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  #81  
Old 06-16-2018, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
His brother became one.
So he did. There was an order that the OP was probably unaware of to confiscate his guns. Not a prohibited person until convicted of something. Still the USA and the BoR still applies.

Also, again, that confiscation of all the firearms was an unreasonable seizure. Regardless of how it plays out in CA.

The biggest thing that bothers me here is that the OP was caught up in an unfortunate situation and the gloating of Calgunners saying "your fault".

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Last edited by floogy; 06-16-2018 at 8:21 AM..
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  #82  
Old 06-16-2018, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
"Nobody's fault but yours!" "Should have known better!"

C'mon folks, are we being helpful to our brother? Sometimes (often?) on CalGuns I have noticed a tendency to jump people's case and even belittle them for minor mistakes they may or may not have made. In fact I have been guilty of this... This is a fellow gun enthusiast, not our enemy. I think we can suggest how things might have been done better without pointing fingers and saying in essence "sucks to be you!"

The OP did not break any law, and yet he had his guns taken. This is the part we need to focus on right?
Well said!
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  #83  
Old 06-16-2018, 9:06 AM
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Do the LEGR.. get the guns and convert to featureless..

Of course, if the LEO has the guns after the date, then they will say they are not illegal unregistered assault weapons and keep them even though they are only illegal because they took them and prevented you from registering or converting them.

At worst they would hand you back the guns after the date and then immediately arrest you for prossesion of unregistered assault weapons.

For the govt, and most police, it isn't about doing what's right, fair, or sensical.. it's about furthering some sort of agenda.

If you can't get the guns back by the end of the month I think you are pretty screwed.
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  #84  
Old 06-16-2018, 9:07 AM
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Also, after reading the responses in this thread it's clear we have quite a few aholes on this board..

Nice community we have when some peoples first response is to bash the OP instead of trying to help his figure out how to work withing CA's insane laws.

Sad
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  #85  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
Thanks, that makes sense.

What if you could change the combination in front of officers for your guns, denying access to the brother?
If it was me personally, I would not be comfortable with that. There's no guarantee the parents or brother would not simply tell the arrested person the new code. They clearly have been running a household where everyone had access to all the firearms. If it was set up that way prior to being there, then fine. I guess its just a trust issue at that point. Since the OP mentioned he had some C&R guns, I would imagine most if not all were unregistered so proving ownership would have been difficult to establish.

Thats just my take on the situation.
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  #86  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
Also, after reading the responses in this thread it's clear we have quite a few aholes on this board..

Nice community we have when some peoples first response is to bash the OP instead of trying to help his figure out how to work withing CA's insane laws.

Sad
Mistakes were made and there's no way for any of us to offer advice that can make the outcome of those mistakes any less unpleasant.
So the conversation moves to WHAT mistakes were made, and how can we avoid those mistakes in the future.

It's not about being an a-hole, it's about helping others avoid the same situation. People learn from mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.
I feel sorry for the OP, it's a bad situation that would not exist outside of California, New York, or Hawaii.
Hopefully, our SCOTUS clears out all of these BS laws and applies 2A equally to the entire country.
Not going to happen this year.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 06-16-2018 at 1:28 PM..
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  #87  
Old 06-16-2018, 1:25 PM
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  #88  
Old 06-17-2018, 3:09 AM
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Originally Posted by floogy View Post
So he did. There was an order that the OP was probably unaware of to confiscate his guns. Not a prohibited person until convicted of something. Still the USA and the BoR still applies.

Also, again, that confiscation of all the firearms was an unreasonable seizure. Regardless of how it plays out in CA.

The biggest thing that bothers me here is that the OP was caught up in an unfortunate situation and the gloating of Calgunners saying "your fault".

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Who's gloating? I wasn't. Just stating the fact the OP made a mistake and it was his fault, but no one was gloating.
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  #89  
Old 06-17-2018, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by spddrcr View Post
winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!!
the calguns eating it's own BS is getting really old and tired at this point though. It's no wonder 0 gun laws or regulations go our way in CA.
Too many uc liberals who have infiltrated our ranks, spewing Cali toxicity.
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  #90  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2 View Post
Also, after reading the responses in this thread it's clear we have quite a few aholes on this board..

