*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[LV_G22]

Agree. Bill Kapeles is one of the good guys...

He is honest and has always kept his word.

[detcmfan]

I'll be there this weekend for training...will keep you all posted...

[Citizen_B]

How did you register for the class? Phone? The myfrontsight website seems have to removed the class dates.

[detcmfan]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

How did you register for the class? Phone? The myfrontsight website seems have to removed the class dates.

You have to be at Level OT3 or above within the org

[Citizen_B]

Damn, I’m only OT1. If only there was more time.

[DRM6000]

Courses are back up on myfrontsite

[detcmfan]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

Damn, I’m only OT1. If only there was more time.

But seriously yeah I just called after receiving that email. And the 4 PR instructors are still there!

[Mustard]

Someone talk me out of doing a 4-day shotgun class starting Dec 26

I've heard the shotgun classes are the most fun and easy to DG, vs. carbine or pistol. What do y'all think?

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Someone talk me out of doing a 4-day shotgun class starting Dec 26

I've heard the shotgun classes are the most fun and easy to DG, vs. carbine or pistol. What do y'all think?

Why talk you out of it? The shotgun class is probably the most fun I've had at FS. As long as you don't fumble the port loading and reloads you should be fine. Hotting steel at 50 years is pretty darn easy. I took the class as a private and used a 1301 with a red dot and it felt like cheating.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

Why talk you out of it?

I'm broke

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Someone talk me out of doing a 4-day shotgun class starting Dec 26

I've heard the shotgun classes are the most fun and easy to DG, vs. carbine or pistol. What do y'all think?

Yes, easiest class to DG by a long-shot.

Frankly, I abhor shotguns and pretty much only ever trained with them when I was forced to for qualifications back in the late 80s early 90s. So, for me, I wouldn't call it the most fun, but somehow I've been talked into doing it a few times...

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by Mustard

I'm broke

You can always earn money back... You can't bring back lost opportunities...

That said,

Originally Posted by Mustard

I've heard the shotgun classes are the most fun and easy to DG, vs. carbine or pistol. What do y'all think?

Why do you still aim for the "DG"...? The DG does not exist anymore... It is now PF "RANK"...


_

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by rodralig

You can always earn money back... You can't bring back lost opportunities...

That said,




Why do you still aim for the "DG"...? The DG does not exist anymore... It is now PF "RANK"...


_

Good points all around.

As far as the DG.... pride? At one point i was wanting to complete the entire catalogue of FS training courses; gotta catch all the pokemon, lol

I think I'll do a 2-day class can call it good enough. In the 4-day classes I've taken, you learn all the important stuff during the first two days, and day three and four are just more reps (and some extra fun stuff like shoot house or man-on-man).

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Good points all around.

As far as the DG.... pride? At one point i was wanting to complete the entire catalogue of FS training courses; gotta catch all the pokemon, lol

I think I'll do a 2-day class can call it good enough. In the 4-day classes I've taken, you learn all the important stuff during the first two days, and day three and four are just more reps (and some extra fun stuff like shoot house or man-on-man).

It was a ghost town at FS the past two days. Six students on property; four doing handgun, and two doing shotgun (including me). The other student in my class was doing four day, so it looks like he gets a free two-day private lesson

The nacho hot dog from the cafe is delicious

[DRM6000]

Originally Posted by Mustard

It was a ghost town at FS the past two days. Six students on property; four doing handgun, and two doing shotgun (including me). The other student in my class was doing four day, so it looks like he gets a free two-day private lesson

The nacho hot dog from the cafe is delicious

Thanks for the report. I'm thinking about going one more time for a FS course.

I once took a 4-day night rifle class. Everybody else were 2-day students. I had two instructors for two nights and almost everything we did was not FS curriculum. I ran all the canyons at night. Learned some fieldcraft and tracker stuff. The instructor brought out a 9mm full-auto subgun for me to run the shoot houses and other fun stuff. I've forgotten all the other stuff we did. It was one of the best times ever at FS. Gary Hibbard was a cool instructor to have for that class.

