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  #1  
Old 04-20-2019, 2:01 PM
Andrew_65 Andrew_65 is offline
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Default Transfer of guns from deceased person

Hi everyone – I am need of some solid advice on how to handle a gun transfers from a close friend of mine that recently passed away. I have looked over this site and have not found a clear approach on how to handle my situation. Apologies in advance if this gets too long, but I want to make sure I cover all the details, as I have not been able to get a clean answer from any of the FFL people that I have spoken with.

My friend passed away with out a will and his only heir is his daughter who is 22 and has had a 5150 hold within the last 3 years. I would like to take ownership of the guns and make it is as easy as possible for her and his ex-wife. I am very good friends with both of them. The guns include 2 pistols (.45 and 9mm) and California compliant ar-15 (fixed magazine). All guns were legally registered and held in California.

It is my understanding that the daughter cannot take ownership of the guns via the BOF 4554A form due to a 5150 hold that she had within the last 5 years. Because of this I am not sure how to transfer the guns to ensure legal position with me.

Would really appreciate the step by step details of what I would need to do to properly transfer the guns.
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Old 04-20-2019, 2:06 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
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Without a will here will be a probate. She must consult with attorney. She cannot be I same house as those firearms. Unless locked with her having no access. You have no standing in this matter now.
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:00 AM
Andrew_65 Andrew_65 is offline
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Thanks... She is not in the same house as the guns.

Is there anyway in which his ex-wife could act as the seller in a PPT?
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Old 04-21-2019, 11:12 AM
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Have her (the heir) give power of attorney to a non prohibited person for a transfer of the firearms. That person then does a PPT with you. The FFL does not need to know any of the details and it would be best to leave out all details. Just do a PPT like any other PPT.
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Old 04-21-2019, 5:39 PM
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Is there any kind of check on the seller in a PPT or is it all about the buyer?

Would I use the BOF 110 form for the POA?

Last edited by Andrew_65; 04-21-2019 at 5:52 PM..
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Old 04-21-2019, 6:39 PM
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There is no check on the seller. BOF110 looks as good as any power of attorney form, and bonus that it is geared towards firearms and written by the state BOF.

Probate may or may not be a thing depending on the size of the estate. If it is a small estate then a full probate process is unnecessary. She should wait at least 40 days after the death though before transferring property.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=3.&article=

Quote:
13100. Excluding the property described in Section 13050, if the gross value of the decedent’s real and personal property in this state does not exceed one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) and if 40 days have elapsed since the death of the decedent, the successor of the decedent may, without procuring letters of administration or awaiting probate of the will, do any of the following with respect to one or more particular items of property:
(a) Collect any particular item of property that is money due the decedent.
(b) Receive any particular item of property that is tangible personal property of the decedent.
(c) Have any particular item of property that is evidence of a debt, obligation, interest, right, security, or chose in action belonging to the decedent transferred, whether or not secured by a lien on real property.

Last edited by SkyHawk; 04-21-2019 at 6:43 PM..
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Old 04-22-2019, 8:01 AM
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I've purchased several Estate Guns from local auction houses and the auctioneer acts with a PoA and we do a PPT. Never had a problem....
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Last edited by condor; 04-22-2019 at 8:09 AM..
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Old 04-22-2019, 6:22 PM
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Thanks all. There was no probate as the estate was way too small.

Since there is no check on the Seller, would there be any concern with her being the seller in a PPT since she is the proper heir? If so, then I will ask her to name a POA and then that person can act as the seller.


Thanks everyone for the additional insights.
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Old 04-22-2019, 8:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_65 View Post
Thanks all. There was no probate as the estate was way too small.

Since there is no check on the Seller, would there be any concern with her being the seller in a PPT since she is the proper heir? If so, then I will ask her to name a POA and then that person can act as the seller.


Thanks everyone for the additional insights.
Yeah, if she is a prohibited person she is laying down a paper trail for being in possession, and will also be on video at the gun store. I wouldn't go there if I was in her shoes.
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Old 04-23-2019, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Yeah, if she is a prohibited person she is laying down a paper trail for being in possession, and will also be on video at the gun store. I wouldn't go there if I was in her shoes.
Sorry, but you’re so wrong on this...

As long as she doesn’t physically possess the firearms, she is fine!

She can have another person bring in the guns to an FFL and meet them there to either do a consignment contract or PPT.

We pick up guns all the time from LE dept’s for customers who are newly prohibited and have them come in to consign THEIR property.