Nice community we have when some peoples first response is to bash the OP instead of trying to help his figure out how to work withing CA's insane laws.

Sad
He's done - he is not getting these back. At least not for less than he paid or could replace them for. Not enough time. And one of them was potentially in an illegal configuration, what with having no mag catch.

There is no helping him get them back now, the only help we can offer now is to keep it real with him, so maybe it doesn't happen to him again or to someone else. Sometimes the best way to learn not to hammer your finger when nailing, is to hammer the living F out of your finger when nailing. Consider this the hammering. If we soothed him with a feather, he'd be back here in 6 months talking about how his brother done F'd him over again.
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  #91  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:31 PM
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Have you asked the holding agency to store the uppers and lowers separately so that according to the Cal DoJ refs they won’t become assault weapons on July 1? Then maybe you could get them back disassembled and make them featureless before reassembling.
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  #92  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:37 PM
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A random scenario here but what if the brothers guns were in a duffle bag or under yhe bed of his old bedroom at his parents house? Not in OPs safe at all but once parents have let them in they see the safe and want access to that too? I know california has some random locked container ordinances.

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  #93  
Old 06-17-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
Have you asked the holding agency to store the uppers and lowers separately so that according to the Cal DoJ refs they won’t become assault weapons on July 1? Then maybe you could get them back disassembled and make them featureless before reassembling.
Go ya one better. Ask the holding agency to return only the uppers with any optics. Perhaps if you have a friend that can take the trigger assembly out if it's an expensive one. They can keep the lowers (or the remaining of what's left of the receiver) in their entirety and destroy them. Might give you two benefits:

1. The lower in question is no longer in his possession and therefore no issue with BBAW or any such nonsense and there is no need to register anything. he is not taking possession of an illegal weapon if it gets back to him after 01JUL18.

2. He can rebuild the lower as a featureless after buying a fully milled out lower receiver (bare frame) from an LGS. No AW "violation" or registration issue and he is not taking possession of any questionable item, regardless of July 1 or not.

If the agency is willing to do that, the OP could consider this a lesson in life that will cost whatever it takes to replace the lower. I know it isn't the best answer; the cops took more than they should have, but given the circumstances took what they may have had a reasonable cause to take. We can speculate all we want. Regardless, I think this would be a good solution because at the end of the day, if the cops are willing to work with him and do this, he can sleep well knowing the entire thing goes away.

Just a thought.

EDIT: It was mentioned something about one of them not having a mag catch and that being a crime. I'm not up on the law with that, but wouldn't that make the rifle a single shot rifle? No mag catch and the stupid thing can't hold a magazine in it. Even if you sit it in there and turn the rifle upward to shoot it with light friction holding it, one throw of the bolt home and the mag falls out. The magazine is unusable.
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  #94  
Old 06-18-2018, 12:44 PM
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There was a thread some time ago that discussed the feasibility and liability of a firearm without a mag release. The firearm will function and cycle if you hold the magazine in by hand, and no tool is needed to remove the magazine. The general consensus was that it could be viewed as an illegal AW. The law states: (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. there is nothing in the AW law about retaining the magazine, being awkward to fire or just plain stupid.
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  #95  
Old 06-18-2018, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
There was a thread some time ago that discussed the feasibility and liability of a firearm without a mag release. The firearm will function and cycle if you hold the magazine in by hand, and no tool is needed to remove the magazine. The general consensus was that it could be viewed as an illegal AW. The law states: (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. there is nothing in the AW law about retaining the magazine, being awkward to fire or just plain stupid.
That's crazy, how can you have a detachable magazine if it's not attachable to begin with?

Guess I need to go remove the stocks and pistol grips from my separated lowers until my freedom date.
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  #96  
Old 06-18-2018, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
There was a thread some time ago that discussed the feasibility and liability of a firearm without a mag release. The firearm will function and cycle if you hold the magazine in by hand, and no tool is needed to remove the magazine. The general consensus was that it could be viewed as an illegal AW. The law states: (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. there is nothing in the AW law about retaining the magazine, being awkward to fire or just plain stupid.
The new regs state that a receiver that does not have a magazine catch installed "does not have a fixed magazine"
Yes, I know the wording of the law governing pistols and shotguns remains unchanged and still references the "detachable" magazine as a feature. The DOJ "corrected that oversight" in their (underground) regulations that became law when filed.

