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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-28-2019, 3:29 PM
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Default Elk Hunt - 6.5 creedmoor | which rifle? Steyr or Henry

I got a tag this year to hunt elk in northern AZ, now it's time to choose my rifle and get rounds downrange.

I'm on the fence between the Steyr Scout 19" or the Henry Long Ranger lever action 22" barrel


I know there is a HUGE price difference and that's ok. I'm more interested in why one over the other.

I have not had a chance to check the action on the henry, the steyr however is butter smooth and both are feather light. Stery is 6lbs 13oz, the henry is 7lbs.
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Old 07-28-2019, 3:46 PM
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Many Many many many many many many better options in both cartridge and weapon. Henry makes a 6.5CR lever gun ?? Scope ?
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Old 07-28-2019, 3:48 PM
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Not necessarily what you want to hear but IMHO a 6.5 Creedmoor round is too light for elk unless they're very small. You want at least a 30 caliber round, preferably a .30-06 or a .300.

You might be able to kill an elk with one shot using a Creedmoor round, but your placement will have to be perfect and you'll have to be relatively close for the bullet to have enough energy at impact.
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Old 07-28-2019, 3:50 PM
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Oh boy....

I use 06 in mod 70 win
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Old 07-28-2019, 4:02 PM
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What range do you think you will be shooting? At least you can shoot lead.
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Old 07-28-2019, 4:18 PM
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Elk.
6.5 C
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo
For the love of ...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO

Why?
Why?
WHY?
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Old 07-28-2019, 4:28 PM
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Tikka in 7MM' 30-06 or 300WM.
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Old 07-28-2019, 4:38 PM
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Ruger American, Rem 700, Browning, Tikka, Savage, Weatherby, Winchester 70 etc - in 7MM, 30-06, 300WM or bigger
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Old 07-28-2019, 4:45 PM
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So you want an iron sight 65cm for hunting?
Hows the Henry trigger?
There might be an m70 safari or Alaskan now in 65.
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Old 07-28-2019, 5:01 PM
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If you must use 6.5 (which some say bests .308 past 700 yards in long-range shooting), then look to Barnes' pure copper solid spitzers.

And while the Henry is a unique lever rifle, the Steyr Scout will be the more-accurate, lighter-weight, will be "handier" and much more friendly to handle and carry for hours at a time.

For my money? I'd go .308 in the Steyr Scout, but then again I don't shoot much past +/- 300 yards. I won't hunt past that distance, either.
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Old 07-28-2019, 5:05 PM
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I personally would use a bigger caliber. But, I know the 6.5 Creedmoor is coming on strong with elk hunters in some areas of the US. And the Europeans have been hunting big game for over a century with 6.5's. So it's probably good enough within 400 yards with the right ammo.

Have you seen any accuracy tests with the Henry Long Ranger? Usually lever action rifles aren't very accurate/precise compared to bolt actions.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2019, 5:21 PM
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I'm very aware of what the 6.5 is capable of. I'm not killing cape buffalo with a 375HH, 376 or any massive cartridge it would blow the skin off the animal. While a 30-06 is a well tested cartridge, the 6.5 is no slouch. If we all thought they way some of you do there would only ever be one rifle cartridge...

Range < 300 yards +/-

Can you scope the henry - yes
How's the trigger on the henry? - Don't know, no one has one locally
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2019, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I personally would use a bigger caliber. But, I know the 6.5 Creedmoor is coming on strong with elk hunters in some areas of the US. And the Europeans have been hunting big game for over a century with 6.5's. So it's probably good enough within 400 yards with the right ammo.

Have you seen any accuracy tests with the Henry Long Ranger? Usually lever action rifles aren't very accurate/precise compared to bolt actions.
Yes, I recently watched a youtoooober shoot a .73 MOA with the henry long ranger. More than accurate for what I need.

