Question About Magazine "Parts"

[DORINS9956]

I have a person representing himself as an active L.E.O. who wants to sell me a P320 M18 with 2 15 round magazines. I am retired L.E.O. but I informed him that he has to block the magazines to 10 rounds or I can't lawfully receive them. He says that he can take them apart and give me the pieces as "parts" without the transfer through the FFL. I believe that's unlawful.

Anyone who actually knows the law on this? It seems to me that his action would be an attempt to circumvent the restriction on magazine capacity for a non-exempt purchaser.

Thanks for a response.

[DORINS9956]

O.K., I'll answer my own question:

It's unlawful to transfer a "parts kit" for a high capacity magazine to a non-exempt purchaser. "Parts Kit" is loosely defined, but generally means a group of loose parts that can be assembled into a functional magazine.

Anyone else have different research results, please post it. Thanks.

[G-forceJunkie]

Have him keep/throw away the base plates, give you the parts (but not a "parts kit") and then you can assemble them with new base plates as 10 rounders or as higcaps if your exempt, the law change, or you move out of state.

[hermosabeach]

If he is a friend, buy the blocks, drill a hole and pop rivet them in place before the transfer.

[DORINS9956]

THANKS TO RESPONDERS. VERY INTERESTING.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by DORINS9956

O.K., I'll answer my own question:

It's unlawful to transfer a "parts kit" for a high capacity magazine to a non-exempt purchaser. "Parts Kit" is loosely defined, but generally means a group of loose parts that can be assembled into a functional magazine.

Anyone else have different research results, please post it. Thanks.

Penal Code 32311
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine, which is governed by Section 32310.
(b) For purposes of this section, a “large capacity magazine conversion kit” is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine.

[DORINS9956]

How does that affect the transfer of the parts without the floorplate? Without the plate, it's not a complete group of parts that can be converted or assembled into a working magazine. So, can you comment on the first response that says it's not unlawful to transfer the parts without the plate?
Seems easier to just block the mags to 10 rounds and be safe with the statute.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by DORINS9956

How does that affect the transfer of the parts without the floorplate? Without the plate, it's not a complete group of parts that can be converted or assembled into a working magazine. So, can you comment on the first response that says it's not unlawful to transfer the parts without the plate?
Seems easier to just block the mags to 10 rounds and be safe with the statute.

AFAIK...

Without a magazine floor plate, it is still a combination of parts (magazine body, spring, follower) that can be utilized to make a large capacity magazine.
Which means it can still be considered a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" and illegal to import/make/transfer in CA to a non-exempt person.

It's seems like it is subjective on determining what is or is not a "large capacity magazine conversion kit".
^It's up to the CA LEO that discovers it and the CA DA's Office that will prosecute it to decide.

For example, because CA has successfully sued out-of-state vendors for selling/shipping "large capacity magazine conversion kits" to non-exempt CA residents:
~Some out-of-state vendors will not sell/ship any part that can be utilized by a large capacity magazine to a non-exempt CA resident.
~Some out-of-state vendors will not sell/ship different magazine parts together to a non-exempt CA resident. They will sell/ship individual parts, but will not sell/ship different parts packaged together.
~Some out-of-state vendors will sell/ship most magazine parts (springs, followers, floor plates) and will package them together, but will not sell/ship large capacity magazine bodies to non-exempt persons.

[Garrett128]

As an honorably retired sworn peace officer, you can legally possess "large capacity magazines." Refer to Assembly Bill 1192 (2018). See link below to the state website. If someone has other info please chime in if this is incorrect.


http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01720180AB1192

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Garrett128

As an honorably retired sworn peace officer, you can legally possess "large capacity magazines." Refer to Assembly Bill 1192 (2018). See link below to the state website. If someone has other info please chime in if this is incorrect.


http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01720180AB1192

Honorably retired LEOs can legally possess large capacity magazines. [PC 32406(a)]

However, honorable retired LEOs are not granted an exemption that allows them to legally acquire large capacity magazines or large capacity magazine conversion kits.

[DORINS9956]

It seems from what you're saying is that honorably retired LEs can possess large capacity mags but can't legally purchase them, since we're not exempt from the statute in acquiring them.
That's completely confusing when it comes to acquiring an off-register pistol from an active LE with only large capacity mags included with the gun.
So, from the standpoint of the transfer, the active LE should just order 2 10-round mags for the sale to the retired LE and be done with it. It should be legal at that point as a private sale. Am I missing something?

[lastinline]

Originally Posted by DORINS9956

I have a person representing himself as an active L.E.O. who wants to sell me a……..”

I’d be very careful with this person; unless you really know them well personally, they could be looking for an easy roll-up, and away you go. Do the PPT at a shop that will block the magazines, and pay the shop a bit extra to do it. Giving you the “kits” later would be an easy bust, and seeing that he/she already sold you a gun that can use them would make it tidy, cut and dried case.

[DORINS9956]

Thanks for your input. We're on the same page with this seller. No, I don't know the seller, but even if I did, I'm not interested in an unlawful purchase.

The P320 M18 is now approved in five states that have CA-like strict requirements for sales, so I believe that Sig may currently be looking to get CA DOJ Roster listing for this model. I can wait for it.

Also, I am beginning to believe that the seller is actually not an active L.E.O. Too many clues for a scam.

[Milsurp1]

Waiting for Sig to add microstamping to the M18/P320? That is extremely unlikely to ever happen.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by DORINS9956

Retired LE and Large Capacity Mag Possession

It seems from what you're saying is that honorably retired LEs can possess large capacity mags but can't legally purchase them, since we're not exempt from the statute in acquiring them.
That's completely confusing when it comes to acquiring an off-register pistol from an active LE with only large capacity mags included with the gun.
So, from the standpoint of the transfer, the active LE should just order 2 10-round mags for the sale to the retired LE and be done with it. It should be legal at that point as a private sale. Am I missing something?

When CA made possession of a large capacity magazine illegal [PC 32310(c),(d)], they add an exemption that allowed honorably retired LEOs to continue to possess the large capacity magazines they legally acquired when their were active LEOs [PC 32406(a)].
^The Federal Courts have issued a stay on the enforcement of the possession of large capacity magazines being illegal, which is why non-prohibited persons can still possess the large capacity magazines they legally acquired.

Since they are not granted an exemption to acquire large capacity magazines, retired LEOs can not legally acquire large capacity magazines.
So, they are treated like every other non-prohibited CA resident, when acquiring an off-Roster handgun via PPT.

Therefore...
The transferor (seller) will need to do one of the following before the PPT occurs:
A. Permanently alter the large capacity magazines into 10 round magazines.
B. Replace the large capacity magazines with factory 10 round magazines.
C. Do not include any magazines with the firearm.
If no magazines are included with the firearm, then the transferor (buyer) will need to acquire 10 round magazines for it and have one available for the mandatory safe handling demonstration.

[DORINS9956]

All understood. I just think that a seller who claims to be an active LEO that just ordered the M18, but wants to sell because he wants an M17, should order 2 10-round mags to go with the M18 when he sells it to a non-exempt buyer. Easy and simple and avoids the legal nonsense with magazines.

If you're charging two or three times the MSRP for the gun because people are willing to put up with this, then at least give them the legal magazines and avoid hassles.

Wouldn't make sense to have trained and trusted retired LEOs on the street with the ability to intervene in an active shooter scenario, just like the civilian in Indianapolis? Maybe California should think Public Safety instead of 2nd Amendment for a change.