People who own firearms but are not allowed to possess them have every legal right to the monetary value of the firearms according to SCOTUS
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Old 04-23-2019, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
I've purchased several Estate Guns from local auction houses and the auctioneer acts with a PoA and we do a PPT. Never had a problem....
Until, you want to use that gun for your CCW and its not in the AFS so the local sheriff will not allow it until you register it, and then you go to do the Vol Reg on it and DOJ kicks it back because that transfer didn't go through a FFL so you are in my store pawning it and picking it up 10 days later so it will be registered to you......Oh yeah this just happened last week. My point is this, your transfers probably went through fine, but I've seen plenty where janky auction houses sell firearms and Eff it up royally.
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Old 04-23-2019, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Sorry, but you’re so wrong on this...

As long as she doesn’t physically possess the firearms, she is fine!

She can have another person bring in the guns to an FFL and meet them there to either do a consignment contract or PPT.

We pick up guns all the time from LE dept’s for customers who are newly prohibited and have them come in to consign THEIR property.

People who own firearms but are not allowed to possess them have every legal right to the monetary value of the firearms according to SCOTUS
Ok so that is exactly what I have been saying in this thread all along. Then he asked if he could skip the whole ‘have someone else bring them on her behalf’ bit and instead bring them in herself, and that is what I responded to when I said ‘no don’t do that’.

If you start from the beginning of the thread, you’ll see I never said she could not sell them, I said she could not possess them. I am very familiar with recent court decisions that allow prohibited persons to sell firearms. It sounds like you are saying the same thing, so not sure where I was wrong.

Last edited by SkyHawk; 04-23-2019 at 7:57 PM..
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Old 04-23-2019, 9:09 PM
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A buyer and the guy swinging the gavel walk into an FFL and do a PPT. How would that not get registered under the buyer??? Is there some other "PPT" that auction houses in CA can do that I am not aware of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Until, you want to use that gun for your CCW and its not in the AFS so the local sheriff will not allow it until you register it, and then you go to do the Vol Reg on it and DOJ kicks it back because that transfer didn't go through a FFL so you are in my store pawning it and picking it up 10 days later so it will be registered to you......Oh yeah this just happened last week. My point is this, your transfers probably went through fine, but I've seen plenty where janky auction houses sell firearms and Eff it up royally.
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Old 04-24-2019, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Ok so that is exactly what I have been saying in this thread all along. Then he asked if he could skip the whole ‘have someone else bring them on her behalf’ bit and instead bring them in herself, and that is what I responded to when I said ‘no don’t do that’.

If you start from the beginning of the thread, you’ll see I never said she could not sell them, I said she could not possess them. I am very familiar with recent court decisions that allow prohibited persons to sell firearms. It sounds like you are saying the same thing, so not sure where I was wrong.
Looks like I just read it differently
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Old 04-24-2019, 7:44 PM
Andrew_65 Andrew_65 is offline
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Thanks everyone for all the advice.

Sounds like I will have another friend obtain the POA and then he can take the guns to the FFL and execute the PPT to me.
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Old 04-25-2019, 1:29 AM
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Call the FFL you are going to use in advance and ask them if they need the seller present to do a PPT or if the transfer can be done by someone with a BOF 110 Power of Attorney to be sure they do not want the seller present, even if she is not in possession of the firearms. This should all be done as part of a single PPT, though the FFL is allowed to charge an additional statutory fee for the second and third firearm.

I am not so certain you can still do this by permitting a person with a POA to take possession even for a lawful purpose, such as doing a PPT, given the limitations on 30 day transfers to family members. See PC 27880.

Quote:
27880.
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm if all of the following requirements are satisfied:

(a) The loan is to a spouse, registered domestic partner, or any of the following relations, whether by consanguinity, adoption, or steprelation:

(1) Parent.

(2) Child.

(3) Sibling.

(4) Grandparent.

(5) Grandchild.

(b) The loan is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.

(c) The loan is for any lawful purpose.

(d) The loan does not exceed 30 days in duration.

(e) Until January 1, 2015, if the firearm is a handgun, the individual being loaned the firearm shall have a valid handgun safety certificate. Commencing January 1, 2015, for any firearm, the individual being loaned the firearm shall have a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, an unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.

(f) If the firearm being loaned is a handgun, the handgun is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.

(Amended by Stats. 2016, Ch. 41, Sec. 1. (AB 1511) Effective January 1, 2017.)
If this raises a problem, the solution is that daughter gives the ex-wife, if this is her "parent", the daughter's POA.

Last edited by Chewy65; 04-25-2019 at 1:47 AM..
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