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Old 07-28-2019, 5:36 PM
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My neighbor hunts elk.
He uses 30-06 or his new 300 win.
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Old 07-28-2019, 5:38 PM
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ill avoid the why on earth the 6.5cm man bun gun question and ask

why you want either the scout or the henry? that is like saying i want to buy a f250 or a geo metro. both are fine but not the same class of gun. if you are going to dump the cash on the Steyr just build a custom gun with the parts you want....

Hate to burn a tag in a good AZ unit...
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Old 07-28-2019, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonstar View Post
ill avoid the why on earth the 6.5cm man bun gun question and ask

why you want either the scout or the henry? that is like saying i want to buy a f250 or a geo metro. both are fine but not the same class of gun. if you are going to dump the cash on the Steyr just build a custom gun with the parts you want....

Hate to burn a tag in a good AZ unit...
You know people hunt Elk with a bow and arrow right?


Why such the hate on the 6.5cm? Have any of you actually hunted with this cartridge? Have you even checked the terminal specs at 300, 400, 500 yards for similar weight cartridges?
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:12 PM
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I will repeat myself since Dallas did not respond to this portion of my reply:

Quote:
If you must use 6.5 (which some say bests .308 past 700 yards in long-range shooting), then look to Barnes' pure copper solid spitzers.
Again, you owe it to yourself to check out the performance reputation of the pure copper solid spitzer. Go to Barnes' website.
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:13 PM
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I checked the Henry site. I wasn't familiar with the Long range. Sure, why not ? Under 300 yards. Wow ! An honest Elk Hunter. I thought every internet Elk hunter made 800 yard shots. I don't think you will find too many qualified hunters that speak for both rifles, me included. Just because these are not common rifles. The Henry also avail in .308, but the CR sure and why not scope it ? Get one or the other and get shooting More important, as you probably know, get out there and scout early. Good luck.
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2019, 6:19 PM
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At 300 yards as you stated was your maximum, the 6.5 Creedmoor is generally pushing ~1400-1600 ft-lbs of energy. The old-timer rule of thumb is that you want 1500 ft-lbs at the point of impact to kill an elk. So, yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is having a breakdown about you wanting to use the 6.5. Now it does start to drop off considerably after that, but within 300 yards, and especially with a competent bullet, it will anchor an elk. The naysayers can just google "6.5 creedmoor elk" and find pages and pages and pages and pages of people showing off their 6.5CM elk kills.
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
The naysayers can just google "6.5 creedmoor elk" and find pages and pages and pages and pages of people showing off their 6.5CM elk kills.
I've also heard stories of killing deer with .223 cal bullets. It doesn't mean those hunters made a good choice and of course we don't know how many deer shot with .223 cal bullets were wounded and lost.

Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of disliking the Creedmoor. It whether using a relatively lighter, less energetic cartridge is fair to the animal, especially if you feel like you need to buy a new rifle specifically for this hunt.
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:34 PM
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That doesn't mean you want to use something where conditions might not be perfect for the shot. An elk tag is hard to get in AZ and as someone said, he doesn't want to waste it by having a marginal cartridge. Arizona elk aren't as big as in Colorado but they're still pretty big, up to 1000 pounds.

When I tried to get a tag and had only a .308, I was going to limit my shot to 150-200 yards max. He hasn't bought the gun yet, so why not get something that's correct for the job? A friend of mine that hunts deer and elk every time he gets drawn, uses a 7mm Magnum. The old-timer hunters around here say to use a .375 H&H or .338 Win Mag at minimum.
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I've also heard stories of killing deer with .223 cal bullets. It doesn't mean those hunters made a good choice and of course we don't know how many deer shot with .223 cal bullets were wounded and lost.

Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of disliking the Creedmoor. It whether using a relatively lighter, less energetic cartridge is fair to the animal, especially if you feel like you need to buy a new rifle specifically for this hunt.
Agree. I was responding to the same post but didn't quote it like I should have.
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Old 07-28-2019, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I've also heard stories of killing deer with .223 cal bullets. It doesn't mean those hunters made a good choice and of course we don't know how many deer shot with .223 cal bullets were wounded and lost.

Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of disliking the Creedmoor. It whether using a relatively lighter, less energetic cartridge is fair to the animal, especially if you feel like you need to buy a new rifle specifically for this hunt.
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
That doesn't mean you want to use something where conditions might not be perfect for the shot. An elk tag is hard to get in AZ and as someone said, he doesn't want to waste it by having a marginal cartridge. Arizona elk aren't as big as in Colorado but they're still pretty big, up to 1000 pounds.

When I tried to get a tag and had only a .308, I was going to limit my shot to 150-200 yards max. He hasn't bought the gun yet, so why not get something that's correct for the job? A friend of mine that hunts deer and elk every time he gets drawn, uses a 7mm Magnum. The old-timer hunters around here say to use a .375 H&H or .338 Win Mag at minimum.
Okay, again, the rule of thumb for elk is that you want to hit it with about 1500 ft-lb of energy (and this is per multiple sources, including the Colorado Parks & Wildlife department which I think knows a tiny ****ing bit about killing elk). 6.5 Creedmoor does carry 1500+ ft-lbs out to 300 yards. OP said he's not taking shots farther than 300 yards. So, sorry, you both are completely wrong in telling OP that the 6.5CM isn't suitable for this task.

So, to recap: The very agency that is responsible for managing elk in what is arguably the best elk-hunting state in the country, is saying that 6.5 Creedmoor is good-to-go on elk out to 300 yards. Is there some part of that you're having a hard time grasping?
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Old 07-28-2019, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
Okay, again, the rule of thumb for elk is that you want to hit it with about 1500 ft-lb of energy (and this is per multiple sources, including the Colorado Parks & Wildlife department which I think knows a tiny ****ing bit about killing elk). 6.5 Creedmoor does carry 1500+ ft-lbs out to 300 yards. OP said he's not taking shots farther than 300 yards. So, sorry, you both are completely wrong in telling OP that the 6.5CM isn't suitable for this task.

So, to recap: The very agency that is responsible for managing elk in what is arguably the best elk-hunting state in the country, is saying that 6.5 Creedmoor is good-to-go on elk out to 300 yards. Is there some part of that you're having a hard time grasping?

300 yards is my max and I intend on sticking to it. Wounding an animal and tracking it down 3+ football fields away is not what I want to do, nor is it ethical.

The ammo I use with my RPR is the Hornady match 140g ELD. According to the specs, it's 1823 at 200yds and 1622 at 300yds tested with a 24" barrel.

The 22" barrel would be preferred, 19" would significantly change the energy curve at the same distances. Since I have some time, I may test out the 143 ELDx and 147g ELD match to see which one works best.

Thank you for your honesty.
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Old 07-28-2019, 7:19 PM
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Good luck on whatever you do. I have the same as the 6.5Crudmoore(6.5X55) and the following--264win mag/6.5X300W/7-08/308win/30-06/300win mag/45-70 as well as 257R/25-06/257W.
I will be hunting elk this year and I will be using my 338win mag with 225gr Swift A-Frames just as I did in Africa especially for the larger PG.

I just like to stack the book in my favor no matter what I hunt. Can do/what others have used is fine but I prefer to cover the worse possible situation and not just the best. I am sure you can kill an elk with the 6.5Crudmoore. Plenty have been taken with the 6.5X55 which is the same on paper. Polar bears are taken often by the natives with a 223 but that would not be my choice.

Like I said good luck on your hunt and with the proper bullet and placement you will be successful with most cartridges. Shoot a rifle you can be accurate with and use a proper constructed bullet for the game you want to kill.
I just read the bullets you are thinking of using---Very poor choice for HUNTING(the match bullet) and both are poor choices. Get a A-Frame or Barnes or at least a Nosler PAR. Elk are not paper and the bullet performance is very important. The Hornady ELDX has been erratic in terms of terminal performance and you are already handicapping yourself with your choice of cartridges.
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Old 07-28-2019, 8:11 PM
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Default 6.5 for Elk