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Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
That's crazy, how can you have a detachable magazine if it's not attachable to begin with?
The regs no longer say "detachable magazine"... the regs consider it an AW if it does not have a fixed magazine. The regs outline the differences between "Detachable", "Fixed", and "Permanent"
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Guess I need to go remove the stocks and pistol grips from my separated lowers until my freedom date.
Your separated lowers are fine per the wording of the enacted regs.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #97  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:22 PM
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Wow...just wow. Every time I think the state assembly can't do anything dumber, they manage to convince me with a new level of moronic.

But at least they're consistently stupid. Anyone hear about that 55 gal per day water limit?

(Rhetorical question. Not the right thread for an actual answer)
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:44 PM
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Man that sucks OP. LEO oftentimes don't really care about these things...they just grab everything they can. Don't mind the negative responses of some...you couldn't have really seen this coming or imagined that your guns would get jacked.

Like others have mentioned...you have the potential option of see if they will seperate the uppers and lowers and basically dissasemble the parts and take those. This might be a decent option but honestly...knowing how the laws are and how the agencies are...this doesn't seem likely. It is worth a shot though...
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:47 PM
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As far as this thread goes, I'm really disappointed to see some of the responses that people are giving. The average person isn't a lawyer who spends all day studying the minutia of gun laws and all of the possible ways they can protect themselves from getting screwed over by some technicality. Even lawyers are unable to make sense of all of these laws at this point.

The best approach is to actually help the OP get his damn guns back...not blame him for something that is completely outside of the law.
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  #100  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Supersapper View Post
Wow...just wow. Every time I think the state assembly can't do anything dumber, they manage to convince me with a new level of moronic.

But at least they're consistently stupid. Anyone hear about that 55 gal per day water limit?

(Rhetorical question. Not the right thread for an actual answer)
I understand that the Legislature is about to submit a bill that would prohibit surfing and skiing on the same day. You will, however, be able to wallow in your assigned tenement to enjoy the collective stench from not being to bathe and do laundry. Running water and toilet flushing will be allowed on the same two days a week that you can water your outside potted plant.
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  #101  
Old 06-19-2018, 6:48 AM
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I understand that the Legislature is about to submit a bill that would prohibit surfing and skiing on the same day. You will, however, be able to wallow in your assigned tenement to enjoy the collective stench from not being to bathe and do laundry. Running water and toilet flushing will be allowed on the same two days a week that you can water your outside potted plant.
Unless you are an undocumented immigrant? All the water you need, free college tuition and free healthcare? Who says we have the right to separate him from grandma and cousins back home? Let them in already, grandma needs her hip replaced and cousin wants to attend Cal or UCLA!
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  #102  
Old 06-19-2018, 7:28 AM
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Wow...just wow. Every time I think the state assembly can't do anything dumber, they manage to convince me with a new level of moronic.
A full-time legislature with a part-time job + an idle mind is the Devil's playground = Excremento.

They should be sweating reelection over the poor state of our roads and schools but no, they have a world to lead.
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  #103  
Old 06-19-2018, 4:04 PM
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You'd think they'd be sweating election, but why do I get the sense that no matter which way I vote, they'll be reelected? Every time I vote for someone who sounds like they would do a better job, they lose to the person that could not lead me out of a paper bag.

Emboldening them to dream up new ways to cause me to wonder how it is that the human race managed to make it this far.

I have 2 10 year old nieces (twins) who've had a rough life. A father that abandoned them, a cousin that abused them and a mother that can't parent and no one close enough to look up to (I am the closest and I live 3 hours away), yet they still try to be upbeat. What's going to be left for them?
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  #104  
Old 06-19-2018, 4:10 PM
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As far as this thread goes, I'm really disappointed to see some of the responses that people are giving. The average person isn't a lawyer who spends all day studying the minutia of gun laws and all of the possible ways they can protect themselves from getting screwed over by some technicality. Even lawyers are unable to make sense of all of these laws at this point.

The best approach is to actually help the OP get his damn guns back...not blame him for something that is completely outside of the law.
I'm at least glad you're seeing that some are trying to be helpful. I agree; OP should've been more careful about it, but LEOs could've been more forward thinking about it as well.

