2023 state Constitutional Carry bills: 1 1/2 wins FL (CC only, 26) & NE (27)

[Paladin]

Below is the national map as of 2022 Aug 23. After Labor Day (Sept 05, less than 2 weeks away), lawmakers will start discussing their priorities and bills for the session beginning in 2023 January.



(Last year?s thread linked here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1745453)

The ones I?ll be watching for are NE, MN, WI, MI and PA in the North and LA, FL and SC in the South.

2023 Wins: FL (26) & NE (27)

[FreemanG]

The ones I’ll be watching for are NB, MN, WI, MI and PA in the North and LA, FL and SC in the South.

The abbreviation for Nebraska actually changed to NE in 1969

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by FreemanG

The abbreviation for Nebraska actually changed to NE in 1969

Thx, OP fixed.

Guys, the Radical Gunnuttery map is Off Topic. While I used to know and communicate with its owner/creator that was way back in the Packing.org days…. IIRC it has changed hands at least once since then. Complaining/suggestions about it on CGN are pointless.

This thread is about the fight for Constitutional Carry in state governments around the country. Please stay focused on that. That will keep this thread useful.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by FreemanG

The ones I’ll be watching for are NB, MN, WI, MI and PA in the North and LA, FL and SC in the South.

The abbreviation for Nebraska actually changed to NE in 1969[/QUOTE]

There could be others that sneak into the picture. Many states have their legislative elections in November. Sweeping victories could make it a reality.

[CGZ]

That needs to be updated to show the may issue states as shall issue.

IMO FL is the one most likely to pass. LA would require a majority to over ride the governor's veto, other states will depend on midterm results.

[lastinline]

Originally Posted by CGZ

That needs to be updated to show the may issue states as shall issue.

How do you figure that? California, New York, and likely Hawaii (three examples) are now using “Good Moral Character” as a denial mechanism. Nothing has changed. They are still effectively “May issue”. Open defiance of Bruen is now the gold standard for democrat legislatures to strive for.

[LonghornBob]

Originally Posted by lastinline

How do you figure that? California, New York, and likely Hawaii (three examples) are now using “Good Moral Character” as a denial mechanism. Nothing has changed. They are still effectively “May issue”. Open defiance of Bruen is now the gold standard for democrat legislatures to strive for.

At least 3 "shall issue" states, IL, MN, PA, as described in Bruen have "good moral character requirements" that are within the discretion of the issuing authority. A state has historically been considered "shall issue" as long as there wasn't a showing of need to carry. The map should be revised one way or other (either add these states as "May Issue" or label the states of CA, DE, HI, MA, MD, NJ, NY, and RI as "Shall Issue").

Illinois - IL Public Act 098-0063 sec. 10(a)(4) - “The Department shall issue a license to carry a concealed firearm under this Act to an applicant who: does not pose a danger to himself, herself, or others, or a threat to public safety as determined by the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board in accordance with Section 20.”

Minnesota - MN 624.714 sd. 6(a)((3) - “The sheriff must, within 30 days after the date of receipt of the application packet described in subdivision 3: deny the application on the grounds that there exists a substantial likelihood that the applicant is a danger to self or the public if authorized to carry a pistol under a permit.”

Pennsylvania - PA 18 sec. 6109(d)(3) - “The sheriff to whom the application is made shall: investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.”

[Spartan5305]

The elites will not allow you petty serfs to harm them. You will never have that freedom. You can wish and hope but the fact is that judges look at average people as serfs. The elites will never allow for that

[redhead]

I can hardly wait to move to Idaho.

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by redhead

I can hardly wait to move to Idaho.

Sorry, but Idaho is closed!

[redhead]

Originally Posted by BAJ475

Sorry, but Idaho is closed!

It will be going back home for me.

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by redhead

It will be going back home for me.

OK, You will be welcomed back!

[One in the pipe]

It'd be better if they had reciprocity with AZ so I could drive through or fly into the state.

I can now go to most states, but the left coast.

[Reno-Kid]

Nevada, shall issue, Lol, I had no issue. CCW appointment and paperwork was more geared to residence status and proof. Mailed out under 60 days.

[Paladin]

Man, this thread has gone to off topic crap….

Moderators in name only AWOL as usual.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

(Last year’s thread linked here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1745453)

The ones I’ll be watching for are NE, MN, WI, MI and PA in the North and LA, FL and SC in the South.

Well, after DEM candidates won/held MI, WI and MN governorships we can scratch those off of our watch list. That narrows it down to NE, PA, FL and SC.

FL looks like a sure bet in either ‘23 or ‘24, while the GOP has a trifecta (governor with majority in both Senate and Assembly/House.