Clearly you want to step outside the "tried and true 30-06". Enjoy your hunt and let us know the pros and cons of your ammo choice at 300 yards.
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Old 07-28-2019, 8:18 PM
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I hunt elk and have killed them with several different calibers all worked just fine. I have yet to take a shot at a elk with my 6.5 CM but when I do it will be with a 140 gr Nosler partition and not with a ELD-X. Here's the calibers I have used .338 Win Mag using a 225 gr Hornady interlock, .300 Win Mag using a 150 gr Barns Tripple shock, 30-06 using a Sierra 150 gr SP, 7X57 Mauser using a 145 gr factory PP and my .257 AI with a 100 gr Partition. They all worked just fine but I use them inside of my comfort zone and don't take risky shots, all were shot standing except one that was running and within 75-100 yards I stuck him 3 times through the ribs before he piled up. Another bull was shot twice once at the root of the tail and it bedded him instantly the second shot broke his neck everything else was one shot. The cow I shot was with a .300 RUM and a 165 gr Swift and she was standing still at the shot probably the farthest shot on a elk I have taken maybe 3-400 yards. Most were shot under 200 yards. I like the 6.5 guns but if I have the time to get to my .300 that's what I will grab first if I'm holding any of the others when I get the shot that's what I will use if it's in my comfort zone. Enjoy your elk hunting the years go by way to fast.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:28 PM
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We all know every shot made on elk is a perfect double lung that clips the heart.
So in that world, OK go with the 6.5 CR.
BUT
In an imperfect world, let’s be kind and get the job done with a well established elk round. 30-06, 300 win., 338. Just in case your shot is less then perfect.

You can fly fish for marlin, drive with a putter, use a pelet gun to hunt rabbits.
But there are better tools to get the job done.

If you really want a 6.5 CR to hunt elk, I don’t have anything against you doing what you want. Just saying.

Have fun and good luck on the elk hunt.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:24 PM
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Also.
Being in CA and reduced to only “All Copper” bullets for hunting. I have leaned to larger and faster in my Rifles calibers to help expansion on the all copper and make up for the loss in mass/weight.

Why pick a caliber that limits you to 300 yd max.? In the future you may want to push you shots out farther.

I understand everyone wants a 6.5cr being the hot caliber in fashion.
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Old 07-29-2019, 4:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
So, to recap: The very agency that is responsible for managing elk in what is arguably the best elk-hunting state in the country, is saying that 6.5 Creedmoor is good-to-go on elk out to 300 yards. Is there some part of that you're having a hard time grasping?
My point, and perhaps the point some others are making, is that while it may be "good to go" based on agency guidelines, the OP's choice of cartridge is marginal for an elk and there are better choices.

Moreover, Divernhunter has a good point about the OP's choice of bullet. Although I know nothing about their real world performance, Hornady's ELD-x bullets are advertised as hunting bullets. The ELD's however are advertised as match bullets and likely do not expand the way a hunting bullet should, which means they might not be legal for hunting in Arizona.
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Old 07-29-2019, 5:01 AM
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Jack, Hornady advertises it's ELD-M as a target/match bullet and Hornady advertises it's ELD-X as a expanding hunting bullet. I have tried them on deer and do not like them, that doesn't mean that they wont kill a deer but I don't care for them. They are a accurate bullet but no more so than a Sierra or a Nosler. I have switched to a Nosler 140 gr. partition and if I used a hornady bullet for hunting it would be a interlock or interbond but not their ELD line. I am glad I tried the ELD=X bullets on game I know what they will do now.
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Old 07-29-2019, 6:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
You know people hunt Elk with a bow and arrow ?
Yes and I have taken 3 bulls with my bow. Pics on request. Bows kill by vastly different methods. Bows cut and bullets by shock. The harder you hit the more flesh gets turned into goo.

I was asking About your hardware choice anyways. Don't be so sensitive. You already knew the 6.5manbun would troll any hunting site

How many bulls have you taken so far. Love to see some pics
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Old 07-29-2019, 7:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonstar View Post
Yes and I have taken 3 bulls with my bow. Pics on request. Bows kill by vastly different methods. Bows cut and bullets by shock. The harder you hit the more flesh gets turned into goo.

