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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #1  
Old 10-13-2021, 4:15 PM
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Default For anyone in need of a religous exemption response

Feel free to use this as needed.
Covers all known objections.

"Taking this vaccine violates my conscience for at least three reasons: first, the use of aborted fetuses in either the development or production of these vaccines, or both, when my religious beliefs require that I respect all human life, including fetal life, and not knowingly profit from harm to fetal life; second, the invasion of my body with foreign toxins when my religious beliefs require I treat my body as a temple, and not so knowingly desecrate it; and third, the coercion against informed consent of this vaccine when my religious beliefs require all medical treatment be conditioned upon informed consent. This is a matter of life and death, the very purpose for which I live my life, respect for all human beings and all human life in the world, a core matter of right and wrong, and essential to my very being. I cannot violate my conscience on such a core matter of my morals and the beliefs that guide me and govern me, formed by religious beliefs and as instructed by my religious tenets. I have never knowingly taken any vaccine, or any medicine, developed or produced with aborted fetal cells, that invaded my body with foreign toxins, or that were compelled against informed consent. The violation of informed consent is a matter of religious conscience; what the Nazi doctors did is morally wrong, spiritually offensive, and participating or partaking in such invasive, coerced medicine at any time offends the very core of my conscience. I cannot consciously disrespect human life, and the core of what makes us human and the dignity it requires we treat ourselves and our fellow human beings, even if it might medically or financially profit me to do so. Some things are not for sale; my conscience, formed by the core of religious tenets, is one of them."
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Old 10-13-2021, 4:17 PM
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Old 10-13-2021, 4:23 PM
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This is exactly the stance I am taking at work and included scripture references to bolster my argument as well
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Old 10-13-2021, 7:25 PM
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I don't know what your exemption forms look like, but mine had 3 lines to write. I edited mine on the computer to fit more, but you're just going to piss the person off who you're trying to persuade by dumping a giant wall of text on them.

My suggestion is to try to be clear, get to the point, respectful, and brief.
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Old 10-13-2021, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K001 View Post
This is exactly the stance I am taking at work and included scripture references to bolster my argument as well
Cool! What are those scripture references?
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2021, 9:02 PM
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Sadly America stopped believing in God a long time ago...

great reference thank you...
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2021, 12:24 AM
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Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1085 View Post
Feel free to use this as needed. Covers all known objections.


Taking this vaccine violates my conscience for at least three reasons:

First, the use of aborted fetuses in either the development or production of these vaccines, or both, when my religious beliefs require that I respect all human life, including fetal life, and not knowingly profit from harm to fetal life.

Second, the invasion of my body with foreign toxins when my religious beliefs require I treat my body as a temple, and not so knowingly desecrate it.

Third, the coercion against informed consent of this vaccine when my religious beliefs require all medical treatment be conditioned upon informed consent.

This is a matter of life and death, the very purpose for which I live my life, respect for all human beings and all human life in the world, a core matter of right and wrong, and essential to my very being.

I cannot violate my conscience on such a core matter of my morals and the beliefs that guide me and govern me, formed by religious beliefs and as instructed by my religious tenets.

I have never knowingly taken any vaccine, or any medicine, developed or produced with aborted fetal cells, that invaded my body with foreign toxins, or that were compelled against informed consent.

The violation of informed consent is a matter of religious conscience; what the Nazi doctors did is morally wrong, spiritually offensive, and participating or partaking in such invasive, coerced medicine at any time offends the very core of my conscience.

I cannot consciously disrespect human life, and the core of what makes us human and the dignity it requires we treat ourselves and our fellow human beings, even if it might medically or financially profit me to do so. Some things are not for sale; my conscience, formed by the core of religious tenets, is one of them.
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:27 AM
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I dont play with exemptions, I dont feed the beast. They get a big polite F-U from me and some court papers coming in a form of lawsuit, I dont even care about winning the lawsuit, its all about choosing the right moral adventure to be in, I dont feed the propaganda machine, the more you feed it the more power it has, sooner or later , they will ask more of you, perhaps all of you..
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Old 10-14-2021, 6:28 AM
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City of SF deadline was midnight, they hadn’t approved any religious exemptions
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Old 10-14-2021, 7:36 AM
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The religious exemption statement is probably similar to the California good cause CCW statement. The administration already has already decided to give it to you or nor. It doesn’t really matter so much would you say in your statement
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Old 10-14-2021, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgi23 View Post

Sadly America stopped believing in God a long time ago...

great reference thank you...
And that,


is how we got here...
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Old 10-14-2021, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
I don't know what your exemption forms look like, but mine had 3 lines to write. I edited mine on the computer to fit more, but you're just going to piss the person off who you're trying to persuade by dumping a giant wall of text on them.

