*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[NorthBay Shooter]

Originally Posted by SWalt

I still have all the little instructional books FS gave when I bought my Diamond. I sell to you for $10k! People will wonder how you learned to shoot like that!

But do you have the materials from the teach FS at home that came with the Ambassador? They are somewhere in my junk closet

[SWalt]

Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter

But do you have the materials from the teach FS at home that came with the Ambassador? They are somewhere in my junk closet

Nope......I didn't see any point of further memberships past Diamond. And like a lot of members his constant hucksterism wasn't for me.

[seeedgar]

Originally Posted by LV_G22

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...postcount=1359

Anything is game, after the sale is complete!!

[seeedgar]

Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter

So do we know if the disclosure was approved last week? If not, does that mean the proposal is in jeopardy and FS will be broken up and sold off? It seems that the DIP financing expires at the end of Nov and Dr. P does not have the money to fund operations in December.

He purposely drains the business accounts, at least before the bankruptcy. He's kinda under the microscope now.

[NorthBay Shooter]

Originally Posted by SWalt

Nope......I didn't see any point of further memberships past Diamond. And like a lot of members his constant hucksterism wasn't for me.

I think Ambassador was before Diamond. I got it for like 200 back in the day. It came with materials to conduct FS classes in your home (dry fire only). It was pre the "new front sight" marketing stuff. If I remember correctly.

[SWalt]

My Diamond was $2k in 2009 and you couldn't sell $500/250/125 TBD memberships online or advertise, only face to face. IIRC, the Ambassador gimmick was you could sell and advertise TBD memberships online but nobody else could. On the other hand, he offered so many "opportunities" that is hard to remember. Blast from the past........

Sunday, March 18, 2018

Dear xxx,

As the Front Sight resort is completed and I prepare to turn it over to the members to run for generations to come, it is very important that you and your family understand and are able to mentally and verbally defend the Constitution (and the right of gun ownership) in a manner that is scholarly, yet intriguing, interesting and easily duplicated with everyone you come in contact with.

In other words, Front Sight firearms training has made you better with a firearm than 99.9 % of the gun owning population. Now it is time to enlighten, entertain, train and educate you, your family, friends, and co-workers as Constitutional Defenders so you are more knowledgeable and better able to explain and defend the Constitution than 99.9% of anyone you will ever come in contact with.

To accomplish this part of my master plan for Front Sight members and the organization as a whole, I teamed up with the best man in America to inspire you, educate you, train you and provide you with the verbal and mental ammunition you and your family need to properly defend the Constitution for generations to come. His name is Rick Green and together we are going to take you on a journey you will never forget and will forever positively change you, your family and your friends.

And of course, I am going to do this in the typical Front Sight Abundance, giving you FREE GUNS, certificates, memberships, credits, and will even DOUBLE, TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE your Front Sight assets to better position you to trade your assets I am giving you for Front Sight ownership when the resort is completed, financially self-sufficient, self-sustaining, and running like a well-oiled machine as you are accustomed to experiencing whenever you attend a course at Front Sight.
So go to www.frontsight.com/ConstitutionalDefendersClub to see what you receive on this amazing journey I have created for you.
DO NOT HESITATE ON THIS ONE AS WE CAN ONLY ACCEPT A VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF MEMBERS TO THIS EXCLUSIVE CLUB!

And thanks again for your participation in Front Sight's phenomenal success.

Sincerely,

Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
#1 Front Sight Road
Pahrump, NV 89061

[seeedgar]

Glad I got all of my $759 refunded after 14+ classes!!

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I have a bunch of memberships and Front Sight Bucks that are essentially useless, so I figured I'd just transfer a few of the memberships to friends who have FS profiles but aren't members. Wanted to do this so they could take advantage of the 2-year Prairie Fire membership that they would be offering existing Front Sight members for their first two years in business if their proposal is approved.

Unfortunately Front Sight is not allowing you to use your Front Sight Bucks to cover the transfer fee ($100), and will only accept the payment in the form of a credit card payment. Previously you could use your credits to cover the transfer cost. Really sucks all of these things are going to disappear in a matter of weeks.

