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Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more If it locks up, carries, fits on to or cleans up your firearms, discuss it here.

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2019, 7:58 AM
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Default Sacrificial Steel

I just got a brain storm that deals with gun storage in safes.... I've spent a lot of years in the boating industry. How does that relate to guns?? Hang in there, I'll get to that... One of the big problems on a boat in a marina is electrolysis. So many owners will hang a sacrificial zink over the side, since it's the lowest on the Nobility Scale, to attract stray electrical currents from attacking thru hulls, OB props, brass props, etc. So I got to thinkin'... Why not take a small piece of raw steel, set it on an old saucer, and put it on a shelf in the gun safe. Check it when the safe is opened for any rusting. If it rusting right away you've got humidity problems. If it's not your good to go and no need to inspect every gun in there. My 2
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:53 AM
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I think it's an interesting idea. It's more of a Canary in the Coalmine type of thing rather than the sacrificial zink. Take a piece of carbon steel and treat it the same as what you do to protect the bores/barrels and put it in the safe. An assumption is that stainless components would be less susceptible so you make the Canary out of something that shows the problem first. It's at least worth 2 Cents, maybe even three.
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Old 03-13-2019, 2:55 PM
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*zinc
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Old 03-14-2019, 5:28 AM
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*zinc
OC......
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:24 AM
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OC......
OCD. :-)
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:58 AM
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OCD. :-)
Cute....
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Old 03-14-2019, 9:34 AM
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The zinc works by donating (accepting?) electrons from the ocean water, thus oxidizing away instead of the less reactive metals.

Keeping a bit of zinc in the safe wouldn't likely help, since air is much less conductive than seawater.

keeping some steel in the safe as a "is anything else rusting" indicator may not work, as it's entirely possible that indicator is in a better or worse part of the safe than at least one firearm, and thus is a non-positive indicator.

However, the idea of ionizing the interior of the safe is interesting. Perhaps ionizing the interior of the safe (positive or negative, not sure which would be better) would prevent guns from rusting?
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Old 03-14-2019, 1:32 PM
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The zinc works by donating (accepting?) electrons from the ocean water, thus oxidizing away instead of the less reactive metals.

Keeping a bit of zinc in the safe wouldn't likely help, since air is much less conductive than seawater.

keeping some steel in the safe as a "is anything else rusting" indicator may not work, as it's entirely possible that indicator is in a better or worse part of the safe than at least one firearm, and thus is a non-positive indicator.

However, the idea of ionizing the interior of the safe is interesting. Perhaps ionizing the interior of the safe (positive or negative, not sure which would be better) would prevent guns from rusting?
Rust and electrolysis are two different animals. Rust is created by humidity/moisture causing oxidation, and electrolysis is caused by molecules transferring from a low nobility metal such as zinc or aluminum to a higher metal like stainless steel via a electronic current. There's also a third, galvanic corrosion caused when to dissimilar metals are in contact with one another causing molecular transfer. So getting back to the sacrificial steel, humidity or moisture in a safe will cause the unprotected steel to rust faster than a sleeved or well oiled firearm, and be an early warning system for the possibility of problems... It could also be an indicator of how well those packets of silica-gel are doing... :-)
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:02 PM
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OCD. :-)


CDO...


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Old 03-14-2019, 8:45 PM
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Rust and electrolysis are two different animals. Rust is created by humidity/moisture causing oxidation, and electrolysis is caused by molecules transferring from a low nobility metal such as zinc or aluminum to a higher metal like stainless steel via a electronic current)
I did not know that. (I only train electrons, I don't care where they come from.:-)
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Old 03-18-2019, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Rust and electrolysis are two different animals. Rust is created by humidity/moisture causing oxidation, and electrolysis is caused by molecules transferring from a low nobility metal such as zinc or aluminum to a higher metal like stainless steel via a electronic current. There's also a third, galvanic corrosion caused when to dissimilar metals are in contact with one another causing molecular transfer. So getting back to the sacrificial steel, humidity or moisture in a safe will cause the unprotected steel to rust faster than a sleeved or well oiled firearm, and be an early warning system for the possibility of problems... It could also be an indicator of how well those packets of silica-gel are doing... :-)
No need to clean or worry about my firearms anymore.
Just put in an order for a new type of safe.
QUATUM COMPUTER SAFE

"They've created a situation where the 2nd law of thermodynamics appears to be broken, this law represents a core component to our understanding of time progression in closed physical systems. Closed systems progress only from states of higher order to lower ones, this means entropy can only increase over time."

