Marin

[kingof9x]

I just wrote an email to the person in the sherif department that handles CCW applications and asked if they have changed their policy as of yet. I did a little research and some other counties have apparently changed their policy.

I am hesitant to actually apple now because in Marin's written policy it says that cause for denying an application is a previously denied ccw application. So I don't want to apply until I know the policy has changed considering that they might use that prevision to deny future applicants that they have already denied. UGH. can we just elect a new sheriff that actually supports 2a?

@aodorisio If you find a training option that isn't to far away I would gladly take the class with you. I have a couple friends that would also like to be ahead of the curve as well.

[aodorisio]

Ok great please post what they reply. Additionally I would think if you were denied because of good clause, they would have to rehear or accept a new application. And I will keep you up to date on anything I find about training, I'm out of town right now so it might be slow but will still post any findings

[kingof9x]

I have not asked bullseye if their ccw course meets the california requirements, but it might.
The other option I have found is in San Mateo - http://www.bayareafirearms.com/ccw/

Bullseye is $250 per person and the other place is $199 per person

[putput]

Please, please, please let us know the response...

Otherwise I'm emailing next week if/when the case is sent back to San Diego/Finalized.

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by kingof9x

I just wrote an email to the person in the sherif department that handles CCW applications and asked if they have changed their policy as of yet. I did a little research and some other counties have apparently changed their policy.

I am hesitant to actually apple now because in Marin's written policy it says that cause for denying an application is a previously denied ccw application. So I don't want to apply until I know the policy has changed considering that they might use that prevision to deny future applicants that they have already denied. UGH. can we just elect a new sheriff that actually supports 2a?

@aodorisio If you find a training option that isn't to far away I would gladly take the class with you. I have a couple friends that would also like to be ahead of the curve as well.

[aodorisio]

I'm not entirely sure but I think the course you take needs to be approved by the sheriff So I'm not entirely sure the one in San mateo will work maybe the bullseye one. If everything passes I assume we will be seeing many new training courses pop up.

[kingof9x]

No reply from sheriff yet.

On the topic of new training courses popping up; I was at the range yesterday and there was a class going on. Maybe 12 people. The instructor went over 3 gun safety rules then introduced his assistant instructors. He said that he had given them their first class earlier that day. A couple times the range master had to get on the mic and tell them to stop shooting the ceiling. Just another "be careful where you train" story.

[kingof9x]

While I have not received an official reply I did talk to a guy who works for the sherif today. He told me that the case has been brought up in a briefing. All they said was that it was most likely to be changing soon, similar to changes due to prop 47. They know it's changing but they don't know how or when.

This is all hearsay. While we are on the topic the guy did say that I should apply, and the more people that do will put more political pressure on our sherif to do something about it.

What do you all think? should we organize and apply all at once or wait a little longer to see if it just changes?

[aodorisio]

Assuming that everything goes in favor of Peruta the judge will set a date by when the new law goes into effect. When that date comes the sheriffs must comply with the law. I won't be applying before that date unless I know for a fact that Sheriff Doyle is signing off on the applications. Two things could happen if you apply before that date. 1 you apply and the sheriff says well its going to happen anyways so I will sign off on it. or 2 he is upset with the ruling and, the date still being before the law goes into effect, he denies you. You will then have to state that you were denied a CCW before on your next application, and I don't know if he could reject you again based on the fact that you were denied previously for any reason. It is just a risk I would not want to take. I have waited this long to get one I don't want to risk it by applying say 3 months ahead of time.

simply put peruta passes an official date will be set. no reason to apply before that date unless you know for a 100% fact your sheriff will comply with the law.

just my 2 cents

[kingof9x]

I agree with you. California gun owners have plenty of practice waiting for our firearms.

If we are lucky that waiting period should be history by the time we can get a CCW in Marin county.

[Citizen_B]

Has anyone contacted the Sheriff's office and know what the current approved training requirements/trainers are?

[kingof9x]

The web site says they want all applications sent to Stacy Bakke at sbakke@marinsheriff.org. I sent her a question almost a month ago and have yet to receive a reply.

If you get any official info from the sherif office please share it.

[DannyInSoCal]

Has there been any updates in the last few years for Marin County?

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal

Has there been any updates in the last few years for Marin County?

No.

Marin is enslaved to wealthy SF liberals. It will take a federal court decision to crack it open (Peruta, Caetano, Wrenn, Nichols (OC case)). Baring that you'll have to wait until hell freezes over....

[NorthBay Shooter]

Does anyone know when the en banc review will be finalized and/or published?

