bit otherwise you'll have a tough time seating a Winchester or Federal primer because the Rem primers are tapered at the top and the other primers are straight...

I've been reloading 12 gauge Remington hulls (Gun Club, Nitro 27, STS, Nitro Premier and American Clay & Field) for about 5 years and have not had any problem using Winchester primers. Haven't tried Federal Primers.

[trackcage]

I like Remington gun clubs, but I dont mind federals either. Yea they take a little more powder and a different wad, but the supply is endless, whereas the AA's and Remingtons are picked up where I usually find my hulls. Never had an issue with a wet Federal base wad although I usually only pick up what I shot myself.

[Tom-ADC]

When I first started maybe 40 years or so ago we used to save everything to reload then we found out if you find one you like just save those and give or trade the rest away. I was on active duty then, I shot a lot of skeet on various base ranges got hooked on AA's and the bases seemed to have an abundance of them. I sold my presses a few months ago I gave the spare empty cases to the buyers some of these cases were from back then.
Bottom line find one you like and stick with it.

[Revoman]

The above stated cases AA/Rem are all good, no problem with different primers here either. High or low base, no sweat.
The hulls will last longer with a lighter load.
8 star crimp works better than 6 star in my opinion too.
Biggest problem with hulls, and wads for that matter, is shelf life. They both become brittle stored over time, they will split or break.

[Thefeeder]

Originally Posted by rubbman

So in the event that I decide to reload 12 gauge, are there any particulars that I should be collecting? I save all my "hi brass" shells, is there a better method??

You should be collecting one or two types of hulls mentioned in the posts.

Mixed batch of hulls are worthless as they are all different and need different components and loader adjustments.

No need to save high brass as you can load low brass to any heavy or max load that you want in them. The exception is 3" and 3 1/2" as those are all high brass.

Again no need to have a bunch of mix matched hulls.

[at_liberty]

Originally Posted by rubbman

So in the event that I decide to reload 12 gauge, are there any particulars that I should be collecting? I save all my "hi brass" shells, is there a better method??

This can be like when everyone likes the same powder, bullet, or primer. To avoid supply worries you can explore other alternatives. I have an issue with Win AAs, because they (new shells) cost 10 cents each more than some alternatives. To get a rebate you also have to ruin each box cutting out the bar code token. Blank boxes are costly and don't hold up well. You wind up dumping shells in a bag and wondering how many you have. Either that or all your boxes are patched. It's just lame, and the shells are still more expensive than alternatives.

My issue with Remingtons is that the parent is bankrupt, and the future of the supply is in doubt. They are TOO popular. I am currently using Fiocchi Target that reloads well at least once. After that I have to watch for out of round when the 6 point crimp overworks the hull mouth. The Fiochhi 2 3/4", 7/8 oz shells take a Lightning wad.

[Carcassonne]

I personally like the straight hulls better than the tapered hulls. Reloaders who shoot a lot prefer tapered hulls.

Some things I found out when I reloaded shotshells (These may NOT be true today).

1) All straight hulls (sometimes called Euro Trash) are basically the same. They are all made on the same machinery. I checked the volume of Nobel, Challenger, Chedite, RIO, Fiocchi, Estate, and Federal hulls by filling them with water and weighing them. All of them held the same amount of water, so their internal volume is the same which means you should be able to use the same load data for any straight walled hull.

2) All tapered hulls are basically the same. There are only 2 companies that make tapered hulls: Winchester and Remington. I filled several different Winchester and Remington hulls with water and weighed them. They all held the same amount of water, so their internal volume is the same which means you should be able to use the same load data for any tapered hulls.

3) Just because the base looks brass doesn't mean it is brass: Check with a magnet. Brass is preferred by a lot of reloaders. There are only a few hulls that have actual brass bases. Federal Gold Metal (paper and plastic), Remington Nitro and STS, Winchester AA (gray and red).

4) High base shells are no stronger than low base shells. High base shells are left over from the days of black powder and paper hulls. The only benefit to high base hulls is they won't get jammed in some guns like the Remington 870.

5) There is a difference between replacement wads and clone wads. Clone wads are an exact clone: They have the same dimensions but may have a different color. Just because the wad looks the same doesn't mean it is a clone. Replacement wads, such as Down Range, do not have the same dimensions but can be used with the same load data as the wads they are replacing.
https://www.downrangemfg.com/
https://www.claybusterwads.com/

6) Not all 209 primers are the same size. Some are slightly larger in size (Nobel). Some reloaders use this to their advantage. As a hull is used, the primer pocket gets bigger. After several reloads the primer will no longer stay in the pocket. A larger primer will fit these pockets.