[dsw-001]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

I have a bunch of memberships and Front Sight Bucks that are essentially useless, so I figured I'd just transfer a few of the memberships to friends who have FS profiles but aren't members. Wanted to do this so they could take advantage of the 2-year Prairie Fire membership that they would be offering existing Front Sight members for their first two years in business if their proposal is approved.

Unfortunately Front Sight is not allowing you to use your Front Sight Bucks to cover the transfer fee ($100), and will only accept the payment in the form of a credit card payment. Previously you could use your credits to cover the transfer cost. Really sucks all of these things are going to disappear in a matter of weeks.

Vinnie,

I think Piazza upgraded everyone who took a class to a Patriot membership to boost the membership numbers artificially at the beginning of this year.

You should have your friends login and check.

DW

[surferbum]

Pizza's consulting payoff. At least $7 million dollars
https://cases.stretto.com/public/X18...0000000168.pdf
Link to details

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[ARFrog]

Iggy's getting $700,000 per year for 10 years on a consultation and/or employment agreement for a marketing position per Exhibit 1. Seems the new PF management's strong comments about Iggy not being employed are more hogwash.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...well you get the picture, and no I won't be fooled again.

[AR15fan]

Originally Posted by surferbum

Pizza's consulting payoff. At least $7 million dollars
https://cases.stretto.com/public/X18...0000000168.pdf
Link to details

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Wow. This proves unequivocally that Prairie Fire flat out lied. $7m total comp over 10 years is hardly “not involved”.

[SWalt]

Originally Posted by surferbum

Pizza's consulting payoff. At least $7 million dollars
https://cases.stretto.com/public/X18...0000000168.pdf
Link to details

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL

[VolvoWrench]

Don't see myself signing up for any P.F. classes free for two years (not really) or, not. no matter what.

[Citizen_B]

Wow, that’s a compensation package, not reasonable payment for services. Smells like some backroom dealing.

[SWalt]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

Wow, that’s a compensation package, not reasonable payment for services. Smells like some backroom dealing.

Ya know, bankruptcy is in federal court not some hokey NV court where underhand crap might be allowed with a slap on the back. IANAL and don't know bankruptcy law but I could imagine a federal judge looking at the stalking horse, out of the blue PF bid with its denial that Iggy is part of it but then they file that? I'd be looking at them sideways wondering if they were committing fraud and gaming the court. But then again, IANAL

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by AR15fan

Wow. This proves unequivocally that Prairie Fire flat out lied. $7m total comp over 10 years is hardly “not involved”.

Anything and everything even slightly connected with Piazza remains a bald faced lie.

Interesting that when Prarie Fire made their initial announcement it suckered more than a few FS members hook, line, and sinker...big time.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

Wow, that’s a compensation package, not reasonable payment for services. Smells like some backroom dealing.

"Some backroom dealing" is the understatement of the year.

Those who follow the PF announcements deserve to get screwed just as they were screwed by Piazza in the past.

[seeedgar]

No honor among thieves!!
Let it crash and burn!!!
In order to send the loudest message, not one person should step foot on the PF/FS II property for training or any other activities, until an honorable person or group with proven integrity and capabilities takes ownership, if at all possible. Otherwise, let it crash and burn!!

[Matt P]

Hopefully Doctor Chicago or other will come in here and explain that agreement document.
I am reading that IPs specific role shall basically be at the discretion of PF. This includes attempts to send out emails.
PF made it clear he is not a agent of their company/business.

So IP would not be a employee of PF. Being a consultant doesn’t necessarily mean a employee.

Reads like this paid position for IP is a good faith measure to complete a transition.
My take is this agreement would be the price for IP to release control.

Despite all that has happened it may not be so easy to dismiss IPs investment into that property. The property still has value and the cost is 700K paid out in 10 years.
I am sure IP is under no illusion about what his actual involvement will be.

I am not seeing any back tracking by PF. Just a willingness to make the take over happen.

[surferbum]

Originally Posted by Matt P

Hopefully Doctor Chicago or other will come in here and explain that agreement document.
I am reading that IPs specific role shall basically be at the discretion of PF. This includes attempts to send out emails.
PF made it clear he is not a agent of their company/business.

So IP would not be a employee of PF. Being a consultant doesn’t necessarily mean a employee.