[estrom]

Originally Posted by aodorisio

they denied the appeal as of yesterday. we are now waiting to see what the next defensive steps for Harris are but it looks less likely as a win for her

Where did you see this? Nothing is mentioned about this in the Peruta thread.

[LeftCoastShooter]

Originally Posted by Paladin

No.

Marin is enslaved to wealthy SF liberals. It will take a federal court decision to crack it open (Peruta, Caetano, Wrenn, Nichols (OC case)). Baring that you'll have to wait until hell freezes over....

This. All of my sources close to Sheriff Doyle agree that this is a non-starter issue, that he won't issue. Period.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter

Does anyone know when the en banc review will be finalized and/or published?

Deadlines are for parties to litigation, not for courts....

[NorthBay Shooter]

Paladin,
thanks for the update. I thought I saw something from NRA-ILA that we would hear before the end of the year. I guess I was mistaken.

[mootman]

Are any fellow Calguners mountain or road bike riders? Let's link up for a ride in the new Year!

Best,
Gary

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by mootman

Are any fellow Calguners mountain or road bike riders? Let's link up for a ride in the new Year!

Best,
Gary

These threads are for county level info re. applying for CCWs only.

Maybe post this sort of thing in the Off Topic forum?

[cabforward2]

Any update's?

[mootman]

Yes, any updates?

[Triage]

Any updates? Wanting to submit my app, but don't want to submit at the wrong time. Thanks

[Mykul]

Originally Posted by Triage

Any updates? Wanting to submit my app, but don't want to submit at the wrong time. Thanks

As far as I have read about Doyle (Marin county sheriff) you need to be actively hunted by someone and be able to prove it before he will issue any CCW. I would also like to submit mine to obtain the California CCW. I also read if you submit and are Denied your permit. then your name is tarnished from trying to resubmit later. If someone else can confirm that would be great!

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Mykul

As far as I have read about Doyle (Marin county sheriff) you need to be actively hunted by someone and be able to prove it before he will issue any CCW. I would also like to submit mine to obtain the California CCW. I also read if you submit and are Denied your permit. then your name is tarnished from trying to resubmit later. If someone else can confirm that would be great!

B.S.

If you were denied for lack of GMC, they'll just look into why and see if you're still determined to lack GMC.

If you were denied for lack of GC, they'll just look at your current GC to determine if you still lack GC.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Sorry about the big picture:

Doyle is ~71 yo.: born in 1947.
https://www.marinsheriff.org/about-us/executive-staff

Will Doyle really run for sheriff again in 2022 when he's 75??? Best for Marin Co gunnies to start to start organizing now to have an impact on who gets elected as their next sheriff in 2022 June.

Sheriffs' elections are in non-presidential election years, so turn out is low. Sheriffs' elections are usually decided in the June primary, which has an even lower turnout, even further increasing the impact of a small but determined political minority (i.e., gunnies in Marin Co.).

I'm posting this here since this is where it came up, but I'll cross post this post to the Marin Co Concealed Carry Info thread for further discussion. (IOW, reply there not here re. Doyle & Marin Co)

Bringing this discussion over here to the Marin Co thread where it belongs.

[Robotron2k84]

Doyle isn't there much of the time anyway. Undersheriff Ridgway will probably replace him once Doyle retires. Expect more of the same for the next 20 years. Breakdown of issued permits numbers around 40-50 and consists mostly of Federal law enforcement, active Judges and DA personnel. Doyle won't even issue to his deputies who aren't allowed to carry off duty.

Keep in mind that Doyle has run unopposed for the last few elections, and that voter registration in Marin breaks down as 78% D, 16% R and 6% NPP. This makes running a pro-CCW candidate almost a guaranteed loser. Marin has exactly one gun store proper, and a few Big-5's which don't have full-time staff for selling guns (only certain days), and one semi-public range.

It's not a hotbed of Pro-2A fervor. Even though guns per capita far outstrips SF given the similar voting demographics. Marin is still older and white, but that is changing.

To make a fine point, I was the first 03 FFL that my local PD ever received notification for.

[Robotron2k84]

Originally Posted by Paladin

B.S.

If you were denied for lack of GMC, they'll just look into why and see if you're still determined to lack GMC.

If you were denied for lack of GC, they'll just look at your current GC to determine if you still lack GC.

It's not entirely B.S.

The process in Marin is to meet with the undersheriff for a review of GC and GMC, and if he feels that you meet the standards, will tell you so. You are, of course, free to submit the application to the Sheriff for his determination, but the denial will be factored into a subsequent application. I was told so in person. A denial may also affect your out-of-state permits if they ask if you have ever been denied.