[Baja Daze]

These quotes are from the 2022 thread:

Originally Posted by Baja Daze

Well we now have 25 states, so that leaves 25 states still to go, however, I would exclude for now all the states that currently DO NOT honor any other state permit. These states will be the biggest challenge and are not the low hanging fruit that we seek!

Here are the 10 states (+D.C.) that currently DO NOT honor any other state permit: CA; CT; HI; IL; MD; MA; NJ; NY; OR; RI, + D.C.

This leaves us with a potential field of 15 states remaining for permitless carry!

Originally Posted by Baja Daze

Okay, so of the 15 most likely states, they break down roughly into three distinct geographical areas of five states each:

West: Colorado, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico and Washington.

South: Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia.

Great Lakes: Delaware, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

(Last year’s thread linked here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1745453)

The ones I’ll be watching for are NE, MN, WI, MI and PA in the North and LA, FL and SC in the South.

Well, after DEM candidates won/held MI, WI, MN and PA governorships on Nov 08, we can scratch those off of our watch list. That narrows it down to NE, LA, FL and SC

FL looks like a sure bet in either ‘23 or ‘24, while the GOP has a trifecta (governor with majority in both Senate and Assembly/House).

NE is favored to pass too.

I’m not sure about LA and SC, but I’d put both at over 50% in favor of passage.

So, my guess is we’ll win 2 to 4 states in 2023.

I haven’t read anything suggesting NC or VA might push for it.

NV has a new GOP governor, but he’s a former sheriff and RINO and has spoken out publicly against Constitutional Carry.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Well, after DEM candidates won/held MI, WI, MN and PA governorships on Nov 08, we can scratch those off of our watch list. That narrows it down to NE, LA, FL and SC

FL looks like a sure bet in either ‘23 or ‘24, while the GOP has a trifecta (governor with majority in both Senate and Assembly/House).

NE is favored to pass too.

I’m not sure about LA and SC, but I’d put both at over 50% in favor of passage.

So, my guess is we’ll win 2 to 4 states in 2023.

I haven’t read anything suggesting NC or VA might push for it.

NV has a new GOP governor, but he’s a former sheriff and RINO and has spoken out publicly against Constitutional Carry.

VA has a Dem-controlled Senate, so that's off the list. But there are elections in 2023, so a big year may get them to a trifecta and make it possible.

NE seems to have the numbers needed but I don't know if the new Governor is receptive to it or not. Then we also need to know if Rhinos are in key spots as usual. They're seemingly been behind the curve on CC for some reason.

LA had 3 defectors in the state senate that "voted for it before they voted against it". They were the reason the Governor's veto wasn't overridden 2 years ago. This year is an election year so we'll see if that perhaps convinces them to change their vote or at least stand firm after the Governor's sure veto.
SC has always been a tough one as well. The numbers are there and the governor is receptive to it, but it seems like the SC system allows for the minority to have a lot of power to endlessly stall gun bills. There's also SLED's influence (SC Law Enforcement Division). SLED has shown themselves to be anti-gun time and time again and weak Rhinos always defer to them. SLED is obviously anti-CC, and even getting better reciprocity is fought against tooth and nail. A special law had to be passed to specifically carve in neighboring GA to the reciprocity list. Add in the stupid law that SC doesn't recognize reciprocal permits from non residents (i.e. you are a CA resident with a FL permit visiting SC; SC doesn't recognize it; if you were a FL resident you would be recognized) and you have numerous state's residents unable to legally carry there.

[bwiese]

Paladin -

Const. Carry is nice feelgood symbolism but is _almost_ useless due to
Gun Free School Zone Act (as amended in IIRC '96?).

No exemption at Fed level for GFSZ crossings (except property ownership)
other than a carry permit issued by that state/locale. Neither Const Carry
nor reciprocity from another state's CCW exempt loaded/unlocked transit
thru a GFSZ.

Most people, even locals, prob don't know all the GFSZ in an area... all
these are problems or at least problematic (lawyer$$$ + court fight +
appeal)...
- things like church K-3 day schools (esp if accredited by some org)

- commercial trade schools receiving school funds for HS student training
and part of their school schedule/grades/course planning/graduation
requirement;

- closed/unused school property not fully decommissioned. It's still a school
til it's not, and operational status is irrelevant. Quite a few such cases
may not show up on recent maps due to nonoperational status.

- schoolzones are irregular (often) in shape. The 1000' boundary is from
that irregular exterior *edge*, not the *center* of the property.
Common confusion when I've talked w people about this.


GFSZ needs to be fixed, but sadly not enough votes - plus some GOPers in
suburban soccer mom areas - "OMG guns around schools" - same crap as
those GOPers here in CAP (part of ABAG) that have tried to shut gun shops
down "because school kids might see them".

[DentonandSasquatchShow]

Didn't Bruen, in theory, make every state a SHALL issue state?

