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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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Fed LEO hand gun purchase limit
Are Fed LEOs exempt from the one handgun per 30 day limit? I’ve had turners tell me there is no limit for both state and fed and then the glockstore tell me one per month. Can someone clarify?
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#4
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CA Penal Code § 27535 (2017)
(a) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following: (1) Any law enforcement agency. (2) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties. (3) Any state or local correctional facility. (4) Any private security company licensed to do business in California. (5) Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, and who is authorized to, and does carry a firearm during the course and scope of employment as a peace officer. (6) Any motion picture, television, or video production company or entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature involves the use of a firearm. (7) Any person who may, pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 27600), Article 3 (commencing with Section 27650), or Article 4 (commencing with Section 27700), claim an exemption from the waiting period set forth in Section 27540. (8) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050). (9) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) of Chapter 2. (10) The exchange of a handgun where the dealer purchased that firearm from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement. (11) The replacement of a handgun when the person’s handgun was lost or stolen, and the person reported that firearm lost or stolen prior to the completion of the application to purchase to any local law enforcement agency of the city, county, or city and county in which the person resides. (12) The return of any handgun to its owner. (13) A community college that is certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training to present the law enforcement academy basic course or other commission-certified law enforcement training. (Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.) |
#5
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To break it down for people, PC27535(a) is the 1 handgun DROS every 30-day rule, which starting July 1, 2021, will become 1 semiautomatic centerfire rifle or 1 handgun DROS every 30 days.
Under PC27535(b)(5), a peace officer as defined under Californian law, is not subject to the 1-per-30-day rule. Under Californian law, specifically PC830.8, federal law enforcement still have certain powers as officers in California but are not considered peace officers. So federal law enforcement are still subject to 1-per-30-days. |
#6
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With Gov Newsome signing a bunch of new laws slated to go into effect in 2021. Under SB 61. This is the section that allows Federal Officers to purchase more than one in 30 days. There is another code section that allows Federal Agencies and its personnel to purchase. Your agency must be primarly Law Enforcement. This is a series of Laws that in conjuction will allow the exemption of the 1 in 30 rule. But if your able to get better clarification.. Please share the info. CA PC 32000 (b)(4) Off-Roster (4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, the Department of Justice, a police department, a sheriff’s official, a marshal’s office, the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the Department of the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney’s office, any federal law enforcement agency, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties. This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun. 27535. (a) A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle within any 30-day period. This subdivision does not authorize a person to make an application to purchase both a handgun and semiautomatic centerfire rifle within the same 30-day period. (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following: (1) Any law enforcement agency. (2) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties. (3) Any state or local correctional facility. (4) Any private security company licensed to do business in California. (5) Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, and who is authorized to, and does carry a firearm during the course and scope of employment as a peace officer. (6) Any motion picture, television, or video production company or entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature involves the use of a firearm. (7) Any person who may, pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 27600), Article 3 (commencing with Section 27650), or Article 4 (commencing with Section 27700), claim an exemption from the waiting period set forth in Section 27540. (8) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050). (9) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) of Chapter 2. (10) The exchange of a handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle where the dealer purchased that firearm from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement. (11) The replacement of a handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle when the person’s firearm was lost or stolen, and the person reported that firearm lost or stolen pursuant to Section 25250 prior to the completion of the application to purchase the replacement. (12) The return of any handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle to its owner. (13) A community college that is certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training to present the law enforcement academy basic course or other commission-certified law enforcement training. (c) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2021. Last edited by Rogue187; 10-18-2020 at 3:34 PM.. Reason: grammer |
#7
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As for off-roster purchases, again organizations are different from individuals. Individual officers can buy off-roster because of the sentence, "This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun." But non-sworn employees of law enforcement offices such as a clerical worker in a District Attorney's office or a Sheriff's office cannot buy off-roster. Second, did you read SB61? Did you see the changes that SB61 made to PC27535? I see nothing in SB61 or in the official bill analyses for SB61 that mention officers of federal agencies in regards to 1-in-30. What I do see is general prohibition for people under 21 to purchase firearms but a a carveout for "An active federal officer or law enforcement agent who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of employment" who is between age 18 and age 21 being allowed to purchase firearms. PC27535, as amended by SB1494 from January 1, 2019 to December 31, 2019, said: Penal Code section 27535, as amended by SB61 (2019), as it currently reads, and how it is from January 1, 2020 to July 1, 2021 says: (a) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period.PC27535, as amended by SB61 (2019), will say as of July 1, 2021: (a) A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle within any 30-day period. This subdivision does not authorize a person to make an application to purchase both a handgun and semiautomatic centerfire rifle within the same 30-day period. Last edited by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ; 10-18-2020 at 3:51 PM.. |
#8
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Let's put it this way.