I was asking About your hardware choice anyways. Don't be so sensitive. You already knew the 6.5manbun would troll any hunting site

How many bulls have you taken so far. Love to see some pics
I'm not being sensitive and every time you call the 6.5 a manbun round you do yourself and other hunters a disservice with your level of ignorance and arrogance.

If we all thought like you there would be zero market for any weapons other than the ones YOU think are appropriate.
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Old 07-29-2019, 7:18 AM
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Given the terrain in AZ, think deep gorges, you want to shot the Elk dead in its tracks, I have been with my BIL on AZ Elk hunts, he has a plethora of calibers in his two safes and chooses 300 Rem Ultra Mag for Elk. If the Elk gets shot with a 6.5CM and runs into the gorge, you get to be the lucky guy who has to haul it out in pieces after it dies or track it down in the gorge for hours.
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Last edited by Californio; 07-29-2019 at 7:33 AM..
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Old 07-29-2019, 7:18 AM
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OP - have you hunted elk before? if so have you killed one? WHat is your hunting experience and what animals have you taken. I ask as sometimes in the hunting forum we get guys who are brand new to the sport and have already fallen in love with a cartridge when they may be better suited to another one but these guys aren't open to advice from people who have done it.

I've killed elk with a bow, 300 win mag and 338 win mag. My last elk hunt was a tule cow hunt and I took my 257 Weatherby, in part knowing that shots should be fairly close as those elk are wild, but not like any elk I've hunted in Oregon before; ie: they don't spook easy. If I was going out of State again I would consider my 270 but most likely go with one of those larger bores as it allows me to take a more marginal shot (texas heart shot anyone?) if it's a big boy and I have confidence the bullet will drive all the way into the vitals.
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Giving lewdogg21 advice on hunting. That’s like David Hogg giving advice to the NRA.
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Disagree. Been trying to teach lewdogg21 how to hunt. It's like trying to teach Steve Wonder how to see. Not sure we're ever going to get there.
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Old 07-29-2019, 7:42 AM
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Having tracked wounded deer for hours on multiple occasions, I’ll never use a cartridge that has a possibility of not dropping an animal in its tracks.

I see no reason to compromise, just go with something bigger.
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Old 07-29-2019, 7:54 AM
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I always get a kick out of these threads.

Theres always a bunch of theoretical internet keyboard hunters explaining why those of us that actually go outside are wrong.
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Old 07-29-2019, 8:41 AM
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I always get a kick out of these threads.

Theres always a bunch of theoretical internet keyboard hunters explaining why those of us that actually go outside are wrong.
Guilty as charged, I got sucked in. The Henry LR looks like a nice rifle. Any idea where it's made ?
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Old 07-29-2019, 9:17 AM
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Hey guys. It is clear that the OP wants to hunt with the 6.5Crudmoore and probably a poor bullet choice.
He really did not come here for advice and to see if it will be good. He just wanted everyone to pat him on the back and tell him the great choice he made. That show in the fact he argues with everything people say that does not agree with him.
Not sure just how much and what kind of experience he has but it seems limited about hunting.
I also agree that too many keyboard commandos tell people what they need/must do or have/use who have no or little real hunting experience. Usually it is something they made up or heard or read on the internet from someone just as clueless as themselves.
It is clear he does not understand how a arrow kills compared to a bullet also.

I suggest we all stop posting on this thread and let it die. There is nothing that will be gained by it anymore.

Good luck OP on your hunt. Maybe you should take a 22Hornet as a back-up firearm?
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:33 AM
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Congrats on getting a tag.
The elk in the picture was killed with a low life low energy 243 Winchester and the wrong bullet choice according to all the posters here.

Bypass the Hunting forum altogether as it's a bunch of well intentioned beer drinkers and BSer's that can't identify common hunting bird species with a one in seven chance of getting it right.

Either choice will work.
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