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  #41  
Old 09-25-2022, 11:35 AM
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W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan is offline
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This one can be had with 24" or 26" bbls. in either 12 or 20 ga. I just wish they could have a English Stock on them. I would buy one immediately.

I don't like the recoil pads with the rounded heel and toe that come on all the Browning. They don't locate in my shoulder like a conventional pad does. I just changed the one out on my CXS last week, and it is much better

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-25-2022 at 11:42 AM..
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  #42  
Old 09-28-2022, 6:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post

Also there are alternatives to Steel shot. Bismuth, Tungsten and others. They are expensive but considering how many you would shoot while hunting Upland Birds it is better than buying a different shotgun.


Randy
I spent like $65 for one box of bismuth shot so I can use my Winchester 1897 this year. I just want to know that I used it and got something. I don’t think I’ll take it out again, (unless I do extremely well with it haha).

If you’re just replacing a 600-700 shotgun, it may be definitely be worth it to just buy a new shotgun and shoot steel out of it. However, a $2000+ shotgun, it would take many many boxes of shell to break even.

Last edited by 19K; 09-28-2022 at 6:52 PM..
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  #43  
Old 09-29-2022, 2:32 PM
Suspirium Puellarum Suspirium Puellarum is offline
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Spending $15k (or $100k, or $1 million) for a shotgun is like paying $10k for a Rolex watch. 1950s technology, does not keep time nearly as well as a $20 casio, purely a status symbol for those who need attention from others (whether the wealth is real or debt-fueled).

As if a $2k Citori, Beretta, etc. isn't fine enough!
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  #44  
Old 09-29-2022, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Suspirium Puellarum View Post
Spending $15k (or $100k, or $1 million) for a shotgun is like paying $10k for a Rolex watch. 1950s technology, does not keep time nearly as well as a $20 casio, purely a status symbol for those who need attention from others (whether the wealth is real or debt-fueled).

As if a $2k Citori, Beretta, etc. isn't fine enough!
You do get some benefits to those. A $400 1911 isn’t as fine as a $4000 1911 but you can argue all day that a Glock is “better”
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  #45  
Old 09-29-2022, 3:00 PM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Just have to say that older guys LOVE light weight anything!!!
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  #46  
Old 09-30-2022, 9:17 AM
Suspirium Puellarum Suspirium Puellarum is offline
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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
You do get some benefits to those. A $400 1911 isn’t as fine as a $4000 1911 but you can argue all day that a Glock is “better”
No disagreement there, but at the about $4k level (maybe $2.5k level, thinking of Kimber 1911s), it is no longer about "better" in the sense of performance or machining or crafting or quality. . . after that point, it is nothing but bragging rights.
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  #47  
Old 09-30-2022, 11:01 AM
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My mechanical Seiko Watch has been running since 1989 when my wife gave it to me for my 40th Birthday. It will have been running for 33 years next month. It gains 1-2 minutes per day and has since I got it. I reset every Sunday.

A Rolex Submariner would run for 50 years easily. They are that good. Never could afford one and that model is the bottom of the line.

Randy
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  #48  
Old 09-30-2022, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspirium Puellarum View Post
Spending $15k (or $100k, or $1 million) for a shotgun is like paying $10k for a Rolex watch. 1950s technology, does not keep time nearly as well as a $20 casio, purely a status symbol for those who need attention from others (whether the wealth is real or debt-fueled).

As if a $2k Citori, Beretta, etc. isn't fine enough!
You might be surprised at how many CG members own:
1) a Rolex (or more than one)
and/or
2) a shotgun (or more than one) worth more than $2K

Maybe you should get to know your audience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspirium Puellarum View Post
No disagreement there, but at the about $4k level (maybe $2.5k level, thinking of Kimber 1911s), it is no longer about "better" in the sense of performance or machining or crafting or quality. . . after that point, it is nothing but bragging rights.
If it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that.

Some people appreciate and value the difference, feel they can afford it, so they buy it. This applies to just about anything, like shoes, bikes, car, houses, etc.

I can appreciate such things, I just can't afford them, so I don't buy them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspirium Puellarum View Post
Interesting. I am not a serious shooter (just not enough time). So the $300 for the Puma/Francolin is as much curiosity as anything else. . . can they make a decent quality semiauto for $300 new? Seems unlikely. In all likelihood I will eventually sell it and upgrade. . . tho not too keen on spending $2k for a Beretta, etc.
Congratulations on your Calguns 1 month anniversary.

