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  #1  
Old 11-17-2020, 3:26 PM
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Default Bethel Church in Redding?

Brethren,

my church is going through rough times. The senior pastor was accused of heresy and the accusers claim he has ties to Bethel Church in Redding. I didn't realize this was a bad thing? I enjoy the songs from Bethel church, but when i started web searching, i see the church is tied to perhaps questionable doctrine and behavior.

Do any of you church goers have any thoughts on this church? As we all know, the internet is full of information including bad information, so i figured I'd come here and ask.

Take care and stay safe out there.
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Old 11-17-2020, 3:40 PM
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i heard of bethel songs and that's about it.
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Old 11-17-2020, 5:00 PM
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Is this the place ( Bethel church ) with a pastor named Johnson ? If so he is into Dominion theology, which I will not comment on. But IF your pastor is for real, stand by him ! Love, graceful, helpful, endeavors to be Christlike as best he can, uses scripture as written not as twisted and screwed over etc.

Psalm 1
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Old 11-17-2020, 6:09 PM
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Yes. Bill Johnson. Now i have to google dominion theology...

i've been attending church since youth and i've never seen a situation like this. 100% of the elder board demanded he resign. He refused so they all resigned. In the end, there was so much anger from the congregation that he resigned a couple months later. I'm in the camp that's staying at the church. He left and started a new church. For now, i'm staying put since I'm not sure who's right on this one.

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Is this the place ( Bethel church ) with a pastor named Johnson ? If so he is into Dominion theology, which I will not comment on. But IF your pastor is for real, stand by him ! Love, graceful, helpful, endeavors to be Christlike as best he can, uses scripture as written not as twisted and screwed over etc.

Psalm 1
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Old 11-17-2020, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Garand Hunter View Post
Is this the place ( Bethel church ) with a pastor named Johnson ? If so he is into Dominion theology, which I will not comment on. But IF your pastor is for real, stand by him ! Love, graceful, helpful, endeavors to be Christlike as best he can, uses scripture as written not as twisted and screwed over etc.

Psalm 1
Agree.

I read the definition of "Dominion Theology " here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology

I would say it is divisive but not Heresy.
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Old 11-17-2020, 6:21 PM
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Bethel Church is an American non-denominational charismatic megachurch...
Got all the basic ingredients of "heresy."
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Old 11-17-2020, 7:03 PM
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Got all the basic ingredients of "heresy."
Sola scriptura

Got any scripture to back that up?
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Old 11-17-2020, 9:46 PM
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Charismatic is not heresy ! Its a new definition for Full Gospel which was a new definition for Pentecostal. How do I know that ? I am one of them. Add On, Not saying I am a member of Bethel Church, Oakley is a few hundred miles from Redding. I am a practicing Full Gospel believer, and fellowship with Charismatics when opportunity ocurs.

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Last edited by Garand Hunter; 11-18-2020 at 2:08 PM.. Reason: added sentence
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Old 11-17-2020, 10:03 PM
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I attend Bethel Church. I have for the past 4 years. Yes, it is charismatic but it is 100% based on Scripture. I don't even know what dominion theology is but the only Theology preached from the pulpit is the Bible.

Bethel has a TON of enemies and a TON of bad press, but it's usually from people that have never ever visited the church.

In the end, each person will be judged according to how they stewarded their faith.
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Old 11-18-2020, 4:29 AM
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Sola scriptura

Got any scripture to back that up?

- Non-denominational: check the wind next week - new doctrines forthcoming
- charismatic: the "Holy" Spirit is STILL inventing new scriptures and doctrines - just ASK us!
- megachurch: where the casually religious can hide in the stadium seating (what are the odds the Pastor will see ME, and ask ME to do something?) on Sunday, yet still be able to talk about 'going to church' around the watercooler on Tuesday afternoon.

Yep - sola scriptura: NOWHERE in sight!
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Old 11-18-2020, 4:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bryanrheem View Post
I attend Bethel Church. I have for the past 4 years. Yes, it is charismatic but it is 100% based on Scripture. I don't even know what dominion theology is but the only Theology preached from the pulpit is the Bible.

Bethel has a TON of enemies and a TON of bad press, but it's usually from people that have never ever visited the church.

In the end, each person will be judged according to how they stewarded their faith.
Bethel gets bad press. Hillsongs got bad press. So did those mega churches in Texas and Chicago. (The names escape me.) My pastor asked me if we do any songs by Bethel or Hillsong. He was concerned about heresy as he read something on the internet.

Luke 9:49-50 (NIV)

“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
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Old 11-18-2020, 2:13 PM
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Good words from Kokopelli as usual. Good perspective Bro.