My suggestion is to try to be clear, get to the point, respectful, and brief.

Care to share? Please, this is possibly going to cost me my livelihood and has been the biggest stress in my life.


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Old 10-14-2021, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K001 View Post
This is exactly the stance I am taking at work and included scripture references to bolster my argument as well
Could you please PM me this scriptural references?

Thank you,
Rich
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Many liberals are lemmings and will follow whomever espouses what they 'feel'.
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Old 10-14-2021, 8:45 AM
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Why does it take so many words to justify your 1A right?
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Old 10-14-2021, 9:38 AM
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Or just say no.
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Old 10-14-2021, 4:05 PM
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I put a lot of time into researching and drafting my exemption request. It was granted, however like someone said above, I think they had already decided they don't want to fire me. Also, my job can continue to be done from home.
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Old 10-14-2021, 4:40 PM
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I think most churches will provide you with a letter if you meet some very basic donation and membership requirements.
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Old 10-14-2021, 7:27 PM
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You don't need to provide a third party document in order to assert a religious exemption. Your belief doesn't even have to agree with that of any religious leader. You merely have to state your deeply held religious belief. This is not legal advice, but this is the gist of what the guidance out there says.

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I think most churches will provide you with a letter if you meet some very basic donation and membership requirements.
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Old 10-15-2021, 4:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHenry2015 View Post
You don't need to provide a third party document in order to assert a religious exemption. Your belief doesn't even have to agree with that of any religious leader. You merely have to state your deeply held religious belief. This is not legal advice, but this is the gist of what the guidance out there says.
I agree wholeheartedly in principle, I just think some might find it easier to work with a carefully worded letter on church letterhead if you know what I mean. I'm starting a new job on Monday, no mandate there yet... but I have my former church pastor buddy in CA e-mailing me a letter today. I'll play that card if I need to, as mentioned before I do not financially need this job and I am willing to be a lab rat on this issue.

FJB, let's test the 1st amendment.
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Old 10-15-2021, 4:19 AM
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I generally would rethink any statement that starts referencing Nazis.
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2021, 11:05 AM
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I get that. I just don't want people to be deterred from trying for a religious exemption simply because they might not have a church official to back them. My take is that bigger companies that have in house lawyers and/or outside counsel know what the law says, and thus you should focus on communicating that you also know the law. A large company is not going to want to go on a fishing expedition in order to attempt to "debunk" your genuine religious belief. It is risky for a company to do that and discouraged by the law. I think if you use the right language, then a large company will know you are serious and know your rights. A good letter puts you in a position to win in court if it ends up there, and big company HR/legal departments are all about minimizing risk to the firm. My two cents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
I agree wholeheartedly in principle, I just think some might find it easier to work with a carefully worded letter on church letterhead if you know what I mean. I'm starting a new job on Monday, no mandate there yet... but I have my former church pastor buddy in CA e-mailing me a letter today. I'll play that card if I need to, as mentioned before I do not financially need this job and I am willing to be a lab rat on this issue.

FJB, let's test the 1st amendment.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2021, 3:34 PM
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no one has ever been granted a hair cut exemption in the US military for being Christian, or even Jewish.

But Sikhs have been granted exemptions even though they of course fully knew what was expected when the joined voluntarily.

Sikh kids have also been allowed to carry (sorta dull) knives in public schools because of "religion" while American kids get cops called regardless of how dull the knife is.

So far AFAIK Christian American religious exemption requests are all being tossed in trash and no questioning allowed.

Not my area of expertise but might have something to do with being a "protected minority group" or not being one. Plus, any main stream American Christian group like any Protestant church or Catholic Church will have some big sell out top leader who will be pro-Vaxx and the company will be able to point to him as YOUR authority, push come to shove.

So I see any such attempt as mainstream honest American Christian claim as losing in two major ways and a "set up to fail".

