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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-23-2021, 11:10 AM
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Default Are Off-Roster guns about to be illegal?

Seriously, I mean this. I am not trying to be Chicken Little here but..I am unsure of the context of unsafe handgun in the CA penal code and how it might be referred to or used beyond Roster acceptance.
Specifically,, Article 4. "Unsafe Handgun" and Related Definitions [3190]

Could it apply to any off-Roster handgun bought via P2P, grandfathered in under the long-gone Single-shot Exemption, or that just fell off the Roster and no longer meets Roster requirements for addition to the Roster. If you use one is self-defense, can a person you otherwise legally shot in self-defense claim you used an unsafe handgun?

As used in this part, “unsafe handgun” means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, for which any of the following is true:
****
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(4) Commencing July 1, 2022, for all centerfire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it does not have a chamber load indicator.
(5) Commencing July 1, 2022, for all centerfire or rimfire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism if it has a detachable magazine.
(6) (A) Commencing July 1, 2022, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters used to identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in one or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:44 PM
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No.

Remember, police can buy off-Roster for duty and personal use - do you suppose the Powers are concerned about the Danger To The Public from police use of off-Roster handguns? (That's one of the reasons we know the Roster is not about 'safety'.)

The Roster is a 'check-off item' for FFLs.

Could a 'creative' lawyer make the attempt? Sure.
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Old 07-23-2021, 3:12 PM
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Besides, the roster keeps changing. What if a handgun you bought 17 years ago was on roster then, but is not now? Do you want to hand it in? Should silly questions be asked on open forum that PMs sent to the right people could cover...
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Old 07-23-2021, 4:55 PM
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Well there are laws against government illegal taking of property.

If they do make them illegal, they would have to grandfather you in or pay you compensation for the loss of your legally obtained property.
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Old 07-23-2021, 6:12 PM
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I'm confused as to the point of your question. So you posted the "definition" of an "unsafe handgun". And then said you have no idea what the definition applies to. To answer that, the "definition" applies to all handguns. Pretty simple. Many handguns transferred via PPT are in fact "unsafe handguns". The penal code has restrictions on the transfer of such handguns. PPT and other things are just exempt from that restriction. Could they change the law and the exemptions? Sure I guess. Could they add a law and make possession illegal? Sure they could try. But that would all be new stuff.
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Old 07-24-2021, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Are off roster handguns about to be illegal?
No.
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Last edited by ohsmily; 07-24-2021 at 3:33 PM..
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Old 07-25-2021, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
....I am unsure of the context of unsafe handgun in the CA penal code and how it might be referred to or used beyond Roster acceptance....If you use one in self-defense, can a person you otherwise legally shot in self-defense claim you used an unsafe handgun?
This seems to be the crux of your question. First, every handgun is unsafe if used improperly. Next, the CA roster is not about safety. What possible connection is there between micro-stamping and gun safety. The elements of self defense in CA are the use of force was justified by a reasonable fear of an imminent and real threat of death or great bodily to yourself or another person and you were not the original aggressor. These elements have nothing to do with the tool or weapon used to repel the attack. I suppose if the person who attacks you survives he or she could try and claim that the handgun was unsafe. I do not see how such an attempt could survive a relevancy or Evid. Code section 352 objection. Neither a magazine disconnect nor a LCI would have prevented the intentional firing of a fully loaded handgun.
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