7) I like the Ballistic Product's PT wads (use to be called Helarco VP wads). They have a lot of load data for them.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/PT...partments/393/
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/loadoftheweek.htm (go to the bottom of the page and click "Archived Loads")

8) Don't be afraid of steel shot. You will eventually have to load steel shot in California anyway. I like Ballistic Product's PT1253 and PT1251 wads.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/No.../products/395/
Steel shot is a little cheaper per load than lead shot. The load size isn't the same for lead and steel. I think 1/8 to 1/4 ounce less for steel equals the same amount of pellets as lead. You need to go up in pellets size for steel (usually 2 numbers: From #6 lead up to #4 steel) to equal the same mass per load and energy down range.

9) Check out Shotgun World reloading section. https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...96db7cb3e43635
There is a Euro Hull forum at the top of the page.



.

[Pardini]

Originally Posted by at_liberty

This can be like when everyone likes the same powder, bullet, or primer. To avoid supply worries you can explore other alternatives. I have an issue with Win AAs, because they (new shells) cost 10 cents each more than some alternatives. To get a rebate you also have to ruin each box cutting out the bar code token. Blank boxes are costly and don't hold up well. You wind up dumping shells in a bag and wondering how many you have. Either that or all your boxes are patched. It's just lame, and the shells are still more expensive than alternatives.

My issue with Remingtons is that the parent is bankrupt, and the future of the supply is in doubt. They are TOO popular. I am currently using Fiocchi Target that reloads well at least once. After that I have to watch for out of round when the 6 point crimp overworks the hull mouth. The Fiochhi 2 3/4", 7/8 oz shells take a Lightning wad.

No need to ruin AA boxes. Just score the paper around the UPC code on the box with a razor knife. Stick the tip under one corner and peel it up and off the box. Your only removing the printed layer. The cardboard underneath stays intact.

[at_liberty]

Originally Posted by Pardini

No need to ruin AA boxes. Just score the paper around the UPC code on the box with a razor knife. Stick the tip under one corner and peel it up and off the box. Your only removing the printed layer. The cardboard underneath stays intact.

Good trick. Many thanks.

[rsrocket1]

Originally Posted by at_liberty

My issue with Remingtons is that the parent is bankrupt, and the future of the supply is in doubt.

If you make a few "hull whore" trips to the range followed by taking home more hulls than you shoot for a year or two, you won't care if Remington goes under and they stop making shotshells (very very unlikely).

I have a couple of leaf bagsful and a couple of 5 gallon buckets of Gun Club hulls and if I never took home a hull I haven't shot myself again, I'd still be set for at least a lifetime's supply. The problem is if I see a field full of brand new GC hulls, I can't help myself . You can reload GC hulls at least a half dozen times without any problem and there are documented cases of people shooting them over 12 times. They don't look pretty at the end but they chronographed at full velocity with the same loads as once fired. For me, I shoot 'em until the petals get crispy or the primers won't stay in the pocket, then I toss 'em.

[DueceMcGurk]

AA Rem greens.

[BOBGBA]

Originally Posted by at_liberty

...My issue with Remingtons is that the parent is bankrupt, and the future of the supply is in doubt. They are TOO popular. I am currently using Fiocchi Target that reloads well at least once. After that I have to watch for out of round when the 6 point crimp overworks the hull mouth. The Fiochhi 2 3/4", 7/8 oz shells take a Lightning wad.

Are you reloading hulls from shells you bought new, or are you scrounging up hulls from the range?

You won't use Remington Hulls because they are "TOO" popular" and the "future supply is in doubt"? Remington hulls can be reloaded well many many times. Use them while you can. If they stop making them, the earth was probably struck by an asteroid, so it really won't matter. You can always switch to a different hull if Remington hulls disappear. They are popular for a reason.

But if you'd rather use Fiocchi shells that reload well once, that's your call.

[beetle]

if you are going to buy new shells with the intent of reloading them then my order of preference is:

1) Remington STS/Nitro - true brass base, smooth plastic makes terrific crimps
2) Remington American Clay and Field - steel base, smooth plastic
3) Winchester AA - true brass base, less internal volume
4) Remington Gun Clubs - steel base, textured plastic

Even though I prefer buying and saving Remingtons, be aware that Remington hulls typically have a great degree of variability in hull length.

AAs are a little lower on my list because they are a little more finicky to load -- they have less internal volume, have to be aware of the inner ring, and typically will have a tiny hole in the crimp (even factory AAs have this hole). doesn't affect performance but it's my OCD coming through.

