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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
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#1
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Elk Hunt - 6.5 creedmoor | which rifle? Steyr or Henry
I got a tag this year to hunt elk in northern AZ, now it's time to choose my rifle and get rounds downrange.
I'm on the fence between the Steyr Scout 19" or the Henry Long Ranger lever action 22" barrel I know there is a HUGE price difference and that's ok. I'm more interested in why one over the other. I have not had a chance to check the action on the henry, the steyr however is butter smooth and both are feather light. Stery is 6lbs 13oz, the henry is 7lbs.
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NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor: Pistol - Rifle - Shotgun - PPITH - PPOTH - NRA Certified RSO WTB the following - in San Diego --Steyr M357A1 357SIG --Five Seven IOM (round trigger guard) Never forget - השואה... לעולם לא עוד. |
#2
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Many Many many many many many many better options in both cartridge and weapon. Henry makes a 6.5CR lever gun ?? Scope ?
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A Nation of Sheep Will Beget a Government of Wolves |
#3
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Not necessarily what you want to hear but IMHO a 6.5 Creedmoor round is too light for elk unless they're very small. You want at least a 30 caliber round, preferably a .30-06 or a .300.
You might be able to kill an elk with one shot using a Creedmoor round, but your placement will have to be perfect and you'll have to be relatively close for the bullet to have enough energy at impact. |
#10
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If you must use 6.5 (which some say bests .308 past 700 yards in long-range shooting), then look to Barnes' pure copper solid spitzers.
And while the Henry is a unique lever rifle, the Steyr Scout will be the more-accurate, lighter-weight, will be "handier" and much more friendly to handle and carry for hours at a time. For my money? I'd go .308 in the Steyr Scout, but then again I don't shoot much past +/- 300 yards. I won't hunt past that distance, either.
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. "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked |
#11
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I personally would use a bigger caliber. But, I know the 6.5 Creedmoor is coming on strong with elk hunters in some areas of the US. And the Europeans have been hunting big game for over a century with 6.5's. So it's probably good enough within 400 yards with the right ammo.
Have you seen any accuracy tests with the Henry Long Ranger? Usually lever action rifles aren't very accurate/precise compared to bolt actions.
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"Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain." - Sir Winston Churchill "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Senator Barry Goldwater |
#12
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I'm very aware of what the 6.5 is capable of. I'm not killing cape buffalo with a 375HH, 376 or any massive cartridge it would blow the skin off the animal. While a 30-06 is a well tested cartridge, the 6.5 is no slouch. If we all thought they way some of you do there would only ever be one rifle cartridge...
Range < 300 yards +/- Can you scope the henry - yes How's the trigger on the henry? - Don't know, no one has one locally
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NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor: Pistol - Rifle - Shotgun - PPITH - PPOTH - NRA Certified RSO WTB the following - in San Diego --Steyr M357A1 357SIG --Five Seven IOM (round trigger guard) Never forget - השואה... לעולם לא עוד. |
#13
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#14
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My neighbor hunts elk.
He uses 30-06 or his new 300 win.
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Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked. I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows. I'm Back. |
#15
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ill avoid the why on earth the 6.5cm man bun gun question and ask
why you want either the scout or the henry? that is like saying i want to buy a f250 or a geo metro. both are fine but not the same class of gun. if you are going to dump the cash on the Steyr just build a custom gun with the parts you want.... Hate to burn a tag in a good AZ unit... |
#16
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Why such the hate on the 6.5cm? Have any of you actually hunted with this cartridge? Have you even checked the terminal specs at 300, 400, 500 yards for similar weight cartridges? |
#17
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I will repeat myself since Dallas did not respond to this portion of my reply:
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__________________
. "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked |
#18
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I checked the Henry site. I wasn't familiar with the Long range. Sure, why not ? Under 300 yards. Wow ! An honest Elk Hunter. I thought every internet Elk hunter made 800 yard shots. I don't think you will find too many qualified hunters that speak for both rifles, me included. Just because these are not common rifles. The Henry also avail in .308, but the CR sure and why not scope it ? Get one or the other and get shooting More important, as you probably know, get out there and scout early. Good luck.
__________________
A Nation of Sheep Will Beget a Government of Wolves |
#19
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At 300 yards as you stated was your maximum, the 6.5 Creedmoor is generally pushing ~1400-1600 ft-lbs of energy. The old-timer rule of thumb is that you want 1500 ft-lbs at the point of impact to kill an elk. So, yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is having a breakdown about you wanting to use the 6.5. Now it does start to drop off considerably after that, but within 300 yards, and especially with a competent bullet, it will anchor an elk. The naysayers can just google "6.5 creedmoor elk" and find pages and pages and pages and pages of people showing off their 6.5CM elk kills.