The idea that Big Pharma and this whole new totally illegal Vaxx Law dictatorship is going to let a bunch of wise-asses defeat the whole program by going "nah-nah, I'm CLAIMING I believe some stuff" isn't realistic.
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Old 10-15-2021, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
So far AFAIK Christian American religious exemption requests are all being tossed in trash and no questioning allowed.
We'll see. Like I said, I am willing to be a crash test dummy on this one.

There is a very longstanding history of Sikh haircut stuff... well documented. Before we go any farther, I totally agree they joined voluntarily knowing the rules so cut that mop, but the courts disagree. AFAIK there is no longstanding hair thing in the Christian religion.

BUT, the fetus research stuff is easily as well documented along with some other points in the objection statement as being clearly anti Christian as far as mainstream Christian teaching goes. With that in mind it might not be so easy to toss in the trash, we'll let lawyers figure that out. I can afford to let them fire me and we can battle this out.

Someone has to.
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Old 10-15-2021, 8:07 PM
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Military accommodations may prove to be difficult to next to impossible. However, the military lost the Anthrax vaccine case. John Doe #1 v. Rumsfeld in 2003
Can't sue till all military procedures are exhausted.
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Old 10-15-2021, 8:20 PM
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The Nazi reference in my original post is a legal reference that would come in play should one end up in court. Nuremberg Code of 1947. We hung Nazis for medical experimentation and lack of informed consent. All countries present agreed to as well as promised that it would never happen again. That is exactly what the powers to be are doing now!


Also, religious accommodation has not lost a court case yet!
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Old 10-15-2021, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
I don't know what your exemption forms look like, but mine had 3 lines to write. I edited mine on the computer to fit more, but you're just going to piss the person off who you're trying to persuade by dumping a giant wall of text on them.

My suggestion is to try to be clear, get to the point, respectful, and brief.
Good suggestions… not sure what everyone has to deal with, but our company is looking specifically for copy/paste flags, so be sure to make your submissions in your own words if necessary.

That was one of the biggest flags, and apparently bottled up the process pretty considerably prior to their deadline.
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Old 10-15-2021, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ibanezfoo View Post
Or just say no.
That's my stance. I just don't want the thing.
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2021, 9:10 PM
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If I recite the pledge of allegiance does it make it any less sincere because other people have said the same words too?

How about The Lord's Prayer?

Also, expect in the very near future jabs that do not use aborted fetal cell lines in manufacture and testing. Broaden your exemption.
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Old 10-16-2021, 3:25 PM
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There is a potential issue with claiming a religious exemption based upon the use of aborted fetuses in the development or production of the available COVID-19 vaccines.

First, many of the common medications people use regularly were developed using these same fetal cell tissue lines that originated from aborted fetuses in the 1960s and 70s

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...cine-exemption

This article mentions that and at least one employer requiring those who use this claim for a religious exemption to also agree to not use any of the 30 common drugs on the list going forward. An employer can also ask about specific medications you have taken in the recent past.

One of those listed drugs is albuterol, the most commonly used drug to stop asthma attacks. Countless numbers of people are alive today because of it. It is very likely that if you are an asthmatic, you have a rescue inhaler and it contains albuterol. I do believe there is an alternative that is as effective. For me, it made a huge difference in my life when it became available in the US in 1982. Before that, the available medications were not very effective or had major side effects that were just as bad as the asthma.

Here is a link to another article: https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/post/...cal-industries

This is a short article on the use of fetal cell lines in the cosmetic, food, and medical industries.

Many of the every day products you use at home were developed or tested using these same fetal cell lines.

A biotech company used the fetal cell line HEK-293 to develop new flavor additives used in the food industry. You would never know because they are listed as artificial flavors on the ingredients list.

I mention the HEK-293 fetal cell line, which are embryonic kidney cells taken from an aborted female fetus in 1973, because Ivermectin was developed and tested using this same cell line. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217454/ It is a scientific article that discusses how Ivermectin acts but the cell line used for the research was the HEK-293 line.