I don't and have never needed more than one firearm in less than 30 days. If you do, have your department Chief, Sheriff, etc. write an exemption for you on a department letterhead. All the the LGS I've shopped at allowed me to "buy" more than one firearm at a time and we just DROS'ed one every 30 days. It's pretty simple, really. The law is mostly for shops and FFLs. One shop interprets it one way and the other interprets it another. It's confusing as you can tell. There are other requirements like buying ammo and magazines from online retailers. I forget the exact verbiage, but it requires a LEO to show they are a full-time peace officer with a signature from the Chief, Sheriff, etc. Many online retailers want a department letterhead. Well, my department ID has all of that and that should suffice. Some retailers believe it suffices and others do not. Pretty simple. |
#10
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Turners said feds where exempt and I was able to dros all three pistols without any issues. Talking to coworkers and they told me the glock store is always behind the curve and just recently began giving us the high cap magazines that come with their guns...
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#11
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However, I think we can all concede that the statue is not clear at all regarding exempting Fed LEOs. Perhaps the Fed LEO exemptions are the CA DOJ management unofficial "interpretation" of the statue....aka statues were poorly written, we are not going after any Feds or FFLs for this, and its not worth the trouble to pass new legislation to update the statues. |
#12
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Procedural note: once a bill has passed and been 'chaptered', do not refer to the bill language for current law.
Refer only to the sections published at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml - those will have incorporated the effects of subsequent bills and propositions. On the topic, see https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo for everything except the 1-in-30. Granting that those AG/Firearms pages are often incomplete or out of date, the omission of mention of Federal LE from the 1-in-30 suggests the plain language of 27535, which also omits mention of Federal LE from 1-in-30, is likely correct. There may be DOJ rulings transmitted to CA FFLs, to which I have no access, that say something different.
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#13
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Deputy U.S. Marshals are. They are the only Fed agency that makes arrests. All others make apprehensions, there is a difference.
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#14
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ICE, HSI and DEA would disagree with you.
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#15
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As I already referenced earlier, Penal Code section 830.8 says: Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement officers are not California peace officers, but may exercise the powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following circumstances: Last edited by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ; 10-29-2020 at 7:27 PM.. |
#17
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I don’t think that’s ever been done in the history of our agency...lol
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#18
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Peace officer designation is controlled by the state and no state statute provides peace officer designation to United States Marshals or their deputies. U.S. Marshals and their deputies do possess the same powers of arrest as the does the Sheriff of the county in which they are operating (refer to 28 USC 564) but that does not empower them as peace officers of the state. Please note that 28 USC 564 is kinda moot in California because because Penal Code section 830.8 also provides the same powers with the addition of detention authority under WIC 5150. As a side note, please explain what you think is the difference between an "arrest" and an "apprehension" (with the corresponding statutory references). Methinks that you don't really know what you're talking about, but I'd like to hear your explanation and to see what you base it on.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by RickD427; 10-31-2020 at 3:07 PM.. |
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#22
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Im guessing he means USMS are the only Fed LEO who can "arrest" and book directly into county for state crimes. Im guessing he believes all other Fed LEOs can only "apprehend" for state crimes they witness but must turn over the suspect (and supplemental report) to a CA LEO to be "arrested" and booked into county. Not sure what any of this has to do with the original post about 1 in 30 for Fed LEOs LOL. But in an attempt to stay on topic, I asked my preferred FFL this exact question. He confidently stated that it doesnt apply to Feds and would get listed as LEO exempt on DROS. This FFL has been in business for a long time and Im sure has been through many audits with CA DOJ. Pretty sure he wouldn't risk his business just to hook up some Feds. |
#23
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But your conclusion above is not correct either. Federal LEO's, regardless of whether they they are Deputy U.S. Marshals, FBI agents, DEA agents, or any other alphabet agency also have the authority to make arrests under California law (refer to PC 830.8 for the source of that authority) and may deliver persons so arrested to a booking facility. There is nothing unique about the Marshal's service in that regard.
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If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#25
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Okay, so even though I CAN buy more than one handgun at a time, should I? I've been told there is an extra step for the FFL doing DROs flagging the purchase and bringing attention that the purchase of more than 1 handgun occurred. Does that have any negative effect for the purchaser, like put me on "list" somewhere? Or does it not matter at all?
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#26
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If you want more than one firearm at a time, can buy more than one firearm at a time, and a shop will sell you more than one firearm at a time. Do it. You don't need a bunch of people on the internet to tell you what you want to do with your life.
When I bought my duty rifle, I didn't have a letter waiving my 10-day wait period, but the shop let me take it same day. Whatever. That's on them. |
#27
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