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  #1  
Old 11-25-2020, 9:45 PM
blake1546 blake1546 is offline
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Default Buying an ar pistol lower

I am trying to buy a registered pistol lower, I have come to a deal with a guy who has one, it is registered as a pistol, although it was through the single shot exemption. I have been told that the ppt can’t be done because of that exemption. Am I out of luck? How can this be transferred? A few gun shops said they would not do the paperwork because of it and would have to change it to a rifle lower and that totally defeats the purpose. Please help if you know anything
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Old 11-25-2020, 9:51 PM
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The only AR pistol worth buying is one that has previous DROS paperwork showing semi auto handgun, and *not* frame only. That is my opinion. And few FFLs will touch anything else.

There is no fix for your particular issue. That lower is worthless. Perhaps if the seller assembled it into a complete single shot pistol you could find a FFL to transfer it as roster exempt single shot again (straight pull bolt action??), then you'd have an off roster single shot pistol that could never legally be converted to semi auto in CA.

This is what you want:

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-25-2020 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 11-25-2020, 9:57 PM
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If it was recently DROS’d as a “single shot handgun”, then it must stay a single shot, dimensionally compliant handgun.
If it was purchased back during the days of “SSE 1.0”, then it’s just a private party transaction and the dealer needs to DROS it correctly.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:05 PM
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As was stated above, that lower is worth $125, the same price as any other lower in California. It is only the proof of semi auto pistol DROS status that makes it valuable.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:20 PM
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All correct no converting to semi from single in Ca as well. Contact shootsocal in Orange county and ask Dave the procedures to dros as single shot.
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Old 11-26-2020, 7:04 AM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=112


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Hi SkyHawk...

Very open question/defendable especially if the gun transitioned thru single-shot status to semiauto and was 'virgin nonsemaiuto' to begin with.

AB1964 legislation changed wording only in minor ways, effectively restricting the single shot exemption to "guns that were never semiauto".
This does not mean various unused design features but only if actual semiauto status (incl factory testing) existed.

Note that SSE transition to semiauto was done all the way up to 2014.

The process was even inspected by DOJ, field agents are available for testimony as such, and shop inventory was approved for sale. Boatloads of SSE transactions went on in front of DOJ's noses (ie. sales during inspections/audits) for several years.

It was so legal that they changed the law. And only slightly.

They were thinking of blocking all the Sig and 1911 off-Roster variants. They really weren't thinking of virgin receiver buildups.

THE LAW DID NOT CHANGE IN THIS RESPECT (single shot/bolt action etc to semiauto). It only addded, essentially, the "virgin nonsemiauto" status requirement.

Additionally, DOJ writings from a Deputy AG indicated it was quite legal to buy a Rostered Glock and send it to Smyrna to put a left handed safety on it. That itself alone transitions the gun outside of Rostered status, just like using aftermarket magazines (say, CMC) in your Rostered Springfield 1911. [I specifically note that guns are tested/rostered with supplied magazines as exemplar, not "any magazine that fits". Changing parts in a magazines actually should make a gun fall off the Roster now with DOJ's new interpretation of "minor changes = new gun to certify with microstamping."]

The DOJ has a terrible burden because they do not have a 'priority list' of substitutable [or not] parts. For them to hold a position that a gun cannot be modified to another legally possessable state, this would preclude (1) generic replacement/repair parts, (2) generic magazines. The law has no exclusion for these.

Additionally, the single shot exclusion in PC 32100b - only slightly tweaked by AB1964 - still has the "32000PC shall not apply to...".

[When I posted the 'recipe' in summer of 2011 here on CGN, it was read by various parties, including ATF legal. Word got back to me thru 'a person in the room' that ATF - who actually does understand CA law - even praised the accuracy.]

I submit that DOJ will not bust somebody with the above for at best a misdemeanor Roster violation esp given the murkiness. AW violations? sure. All busts of stuff involving AR pistols seem to involve AW issues only.

This otherwise has the potential to get into "OK so that violates the Roster, you mean we can't use ordinary generic replacement wear & tear parts or generic magazines?" Hello Magnusson-Moss warranty act, etc. [Do you lose your GMC warranty and & emissions compliance for using a Fram oil filter or generic battery terminal? - rough equivalent]

So no, you can't SSE a gun that was already a semiauto (like we did 2007-2013 or whenever AB1964 kicked in.

But if you build up a gun, in non-AW form, from a virgin frame into a true single shot configuration - and do the serialization drama etc. - then convert to semiauto nonAW form you've moved thru a neutral zone to legal possession.
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Old 11-26-2020, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
The only AR pistol worth buying is one that has previous DROS paperwork showing semi auto handgun, and *not* frame only. That is my opinion. And few FFLs will touch anything else.

There is no fix for your particular issue. That lower is worthless. Perhaps if the seller assembled it into a complete single shot pistol you could find a FFL to transfer it as roster exempt single shot again (straight pull bolt action??), then you'd have an off roster single shot pistol that could never legally be converted to semi auto in CA.

This is what you want:

So do you think a "Yes" on a "Frame/Receiver Only" will cause issues? I am getting ready start a PPT from the seller who's original DROS was a new handgun semi-auto frame only like the picture below.


Last edited by lechi1980; 11-26-2020 at 9:29 AM..
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2020, 11:58 AM
blake1546 blake1546 is offline
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Ttt
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2020, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lechi1980 View Post
So do you think a "Yes" on a "Frame/Receiver Only" will cause issues? I am getting ready start a PPT from the seller who's original DROS was a new handgun semi-auto frame only like the picture below.

My opinion is yes, it is a risk. A frame only cannot be semi auto. If you build a semi auto firearm on it, you are building an 'unsafe' handgun.

I would not buy one like that and likely many others would not either. So hopefully you are getting it cheap.
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Old 11-27-2020, 1:20 PM
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a virgin stripped receiver that is DROSed as a "rifle", "pistol" or "shotgun" makes it any one of them when, it clearly does NOT meet the legal definition of any of them. SO, until that happens, I contend it is 100% legal to build any legal firearm you want to from a virgin stripped receiver as long as you are not violating any other laws. So, pre 2014, I contend it was legal to purchase a virgin lower, manufacture it into a roster exempt handgun and later, change it to a semi auto. I also contend that today, one could legally DROS a virgin Rem 700 receiver, DROSed as a "rifle" and build a single shot, bolt action pistol with it. I have spoken to ATF and they don't give a rat's azz how a virgin receiver is DROSed in CA. So, can someone please post the actual CA law making it illegal to do so.
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  #11  
Old 11-27-2020, 2:29 PM
yoitszo yoitszo is offline
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Thought I'd share other opinions from r/CAguns: https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/comm...m_source=share

Hope that helps.

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