The next link provides a list of vaccines that were developed and tested using fetal cell lines as well as alternatives that are available for some.

https://columbuscatholic.org/documen...ternatives.pdf


Finally, several mainstream religious organizations have made statements promoting vaccination in spite of the use of fetal cell tissues derived from aborted fetuses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8205255/

I am not saying that this makes a religious claim void. The religious exemption does not require one to show an association with a particular religious group. But, if you are Catholic for example, and have something written on your church letterhead, it might undermine your claim for a religious exemption.

Remember, you have one shot at this. If it is denied and you decide to contest it through any legal means, your original claim for the exemption will be scrutinized and the employer could easily win by demonstrating that you do not have a sincerely held belief just because you are a Catholic. The discovery process can be tough, since it is civil matter, you do not have the right against self-incrimination so you have to answer all questions truthfully. This could include what medications you are currently taking or have taken recently. It might include what medical procedures have you undergone recently.

I do believe some companies just do not want to deal with the potential fighting a lawsuit, and will accept a reasonably thought out religious exemption claim. They just want something to show OSHA or other government regulation agency that is enforcing any mandates.

Others, especially with a significant legal department, may already have done their homework and have no problem in denying claims and letting it go to the next step. Some employees will cave and get the vaccine. Some will just quit or accept being fired. Others will just look for another job.

Usually the next step is an arbitration process and that will take a lot of time because the religious exemption case law is not as well established as it is for the ADA. There is a lot of wiggle room for both the employer and the employee.

A medical exemption under the ADA does allow the employer to place the employee on unpaid leave until the time the employee can meet the requirement or the health concern is no longer an issue. So if a vaccine is required due to a pandemic and a person has a medical condition that prevents them from getting the vaccine, but works in health care the worker can be placed on unpaid leave due to the worker being at a higher risk of becoming infected with the disease and transmitting to other patients in the hospital. The alternative is to make an accommodation to greatly reduce the risk of infection to the worker and if so infected, to transmit the disease to other patients. That can be simply to wear a mask, gloves, and gown and change them every time the worker enters the room of a new patient.


I will say that this debate of the use of cell lines from aborted fetuses to develop the COVID vaccines has been good. It has brought attention to widespread use of these cell lines to develop and test many products we use daily.

I find it ironic that the cosmetic industry has moved away from animal testing to human tissue testing so they can advertise no animals were harmed testing these products. As a teacher, I have seen first hand how many people treat their pets much better than their children. As a parent, the moment I learned my wife was pregnant, she was carrying our child. She felt the same. It changed her mind on abortion. She said the moment she learned she was pregnant, she knew it was a child and it was her responsibility to do everything possible to keep him safe (we have a son who is now 27).

People will throw away their children but complain bitterly about the treatment of animals that often are treated better than children are today.

What is worse, this whole controversy can be avoided. The same fetal tissues are available from fetuses that have been miscarried. It would be the same as donating organs from someone who has died.

The problem is convenience. It is much easier to go to an abortion clinic and get the consent of a woman who is getting an abortion. She does not what the child so she can feel less guilty if she donates it to science.

For a woman who had had a miscarriage, it is a very emotionally traumatic time and no one wants to deal with getting consent. It makes it messy for the research community. They like things to be clinical and without emotion, unless of course it is some great new treatment for cancer. BTW, most of the recent cancer treatments have been developed using these fetal cell lines.

The use of monoclonal antibodies that some here have advocated for, often are grown on the same fetal tissue lines.

Personally, I would use the body as a temple and coehersion against informed consent. If I were requesting a religious exemption and was making it the hill I would die on, I would also pay for the advice of an attorney who at least practices in the area of law concerning the ADA. The process for both is very similar. The cost of 30 minute consult may be worth the headaches it can save if you decide to exercise your legal options if the exemption is denied by your employer.

I have learned from experience, it is best to think ahead about what can happen if things do not go as you wish. Many problems can be avoided if you take the right steps to start with.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2021, 9:48 AM
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Informed Consent.

Inconsistent info and VAERS data clearly prevent ones ability to be informed.

I do not consent.

Nuremberg Codes says those who force mandates swing by the neck until dead.

No need to drag religion into this question. WWII was supposed to resolve this and many other issues.
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Old 10-17-2021, 9:50 AM
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tagged
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Old 10-17-2021, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Epaphroditus View Post
Informed Consent.

Inconsistent info and VAERS data clearly prevent ones ability to be informed.

I do not consent.