Also be aware that hulls with steel bases may be a little harder to resize then hulls using brass bases. Depends on your loader. It doesn't matter much on presses that use a collet resizer (MEC), but may make a difference on presses that use a ring resizer (PW,Spolar).

On the other hand if you are talking about collecting hulls from the range, then for me I pretty much take whatever is there. And in most cases it's a "once and done". I actually kinda like the fiocchis because they are clear. You just need to have the right components and wads to load of euro hulls.

[at_liberty]

Originally Posted by BOBGBA

Are you reloading hulls from shells you bought new, or are you scrounging up hulls from the range?

You won't use Remington Hulls because they are "TOO" popular" and the "future supply is in doubt"? Remington hulls can be reloaded well many many times. Use them while you can. If they stop making them, the earth was probably struck by an asteroid, so it really won't matter. You can always switch to a different hull if Remington hulls disappear. They are popular for a reason.

But if you'd rather use Fiocchi shells that reload well once, that's your call.

I didn't say that I wouldn't use Remington, but have your fun bullying my post.

[Revoman]

Dontcha just love how the OP circled back to close this thread with acknowledgement of all of these replies?
Makes ya feel warm and fuzzy don't it?

[BOBGBA]

Originally Posted by at_liberty

I didn't say that I wouldn't use Remington, but have your fun bullying my post.

Correct, you didn't say you wouldn't use Remington hulls. But from what you wrote, listing the "issues" you had with Remington, it seemed implied. No bullying intended, I just didn't understand/agree with your reasoning. Too each their own...

[PoorRichRichard]

ZOBBIE TREAD RESURRECTION!!!

But seriously, given the current shortage of ammunition, I thought it prudent to bump because it has some great info for new shotshell reloaders.

I actually found this thread via a Goggle search because I was looking for an answer to why one of my Mec presses would not fully seat non Remington primers in my Gun Club hulls. I found the answer in the 3rd post. CalGuns comes through again

[devster55]

Yeah with this shortage I’m not gonna be able to shoot trap this season. I’ll continue shooting but I burned through my last 400 shells the other weekend. I have plenty of 3” and 3-1/2” steel shot and can find that so I may just shoot clays with them lol. I am more then stocked to shoot all of my centerfired and rimfire ammo I just never thought I’d see the days that 12ga target ammo disappears.

[tabascoz28]

For a while, because of the shortage, people were shooting their STS hulls too. Now I have a color coded collection used to delineate clay, buck 00, buck 4 and slug rounds.

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by devster55

Yeah with this shortage I’m not gonna be able to shoot trap this season. I’ll continue shooting but I burned through my last 400 shells the other weekend. I have plenty of 3” and 3-1/2” steel shot and can find that so I may just shoot clays with them lol. I am more then stocked to shoot all of my centerfired and rimfire ammo I just never thought I’d see the days that 12ga target ammo disappears.

Not clear if you reload, or not. If not it might be a good time to start. Sportsman's Warehouse has shot ($40/bag) and wads, primers haven't gone crazy like SP, and shotgun powder is still around.

Originally Posted by tabascoz28

For a while, because of the shortage, people were shooting their STS hulls too. Now I have a color coded collection used to delineate clay, buck 00, buck 4 and slug rounds.

STS hulls are premium hulls, and can be reloaded many, many times. I was a big AA fanboy until they changed to the new hull. I tried STS and never looked back. I have a lifetime supply of STS and the older green Premiere hulls on-hand, so if anyone needs some, just shoot me a PM.

[md2020]

Originally Posted by PoorRichRichard

ZOBBIE TREAD RESURRECTION!!!
...

I actually found this thread via a Goggle search because I was looking for an answer to why one of my Mec presses would not fully seat non Remington primers in my Gun Club hulls. I found the answer in the 3rd post. CalGuns comes through again

Interesting... I have a MEC press and I have no problem seating Winchester, Cheddite or Fiocchi printers in Gun Club hulls.

I also have the Ultimate Primer Punch mounted on my MEC. But I was having no problems before I got that.

[the86d]

I NEED to find my 200 209 primers!!!

I have the Lee Load-all 2, but no shot, nor wads, PLENTY of powder, for now...
Maybe I should just flip it, for a profit until this all calms down, as they are going for $112.72-$192 with UPTO $35.63 shipping... on Amazon, "right now"?

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by the86d

I NEED to find my 200 209 primers!!!

I have the Lee Load-all 2, but no shot, nor wads, PLENTY of powder, for now...
Maybe I should just flip it, for a profit until this all calms down, as they are going for $112.72-$192 with UPTO $35.63 shipping... on Amazon, "right now"?

Wads and shot are readily available. Every sportsman's warehouse I've been to has them.