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#20
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Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of disliking the Creedmoor. It whether using a relatively lighter, less energetic cartridge is fair to the animal, especially if you feel like you need to buy a new rifle specifically for this hunt. |
#21
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That doesn't mean you want to use something where conditions might not be perfect for the shot. An elk tag is hard to get in AZ and as someone said, he doesn't want to waste it by having a marginal cartridge. Arizona elk aren't as big as in Colorado but they're still pretty big, up to 1000 pounds.
When I tried to get a tag and had only a .308, I was going to limit my shot to 150-200 yards max. He hasn't bought the gun yet, so why not get something that's correct for the job? A friend of mine that hunts deer and elk every time he gets drawn, uses a 7mm Magnum. The old-timer hunters around here say to use a .375 H&H or .338 Win Mag at minimum. |
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#23
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So, to recap: The very agency that is responsible for managing elk in what is arguably the best elk-hunting state in the country, is saying that 6.5 Creedmoor is good-to-go on elk out to 300 yards. Is there some part of that you're having a hard time grasping? |
#24
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300 yards is my max and I intend on sticking to it. Wounding an animal and tracking it down 3+ football fields away is not what I want to do, nor is it ethical. The ammo I use with my RPR is the Hornady match 140g ELD. According to the specs, it's 1823 at 200yds and 1622 at 300yds tested with a 24" barrel. The 22" barrel would be preferred, 19" would significantly change the energy curve at the same distances. Since I have some time, I may test out the 143 ELDx and 147g ELD match to see which one works best. Thank you for your honesty. |
#25
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Good luck on whatever you do. I have the same as the 6.5Crudmoore(6.5X55) and the following--264win mag/6.5X300W/7-08/308win/30-06/300win mag/45-70 as well as 257R/25-06/257W.
I will be hunting elk this year and I will be using my 338win mag with 225gr Swift A-Frames just as I did in Africa especially for the larger PG. I just like to stack the book in my favor no matter what I hunt. Can do/what others have used is fine but I prefer to cover the worse possible situation and not just the best. I am sure you can kill an elk with the 6.5Crudmoore. Plenty have been taken with the 6.5X55 which is the same on paper. Polar bears are taken often by the natives with a 223 but that would not be my choice. Like I said good luck on your hunt and with the proper bullet and placement you will be successful with most cartridges. Shoot a rifle you can be accurate with and use a proper constructed bullet for the game you want to kill. I just read the bullets you are thinking of using---Very poor choice for HUNTING(the match bullet) and both are poor choices. Get a A-Frame or Barnes or at least a Nosler PAR. Elk are not paper and the bullet performance is very important. The Hornady ELDX has been erratic in terms of terminal performance and you are already handicapping yourself with your choice of cartridges.
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A 30cal will reach out and touch them. A 50cal will kick their butt. NRA Life Member, NRA certified RSO & Basic Pistol Instructor, Hunter, shooter, reloader SCI, Manteca Sportsmen Club, Coalinga Rifle Club, Escalon Sportsmans Club, Waterford Sportsman Club & NAHA Member, Madison Society member Last edited by Divernhunter; 07-28-2019 at 7:24 PM.. |
#27
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I hunt elk and have killed them with several different calibers all worked just fine. I have yet to take a shot at a elk with my 6.5 CM but when I do it will be with a 140 gr Nosler partition and not with a ELD-X. Here's the calibers I have used .338 Win Mag using a 225 gr Hornady interlock, .300 Win Mag using a 150 gr Barns Tripple shock, 30-06 using a Sierra 150 gr SP, 7X57 Mauser using a 145 gr factory PP and my .257 AI with a 100 gr Partition. They all worked just fine but I use them inside of my comfort zone and don't take risky shots, all were shot standing except one that was running and within 75-100 yards I stuck him 3 times through the ribs before he piled up. Another bull was shot twice once at the root of the tail and it bedded him instantly the second shot broke his neck everything else was one shot. The cow I shot was with a .300 RUM and a 165 gr Swift and she was standing still at the shot probably the farthest shot on a elk I have taken maybe 3-400 yards. Most were shot under 200 yards. I like the 6.5 guns but if I have the time to get to my .300 that's what I will grab first if I'm holding any of the others when I get the shot that's what I will use if it's in my comfort zone. Enjoy your elk hunting the years go by way to fast.
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#28
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We all know every shot made on elk is a perfect double lung that clips the heart.
So in that world, OK go with the 6.5 CR. BUT In an imperfect world, let’s be kind and get the job done with a well established elk round. 30-06, 300 win., 338. Just in case your shot is less then perfect. You can fly fish for marlin, drive with a putter, use a pelet gun to hunt rabbits. But there are better tools to get the job done. If you really want a 6.5 CR to hunt elk, I don’t have anything against you doing what you want. Just saying. Have fun and good luck on the elk hunt. |
#29
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Also.