Reads like this paid position for IP is a good faith measure to complete a transition.
My take is this agreement would be the price for IP to release control.

Despite all that has happened it may not be so easy to dismiss IPs investment into that property. The property still has value and the cost is 700K paid out in 10 years.
I am sure IP is under no illusion about what his actual involvement will be.

I am not seeing any back tracking by PF. Just a willingness to make the take over happen.

I think you've misunderstood. Quoting directly, "As compensation for the Services, Dr. Piazza shall receive annual compensation in the amount of $700,000 (the "Base Compensation")
The Base Compensation and Contingent Payout are not subject to cancellation, termination or offset for 10 years from the Confirmation Date."

That's 10 years @ $700,000/year minimum!

Now that's an expensive consultant.


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[Bralowe]

It’s obvious that IP, and the new entity, are the same.

[Matt P]

Actually I believe you misunderstood.

Next to “No Agency Relationship”.
Consulting agreement to contain provisions that Dr. Piazza does not represent, and is not is an agent of, PrairieFire.

Seems pretty clear in the agreement that IP signed.

Additionally I acknowledged IPs involvement with PF as a consultant at the rate of $700K a year.

Not sure where you get my misunderstanding.

[smoothy8500]

Really? They "need" his consultation for 10 years? I can see 3, maybe 5 years tops get up and running.

I tried looking up Prairiefire' other facilities..... There's almost nothing about them. I really think this group got fabricated by IP to come in as a White Knight and save him.

[LCU1670]

Originally Posted by seeedgar

No honor among thieves!!
Let it crash and burn!!!
In order to send the loudest message, not one person should step foot on the PF/FS II property for training or any other activities, until an honorable person or group with proven integrity and capabilities takes ownership, if at all possible. Otherwise, let it crash and burn!!

Again, the members suffer, take the hit. Bear the burden of failure.

[Citizen_B]

Originally Posted by Matt P

So IP would not be a employee of PF. Being a consultant doesn’t necessarily mean a employee.

True, but signing a contract over (minimum) 10 years is essentially an employee just not officially on paper. It's actually a stronger relationship than an employee as employee's don't sign guaranteed employment contracts.

Reads like this paid position for IP is a good faith measure to complete a transition.
My take is this agreement would be the price for IP to release control.

I disagree. Supposedly IP's role is to be limited, and it likely will be. In that spirit, a short consulting period at a fair cost would be reasonable. $700k/year for 10 years is excessive and sounds like backroom dealing.

Despite all that has happened it may not be so easy to dismiss IPs investment into that property.

Supposedly by rumor (so take that for what it's worth), IP withdrew funds from the LLC. I don't believe he invested much if any of his personal money. I believe the opposite is likely true.

The property still has value and the cost is 700K paid out in 10 years.

The value of the property has nothing to do with IP's involvement now - FS is in bankruptcy. It's actually $7m paid out in 10 years, or $700k per year for 10 years (minimum).

[seeedgar]

So, if and when the sale to PF occurs, is the purchase price of @24 mil used to split up between the secured creditors through the BK court??

[Mezcalfud]

Prairie Fire--- more like Dumpster Fire! I am disappointed that IP is even part of the conversation!

[Snoopy47]

Originally Posted by seeedgar

So, if and when the sale to PF occurs, is the purchase price of @24 mil used to split up between the secured creditors through the BK court??

I'm guessing the $24M number is the number defaulted on.

So I'm also guessing that it's up to the creditors to accept the PF offer (which is probably something south of $24M, because I can't imagine that entirety of the business model and property/equipment is WORTH $24M) or to just accept the fact creditors will have to acquire the assets themselves and divest them the best they can to recoup what they can get.

It's probably up to the courts and creditors to decide the veracity of the PF offer.

Right now, we have an article from "PewPewTactical" as a media outlet as the source of what is going on. So far, all they have give us is the bankruptcy is $24M, not disclose a buy price offer from PF to the Creditors, nor if that offer has been accepted and approved by the creditors or the courts.

All I see is a bunch of social media hype pushed out to a bunch of key board gun forum rangers with essentially no verification.

My money is on the whole thing being a pie in the sky publicity push by PF and FS that in the end doesn't fool the court or the creditors.