If you don't decide to pursue the application based on the recommendation given at the initial meeting, it isn't recorded or submitted.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

Doyle isn't there much of the time anyway. Undersheriff Ridgway will probably replace him once Doyle retires. Expect more of the same for the next 20 years. Breakdown of issued permits numbers around 40-50 and consists mostly of Federal law enforcement, active Judges and DA personnel. Doyle won't even issue to his deputies who aren't allowed to carry off duty.

Keep in mind that Doyle has run unopposed for the last few elections, and that voter registration in Marin breaks down as 78% D, 16% R and 6% NPP. This makes running a pro-CCW candidate almost a guaranteed loser. Marin has exactly one gun store proper, and a few Big-5's which don't have full-time staff for selling guns (only certain days), and one semi-public range.

It's not a hotbed of Pro-2A fervor. Even though guns per capita far outstrips SF given the similar voting demographics. Marin is still older and white, but that is changing.

To make a fine point, I was the first 03 FFL that my local PD ever received notification for.

Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... )

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

It's not entirely B.S.

The process in Marin is to meet with the undersheriff for a review of GC and GMC, and if he feels that you meet the standards, will tell you so. You are, of course, free to submit the application to the Sheriff for his determination, but the denial will be factored into a subsequent application. I was told so in person. A denial may also affect your out-of-state permits if they ask if you have ever been denied.

If you don't decide to pursue the application based on the recommendation given at the initial meeting, it isn't recorded or submitted.

The meme that a prior denial is inherently negative is BS and is used to intimated/scare people into not getting a final determination of their application so that the CLEO can claim he approves a high percent of applications, and that the low number of CCWs issued by his IA is because people just don't apply, not because he won't issue.

For CA CCWs (what we're concerned about in this forum), a prior denial is NOT dispositive. Salute v. Pitchess requires the IA to exercise discretion with each application. The IA cannot just rubber stamp denials on apps where the applicant has a prior denial. Sure, like I said, they'll look into the prior denial, esp if it was for lack of GMC. But a denial for lack of GC doesn't matter: they want to know what your GC is now, what proof you have to support it, and will test it against what their GC requirement is now (vs what your GC was vis-a-vis the GC requirement of your prior IA back when you were denied).

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court...l/1830587.html

[Robotron2k84]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... )

I would caution against assuming that everyone in the sheriff's department is Anti, in Marin. As I wrote in a different thread, I do get the impression they want CCW reciprocity to pass so they can get out from under the demographics and let people choose their freedoms. However, given the voter make-up, that Marin still wouldn't issue even with Natl. reciprocity, simply due to the politics involved.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

I would caution against assuming that everyone in the sheriff's department is Anti, in Marin.

I didn't. I only spoke of the sheriff and the vast majority of Marin County voters.

Originally Posted by Paladin

Yeah, I thought of that after posting. Most remaining hardcore anti counties are where BOTH the sheriff is anti and the vast majority of the voters are antis too.... Only the courts offer possible relief to the oppressed minority pro-2nd A citizens behind enemy lines, and we saw in the last presidential election, we almost lost any hope even there. (Think of who Hillary (or Bernie) would select for the federal courts and SCOTUS... )

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

As I wrote in a different thread, I do get the impression they want CCW reciprocity to pass so they can get out from under the demographics and let people choose their freedoms. However, given the voter make-up, that Marin still wouldn't issue even with Natl. reciprocity, simply due to the politics involved.

Well, I'm glad to hear that not all MCSO LEOs are anti. But they're stuck behind enemy lines, just like the rest of us in the SFBA. Here's to those LE comrades!

Marin's best hope is something like what we hope just happened with Sonoma: there's a sheriffs election w/o an incumbent who's running, and the candidate who wins also happens to want to issue more CCWs, even if they aren't willing to go SD = GC. That way the antis don't go hysterical and yet more CCWs get issue w/o incident.

[Robotron2k84]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I didn't. I only spoke of the sheriff and the vast majority of Marin County voters.

Subtlety on my part. It's my hope sanity seeps in after Doyle is gone, and the next in line may be more willing to issue. No guarantees.

Originally Posted by Paladin

Well, I'm glad to hear that not all MCSO LEOs are anti. But they're stuck behind enemy lines, just like the rest of us in the SFBA. Here's to those LE comrades!

Marin's best hope is something like what we hope just happened with Sonoma: there's a sheriffs election w/o an incumbent who's running, and the candidate who wins also happens to want to issue more CCWs, even if they aren't willing to go SD = GC. That way the antis don't go hysterical and yet more CCWs get issue w/o incident.