I'm glad to see that Calguns has a non serious shooter that's an expert in gun values and why people buy things.
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  #49  
Old 09-30-2022, 1:24 PM
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Caesar Guerini will likely be the best balance of quality and price right now in an over under. They do make alloy framed lightweight guns.

https://gueriniusa.com/shotguns/magnus-light/

https://gueriniusa.com/shotguns/tempio-light/

Personally, I would get a Beretta A400 or Benelli Ultralight semi-auto in 20 gauge to hunt upland game.

The Fabarms Autumn also looks like a solid gun with very good reviews, but not everyone can pull off a fine side-by-side and the proper wardrobe of Harris tweed and Barbour wax cotton.

https://fabarmusa.com/autumn/

Last edited by Elgatodeacero; 09-30-2022 at 1:29 PM..
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  #50  
Old 09-30-2022, 1:27 PM
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A Rolex Submariner would run for 50 years easily. They are that good.
Nope. My Oyster Cosmograph (bought new in Switzerland in 1973) would run for about three years between Rolex authorized service visits, but was never as accurate as my $15 Casio. Rolex recommended annual clean & lube, but I stretched the intervals because the cost of the C&L came awfully close to the original purchase price of the watch. I finally just gave the watch to my son because he fancied himself a "collector." My mechanical Seiko is more accurate than the Rolex was, and has required zero maintenance. But I still wear my plastic Casio every day.
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  #51  
Old 09-30-2022, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ducky's Dad View Post
Nope. My Oyster Cosmograph (bought new in Switzerland in 1973) would run for about three years between Rolex authorized service visits, but was never as accurate as my $15 Casio. Rolex recommended annual clean & lube, but I stretched the intervals because the cost of the C&L came awfully close to the original purchase price of the watch. I finally just gave the watch to my son because he fancied himself a "collector." My mechanical Seiko is more accurate than the Rolex was, and has required zero maintenance. But I still wear my plastic Casio every day.
Agreed. My less expensive and cheap watches run far better than my luxury watches, and they don't require expensive regular maintenance like the luxury ones do.
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  #52  
Old 09-30-2022, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
The Fabarms Autumn also looks like a solid gun with very good reviews, but not everyone can pull off a fine side-by-side and the proper wardrobe of Harris tweed and Barbour wax cotton.

https://fabarmusa.com/autumn/
[/QUOTE]

At least with the Fabarms you can get a double trigger.

I've been hunting upland for the last 15 years with a Grulla 20 ga

My youngest son hunts with a '29 LC Smith 20 ga

The downside of these shotguns is that I have to buy Bismuth.
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  #53  
Old 10-01-2022, 8:31 AM
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Like I said, my Seiko has run non stop for 33 years, except for the times I didn't wear it and it stopped. As soon as I put it back on away we go. had to reset the time, and today I'll have to reset the date cuz Sept only has 30 days and it says 31 today.

Randy
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  #54  
Old 10-01-2022, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
You might be surprised at how many CG members own:
1) a Rolex (or more than one)
and/or
2) a shotgun (or more than one) worth more than $2K
Maybe you should get to know your audience.
If it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that.
Some people appreciate and value the difference, feel they can afford it, so they buy it. This applies to just about anything, like shoes, bikes, car, houses, etc.
I can appreciate such things, I just can't afford them, so I don't buy them.
Congratulations on your Calguns 1 month anniversary.
I'm glad to see that Calguns has a non serious shooter that's an expert in gun values and why people buy things.
Winner!!!
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  #55  
Old 10-02-2022, 7:47 AM
Suspirium Puellarum Suspirium Puellarum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
You might be surprised at how many CG members own:
1) a Rolex (or more than one)
and/or
2) a shotgun (or more than one) worth more than $2K

Maybe you should get to know your audience.

If it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that.

Some people appreciate and value the difference, feel they can afford it, so they buy it. This applies to just about anything, like shoes, bikes, car, houses, etc.

I can appreciate such things, I just can't afford them, so I don't buy them.

Congratulations on your Calguns 1 month anniversary.

I'm glad to see that Calguns has a non serious shooter that's an expert in gun values and why people buy things.
People can spend their money however they choose. My point is that beyond a certain price point, shotguns (and pretty much any other product) are no longer about quality or technical specifications . . . and are all about bling/look at me/bragging rights. Rolex watches and $15k-plus shotguns being some of the more obvious examples. As some have pointed out, Rolex watches (and any other brand of automatic movement watch) absolutely do not keep time as well as a $20 Casio, and also require expensive servicing every 2-3 years. So that $10k-plus item is intended to keep time? Strange.

