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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 77 8.11%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 641 67.54%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 21 2.21%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.74%
They will go out of business this year! 22 2.32%
Don't want anything to do with them! 143 15.07%
Voters: 949. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11201  
Old 09-16-2019, 2:30 PM
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Apologies if this is the wrong thread to ask, but I'm curious about the Diamond Membership. Someone I know has a large number of them, and I was offered one. To be blunt, it seems too good to be true.

My understanding is, this would enable me to take classes at Front Sight, with my costs being travel expenses and ammunition. So I'm trying to figure out what it would really cost, out-of-pocket, to go up there from SoCal and take a class using this membership. I would probably take something for pistol shooting.

I'm also curious about what I can do, in advance, to better prepare (if anything). I'm 50-ish, have been shooting since I was small, but not a lot of formal training. I can do a five-point presentation, but it's not bright and shining, for example.
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  #11202  
Old 09-16-2019, 4:10 PM
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Plus the $50 a year background check. FS has a online class for a $1 that should get you up to speed.
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  #11203  
Old 09-16-2019, 6:22 PM
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Your room rate at best western with Front sight pricing is $89 a night with a very good breakfast. Other places can be had or you can dry camp. Take your lunch or order one in as you donít have enough time to leave the site.
Buy your ammo through ammo supply warehouse along with mags and have them delivered at no cost to best western.
Read the FAQ on the site and run quality equipment that they recommend. To prepare just go with a open mind to try something new.
As for too good to be true, they are still making money. You will receive very good instruction. If you only go once it is more than worth it. Just donít waste your time on a two day class as it really starts to come together in day three and four. Otherwise open mind, donít fight their system, and most importantly have fun.
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  #11204  
Old 09-16-2019, 7:12 PM
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Ammo Supply Warehouse will ship to your home in CA.
If you are a brave person Saddle West Casino has a Front Sight Special. $49 with a buffet breakfast. It is pretty old and run down. They have $10 lunches available or $12 at Front Sight. I have also rented an Air BNB when I went with a large group together.
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  #11205  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:24 PM
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I appreciate the responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Your room rate at best western with Front sight pricing is $89 a night with a very good breakfast. Other places can be had or you can dry camp. Take your lunch or order one in as you donít have enough time to leave the site.
Buy your ammo through ammo supply warehouse along with mags and have them delivered at no cost to best western.
Read the FAQ on the site and run quality equipment that they recommend. To prepare just go with a open mind to try something new.
As for too good to be true, they are still making money. You will receive very good instruction. If you only go once it is more than worth it. Just donít waste your time on a two day class as it really starts to come together in day three and four. Otherwise open mind, donít fight their system, and most importantly have fun.
I have been looking at the FAQ, and I found the $1 video which currently does not work.

Regarding four-day classes, I need to schedule these when my work schedule permits. How far in advance does a class-- say, four-day defensive handgun-- need to be booked?

The FAQ is pretty extensive, and will take time to read and digest, but I was wondering if they have a high season and a low season? In other words, do folks tend to avoid the place in the summer?

Their Web site says that these Diamond Memberships were sold out at $15K/each, so I still can't understand how they make money if I pay a very small fraction of that as a transfer fee to get one. Maybe like a gym? They are counting on me not making the drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
Ammo Supply Warehouse will ship to your home in CA.
If you are a brave person Saddle West Casino has a Front Sight Special. $49 with a buffet breakfast. It is pretty old and run down. They have $10 lunches available or $12 at Front Sight. I have also rented an Air BNB when I went with a large group together.
I doubt that Ammo Supply Warehouse will ship to me in CA now. But can't one simply pick up what they need in town?

Thanks again for the replies. My local CCW training outfit runs field trips to FS, and they wouldn't bother if it wasn't legit.
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  #11206  
Old 09-16-2019, 9:43 PM
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Might be worth a call to make sure. 775-513-1058
https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/...e=shippinginfo

You need to make an appointment to pick up. It's out of a house. I am usually coming in too late and they don't open early enough before classes start. They have helped my out after class though, when I needed a different shotgun gun shell.
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  #11207  
Old 09-17-2019, 5:10 AM
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I’ve had Ammo Supply Warehouse drop mine off at the Holiday Inn and it’s been waiting for me when I checked in.
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  #11208  
Old 09-17-2019, 7:44 AM
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You need to book classes at least 2 weeks out. As far as down times summer is down due to heat and it gets REAL cold in the winter.
Mike at Ammo Supply is a solid guy. He can shop to CA but then you have to go through background checks.