Psalm 1
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Old 11-18-2020, 2:38 PM
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Bethel Church focuses on miracles. They teach that all miracles described in the Bible can be performed by believers today and happen regularly, including faith healing of everything from curing cancer to regrowing limbs, raising the dead, speaking in tongues, casting out demons and prophecy

If wiki is correct that sounds like some interesting services.
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Old 11-18-2020, 3:17 PM
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Ahhh..... organized religion - where they feed on their own.
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Old 11-18-2020, 3:17 PM
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Bethel Church focuses on miracles. They teach that all miracles described in the Bible can be performed by believers today and happen regularly, including faith healing of everything from curing cancer to regrowing limbs, raising the dead, speaking in tongues, casting out demons and prophecy

If wiki is correct that sounds like some interesting services.
If that's the case, they are way, way out there. That's all BS.
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Old 11-18-2020, 4:01 PM
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The obvious question we must ask ourselves is this; Is large numbers of persons attending Bethel, and Bethel’s huge worship music fan base, the work of the devil or the work of the Holy Spirit? Are lives changed and Christ proclaimed there?

Read all of Acts 5:17-42. But here is the core of the passage....

Acts 5:38 “Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
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Old 11-18-2020, 5:06 PM
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Well I honestly didn't know since there's a lot of misinformation on any subject on the internet. In this case, we have a calgunner who attends there and he and I attended the same church for over a decade (not bethel). I trust his judgement. Also, as Kokopelli pointed out, I, for one, am blessed by the worship music coming from Bethel (here's one of my favorites"

So, I guess my question is answered. Thank you all and God bless.

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Old 11-18-2020, 5:22 PM
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Bill Johnson, Dominion Theology, Word of Faith, and NAR (New Apostolic Reformation), bunch of signs and wonders stuff. Everything there is man-centered, not Christ-centered. God is a means to an end in churches like that.

http://www.piratechristian.com/fight...bill%20johnson jump to 43:54 to get a sermon review on just ONE of Bill Johnson's things.
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Old 11-18-2020, 6:33 PM
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Ahhh..... organized religion - where they feed on their own.
As opposed to other groups like ... oh ... gun owners? I'm sure nobody would have a problem if I suggested some "common sense gun control" or said "nobody needs an assault rifle" or god forbid "9mm has plenty of stopping power"!
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Old 11-18-2020, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
- Non-denominational: check the wind next week - new doctrines forthcoming
- charismatic: the "Holy" Spirit is STILL inventing new scriptures and doctrines - just ASK us!
- megachurch: where the casually religious can hide in the stadium seating (what are the odds the Pastor will see ME, and ask ME to do something?) on Sunday, yet still be able to talk about 'going to church' around the watercooler on Tuesday afternoon.

Yep - sola scriptura: NOWHERE in sight!
You created several straw men but didn't show from scripture why the items in the list are the basic ingredients of heresy.

In my experience, Non-denominational churches are more likely to follow scripture than old denominations like the Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Lutherans...

All three are in the process of fracturing due to the acceptance of heresies and moral compromise. I have known a number of believers that were leaving due to the changes that were being made to long held biblical doctrines.
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Old 11-18-2020, 7:52 PM
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The obvious question we must ask ourselves is this; Is large numbers of persons attending Bethel, and Bethel’s huge worship music fan base, the work of the devil or the work of the Holy Spirit? Are lives changed and Christ proclaimed there?

Read all of Acts 5:17-42. But here is the core of the passage....

Acts 5:38 “Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
This is good...

My personal belief is that most of the charismatic stuff is non-sense but we can't deny that it is possible. We read Acts and I think there was a lot of time between miracles, yet many churches want their followers to believe that miracles are happening every Sunday. Even if my belief on this is absolute truth, it doesn't rise to the level of heresy.
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Old 11-18-2020, 8:20 PM
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I live near the church in Redding.
I do not go there but some extended family members do.
In my neighborhood there are a lot of homes that are leased out to students attending Bethel church
And from my experience Bethel church members and students are very polite and make good neighbors.

They seem to get bad press in Redding from time to time, but honestly I think it is because the church is huge and at times it seems as they are taking over the town. Some folks seem to resent that.

But I think it is just a reflection of the times we live in, Hate for Christians everywhere is on the rise and the church is a big target.

Bethel does good things for Redding , so in my book they are all good ... no matter if they practice in miracles or not ..