[Mustard]

Yeah, i'm getting nostalgic for FS. This is my first time back since before covid.

The word from my range master was PF was looking to get their curriculum up and running starting April, and he was optimistic about the future. PF has been equipping the staff with PF logo outerwear, and giving ammo and doing training with them.

Of course hearing second hand from the other class, PF has inherited a **** show, so we'll see what happens

[dad4mnc]

Any idea what this is all about?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/fronts...0798680923019/
https://cases.stretto.com/public/X18...0000000098.pdf

[ARFrog]

Check out documents to be produced as shown in Exhibit A. Looks like some creditors are still after Iggy and his income and background dealings during the BK process.

[detcmfan]

Things are looking up. Brad is gone. Maybe he's busy househunting.

[BadKitty]

Hey y'all, I never did get a chance to take Practical Rifle before this whole FS situation went sideways. Since PF is still running the current FS courses through April, do you think it's worth it to run out there before the full switch over?

I was interested in either the 2DPR or 4DPR. I read somewhere around here that many of the 4D courses were low enrollment last fall due to the people enrolled in 2D not continuing on for the full four. Is it a waste of time to take the full 4DPR, especially since the overall costs will be higher for me and DG is not a thing anymore?

[waveslayer]

Originally Posted by BadKitty

Hey y'all, I never did get a chance to take Practical Rifle before this whole FS situation went sideways. Since PF is still running the current FS courses through April, do you think it's worth it to run out there before the full switch over?

I was interested in either the 2DPR or 4DPR. I read somewhere around here that many of the 4D courses were low enrollment last fall due to the people enrolled in 2D not continuing on for the full four. Is it a waste of time to take the full 4DPR, especially since the overall costs will be higher for me and DG is not a thing anymore?

Won't hurt, then take it again under PF to see what else you can learn.

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[LV_G22]

Had a great 1-Day Private HG out at PrairieFire this past Saturday.

Felt great to be out on property again, and SHOOTING!

Still very quiet out there with the changes and being January, but they are really training the staff and gearing up for April.

I am excited to see their vision implemented this Spring...

[DRM6000]

What was training curriculum like in the private HG? FS based or PF stuff?

[LV_G22]

My training was very "personalized"

They are still running FS curriculum, but are actively training their staff on PF curriculum and expect to transition in April.

I have no direct, definite knowledge, but I THINK they are considering basic "intro" classes loosely based upon FS 4D HG and then a whole new more advanced PF curriculum for more advanced training.

I have been told that they are real operators and are going to be offering tactical training in addition to competition training.

Take most above as hearsay, not fact.....

I eagerly await the roll out.....

[dad4mnc]

Originally Posted by LV_G22

My training was very "personalized"

They are still running FS curriculum, but are actively training their staff on PF curriculum and expect to transition in April.

I have no direct, definite knowledge, but I THINK they are considering basic "intro" classes loosely based upon FS 4D HG and then a whole new more advanced PF curriculum for more advanced training.

I have been told that they are real operators and are going to be offering tactical training in addition to competition training.

Take most above as hearsay, not fact.....

I eagerly await the roll out.....

It will be interesting to see how they incorporate red dots and AIWB into the training.

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by LV_G22

My training was very "personalized"

They are still running FS curriculum, but are actively training their staff on PF curriculum and expect to transition in April.

I have no direct, definite knowledge, but I THINK they are considering basic "intro" classes loosely based upon FS 4D HG and then a whole new more advanced PF curriculum for more advanced training.

I have been told that they are real operators and are going to be offering tactical training in addition to competition training.

Take most above as hearsay, not fact.....

I eagerly await the roll out.....

Did you get the feeling advancement to upper level classes will still be based on scoring achievements like DG?

I wonder if the upper level classes at PF still requires a DG within the previous 24 month while under FS. Interested in taking Precision Rifle but my last PR is getting close to 2 years ago.