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by bwiese

Paladin -

Const. Carry is nice feelgood symbolism but is _almost_ useless due to
Gun Free School Zone Act (as amended in IIRC '96?).

No exemption at Fed level for GFSZ crossings (except property ownership)
other than a carry permit issued by that state/locale. Neither Const Carry
nor reciprocity from another state's CCW exempt loaded/unlocked transit
thru a GFSZ.

Most people, even locals, prob don't know all the GFSZ in an area... all
these are problems or at least problematic (lawyer$$$ + court fight +
appeal)...
- things like church K-3 day schools (esp if accredited by some org)

- commercial trade schools receiving school funds for HS student training
and part of their school schedule/grades/course planning/graduation
requirement;

- closed/unused school property not fully decommissioned. It's still a school
til it's not, and operational status is irrelevant. Quite a few such cases
may not show up on recent maps due to nonoperational status.

- schoolzones are irregular (often) in shape. The 1000' boundary is from
that irregular exterior *edge*, not the *center* of the property.
Common confusion when I've talked w people about this.


GFSZ needs to be fixed, but sadly not enough votes - plus some GOPers in
suburban soccer mom areas - "OMG guns around schools" - same crap as
those GOPers here in CAP (part of ABAG) that have tried to shut gun shops
down "because school kids might see them".

Absolutely correct. That I why I have a WA permit despite the fact that both my ID and UT are recognized in WA. The change could be simple: A person who is authorized to carry in the jurisdiction is exempt from the federal prohibition.

[bwiese]

BAJ475..

Originally Posted by BAJ475

Absolutely correct. That I why I have a WA permit despite
the fact that both my ID and UT are recognized in WA. The
change could be simple: A person who is authorized to
carry in the jurisdiction is exempt from the federal prohibition.

Yup, and why I have NV CCW for my Vegas trips (have a rental there) -
even though it'd be easier to get an AZ or UT CCW with local CA training
and then run on AZ/UR->NV reciprocity.

And I sure as hell don't know where all the school zones are on Warm Springs Blvd are
(esp all the little sidestreet tributaries off it) either, with schools & churches.)

Note that violation of GFSZ '96 (i.e., as amended) - even though a Fed misdemeanor
and even if you were let off with a simple fine - will lose your gun rights, since it can
be sentenced as a misdemeanor with >1 yr penalty. (Loss of gun rights with Fed is less
felony vs misdemeanor than Felony vs under 1yr sentence max.)

A state-level fix - depending on the phrasing - might be for a state to say that another
state's permit is considered as an issued permit in that state. In other words, it's
not reciprocity - it's now equivalency.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by bwiese

Most people, even locals, prob don't know all the GFSZ in an area... all
these are problems or at least problematic (lawyer$$$ + court fight +
appeal)...

…

GFSZ needs to be fixed, but sadly not enough votes - plus some GOPers in
suburban soccer mom areas - "OMG guns around schools" - same crap as
those GOPers here in CAP (part of ABAG) that have tried to shut gun shops
down "because school kids might see them".

If we have momentum to win CC, I say go for it. The more people that carry, the more political clout we have and the more support the NRA et al get. If we get 35 or 40 CC states, I’d expect some ambitious federal legislator to propose GFSZ repeal legislation.

If GOP win next presidential election I expect SCOTUS to kill it before 2036.

[TruOil]

Rhinos in Florida have blocked such bills from ever getting to a vote three years running. Not sure that the Governor's threats will change any of that after another effort in a special session also ended in failure.
Louisiana has proved to be tough nut. They loosened their rules, but I think the governor there has gone as far as he ever will go. He has vetored bills in the pst.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by TruOil

Rhinos in Florida have blocked such bills from ever getting to a vote three years running. Not sure that the Governor's threats will change any of that after another effort in a special session also ended in failure.
Louisiana has proved to be tough nut. They loosened their rules, but I think the governor there has gone as far as he ever will go. He has vetoed bills in the pst.

The GOP has added quite a few seats in both the state senate and house. They now have super majorities in both. This seems like they should be able to get it through this time as they have plenty of room even if some Rhinos peel off.

The question is are there anti-CC Rhinos at committee chairs or that lead one of the chambers that could single-handedly stop a bill?
We've seen this in other states where the wrong person in the wrong spot stops bills year after after year, then when theyre gone the bill blasts through with overwhelming support.

[TruOil]

Originally Posted by press1280

The GOP has added quite a few seats in both the state senate and house. They now have super majorities in both. This seems like they should be able to get it through this time as they have plenty of room even if some Rhinos peel off.

The question is are there anti-CC Rhinos at committee chairs or that lead one of the chambers that could single-handedly stop a bill?
We've seen this in other states where the wrong person in the wrong spot stops bills year after after year, then when theyre gone the bill blasts through with overwhelming support.