Last edited by fighter4cage; 11-18-2020 at 8:25 PM..
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Old 02-02-2021, 2:18 AM
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I live in Redding and was a former member of Bethel. I went there for a few years. Dated girls that went through BSSM. My sister was also a pastor there. I don’t feel comfortable spreading everything in the open forum here because there is a lot to unravel. Both good, bad, and mis-information. Message me if you want me to go into detail. I will say this tho. Bethel was dismissed from the Assemblies of God denomination many years ago. I’m not entirely sure why. They have boasted about the many miracles that have happened within the church. Some I’m sure are from God, while others I’m sure are from people. Where there is real Holy Spirit, there is sometimes counterfeit. A church divided cannot stand, however if every church with sin was ordered to close, we’d all be left worshipping under bridges. Rom 3:23

The issue I have with bethel...is their 1 focus doctrine. They preach about signs and wonders, healing and miracles. Thats it. Everything else derives from this. So for the new Christian, they aren’t getting the entire message of Christ. Bethel is a feel good, body movin, roller coaster ride of loud prayer, loud worship and healing. And I’m all for that. That is awesome. However, its important to not ignore the other 90% of the Bible. I believe Bethel has become a Brand. An image. The church is more important to many than their personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I have personally experienced some really bad things from that church. Most of it derived from leadership not communicating with their people. Essentially, when a church gets that large, politics are inevitably a factor. Which means it gets much harder to do things in fellowship, as personal connection is required. I think this is why we see MEGA churches become conventions and concerts. As opposed to the close fellowship Christ talked about regarding the church. I could go on, but like I said, for specifics, message me and I’d be happy to share my personal experiences and that of my Sisters.
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:12 AM
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Brethren,

my church is going through rough times. The senior pastor was accused of heresy and the accusers claim he has ties to Bethel Church in Redding. I didn't realize this was a bad thing? I enjoy the songs from Bethel church, but when i started web searching, i see the church is tied to perhaps questionable doctrine and behavior.

Do any of you church goers have any thoughts on this church? As we all know, the internet is full of information including bad information, so i figured I'd come here and ask.

Take care and stay safe out there.
No personal experience, but Bethel is well-known for promoting heresy. You can find a wide assortment of believers who speak specifically and directly regarding the false teachings of Bethel Church.

For example:

The last one is something I have been thinking about because the church I attend does sometimes use Bethel and Hillsong tunes during worship, and I am conflicted over this practice.

If you are thinking to leave a church, there is wisdom regarding this if you care to look for it. I have watched some of these and I am still thinking and praying.

Personally I found what Voddie Baucham shared was helpful.
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Old 02-04-2021, 5:12 PM
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Well known for promoting heresy ? If we disagree with them its automatic heresy ? Not so. Measure what you hear against actual information provided by " the suspected heretics " and apply the scriptures against that information. Heresy is usually cast about on folks some see as " Not like Us " without taking the effort to examine the facts. I am not defending Bill Johnson, just saying have you and the others throwing HERESY labels around actually checking out the truth of what this church actually teaches, or are you listening to hearsay !

Psalm 1

Last edited by Garand Hunter; 02-04-2021 at 5:13 PM.. Reason: sentence structure
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Old 02-04-2021, 9:02 PM
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I fixed the link to the first video I posted from "Polite Leader" on YT, who uses his video to highlight specific passages from Bill Johnson's book. Justin Peters also raises some very specific problems in this video. Watch them and judge for yourself.

I try to be discriminating and very selective in what I read, so I am not going to waste time reading something by Bill Johnson, but it is Justin Peters and other people whom I respect who are labeling Bethel as heretical.
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Old 02-04-2021, 11:16 PM
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I don't watch stuff, videos from others Jim Peters or anyone, I check out what the person accused has to say first. As to Jim Peters I have no clue who he is.
As I said, check out what the accused of heresy has to say directly or forget about it. Attacking the Word of faith ministries has been popular for a long time. Just more attacking the minister without addressing the message directly. I subscribe to " the word of faith is nigh you even the word we preach. Easy to slam something you know nothing about. I have studied this and practice speaking the word since 1983 in my daily life ever since. Wanna call me a heretic ?

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Old 02-05-2021, 1:31 PM
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Yep - sola scriptura: NOWHERE in sight!
That's pretty ironic, though. "Sola Scriptura" isn't printed anywhere in the Vulgate, from my recollection. The idea to only use scripture wasn't something advocated by the scriptures themselves but coined by a guy who was justifiably fed up with being bogged down by the tradition, bureaucracy and BS of the Roman church about 1400 years after the last NT book was written. It was a fine idea, to be sure. But definitely not the only valid way to practice Christianity (how about all those East-coasters based in Greece, for example). After all, not even the apostles themselves had the New Testament scripture during their lifetime. It took 300 years just to come to an agreement what the New Testament would be (even then!).
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Old 02-05-2021, 5:13 PM
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[...] Just more attacking the minister without addressing the message directly. [...]
Ironic, an issue frequently raised in the videos upthread is the anti-intellectual, "God forbid you use your God-given brain to think carefully" heart posture of many word-of-faith false teachers. Too, don't take it as a personal attack, but your dismissive statement is false. The videos I posted do not contain personal attacks against any of the word-of-faith false teachers; rather, they offer a serious look at their false teachings and how they stray from scripture. Again, I would invite you to see for yourself.
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Old 02-05-2021, 6:09 PM
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The videos you linked were next to other videos by Jim Peters talking about Word of Faith teachers, I did not include that in my above reply. Your reply above is pure double talk.