Nuremberg Codes says those who force mandates swing by the neck until dead.

No need to drag religion into this question. WWII was supposed to resolve this and many other issues.
The above statement is basically correct.
Unfortunately, Religious grounds is the only exemption that is winning in the courts for now.
Formal religion isn't needed to get an accommodation. Ones personal spiritual belief is enough. That exemption was used by Obama's EEOC for other vaccines.
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  #33  
Old 10-17-2021, 5:58 PM
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Comply or die, the jab isn't safe,I don't think so in theory.
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  #34  
Old 10-17-2021, 9:09 PM
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I believe I'm informed and I do not consent. Anyone wants to mandate needs to provide a written statement that they do not accept the need of my informed consent and are inisting on coerced medical procedure against my wishes.

Make them own the crime against himanity.
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Old 10-21-2021, 7:45 AM
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Just received my accommodation approval letter. What a weight off me. I’ve lost 10 lbs over the past two weeks stressing over this. Only been sleeping about 3 hours a night.

If anyone is curious or if this may help. I wasn’t comfortable just taking a letter from online and using that. I’ve heard (not sure if true) that some companies were looking online and saying if you used a mass produced letter it didn’t show as sincere beliefs. Totally can’t co firm that , but didn’t want to risk it.

My work asked for a letter from my church. I called the local church I go to but not regularly. Talked to the pastor and they ended up saying they werent providing letters because they feel it’s a personal matter.

So, with that I wrote my own. It was short and I’m no award winning writer. I stated my church wasn’t providing letters because it’s personal and i agreed with that. I gave a brief explanation with my sincere beliefs. I quoted 2 verses from the Bible.

I hope everyone else has no issues and gets their accommodation approvals,


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Old 10-21-2021, 7:53 AM
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Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
I don't know what your exemption forms look like, but mine had 3 lines to write.
Same here. I just wrote down something like "Pro-life with a strong religious objection to fetal tissue used for development".

Worked for me, no followup or questions asked.
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Old 10-21-2021, 7:55 AM
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....I’ve heard (not sure if true) that some companies were looking online and saying if you used a mass produced letter it didn’t show as sincere beliefs. Totally can’t co firm that , but didn’t want to risk it.
I know for a fact that Kaiser was denying for this very reason.... I was sitting next to a Kaiser employee when he opened the email, and uttered a few choice expletives.
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Last edited by bigbossman; 10-21-2021 at 8:54 AM..
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Old 10-21-2021, 8:38 AM
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I know for a fact that Kaiser was denying for this very reason.... I was sitting next to a Kaiser employee when he open the email, and uttered a few choice expletives.

Thanks for confirming my fear. This is very important for people to know.


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Old 10-21-2021, 10:38 AM
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There is a potential issue with claiming a religious exemption based upon the use of aborted fetuses in the development or production of the available COVID-19 vaccines.

First, many of the common medications people use regularly were developed using these same fetal cell tissue lines that originated from aborted fetuses in the 1960s and 70s

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...cine-exemption

This article mentions that and at least one employer requiring those who use this claim for a religious exemption to also agree to not use any of the 30 common drugs on the list going forward. An employer can also ask about specific medications you have taken in the recent past.

One of those listed drugs is albuterol, the most commonly used drug to stop asthma attacks. Countless numbers of people are alive today because of it. It is very likely that if you are an asthmatic, you have a rescue inhaler and it contains albuterol. I do believe there is an alternative that is as effective. For me, it made a huge difference in my life when it became available in the US in 1982. Before that, the available medications were not very effective or had major side effects that were just as bad as the asthma.

Here is a link to another article: https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/post/...cal-industries

This is a short article on the use of fetal cell lines in the cosmetic, food, and medical industries.

Many of the every day products you use at home were developed or tested using these same fetal cell lines.

A biotech company used the fetal cell line HEK-293 to develop new flavor additives used in the food industry. You would never know because they are listed as artificial flavors on the ingredients list.

I mention the HEK-293 fetal cell line, which are embryonic kidney cells taken from an aborted female fetus in 1973, because Ivermectin was developed and tested using this same cell line. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217454/ It is a scientific article that discusses how Ivermectin acts but the cell line used for the research was the HEK-293 line.