Being in CA and reduced to only “All Copper” bullets for hunting. I have leaned to larger and faster in my Rifles calibers to help expansion on the all copper and make up for the loss in mass/weight. Why pick a caliber that limits you to 300 yd max.? In the future you may want to push you shots out farther. I understand everyone wants a 6.5cr being the hot caliber in fashion. |
#30
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Moreover, Divernhunter has a good point about the OP's choice of bullet. Although I know nothing about their real world performance, Hornady's ELD-x bullets are advertised as hunting bullets. The ELD's however are advertised as match bullets and likely do not expand the way a hunting bullet should, which means they might not be legal for hunting in Arizona. |
#31
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Jack, Hornady advertises it's ELD-M as a target/match bullet and Hornady advertises it's ELD-X as a expanding hunting bullet. I have tried them on deer and do not like them, that doesn't mean that they wont kill a deer but I don't care for them. They are a accurate bullet but no more so than a Sierra or a Nosler. I have switched to a Nosler 140 gr. partition and if I used a hornady bullet for hunting it would be a interlock or interbond but not their ELD line. I am glad I tried the ELD=X bullets on game I know what they will do now.
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#32
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Yes and I have taken 3 bulls with my bow. Pics on request. Bows kill by vastly different methods. Bows cut and bullets by shock. The harder you hit the more flesh gets turned into goo.
I was asking About your hardware choice anyways. Don't be so sensitive. You already knew the 6.5manbun would troll any hunting site How many bulls have you taken so far. Love to see some pics |
#33
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If we all thought like you there would be zero market for any weapons other than the ones YOU think are appropriate. |
#34
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Given the terrain in AZ, think deep gorges, you want to shot the Elk dead in its tracks, I have been with my BIL on AZ Elk hunts, he has a plethora of calibers in his two safes and chooses 300 Rem Ultra Mag for Elk. If the Elk gets shot with a 6.5CM and runs into the gorge, you get to be the lucky guy who has to haul it out in pieces after it dies or track it down in the gorge for hours.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez Last edited by Californio; 07-29-2019 at 7:33 AM.. |
#35
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OP - have you hunted elk before? if so have you killed one? WHat is your hunting experience and what animals have you taken. I ask as sometimes in the hunting forum we get guys who are brand new to the sport and have already fallen in love with a cartridge when they may be better suited to another one but these guys aren't open to advice from people who have done it.
I've killed elk with a bow, 300 win mag and 338 win mag. My last elk hunt was a tule cow hunt and I took my 257 Weatherby, in part knowing that shots should be fairly close as those elk are wild, but not like any elk I've hunted in Oregon before; ie: they don't spook easy. If I was going out of State again I would consider my 270 but most likely go with one of those larger bores as it allows me to take a more marginal shot (texas heart shot anyone?) if it's a big boy and I have confidence the bullet will drive all the way into the vitals.
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#38
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Guilty as charged, I got sucked in. The Henry LR looks like a nice rifle. Any idea where it's made ?
__________________
A Nation of Sheep Will Beget a Government of Wolves |
#39
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Hey guys. It is clear that the OP wants to hunt with the 6.5Crudmoore and probably a poor bullet choice.
He really did not come here for advice and to see if it will be good. He just wanted everyone to pat him on the back and tell him the great choice he made. That show in the fact he argues with everything people say that does not agree with him. Not sure just how much and what kind of experience he has but it seems limited about hunting. I also agree that too many keyboard commandos tell people what they need/must do or have/use who have no or little real hunting experience. Usually it is something they made up or heard or read on the internet from someone just as clueless as themselves. It is clear he does not understand how a arrow kills compared to a bullet also. I suggest we all stop posting on this thread and let it die. There is nothing that will be gained by it anymore. Good luck OP on your hunt. Maybe you should take a 22Hornet as a back-up firearm?
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A 30cal will reach out and touch them. A 50cal will kick their butt. NRA Life Member, NRA certified RSO & Basic Pistol Instructor, Hunter, shooter, reloader SCI, Manteca Sportsmen Club, Coalinga Rifle Club, Escalon Sportsmans Club, Waterford Sportsman Club & NAHA Member, Madison Society member |
#40
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Congrats on getting a tag.
The elk in the picture was killed with a low life low energy 243 Winchester and the wrong bullet choice according to all the posters here. Bypass the Hunting forum altogether as it's a bunch of well intentioned beer drinkers and BSer's that can't identify common hunting bird species with a one in seven chance of getting it right. Either choice will work.
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Lynn Dragoman, Jr. Southwest Regional Director Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) www.unlimitedrange.org Not a commercial business. URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards! Last edited by LynnJr; 11-24-2019 at 6:11 PM.. |
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