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Old 02-11-2021, 2:52 PM
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how about you-all log on to youtube and listen to pastor Bill with your own ears? For those that have ears to hear, let them hear (Mt 11:15). Then you can make an informed decision, not some one else's opinion. I've probably heard about 40 or 50 of his sermons on my way to work. Amazing, love to hear him preach, he has brought me tears and holy bumps more time than I can count. never seen him in person.

The sermons are preached by the power of the holy spirit and from the scriptures. He has taught me profound things such as; about being a father and husband, following in Jesus footsteps, stewarding my community, and ushering in the kingdom. This is not a watered down faith approach. It is roll up your sleeves and keep marching on to Zion. Thy kingdom come, thy will done!

Do you desire to walk in authority and power, and use Jesus name to heal the sick and cast out evil spirits? I do. Jesus said: "you will do greater works than these" in the scripture and plainly tells his followers to do so - I mean miracles. For example:

Very Truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I have been doing , and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the father. John 14:12

As for post 15 above..."BS" to heal the sick? Okay, open up your bible my friend. If you dont believe in the power of Jesus Name and Spirit to heal then maybe you need to spend some more time with your savior (as we all do).

many are called but few are chosen. Endure my friends. Listen to the word any way you can. Or else your faith will grow cold; those that stand firm till the end will be saved. (Mathew: 24:13).

Last edited by rghouse; 02-12-2021 at 6:53 AM..
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Old 02-12-2021, 9:20 AM
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Excellent response rghouse ! And #15 is clueless as to prayer for healing. I personally have been blessed by prayer for health issues at different times in my life and members of my family also. But deniers will deny anyway.

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Old 03-07-2021, 7:17 PM
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There is a Bethel Church in Eureka which is connected to the one in Shasta. My kids do their youth sports programs there in the winter. Nice people.
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Old 03-30-2021, 1:01 AM
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Man oh man is bethel on a bad path. But you know people love to put their pastors and churches on pedestals. I mean it's blatant but a pointless thing to argue about.

He does preach heresy and some big people have called him out and gone over sermon after sermon of him going of the rails or being non biblical. But sure make those gray areas all day.
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Old 03-30-2021, 10:10 AM
daveyclimber daveyclimber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanrheem View Post
I attend Bethel Church. I have for the past 4 years. Yes, it is charismatic but it is 100% based on Scripture. I don't even know what dominion theology is but the only Theology preached from the pulpit is the Bible.

Bethel has a TON of enemies and a TON of bad press, but it's usually from people that have never ever visited the church.

In the end, each person will be judged according to how they stewarded their faith.
Amen. Everyone can benefit from listening to Bill and Kris. I wouldn't really consider Bethel a megachurch. There are much larger churches out there that in my opinion do less for the kingdom.
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Old 09-01-2022, 3:24 PM
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This`s why sects are fascinating to many, because they`re very similar to official church teachings, but promote their own theories that go against accepted norms. I understand that your pastor may be a good person, I wouldn't judge him, everyone makes his own choices. Of course I can understand you too, when that happens parishioners probably feel cheated. I`m a parishioner of churches in portland, we haven`t had this happen, and I trust our pastor wholeheartedly. It`s important to find a church without false teaching, it may not always be understood from the first service, but you have to be critical, after all, there`s a lot of deception in the world.

Last edited by adbrush; 09-05-2022 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 09-01-2022, 7:50 PM
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Dominion theology seems more of a personal belief than a way to structure a church. It's like the idea that space aliens aren't space aliens, but demons... or that the 10 lost tribes of Israel migrated to Europe (British Israelism)... it's odd, but doctrine-wise it's an opinion that cannot be proved or disproven. I'd tread lightly here.
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Old 09-02-2022, 6:10 AM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
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Dominion Theology also says that the church ( church overall ) will overcome all evil and takeover the earth. Then Jesus will return. Does not fly with the scriptures-Holy Bible. Disagree, ok but is what my research reveals. That is why the name DOMINION is used.

Psalm 1

Last edited by Garand Hunter; 09-02-2022 at 6:11 AM.. Reason: added sentence
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Old 09-02-2022, 11:48 AM
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a worldly "Christian" empire?

sounds like its ruler would be a prime candidate to be the anti-Christ.

Holy Scripture proclaims the Heavenly Kingdom- let us turn our backs on this world.
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Old 09-02-2022, 1:34 PM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
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I forget his name, but the founder of Dominion Theology checked out about 2 1/2 years ago, it took too long to come to pass. EDIT: Seems his last name was Wagner, maybe not.

Psalm 1

Last edited by Garand Hunter; 09-03-2022 at 9:13 AM.. Reason: added sentence
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