So some people "value the difference," as indicated by the fact that some people spend $$$ on watches that regularly require expensive maintenance and can't do their job as well as a $20 Casio . . . and on shotguns that are beautiful, but do not function any differently or better than a shotgun that costs thousands less. It's their right to do so, much as it is my right to think and observe that is a silly thing to think and do.

And: you know nothing of what I can afford and/or buy. We all have our vices. If someone derives joy from a fancy shotgun or watch, good for them!
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  #56  
Old 10-02-2022, 8:01 AM
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I love my Stevens 555e in 20 gauge. Very light and it shoulders very well for me. Can be had for under $700. Has a lot of aluminum parts, and they will eventually break after a few thousand, but Savage has been awesome in replacing and fixing any busted parts free of charge (shipping included) with less than a two week turnaround.
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  #57  
Old 10-02-2022, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspirium Puellarum View Post
People can spend their money however they choose. My point is that beyond a certain price point, shotguns (and pretty much any other product) are no longer about quality or technical specifications . . . and are all about bling/look at me/bragging rights. Rolex watches and $15k-plus shotguns being some of the more obvious examples. As some have pointed out, Rolex watches (and any other brand of automatic movement watch) absolutely do not keep time as well as a $20 Casio, and also require expensive servicing every 2-3 years. So that $10k-plus item is intended to keep time? Strange.

So some people "value the difference," as indicated by the fact that some people spend $$$ on watches that regularly require expensive maintenance and can't do their job as well as a $20 Casio . . . and on shotguns that are beautiful, but do not function any differently or better than a shotgun that costs thousands less. It's their right to do so, much as it is my right to think and observe that is a silly thing to think and do.

And: you know nothing of what I can afford and/or buy. We all have our vices. If someone derives joy from a fancy shotgun or watch, good for them!
My 33 year old Seiko has never been serviced!

And if all you are looking at when you look at High $ Shotguns is utility, you are missing the point. They are ART and Investments! And they also will run for hundreds of thousands of shots as well, adn still be worth more than you paid for them down the road..

There are other forms of Value than Pure Utility.

What you are paying for is the amount of "Hand Work" that goes into the making of that gun. What you get back is the Visual and Tactile Gratification of being in contact with that item. Kind of like what your wife gets from looking at the Diamond Ring you paid $20K for?

Both my $2000 Citori's are nice guns, but they are mass produced, and that is why they only cost $2000. They will need attention long before a $20,000 Perazzi does.

I have a friend that paid $53,000 for his custom built Perazzi with all three sub gauge barrels. he also had to wait for three years to get it.

He has easily fired 50K rounds thru both the 20 and 28 gauge barrels. The gun is perfect! He also got engraving from one of Perazzi's Master Engravers (who is well known in Italian gun society)which took close to 6 months to do. It also has Spectacular Wood,,, and his initials Gold Inlaid in the bottom of the receiver..

He is happy as a clam, and shoots this gun often, and since he shoots about 4-5 days a week he runs thru all his other shotguns as well! I can't keep up with all the guns he brings to our Skeet Shoots, and doesn't count the ones he brings to the Trap shoots that I never see.

The guy is a Shotgun Aficionado, and is 80 years old and never married. So he spends his money the way he wants and he enjoys what he buys to the fullest extent. He also knows exactly what he is looking at,,, which when it comes to fine shotguns, most owners don't!

He is also a Damn Good Gunsmith, so he really understands what makes these guns superior to all others.

Like I said, you are missing the point.

Randy
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 10-02-2022 at 9:46 AM..
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  #58  
Old 10-02-2022, 3:16 PM
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So I just got back from first time at clays with a new cz bobwhite g2 20 gauge. Overall nice shotgun, I kept forgetting it was an extractor rather than ejector and so I kept trying to eject shells into the container rather than picking them out and tossing them. Also it’s been a while since I’ve shot a double trigger or a side by side so I was thinking too much instead of just shooting. So I shot poorly, but the shotgun worked well and I have to say it was a good value for the couple of boxes of ammo I put through it. Lot more boxes to go before I can give it an unqualified endorsement, and not sure I love it enough to keep it for all those boxes as I still need to get a feel for how it fits me. for something I can take out in the field, carry all day, and beat up without feeling guilty (the reason why I bought it), it seems to fit the bill.
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