The next link provides a list of vaccines that were developed and tested using fetal cell lines as well as alternatives that are available for some.

https://columbuscatholic.org/documen...ternatives.pdf


Finally, several mainstream religious organizations have made statements promoting vaccination in spite of the use of fetal cell tissues derived from aborted fetuses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8205255/

I am not saying that this makes a religious claim void. The religious exemption does not require one to show an association with a particular religious group. But, if you are Catholic for example, and have something written on your church letterhead, it might undermine your claim for a religious exemption.

Remember, you have one shot at this. If it is denied and you decide to contest it through any legal means, your original claim for the exemption will be scrutinized and the employer could easily win by demonstrating that you do not have a sincerely held belief just because you are a Catholic. The discovery process can be tough, since it is civil matter, you do not have the right against self-incrimination so you have to answer all questions truthfully. This could include what medications you are currently taking or have taken recently. It might include what medical procedures have you undergone recently.

I do believe some companies just do not want to deal with the potential fighting a lawsuit, and will accept a reasonably thought out religious exemption claim. They just want something to show OSHA or other government regulation agency that is enforcing any mandates.

Others, especially with a significant legal department, may already have done their homework and have no problem in denying claims and letting it go to the next step. Some employees will cave and get the vaccine. Some will just quit or accept being fired. Others will just look for another job.

Usually the next step is an arbitration process and that will take a lot of time because the religious exemption case law is not as well established as it is for the ADA. There is a lot of wiggle room for both the employer and the employee.

A medical exemption under the ADA does allow the employer to place the employee on unpaid leave until the time the employee can meet the requirement or the health concern is no longer an issue. So if a vaccine is required due to a pandemic and a person has a medical condition that prevents them from getting the vaccine, but works in health care the worker can be placed on unpaid leave due to the worker being at a higher risk of becoming infected with the disease and transmitting to other patients in the hospital. The alternative is to make an accommodation to greatly reduce the risk of infection to the worker and if so infected, to transmit the disease to other patients. That can be simply to wear a mask, gloves, and gown and change them every time the worker enters the room of a new patient.


I will say that this debate of the use of cell lines from aborted fetuses to develop the COVID vaccines has been good. It has brought attention to widespread use of these cell lines to develop and test many products we use daily.

I find it ironic that the cosmetic industry has moved away from animal testing to human tissue testing so they can advertise no animals were harmed testing these products. As a teacher, I have seen first hand how many people treat their pets much better than their children. As a parent, the moment I learned my wife was pregnant, she was carrying our child. She felt the same. It changed her mind on abortion. She said the moment she learned she was pregnant, she knew it was a child and it was her responsibility to do everything possible to keep him safe (we have a son who is now 27).

People will throw away their children but complain bitterly about the treatment of animals that often are treated better than children are today.

What is worse, this whole controversy can be avoided. The same fetal tissues are available from fetuses that have been miscarried. It would be the same as donating organs from someone who has died.

The problem is convenience. It is much easier to go to an abortion clinic and get the consent of a woman who is getting an abortion. She does not what the child so she can feel less guilty if she donates it to science.

For a woman who had had a miscarriage, it is a very emotionally traumatic time and no one wants to deal with getting consent. It makes it messy for the research community. They like things to be clinical and without emotion, unless of course it is some great new treatment for cancer. BTW, most of the recent cancer treatments have been developed using these fetal cell lines.

The use of monoclonal antibodies that some here have advocated for, often are grown on the same fetal tissue lines.

Personally, I would use the body as a temple and coehersion against informed consent. If I were requesting a religious exemption and was making it the hill I would die on, I would also pay for the advice of an attorney who at least practices in the area of law concerning the ADA. The process for both is very similar. The cost of 30 minute consult may be worth the headaches it can save if you decide to exercise your legal options if the exemption is denied by your employer.

I have learned from experience, it is best to think ahead about what can happen if things do not go as you wish. Many problems can be avoided if you take the right steps to start with.
That is some solid insight. Thanks
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:48 AM
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Thanks for confirming my fear. This is very important for people to know.


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For companies like Kaiser, it's all about control. They have to rule with an iron fist. For companies such as one I work for, it's more about just trying to get along and navigate through these times.

Kaiser is giving people a hard time, and scrutinizing every word. In contrast, all I had to do was ask with no real details given.
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