As far as Front Sight is concerned you will get quite a few emails from them. Their online presence does not look anything like the school operates in reality. Staff are extremely professional and it is a well run machine. You have to keep in mind that during peak season they are running 1000 students a day on any of 50 ranges.
So rather than being skeptical I would suggest just going. Have an open mind, bring good equipment, and be prepared to learn. If all you do is just go once it will be more than worth it.
The basic class will have you drawing from concealment. The class is basic but you have to pass 90% on the test under time and perform malfunction drills. Classes after that get more advanced.
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  #11209  
Old 09-17-2019, 8:13 AM
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Best experience you will have going no matter what your age. Ammo warehouse is a good place for ammo. Our group uses LAX and shipped right to the Winery which is a perfect setup for us. The FS video is worth the buck to rent and DIAMOND level is a sweet spot to be. Good shooting!
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  #11210  
Old 09-17-2019, 8:23 AM
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I was over at FS for the first time as a non-student on Sunday. We needed to get hearing tested and our ears molded for Sport Ears. The dog is still too sick to leave home alone for too long. It felt strange being there and not have that class excitement in your gut.

Good news: Weather was actually very good, low 90’s but with the dry air and breeze, it was pleasant. Only 89 students for the entire school that day according to Pro Shop gals. They’re waiting to re-stock the Pro Shop any day now. Umm, yeah.

Bad news: the food trailer is not open yet waiting for permits.

Oops: Forgot to unload the gun entering the property. No, I didn’t shoot through the gas tank like they said would happen LOL


.
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  #11211  
Old 09-17-2019, 7:59 PM
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Hi Guys... Just sharing some summer memories...

For those that know, last December was a Front Sight vacation for the entire family - my wife and I took the 4DDHG, and my two kids (8 and 11) were in the 4-day Youth and Safety class.

During the school break, I took it upon myself to start my eldest with firearms, pistols at least. We went through the Safety Rules, safe gun handling (muzzle/trigger discipline, chamber/magazine check), marksmanship fundamentals (sight picture/alignment, trigger control), basic manipulations (drawing, holstering, slide lock reload), etc. It definitely was a fun-filled and educational summer...

A couple of weeks before the school started, got him a Glock .22LR conversion kit, his own eyes and ears and headed to FT3 Tactical for his first live fire...




Right now, his 5-step draw to 5-yards unconcealed is about 1.6-sec, and his reload is 2.7-sec. Can't wait until he gets better with the .22LR then transitions to the 9mm so I can bring him to the Front Sight shooting classes!


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  #11212  
Old 09-18-2019, 2:39 AM
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Wow! Neat recap with a video. One happy kid - my first was a 22 Flobert rifle - long time ago in NYC even rode the city bus with it - not today.
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  #11213  
Old 09-18-2019, 4:54 PM
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I have heard they allow 22LR for those that need it. I don't think the test will count for your G or DG. Not 100% sure though. Anyone else?
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  #11214  
Old 09-18-2019, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1834 View Post
Wow! Neat recap with a video. One happy kid - my first was a 22 Flobert rifle - long time ago in NYC even rode the city bus with it - not today.
Thank you Sir...!!!




UPDATE: .22LR is not allowed as per this link: https://www.frontsight.com/firearms-...g/handguns.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
I have heard they allow 22LR for those that need it. I don't think the test will count for your G or DG. Not 100% sure though. Anyone else?
I am not sure whether it's allowed or not. However, you'd be missing out a lot with .22LR...
  1. Dry practice drills - you'd just ruin the gun
  2. Gun handling/manipulations and malfunctions



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  #11215  
Old 09-18-2019, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Thank you Sir...!!!


