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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #41  
Old 05-23-2022, 7:39 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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I have fffg and caps in sales section if anyone needs some.
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2022, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
We all have to learn sometime; nobody is born knowing this stuff.

I'll try to hit all your questions; let me know if I miss something.

Someone with metallic cartridges in the civil war was probably a Union soldier with a brand new Henry rifle (there were other cartridge rifles, too)

Cartridges for revolvers were packed in paper packets, six cartridges and eight caps (from memory). I don't know how they carried the cartridge packets. Walker revolvers were issued in pairs, so you got 12 shots before you needed to reload; they were also carried on the horse's belt, not the human's. Extra nerd fact, most soldiers would have rarely dealt with loose black powder going back to pre-revolution days. They were all paper cartridges.

'61 vs '51.....the opening for the bullets are a little bigger on the later revolvers with the creeping levers. If you are going to shoot a lot of conicals, it might be a consideration. I use round balls, so it's not been an issue for me. The major difference is the appearance. If you like the round barrel and more curvey loading lever, then '61; octagonal barrel, go '51. The best looking revolver of all time is the '62 pocket police (indisputable fact ). It's similar to the '61, but on a pocket size frame (from the 31 cal '49) cut for a rebated 36 cal, fluted cylinder.

Manufacturers; there are currently two, Pietta and Uberti (part of Beretta), both in Italy. There used to be a third, Armi San Marco (ASM) in Spain, but I don't think they make revolvers anymore. Uberti was general little better fit and finish than Pietta, but the current buzz is that Pietta has upped their game and Uberti has slipped a little. Right now, the choices are pretty limited since Italy was severly impacted by the plague. If you can look at them, both manufacturers mark them with the required Italian proof marks on the side, and "for black powder only" on the side on Pietta or under the loading lever for Uberti. Also, they have a maker's mark on them, Pietta is FAP in a diamond, and Uberti is a U in an octagon.
there are so many upgrades that should be done to this gun. my impression is that it is a cheap, rough version of the original that needs a lot of special attention to function safely and optimally.

i'm debating the anti cap jam system and then the 11-degree muzzle crown. seems you can file and smooth the hammer and that will stop jamming. not sure if the muzzle crown will actually do anything. both extras cost $150, bringing the total to $800, which is way more than i anticipated. if i'm going to get the work done i rather get it done to begin with and have it ready rather having to deal with upgrading later......but still not sure about these 2 options.
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  #43  
Old 05-23-2022, 6:08 PM
Elgatodeacero Elgatodeacero is offline
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You don’t need all that, and $800 is way to much to spend on smoothing up a Uberti.

Get a Uberti 1851 from MidwayUSA and send it to Mike Brackett for his Outlaw Mule package ($225).

http://www.goonsgunworks.com/services
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2022, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
You donĀ’t need all that, and $800 is way to much to spend on smoothing up a Uberti.

Get a Uberti 1851 from MidwayUSA and send it to Mike Brackett for his Outlaw Mule package ($225).

http://www.goonsgunworks.com/services
the basic service for the new gun is about $225. you buy the gun and they do the following for $640 total

https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.p...m-black-powder


Hone, and rework all internal parts
Replace springs with high quality U.S. springs (Lee's "Gunslinger Spring Kit")
Rebuild and harden single tooth hand.
Rebuild and harden bolt cam as necessary
Drill frame for Coil type Hand Spring and install.
Correct Bolt engagement and position
Rework sear and hammer for crisp 2 1/2lb. trigger pull
Re-cut forcing cone to 11 degrees
Square and smooth barrel face
Correct Cylinder gap for fouling
Correct timing and advance or delay bolt drop as necessary
Install Slix-Shot Stainless Steel Nipples
Correct Arbor Length in Frame


i was just wondering if i should also have the muzzle crow cut to 11-degrees and have the anti cap jam sytem installed. they are $75 each. i did find a way to file the hammer and smooth it so it stops the jams that occur from sharp corners and burrs. don't know anything about having a muzzle crown cut.......i know you can do it at home but i'm a bit limited on tools and would not want to fruck it up.

so is $640 worth it for all that work?
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  #45  
Old 05-23-2022, 9:12 PM
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Dixie shows Pietta '51 Navy in stock for $315, Uberti '51 out of stock with a price of $375 for a reference on price.

If it were me, I would get the revolver in hand before having anything done. You may find it doesn't need anything. Most of mine have worked well enough straight out of the box. The last one I got, which was a Uberti '51 needed a little deburr on the inside of the frame, but the timing was good, cylinder gap was 0.004" (good), arbor length is good. The only other thing I might do to it in the future is change the nipples, because I only have CCI caps now, and they seem to like Remington #10s.

I can understand the feeling that they are cheap and rough, but that's probably a little harsh. I would say more inexpensive and unrefined. The steel they are made from is leaps and bounds better than the originals, thought. Steel in the mid 1800s was.... not great.

I don't have many cap jams with a standard setup, and I'm not shooting in matches, so I would pass on the modification for that.