"Perhaps it makes more sense to think of it like watching a group of glass fragments form themselves into an unbroken champagne flute... we intuitively understand that's not how time can be experienced in our universe. No one could watch a video of that occur and not immediately feel the video was being played in reverse. Yet these researchers claim to have created a condition where a couple of quantum bits are capable of moving from lower to higher order conditions, if just ever so slightly. In reality this is nothing like a champagne flute being formed from shards of glass but as a thought experiment it demonstrates the concept."

NICE.....Put dirty gun in safe. Turn on for how ever long it was before I used and......Wow it is newer than when I bought it!

Disclaimer...Items left in safe may return to original clumps of metal/plastic if left in to long!

Like the idea of seeing rust before..Under hand grips always worries me. Let us know what to use. Thanks
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Old 03-18-2019, 6:10 AM
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Like the idea of seeing rust before..Under hand grips always worries me. Let us know what to use. Thanks
Returning from another dimension of time travel... :-)
Remove the grips and spray the metal down with a silicon based solvent. This causes silicon contamination of the metal surface and acts a barrier from harmful materials. I've always wondered about wood grips possibly containing moisture that would cause rusting. Like wood that's a little green and hasn't been kiln dried?? The silicon will also work when using aluminum pop rivets in stainless steel. Galvanic. That's why aluminum rivets deteriorate and turn white-ish over time... I use silicon solvent on all my guns before putting them in the safes. So far so good... :-)
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Old 03-18-2019, 7:27 AM
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I had a real bad experience with silicone spray.
Thinking it was a good long term protector I used on a set of taps and dies.
After a year or so "yes long time" went to use them and the silicone hardened and turned brown.
Suspect it pulled something from the case and dried out.
The set was NOT cheap Chitanium set.
The silicone was industrial do not remember but think Wurth was the company.

What brand do you use.
Thanks.
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Old 03-18-2019, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by foothillman View Post
I had a real bad experience with silicone spray.
Thinking it was a good long term protector I used on a set of taps and dies.
After a year or so "yes long time" went to use them and the silicone hardened and turned brown.
Suspect it pulled something from the case and dried out.
The set was NOT cheap Chitanium set.
The silicone was industrial do not remember but think Wurth was the company.

What brand do you use.
Thanks.
If you used an oil based silicon lubricant, what dried out was the oil. With a silicon solvent the solvent flashes off and leaves a dry surface. I do need to find another source for the solvent. Started with CRC, and when they discontinued it I found Blaster at Home Depot. Now it's getting hard to find so the search is on again.... IF you do use the silicon lubricant, wipe the metal down after applying. The silicon will still do it's job and contaminate...which in this case is a good thing.. :-)
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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Rust is when oxygen combines with iron to form iron oxide.

Once iron becomes iron oxide it can't absorb anymore oxygen. So once the surface of your steel plate gets rusty, it won't stop other thing from rusting.

Pure iron dust would be better.

For long term storage, oil your gun and wrap it with Saran wrap (or a generic equivelant). If oxygen and water can't get near your gun, it cant rust.


.
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Old 03-19-2019, 4:38 PM
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Once iron becomes iron oxide it can't absorb anymore oxygen. So once the surface of your steel plate gets rusty, it won't stop other thing from rusting.
The idea here is to take a look at the plate once in a while. It's not in there to prevent other pieces from rusting. Like previously posted it acts as an early warning system....
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Old 03-20-2019, 8:01 AM
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The idea here is to take a look at the plate once in a while. It's not in there to prevent other pieces from rusting. Like previously posted it acts as an early warning system....
Then you need several different pieces at different levels. I have seen tools in a tool cabinet rust on a couple shelf levels, and not others. Sometime one corner of a safe is more prone to moisture than others. The corner against two walls may have a different temperature than the corner in free air.


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Old 03-20-2019, 8:10 AM
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Then you need several different pieces at different levels. I have seen tools in a tool cabinet rust on a couple shelf levels, and not others. Sometime one corner of a safe is more prone to moisture than others. The corner against two walls may have a different temperature than the corner in free air.


.
No you don't. One piece of bare steel will do. Stop trying to over think this thing.....
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Old 03-20-2019, 6:18 PM
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If you use humidity indicator cards, they'll show you if you need to recharge your desiccant.

I use desiccant (I microwave it once a year) and a goldenrod.
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Old 03-20-2019, 8:53 PM
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I always wondered about galvanic effects in my safe. I put in a synthetic carpet floor and lined the inside walls with 1/4 styrofoam that came from a shipping container. Helps to keep goldenrod heat in, and I never wanted to have firearms touch metal in a safe that was "grounded" to floor. May have been overthinking it....

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