UPDATE: .22LR is not allowed as per this link: https://www.frontsight.com/firearms-...g/handguns.asp


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That is just for pocket guns. I have seen .22 used in class with larger guns. Just can't set up for a type 3 or qualify for a shiny sticker.
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  #11216  
Old 09-18-2019, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
That is just for pocket guns. I have seen .22 used in class with larger guns. Just can't set up for a type 3 or qualify for a shiny sticker.
But wouldn't the dry practice drills ruin the gun, ie., dry fire is not recommended for rimfires?


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  #11217  
Old 09-18-2019, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
But wouldn't the dry practice drills ruin the gun, ie., dry fire is not recommended for rimfires?
It depends on the gun:

https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...-rimfire-guns/
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  #11218  
Old 09-18-2019, 9:08 PM
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I have seen rounds on the ground before and asked the instructor about it, because I thought they weren't allowed. That's when he told me it was possible. I bought a conversion kit for a Glock just so my daughter might try it.
Advantage Arms machine a small relief at the top of the chamber to help eliminate this problem
http://advantagearms.hostasaurus.com...antageRing.jpg

I'm sure it's not recommended for the firearm, but I would think the firing pin is taking the brunt of damage. How expensive could that be to replace?

Last edited by TeamAllen; 09-18-2019 at 9:15 PM..
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  #11219  
Old 09-18-2019, 9:29 PM
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Classes around Easter fill up fast. My guess is many holidays fill up

With VrBO and other rental options you have more choices but I had a difficult time finding rooms on one trip as I waited too long to book.

The memberships should be about $100 and are a no brainer. Lots of good training for the $50 annual fee when you train.
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  #11220  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Interesting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
Advantage Arms machine a small relief at the top of the chamber to help eliminate this problem
http://advantagearms.hostasaurus.com...antageRing.jpg

I'm sure it's not recommended for the firearm, but I would think the firing pin is taking the brunt of damage. How expensive could that be to replace?
I have the same kit. Let me reach out to AA and check with them. If it is possible, then I can have my 11-year old take the 4DDHG much earlier than I anticipated (he's a Diamond member, btw).


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  #11221  
Old 09-19-2019, 6:02 AM
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Rodralig
I have a 12 yo son that I am putting through a class in two months. Front sight is not crazy about the 22 but the will allow it for circumstances such as a small shooter and such. No chance at a shiney sticker but that is not what he is going for. In fact I wonít even wear a conceal garment. Havenít decided on what 22 he will use or if I will pick up an AA kit for a glock. But my plan is to have him shoot 22 and get used to using that rather than something that may cause him to develop bad habits right out of the gate.
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  #11222  
Old 09-19-2019, 6:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Rodralig
I have a 12 yo son that I am putting through a class in two months. Front sight is not crazy about the 22 but the will allow it for circumstances such as a small shooter and such. No chance at a shiney sticker but that is not what he is going for. In fact I wonít even wear a conceal garment. Havenít decided on what 22 he will use or if I will pick up an AA kit for a glock. But my plan is to have him shoot 22 and get used to using that rather than something that may cause him to develop bad habits right out of the gate.
That sounds good... Would appreciate if you could provide an after action report. I might be able to get my kid to a 4DDHG (or a 2DDHG, considering it might be too long for him) during the winter break from the 20th of Dec until the 12th of Jan. Hoping that there are no special circumstances at work that I can't take the week off...

Absolutely agree with you that there is a high chance he may develop bad habits due to recoil, hence, the same intent - stick with the .22LR. At the meantime, am drilling him with the manipulations at home (safety, draw, holster, reload).

And as mentioned above, I will reach out to Advantage Arms and ask them if their kit would allow dry fire. Still wary about that...

Cheers,

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  #11223  
Old 09-19-2019, 6:54 AM
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My wife used a 22 a couple of times, instructors thought it was great, just did dry practice with a dead trigger, yes no shiny sticker.
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  #11224  
Old 09-19-2019, 9:06 AM
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A 10-12 year old should be able to handle and fire a 9mm Glock without any difficulty. My two boys trained at Frontsight with Glock 19's when they were that age.