I don't see any value in recutting the crown, either.
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  #46  
Old 05-24-2022, 3:07 PM
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I found a place that says they have all models in stock but i need to call. The Uberti is $330 for the '51 and $303 for the '61. Tje '51 you don't need an FFL but you do for the '61. No idea why....??? I want the 51 anyway.
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  #47  
Old 05-24-2022, 3:10 PM
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...a nice leather holster rig can be the same price as the gun. Lol
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  #48  
Old 05-24-2022, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
I found a place that says they have all models in stock but i need to call. The Uberti is $330 for the '51 and $303 for the '61. Tje '51 you don't need an FFL but you do for the '61. No idea why....??? I want the 51 anyway.
That is really odd, no idea why they would want an FFL for a '61. They didn't say they only take Venmo, did they?
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  #49  
Old 05-24-2022, 6:52 PM
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https://thegunshopne.com/?s=uberti+n...t_type=product

here is the product page.
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  #50  
Old 05-25-2022, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
that web site puts my red flag up.

https://www.bbb.org/us/ne/morrill/pr...0714-300280162

There is a gun shop in Morrill named "The Gun Shop", but the ATF shows a premise address on Liberty Oil Rd, out in the farmland north of town.

This is what I would recommend:

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/...+-+Steel+Frame
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  #51  
Old 05-25-2022, 6:04 AM
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If the site is legit (I'm no internet sleuth, so could be fine), looks like this is the owner, Mr McCumbers. It has a phone number (doesn't match the website)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/104225212959640
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  #52  
Old 05-25-2022, 7:23 AM
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Yes. I think so. They replied. All are in stock. Besides the custom place i mentioned, they are the only shop with them in stock. I scoured the internet for hours and i always find what I'm looking for, but it was im pickings. Price is good. Just need to read a few things and watch a few videos about basic revolver gunsmithing and then I'll decide.
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  #53  
Old 05-25-2022, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
Yes. I think so. They replied. All are in stock. Besides the custom place i mentioned, they are the only shop with them in stock. I scoured the internet for hours and i always find what I'm looking for, but it was im pickings. Price is good. Just need to read a few things and watch a few videos about basic revolver gunsmithing and then I'll decide.
Did they say why an FFL for the '61? The site sure looks like a scam. Are you sure they're legit?
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  #54  
Old 05-25-2022, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
that web site puts my red flag up.

https://www.bbb.org/us/ne/morrill/pr...0714-300280162

There is a gun shop in Morrill named "The Gun Shop", but the ATF shows a premise address on Liberty Oil Rd, out in the farmland north of town.

This is what I would recommend:

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/...+-+Steel+Frame
seems that everyone on the internet feels that it's most likely a scam. thanks for bringing that up.

do you need a special guage to adjust the timing of the cylinder? i saw a tool for the nipples but not sure if you really need that? what tools would i actually need to dial it in and then maintain it? aprox cost?
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Last edited by FluorideInMyWater; 05-25-2022 at 6:32 PM..
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  #55  
Old 05-26-2022, 6:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
seems that everyone on the internet feels that it's most likely a scam. thanks for bringing that up.

do you need a special guage to adjust the timing of the cylinder? i saw a tool for the nipples but not sure if you really need that? what tools would i actually need to dial it in and then maintain it? aprox cost?
Tool wise, try to get good fitting, hollow ground screw drivers (not standard household type) will keep you from buggering up the screw slots, a nipple wrench to remove them for cleaning, cleaning kit. I use a separate kit so I don't get the petroleum based products I use on the modern stuff on the black powder stuff.

For tuning and smoothing, I have some diamond hones (like below), small files, wet and dry sand paper in fine grades. You can do a pretty good job without any specific gauges.

https://smile.amazon.com/EZE-LAP-PAK...s%2C170&sr=8-5
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  #56  
Old 05-26-2022, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
Tool wise, try to get good fitting, hollow ground screw drivers (not standard household type) will keep you from buggering up the screw slots, a nipple wrench to remove them for cleaning, cleaning kit. I use a separate kit so I don't get the petroleum based products I use on the modern stuff on the black powder stuff.

For tuning and smoothing, I have some diamond hones (like below), small files, wet and dry sand paper in fine grades. You can do a pretty good job without any specific gauges.

https://smile.amazon.com/EZE-LAP-PAK...s%2C170&sr=8-5
good place to start. i just need the hollow ground screwdrivers and nipple wrench.
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  #57  
Old 06-13-2022, 10:34 AM
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took a few weeks to decided, but i went ahead and got the Long Hunter custom Delux gun. Jim talked me out of getting the muzzle cut and the bore resising. he indicated that this is for people who re-inact the north/south war and want as tight a group as they can out to 50 yards. if you are not doing that then he said there is no point.
It will talk about a week or so so i guess i'll go shopping for a holster black powder supplies etc
does anyone know where to get a traditional looking Colt case that fits the navy, including powder flask, bullets, and other accoutrements? i found a place a month ago that had some blue felt ones for under $50 but no i an't for the life of me, find them again.

i'm pretty stoked now. just needed a little bit of time to make sure i wasn't "compulsive" buying.
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