Advice on acquiring a Winchester 1897 Trench gun

[SDDAVE56]

Originally Posted by 19K

I had a norinco trench gun. It broke after like 20-30 rounds.

I have a Norinco Trench Gun. Purchased new in 2005 or thereabouts. Approximate round count to date, 250-300. No mechanical problems with it.

[SDDAVE56]

Couple of pics

[19K]

Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead

I am getting a Norinco Trench gun, what part(s) broke on yours after that limited number of rounds?

Have not read of people complaining they broke easily - at least prior to the above post.

It would feed and cycle fine but would only fire if I manually pushed the shell carrier up about 1/8-1/4inch. Took it back to the shop the same day. They couldn?t diagnose it, they filed a warranty repair through the importer and gave me store credit. This was back in 2010. I ended up just buying an original 1897. Mine was made in 1912. Shoots and fires fine.

[SDDAVE56]

Can the originals handle slug, and 00 Buck?

[Rogerbutthead]

The originals in WWI used Buckshot.

The Wiki states:

While shotguns had been used in earlier conflicts, the trench warfare phase of World War I demonstrated need for standardized weapons and ammunition. Initial issue with each shotgun was one hundred commercial-production paper-cased shotgun shells containing nine 00 buckshot pellets 0.33 inches (8.4 mm) in diameter. These cartridges became wet in the muddy trench warfare environment; and swelled paper cases would no longer chamber reliably. Full-length brass cartridges proved more resistant to moist field conditions and the repeated loading and unloading during patrols and watches when no ammunition was fired. Some of these early brass cartridges had an unusual saw-tooth crimp.

http://gunlore.awardspace.info/shotgun/oldshells.htm

[19K]

Originally Posted by SDDAVE56

Can the originals handle slug, and 00 Buck?

Yes.

I?d be concerned about firing slug and buck thorough a full choke though.

[Imageview]

The short barrel versions are generally either originally cylinder choke or cut down full choke barrels which are now cylinder choke.

[Rogerbutthead]

I bought three Winchester 1897s - one with a cut down barrel and two Norinco Trench guns. Also, a Winchester Model 12.

That should satisfy my urge to own slam fire scatterguns.

Thanks for all the help and to the member here who sold me his Norinco.

[NapalmCheese]

No Ithaca 37?

[Rogerbutthead]

I have an Ithaca 37, but never fired it so I don't know if it is an early one that can slam fire.

https://ithacagun.com/serial-numbers/

The above site seems to indicate my Ithica was made in 1975 - one of the 37151XXX series. Not sure if my gun was made early enough in 1975 to be a slam fire variant or not, next time I pull it out from deep in the safe where it is, I will try it with some snap caps.

It's number four from the right if anyone can tell by just looking at it.



Yeah, yeah, I have an undiagnosed hoarder compulsion.

[NapalmCheese]

You need a Stevens 520 too

[Rogerbutthead]

...unfortunately, running out of room in my safes. Gonna have to move things around before I go on another buying spree...

JMBrowning got around, didn't he?

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

No Ithaca 37?

And don't forget a Western Field model 30.

[bigbossman]

Speaking of Ithaca 37's, here's a decent (refinished?) one at auction:

https://brandusedworks.hibid.com/lot...un?ref=catalog

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by bigbossman

And don't forget a Western Field model 30.

Aren't those just a Stevens 520? My Sears Ranger 30 is.

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

Aren't those just a Stevens 520? My Sears Ranger 30 is.

Yes. Or at least a variation. But if you're going to collect you need to get all of them!

[Killer Bee]

for those close enough to LSB

Winchester Model 97 Riot Gun Solid Frame 1897 12 GA 20.25" Shotgun C&R

[BOBGBA]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

for those close enough to LSB...

I'm close enough to LSB, but my wallet is far from having enough for that one.

[Rogerbutthead]

SDDAVE56, I notice you have a 1907 leather sling on your Norinco.

I had two different reproduction 1907 slings but neither will fit the hook end thru the buttstock sling attachment. Did your sling just fit without adjustment or did you have to either widen the sling attachment or file off some of the hook end to get it to fit?

This is what I have ended up with so far, a Norinco with a British bayonet for the P14 rifle and what I think is one of my spare FN 49 slings.



The other results - include 2 old Winchester 1897's - one whose lifters don't retract in and need a finger push to close the action and a cut barrel 1897 to make it look like a riot gun. This Home Depot cabinet had the scratch on it brand new in box - guess done in Vietnam. The other shotguns include a Stevens, a Winchester Model 12 and a Model 1200.



Thanks for the help.

[SG29736]

The SASS shooters did not and could not tell the legislature we'll allow you to pass a 10 round mag limit and make a safe handgun roster if you'll exempt tube fed rifles and single action revolvers. Of course these laws shouldn't have happened in the first place. After the fact it was determined that these limitations were not what was intended when it came to leveraction rifles and single action revolvers. They were concerned about primarily semiauto guns with removable magazines. SASS explained to their state representatives how the cowboy guns functioned. The initial law was intended to limit magazine capacity but was worded in a way that it didn't consider other types of guns. That's all there is to that story. How powerful do some of you think a couple of thousand cowboy shooters in Ca. are.? Why didn't the powerful cowboy shooters vote out Newsome?

[SG29736]

Remembering a little more on the subject. At that time SASS held it's world championship match in southern Ca. each year. After the 10 round limit happened many out of state SASS members expressed concern about coming to California with rifles that held more then 10 rounds. SASS sought out information from the Attorney General to get confirmation that the 10 round limit would not be enforced against shooters with tube fed rifles. I believe they got a letter confirming that but I'm not 100% sure. Eventually SASS moved their headquarters and the championship match to New Mexico. There are still a lot of SASS clubs in California.