A very powerful and senior Rhino has single-handedly blocked it every year. It never gets to a committee vote, much less a floor vote.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by TruOil

A very powerful and senior Rhino has single-handedly blocked it every year. It never gets to a committee vote, much less a floor vote.

Is this Rhino still there in the same position? And does FL perhaps have a mechanism like some other states where they can bypass the committee vote with large enough numbers?

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by TruOil

A very powerful and senior Rhino has single-handedly blocked it every year. It never gets to a committee vote, much less a floor vote.

He's not gonna tilt at windmils, because it needs 60 votes not 50 to bypass cloture
and he doesn't have the votes.

Can't blame him for practicalities - or identifying 'candidate quality' as a reason for
losses.

[Paladin]

FLORIDA

DeSantis says he’s ready to sign CC bill.

The governor already is on record supporting constitutional carry legislation, which would allow people to carry guns in public without a concealed weapons permit. He reiterated his support for the proposal when asked about it Thursday, and then turned to state House Speaker Paul Renner to ask "are you guys gonna do it?"

"Yes," Renner responded.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/...s/69731040007/

[press1280]

Originally Posted by bwiese

He's not gonna tilt at windmils, because it needs 60 votes not 50 to bypass cloture
and he doesn't have the votes.

Can't blame him for practicalities - or identifying 'candidate quality' as a reason for
losses.

We were talking about the FL legislature here.

It sounds like you are referring to Mitch McConnell and the US Senate?

[press1280]

NC has a Dem governor. GOP is one seat away from being veto proof, so at least 1 Dem would need to sign on: https://ncpolicywatch.com/2022/11/09...al-key-issues/

Not sure if CC is even on the radar there.

[TheNinja]

The more I read about this the more I just get infuriated that the government would DARE to tell me that I'm not allowed to defend myself.

The government is basically forcing me to choose between being a target and a victim who can't use a firearm to defend my family or being a criminal who carries illegally.

Man....that just isn't right at all. Government can't protect us and won't protect us but will not let us constitutionally carry to protect ourselves. What a sick feeling.

[Paladin]

Looks like there may be a massive fight brewing over CC in FL, a fight that we are likely to win!

IMO FL passing CC will give it a boost in LA and SC and even a minor boost in NE and PA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ts/ar-AA14Icbo

[mshill]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Looks like there may be a massive fight brewing over CC in FL, a fight that we are likely to win!

IMO FL passing CC will give it a boost in LA and SC and even a minor boost in NE and PA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ts/ar-AA14Icbo

Another hack job piece by MSN throwing shade on 25 states that have CC, implying that crime is up 13-15% due to lax gun laws and that tourist from all over the world will freak out because everyone will have a gun on their hip (open carry). When in fact the rise in crime cannot be attributed to changes in gun laws and in CC states you seldom see anyone OC. It's been more than a year since Utah passed CC and I have seen exactly one person OC same as I saw in the year prior to it passing.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by mshill

Another hack job piece by MSN throwing shade on 25 states that have CC, implying that crime is up 13-15% due to lax gun laws and that tourist from all over the world will freak out because everyone will have a gun on their hip (open carry). When in fact the rise in crime cannot be attributed to changes in gun laws and in CC states you seldom see anyone OC. It's been more than a year since Utah passed CC and I have seen exactly one person OC same as I saw in the year prior to it passing.

It's because they lazily quote Everytown, who puts no context behind the numbers. Unless the increase in crime rates is due to legal gun owners suddenly going bad, it means there are more criminals out on the street committing more crimes.
The question that should be asked is how many of these additional crimes are due to recidivist criminals let out by Soros DAs.

[Paladin]

NEBRASKA

Things sound good for CC passing in NE this coming legislative session (begins Jan 04).

https://www.klkntv.com/nebraska-sena...ative-session/

[Paladin]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ates-rcna64947

Bottom line: FL is a sure thing; NE has a solid chance; LA and SC are long shots

[Paladin]

NEBRASKA

State Sen. Tom Brewer’s renewed “constitutional carry” gun-rights bill leads this week’s initial group of Unicameral public hearings on bills sponsored by western Nebraska senators.

The Gordon lawmaker’s other four regional colleagues are among the 26 cosponsors of Legislative Bill 77, which the Judiciary Committee will hear at 1:30 p.m. CT Thursday (12:30 p.m. MT) in Room 1113 of Lincoln’s State Capitol.

Nebraskans who aren’t able to attend public hearings can view them live and submit comments via the Legislature’s website. (See the accompanying story for details.)

https://nptelegraph.com/news/first-w...30afe9efc.html

[Paladin]

VIRGINIA

Looks like a CC bill will be introduced. I have no idea re the odds of becoming law.

https://nptelegraph.com/news/first-w...30afe9efc.html