They just need to be taught proper TECHNIQUE. That takes care of all of your gun handling issues, including recoil control.
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  #11225  
Old 09-19-2019, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post
A 10-12 year old should be able to handle and fire a 9mm Glock without any difficulty. My two boys trained at Frontsight with Glock 19's when they were that age.

They just need to be taught proper TECHNIQUE. That takes care of all of your gun handling issues, including recoil control.
I agree 100% My grandson could pass the test cold with any compact through full-size 9mm I handed him at age 12. I started him shooting with a 9mm somewhere in his 11th year when he expressed an interest in handguns.

Now at almost 16, I'm pretty sure he could DG the Advanced Handgun test without too much effort. I'm a horrible grandfather, I still haven't been able to get him out to Front Sight...

Recently at an informal club practical shooting match he placed 1st above everyone but the most seasoned shooters...something like 4th overall of 18-20 shooters.
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  #11226  
Old 09-27-2019, 8:21 AM
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Repost from another page:

Friday, September 27, 2019 marks a significant change at the Pro Shop at Front Sight.

From today forward all items that used to be available with your credits can no longer be purchased that way. You use a combination of credits and cash now.

Targets are $34.99 as before. Now you pay $18 cash and $16.99 in credits. Basically you pay retail and give them back some credits for each item.

Bill Cookson says this will allow them to replenish the shelves.

Iím not complaining but want people to be aware of the change.

If the fun gun shoot has changed I will post that too.
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  #11227  
Old 09-27-2019, 8:51 AM
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Thanks for report. The change doesn’t surprise me.
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  #11228  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:07 PM
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Default Wine anyone??

So much for the sole focus being self defense. I guess it is now, whatever we can do to make money to "finish" the resort. From today's email...

If you enjoy a great glass of wine, appreciate wines from the Napa Sonoma Valley, and want to serve a wine from a wine maker who is a patriot just like you, then the Front Sight Wine Club is calling your name!

Front Sight has formed a wine club just for you and your fellow members who will not only enjoy the great Napa Sonoma Valley wine, olive oil and vinegars you purchase from our wine club, but will also enjoy even more the discussions that result when serving these uniquely labeled wines to your friends and family.

A significant portion of the proceeds of the wine, olive oil and vinegar sales go directly to Front Sight and will support all of our activities.
Purchase today for immediate shipment to your door at www.frontsight.com/wineclub

If you go to the Lodge Winery website, the prices are the same as the "wine club".
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  #11229  
Old 09-28-2019, 8:11 AM
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Question regarding the HCMP ambi drill. When I took the class (private), the instructor had me do the finger straight, look/move for the emergency reload. There are a couple FS videos of the drill on youtube where the students do not look and move. What is required for the emergency reload part of the ambi drill?
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  #11230  
Old 09-28-2019, 1:52 PM
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^^ Iíve done HCMP a dozen times or so. I remember it being mandatory to move during the emergency reload. I do not think a ďlookĒ is required.
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  #11231  
Old 09-28-2019, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP View Post
Repost from another page:

Friday, September 27, 2019 marks a significant change at the Pro Shop at Front Sight.

From today forward all items that used to be available with your credits can no longer be purchased that way. You use a combination of credits and cash now.

Targets are $34.99 as before. Now you pay $18 cash and $16.99 in credits. Basically you pay retail and give them back some credits for each item.

Bill Cookson says this will allow them to replenish the shelves.

I’m not complaining but want people to be aware of the change.

If the fun gun shoot has changed I will post that too.
I took 2-day Handgun Skill Builder Private Training Sat/Sun 21-22 September (-19, Graduate, missed DG by 6 points). Will try again next month.

Bought a dozen-or-so rolls of targets while I was there. Thinking now I should have either bought a few dozen rolls or just cleaned it out. Targets were about the only thing I was using the credits. That and the occasional dry-fire manual.

Should have got a set or two of the manuals for family members while could still use credits only.

This was my first Private Training. Enjoyed it very much. First day was pretty intense as compared to taking the class with others as the instructor can pay full attention and catches everything. Which was good because I needed the corrections. Second day was better and more fun as after sleeping on it the instruction from the previous day sank in and I was doing much better on day two.