[Citizen_B]

Originally Posted by LV_G22

I have no direct, definite knowledge, but I THINK they are considering basic "intro" classes loosely based upon FS 4D HG and then a whole new more advanced PF curriculum for more advanced training.

When I saw their proposed plan during the proceedings lacking any focus on intro stuff, I was surprised. I hope they realize the intro classes are what brought the masses to FS. I think they absolutely need to have some of these to keep people coming through the door. The facility is big enough and arguably already purpose built for that. Get the masses training the intro stuff at a relatively low cost, then up sell them on advanced training later.

I have been told that they are real operators and are going to be offering tactical training in addition to competition training.

Unless they're trying to (and successful at) landing LEA contracts, I just don't see a big enough civilian market for advanced tactical training that can fuel the revenue needs of a facility the size of FS. Maybe I'm wrong. It's possibly they could try to snatch up all the national competitive shooting stuff, but that's not easy.

[LV_G22]

Originally Posted by beanz2

Did you get the feeling advancement to upper level classes will still be based on scoring achievements like DG?

I wonder if the upper level classes at PF still requires a DG within the previous 24 month while under FS. Interested in taking Precision Rifle but my last PR is getting close to 2 years ago.

I don't have any direct knowledge, but I get the feeling that these guys are less interested in the titles and test scores....

[Mustard]

@BadKitty
The curriculum/concepts of practical rifle and defensive handgun are pretty much identical besides the platform specifics. Handguns have 1 point of contact whereas carbines have 4 (support hand, firing hand, shoulder, cheek weld); malfunction clearances are pretty much the same words (tap, rack/flip, back on target), with the exception of the type 3 on an AR where you add a "finger f---" as you manually clear the magwell of any obstructions before you reinsert a mag. The course of fire is a bunch of controlled pairs to thoracic cavity, plus occasional headshots, from various distances; rifles go from 7, 10, 25, 25, 50, 100 IIRC. IMO there's only three really big new things in practical rifle that are not in defensive handgun, and that's different shooting positions (kneeling/prone), presentation positions (hi/lo/field ready) and height over bore considerations.

If you got the time, money, ammo to spare, go take it and have fun! If any of those are in short supply, find a copy of the skills test and dry practice.

Regarding the PF vs FS curriculum, I heard they're going to retain most of the FS stuff, but add sprinkles of PF to it. They're not going to straight cross out FS and write in PF on everything, but it's hard to get away from the basics, and it just makes general sense to not just rebrand FS into PF.

I also heard they'll be adding more advanced stuff, but I can't compare to FS because I never made it past my practical rifle DG + ATHG(night) into the more advanced FS classes.

I heard that PF was not keen on FS requirement to DG courses before advancing up the curriculum. I mostly agree that it sucks to have to DG a course before taking the cooler fun stuff; as long as you are safe and you're not slowing down the instructors or other students with your lack of skillz, come out and play, imo!

[BadKitty]

Originally Posted by Mustard

@BadKitty
The curriculum/concepts of practical rifle and defensive handgun are pretty much identical besides the platform specifics. Handguns have 1 point of contact whereas carbines have 4 (support hand, firing hand, shoulder, cheek weld); malfunction clearances are pretty much the same words (tap, rack/flip, back on target), with the exception of the type 3 on an AR where you add a "finger f---" as you manually clear the magwell of any obstructions before you reinsert a mag. The course of fire is a bunch of controlled pairs to thoracic cavity, plus occasional headshots, from various distances; rifles go from 7, 10, 25, 25, 50, 100 IIRC. IMO there's only three really big new things in practical rifle that are not in defensive handgun, and that's different shooting positions (kneeling/prone), presentation positions (hi/lo/field ready) and height over bore considerations.