I simply wish that at a minimum that the remaining red counties would follow the standards that LA (PD?) is using to expand the valid classes of individuals where SD=GC.

Better would be full recognition of the right, but that's asking the near impossible for such districts.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

Subtlety on my part. It's my hope sanity seeps in after Doyle is gone, and the next in line may be more willing to issue. No guarantees.

Don't be surprised if Doyle retires before his 2019 - 23 term is up and recommends the BoS appoint his preferred successor as "interim" sheriff who will then run as the incumbent... This would probably happen late fall of 2021 (election June 2022, starts his first full term Jan 2023).

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

I simply wish that at a minimum that the remaining red counties would follow the standards that LA (PD?) is using to expand the valid classes of individuals where SD=GC.

I'll be subtle too....

If anyone is looking for ideas for a GC policy, see what I suggested for San Diego Sheriff Gore's GC guidelines. Just make a few minor changes, as shown, and it becomes very good "light green" to even "dark green" GC standard (depending upon how it is actually interpreted and implemented):

Originally Posted by Paladin

Gore's CCW Good Cause policy, when you look at it (http://sdsheriff.net/documents/ccw.pdf), wouldn't be bad IF he just removed the "business or occupation" qualifications/limitations and added the text I've bolded. It would put San Diego solidly in "light green" on the CA CCW GC map. From what SDCGO has told me this week -- that their people are still getting approved and NONE of them have been denied because of GC -- I think Gore's current practice is more in line with their GC policy as modified by me below than as currently posted on their website. If Gore made the changes suggested below to his official policy on his website (and put a direct link to CCW Info on his homepage), more CGNers would trust him NOT to flip back to restrictive issuance if he was reelected.

[Paladin]

I'd LOVE to see some LOCers among this crowd!

[Robotron2k84]

Dear lord where did you dig that up from?

My memories are more along the lines of this.



Mr. Williams would often do stand-up unannounced and try out new material. I miss that.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

I would caution against assuming that everyone in the sheriff's department is Anti, in Marin. As I wrote in a different thread, I do get the impression they want CCW reciprocity to pass so they can get out from under the demographics and let people choose their freedoms. However, given the voter make-up, that Marin still wouldn't issue even with Natl. reciprocity, simply due to the politics involved.

Any potential successors to Doyle should look in the Sonoma Co thread for the 2 posts I made with embedded videos of Essick addressing the local Dem party and local Repub party and how he handled the CCW issue. He basically said, look to our neighbors who've issued thousands of CCWs and have had no problems. CCWers, who pay fees, get fingerprinted, go through background checks and training, are not the problem. Gangbangers, drug criminals and thugs are the problem.

In 4 years from now, after 4 years of Essick readily issuing CCWs in Sonoma, Doyle's successor will be able to point to Mendocine, Napa, Solano and Sacto counties and say the same thing, but with next door Sonoma having joined that list. Sure, hardcore antis won't be convinced, but the vast majority of reasonable, common sense voters will be.

[Robotron2k84]

A few more random homicides, and maybe they will change their minds? One can only imagine...

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...pect-at-large/

[Paladin]

From 2018 March 12

Few Marin residents have permits to carry concealed weapons. According to the Marin County Sheriff’s Office, which handles many if not most permit applications in the county, 53 people applied for permits or renewals between 1996 and 2017. Most applicants were private investigators or retired law enforcement officials seeking self-protection, while others were private security guards or mental health specialists.

The sheriff’s department denied 12 of the applications. Sheriff Robert Doyle said applicants need to show good cause for having a gun, and a mere Second Amendment assertion doesn’t cut it.

“We always evaluate the reasons people give,” Doyle said.

More at: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...rtage-of-guns/

Anyone who applies with Marin Co SO should review the thread I made re. getting a CoCoCo SO CCW at: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by kingof9x

I just wrote an email to the person in the sherif department that handles CCW applications and asked if they have changed their policy as of yet. I did a little research and some other counties have apparently changed their policy.

I am hesitant to actually apple now because in Marin's written policy it says that cause for denying an application is a previously denied ccw application. So I don't want to apply until I know the policy has changed considering that they might use that prevision to deny future applicants that they have already denied. UGH. can we just elect a new sheriff that actually supports 2a?

I can't find any CCW info on their website: https://www.marinsheriff.org/ Where did you get their policy? Is that policy still current (in 2019 vs 2014 when you posted this)? Can you post the exact language used re. what I bolded?

FWIW, no, I don't live in Marin Co either....