Last edited by GotSeoul; 09-28-2019 at 5:58 PM..
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  #11232  
Old 09-28-2019, 7:34 PM
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Picked up an advantage arms .22 conversion for my glock 17 for my son to run in a 4DDHG in November. Took my son out shooting and got him set up with all the gear and ran him through about 400 rounds with it today. It ran like a top and will do him well in the coming class. Looking forward to it. Figure on day three Iíll change it over to 9mm to see how he does.
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  #11233  
Old 09-28-2019, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Picked up an advantage arms .22 conversion for my glock 17 for my son to run in a 4DDHG in November. Took my son out shooting and got him set up with all the gear and ran him through about 400 rounds with it today. It ran like a top and will do him well in the coming class. Looking forward to it. Figure on day three Iíll change it over to 9mm to see how he does.
what kind/brand of ammo did you use?
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  #11234  
Old 09-28-2019, 9:09 PM
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I ran Winchester M22 and Remington thunderbolt. The only failure was induced by pushing up on the slide release. Not the ammo fault just training on proper grip.
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  #11235  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelciocc View Post
^^ Iíve done HCMP a dozen times or so. I remember it being mandatory to move during the emergency reload. I do not think a ďlookĒ is required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nszzya View Post
Question regarding the HCMP ambi drill. When I took the class (private), the instructor had me do the finger straight, look/move for the emergency reload. There are a couple FS videos of the drill on youtube where the students do not look and move. What is required for the emergency reload part of the ambi drill?
From the official FS HCM rules regarding the Ambi drill:

"Failure to clear the Emergency Reload with proper technique (finger straight, look/move, index a new magazine, drop the empty, insert the new magazine, run the slide) will result in a procedural penalty."

In real time, the look is done during the move. It does not have to be a "stop and over exaggerated look", but it has to be a perfect emergency reload by the book.

The is no cutting corners on the HCM test. Six seconds is plenty of time to do the Ambi drill, the key is good TECHNIQUE.
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  #11236  
Old 09-29-2019, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Picked up an advantage arms .22 conversion for my glock 17 for my son to run in a 4DDHG in November. Took my son out shooting and got him set up with all the gear and ran him through about 400 rounds with it today. It ran like a top and will do him well in the coming class. Looking forward to it. Figure on day three Iíll change it over to 9mm to see how he does.
Looking forward to the after action report.

Thank you in advanced!!!

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  #11237  
Old 09-30-2019, 8:47 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post
From the official FS HCM rules regarding the Ambi drill:

"Failure to clear the Emergency Reload with proper technique (finger straight, look/move, index a new magazine, drop the empty, insert the new magazine, run the slide) will result in a procedural penalty."

In real time, the look is done during the move. It does not have to be a "stop and over exaggerated look", but it has to be a perfect emergency reload by the book.

The is no cutting corners on the HCM test. Six seconds is plenty of time to do the Ambi drill, the key is good TECHNIQUE.
I agree that the look-n-move needs to happen; but for me the Ambi Drill is the absolute hardest of them all. Its extremely rare for me to shoot it -0. -8 or 9 wouldn't be uncommon for me.

My practice regimen has been no-existent for nearly a year now...I'm not sure when I'll be able to pick it up again...
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  #11238  
Old 09-30-2019, 12:19 PM
nszzya nszzya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post
In real time, the look is done during the move. It does not have to be a "stop and over exaggerated look", but it has to be a perfect emergency reload by the book.

The is no cutting corners on the HCM test. Six seconds is plenty of time to do the Ambi drill, the key is good TECHNIQUE.
Thanks. Very helpful.
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  #11239  
Old 10-01-2019, 3:05 AM
Jerry1834 Jerry1834 is offline
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Points and cash at the pro shop - now that really sucks - the Dr has the best marketing system I've ever seem......

Anyway will be out there in two weeks - lots of fun!!!

Anyone recommend the Salads for Lunch????? Need to order something or make my own....Thanks
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  #11240  
Old 10-01-2019, 7:55 PM
sactoman sactoman is offline
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Anyone take the new 4 day rifle marksmanship class? I'm planning on taking it and I'm looking for some tips. Considering running my tikka t3 30-06. But 260 rounds over four days in a light rifle might be tough.
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