I know some of the old timers here are either lawyers or could be them in some cases. Their knowledge is that good. I just try to be helpful. Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not, but I try never to be offensive about it.

I enjoy being among a community that for the most part, is sympathetic to our plight...especially given that it is the plight of many (if not most) here on the forum.

Thanks again for seeing some positivity.
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  #105  
Old 06-19-2018, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
As far as this thread goes, I'm really disappointed to see some of the responses that people are giving. The average person isn't a lawyer who spends all day studying the minutia of gun laws and all of the possible ways they can protect themselves from getting screwed over by some technicality. Even lawyers are unable to make sense of all of these laws at this point.

The best approach is to actually help the OP get his damn guns back...not blame him for something that is completely outside of the law.
Unfortunately, there is nothing that any of us can do to help him get his guns back other than to recommend that he contact a good attorney, and that likely isn't going to help since he is not under any criminal charges.
He has to go through the LEGR process and there is no way to push that through.

Also unfortunately, we are responsible for understanding gun laws and how they impact our personal situations.
OP did nothing illegal... it was an unfortunate set of circumstances that resulted in Brother becoming prohibited and OP not having sufficient warning to separate their guns and lock his own up separately.

The way it SHOULD have worked was Brother should have handled it the way my boss handled it when his wife threw a DVRO on him. As soon as he was notified of the TRO, he immediately loaded all of his guns into his truck and took them to the local PD.
PD and the DA investigated, found no evidence of wrongdoing, and the day of the hearing to make the TRO permanent, well golly gee... his ex didn't show up and called to cancel the hearing, dropping the accusation about an hour before the hearing.
She did this a number of times (only once involving a DVRO), because she knew the way the system worked... she could toss out some BS and it would cost him $10k in attorney fees because he would have to prepare a defense and go to the court... only to not have to appear.

But that didn't happen, Brother owes OP big time.
But there's nothing any of us can do other than give him a virtual hug and say "bummer dude"... that's not going to help anyone else avoid a similar situation.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #106  
Old 06-22-2018, 12:12 PM
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Man, the state has most of you trained really well. Could the OP of made some better decisions? Probably, but did they have to take his guns? NO.

Lots of statist boot lickers on calguns and we wonder why their is no conservative canidates anymore that preach small/limited government and individual rights...
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  #107  
Old 06-22-2018, 1:05 PM
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Man, the state has most of you trained really well. Could the OP of made some better decisions? Probably, but did they have to take his guns? NO.

Lots of statist boot lickers on calguns and we wonder why their is no conservative canidates anymore that preach small/limited government and individual rights...
LE was required to take all firearms that the person covered under the DV restraining order had access to. You don't have to agree with the law, but pretending that they don't exist and calling people who are simply relaying the reality of the situation names doesn't solve anything.
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  #108  
Old 06-22-2018, 1:10 PM
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LE was required to take all firearms that the person covered under the DV restraining order had access to. You don't have to agree with the law, but pretending that they don't exist and calling people who are simply relaying the reality of the situation names doesn't solve anything.
On top of that, I'm not aware of any "boots" that are responsible for passing these laws.
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Old 06-22-2018, 3:00 PM
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Sorry for your troubles. Standard operating procedure in domestic violence situations is somebody, usually the guy, spends the night in the can. All firearms he has access to are taken. Since the police could only assume he had access to your safe, they’ll take them all
(if the gf had a gun they might even take that to).

A lesson to be learned regarding post registration AW’s. Since you registered you’ve most likely given permission for CADOJ to inspect them with out a warrant. So keep all your registered AW in one safe that only you have access to and another safe for everything else.


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Old 06-22-2018, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
On top of that, I'm not aware of any "boots" that are responsible for passing these laws.
Yup... It's generally panties that are in a bunch.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 06-23-2018, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
LE was required to take all firearms that the person covered under the DV restraining order had access to. You don't have to agree with the law, but pretending that they don't exist and calling people who are simply relaying the reality of the situation names doesn't solve anything.
Well the laws are b.s. to begin with. Why should someone have their guns taken away on a dv allegation? I would argue that even on a dv conviction, guns should not be taken away unless the person was using the guns or threatening to use the guns against his/her spouse.