If you got the time, money, ammo to spare, go take it and have fun! If any of those are in short supply, find a copy of the skills test and dry practice

Thanks, boss! That's great info. I actually just signed up for the 4DPR moments before logging into CGN. I decided to just go for it. I'm going to go big or go home for my first and only FS class. LOL

I will ask around when I'm there to see what their plans are for curriculum going forward. I can only assume that PF will be giving us a talk on their company at the beginning of the class.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by BadKitty

Thanks, boss! That's great info. I actually just signed up for the 4DPR moments before logging into CGN. I decided to just go for it. I'm going to go big or go home for my first and only FS class. LOL

I will ask around when I'm there to see what their plans are for curriculum going forward. I can only assume that PF will be giving us a talk on their company at the beginning of the class.

Didn't know it was your first and only FS class. Once you get into the core of the basic skills they teach you (controlled pairs, reloads, malfunctions, marksmanship, etc), what I said will make more sense that HG and PR are very similar.

Have fun, and imagine the place with way more people and the instructors on more FS kool-aid, like FS was in its hey-day

[Mezcalfud]

Well I am maxed out on PTO so I decided to sign up for a 2 day Rifle skill builder mid Feb with my B.I.L. I hope it doesn't rain.

If classes hold to the smaller turnout, ammo count may increase a bit so I am thinking of using ammo supply warehouse for the first time.

Looking forward to all I can eat Chinese food. Saddle West is still dirt cheap but last time they cut soap/shampoo from the budget.

[Doctor_Chicago]

Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter

You just pay for the flight and only one dinner. Hotel and dinners covered along with some night group activities. Like going to TopGolf

So I went out for a week to Las Vegas and skipped going to PF (formally known as FS). Went to Top Golf one time and someone else threw a Private Party with three slots and had a blast.

Ate at Emeril Lagasse Place and Wolfgang Puck's Restaurant in the MGM GRAND and partied for a week with my Refund Check from FS.

Came back home and Shot my Guns in a Private Range and Drank in the Private Bar afterwards and Played Pool.

There are other ways to do it.

[TeamAllen]

Good use of time. Definitely no shortage of fun things to do in Vegas.
Thinking about taking a Practical Rifle Skill Builder in April. We'll see how it goes.

[Mezcalfud]

I just came back from PF after a 2 day rifle class that was the first of their new PF training format. Chris and Miles were our instructors and there were 6 of us. This was an awesome class and fun time!

The class is much more flexible than in the past and can be tailored to the skill level of the group. Our class was listed as the old skill builder so our group was definitely not beginner and we moved through different drills including moving and shooting, plates, gongs ,etc.
The foundation skills have changed as well, like stance, shouldering, trigger manipulation and the targets too.

The pistol classes have changed to the new format as well and I am going to try to get in one asap.

Oh, ammo counts went way up and we shot a lot. We were advised to bring 400 a day and because the class was smaller, we ran well past that.

I like the structural changes, new training format and the enthusiasm behind PF so far.

[TeamAllen]

Thanks for the update. Especially the round count. Glad you had fun.
That gets me more excited for the 4/7 Rifle SB.

[Mezcalfud]

Originally Posted by TeamAllen

Thanks for the update. Especially the round count. Glad you had fun.
That gets me more excited for the 4/7 Rifle SB.

I think you'll enjoy it. There is little to no sitting other than reload/water breaks and lunch. No more early 1st day signing forms or classroom stuff either! Show up, check in and get your range and they will hand you a couple forms. Weapon/ammo inspection and forms are handled by the instructor.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I'm taking the 4-day Practical Rifle class next month.

[Mezcalfud]

Check with admin because they are changing things up a bit and updates may start appearing online too. The skill builder is in name only and I know the pistol SB guys were coming into a 4 day pistol on days 3&4 which will be rough with all the technique changes.

[BadKitty]

Originally Posted by Mezcalfud

I think you'll enjoy it. There is little to no sitting other than reload/water breaks and lunch. No more early 1st day signing forms or classroom stuff either! Show up, check in and get your range and they will hand you a couple forms. Weapon/ammo inspection and forms are handled by the instructor.

I am going to be taking the 4DPR very soon. I was wondering if I should bring a folding camp chair. I'm not sure if their ranges have something to sit on or what. Also, I was thinking I should just pack sandwiches or something for lunch?