This is just another rubbish law designed to take away people's freedom.
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Old 06-29-2018, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
Well the laws are b.s. to begin with. Why should someone have their guns taken away on a dv allegation? I would argue that even on a dv conviction, guns should not be taken away unless the person was using the guns or threatening to use the guns against his/her spouse.

This is just another rubbish law designed to take away people's freedom.

DV often escalates from verbal to physical to attacks with weapons that is a fact. While false allegations are often made too, real victims need to be protected, escalation needs to be avoided and I think it is reasonable to confiscate weapons from someone that could escalate DV. (it's too late after the fact) I also believe once exonerated ALL weapons should be restored to the legal owners. Unfortunately the law does not foresee all things that can get mixed up any more than the average Joe does. I wish Ca. gun laws were more like let's say Mo. gun laws, but when it comes to DV those that perpetrate DV bring down the law on themselves and those around them, and false accusers accusations are going to really hurt their target and they couldn't care less about the other innocents that get caught up in it usually. I think those that make false allegations should have the same or worse punishments than violent offenders get. If making a false accusation was treated as just as serious offense it might help a lot!
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Old 07-05-2018, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DangrousDan View Post

DV often escalates from verbal to physical to attacks with weapons that is a fact. While false allegations are often made too, real victims need to be protected, escalation needs to be avoided and I think it is reasonable to confiscate weapons from someone that could escalate DV. (it's too late after the fact) I also believe once exonerated ALL weapons should be restored to the legal owners. Unfortunately the law does not foresee all things that can get mixed up any more than the average Joe does. I wish Ca. gun laws were more like let's say Mo. gun laws, but when it comes to DV those that perpetrate DV bring down the law on themselves and those around them, and false accusers accusations are going to really hurt their target and they couldn't care less about the other innocents that get caught up in it usually. I think those that make false allegations should have the same or worse punishments than violent offenders get. If making a false accusation was treated as just as serious offense it might help a lot!
Your explanation is agreeing to punishment for crimes not committed. Is that where we are today?
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  #114  
Old 07-05-2018, 2:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
Well the laws are b.s. to begin with. Why should someone have their guns taken away on a dv allegation? I would argue that even on a dv conviction, guns should not be taken away unless the person was using the guns or threatening to use the guns against his/her spouse.

This is just another rubbish law designed to take away people's freedom.

Welcome to the real world, argue, whine and complain all you want, it doesn't change the current reality.
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  #115  
Old 07-05-2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Mistakes were made and there's no way for any of us to offer advice that can make the outcome of those mistakes any less unpleasant.
So the conversation moves to WHAT mistakes were made, and how can we avoid those mistakes in the future.

It's not about being an a-hole, it's about helping others avoid the same situation. People learn from mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.
I feel sorry for the OP, it's a bad situation that would not exist outside of California, New York, or Hawaii.
Hopefully, our SCOTUS clears out all of these BS laws and applies 2A equally to the entire country.
Not going to happen this year.
I wasn't speaking about you in particular

I'm saying there's a difference between "you're and idiot" and "You made a mistake"
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  #116  
Old 07-05-2018, 3:40 PM
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thats the point
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  #117  
Old 07-05-2018, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
Well the laws are b.s. to begin with. Why should someone have their guns taken away on a dv allegation? I would argue that even on a dv conviction, guns should not be taken away unless the person was using the guns or threatening to use the guns against his/her spouse.

This is just another rubbish law designed to take away people's freedom.
The world is full of stupid laws.. knowing this and complaining about it doesn't change the world at all.
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  #118  
Old 07-05-2018, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroFox79 View Post
Your fault for letting other people have acess to your safe.
Yup... since your bro had access to the safe the cops were well within the law to remove all firearms he would have access to.. yours included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
Featureless if you get them back.
And stop giving idiots your safe code
You will not get them back since they are now illegal AW's

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Your aware he cannot store in your safe unless he lives there correct?. They were all your guns. Should have been in his safe only accessible by him.
20/20 hindsight. If you stored his guns in YOUR safe, only YOU should have had the combo and he should have had to see you to get them
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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 07-06-2018 at 2:46 PM..
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  #119  
Old 07-06-2018, 8:18 AM
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