[damon1272]

As the PF is too expensive for the location and traveling, and with IP being just a PoS. I would rather see it all just go down.

[Matt P]

All interesting counter points citizen.
So why align/employ/have consulting with IP and pay him anything?
After all IP basically drove it to where it is today.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by Matt P

Hopefully Doctor Chicago or other will come in here and explain that agreement document.
I am reading that IPs specific role shall basically be at the discretion of PF. This includes attempts to send out emails.
PF made it clear he is not a agent of their company/business.

So IP would not be a employee of PF. Being a consultant doesn’t necessarily mean a employee.

Reads like this paid position for IP is a good faith measure to complete a transition.
My take is this agreement would be the price for IP to release control.

Despite all that has happened it may not be so easy to dismiss IPs investment into that property. The property still has value and the cost is 700K paid out in 10 years.
I am sure IP is under no illusion about what his actual involvement will be.

I am not seeing any back tracking by PF. Just a willingness to make the take over happen.

Sure, but it's also disingenuous when PF says Piazza will not be involved in any shape or form, then the "consulting" part is made public. They're already starting off with a massive lie and this should be a major red flag fir anyone remotely interested in taking any classes there and contributing to this place at all. I was thinking about checking it out at some point during the two year free membership for existing FS members (and that's if the offer goes through) but if Piazza is involved in any way at all, and it doesn't matter if he's an employee, consultant, etc., I'll have no part in it and hope it crashes a burns.

PF seems almost desperate to get that property and get this thing off the ground at any means necessary. I mean, why the heck would they even agree to that affiliation with Piazza knowing that he is so hated in the community and is a fraud and a liar? None of this makes sense and I do not see PF surviving in Pahrump with the current business plan they are proposing.

[steelciocc]

Originally Posted by Mezcalfud

Prairie Fire--- more like Dumpster Fire! I am disappointed that IP is even part of the conversation!

Agreed, PrarieFire is looking more and more like DumpsterFire. Unfortunate : (

[NorthBay Shooter]

Anyone that takes over a business wants as much knowledge transfer as possible. If they can get the previous management to stay on to provide that KT along with helping some of the employees to stay with the new venture it's a bonus. The best way to make that happen is to pay the previous management to stay. That is what they did with IP. I think 10 years is way too long. Most of the times I see this done, it is for 2-3 years. Additionally, it is normally done with some type of incentive structure (like stock options) or a bonus based on target milestones. From the stuff that has been posted, that does not seem to be the case. If that part is true, meaning they just pay IP x$ per year for 10 years, they are very stupid.

[Snoopy47]

So I'm dangerously curious what happens if I take one of those Prairie Fire Rank targets to the range and upload the result.

If I had a burner phone and e-mail I'd probably do it.

[Mezcalfud]

If IP is in then BA has to be too- maybe the HR director?

[Mustard]

I'd bet you could find 7 current/ former FS employees familiar enough with the daily operations and pay them $100k a pop, and they'd jump on it and run the place properly

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter

Anyone that takes over a business wants as much knowledge transfer as possible. If they can get the previous management to stay on to provide that KT along with helping some of the employees to stay with the new venture it's a bonus. The best way to make that happen is to pay the previous management to stay. That is what they did with IP. I think 10 years is way too long. Most of the times I see this done, it is for 2-3 years. Additionally, it is normally done with some type of incentive structure (like stock options) or a bonus based on target milestones. From the stuff that has been posted, that does not seem to be the case. If that part is true, meaning they just pay IP x$ per year for 10 years, they are very stupid.

It's because of previous management (Piazza and Ackman) why Front Sight failed.

I could see keeping a lot of the staff onboard, but Piazza and Ackman would have to go.

[seeedgar]

I call it an intentional failure.
He played and planned his exit somewhat the way it has played out. COVID helped him out and I feel the defaulting of the LVDF loan and the BK was also intentional.
I don't believe for a second he ever intended to build out beyond the current ranges and what exists now. Never did!!

[surferbum]

Pursuant to Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure 7030 and 9014(c), the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors for the bankruptcy estate of Front Sight Management LLC (the “Committee”), will conduct the deposition of Ignatius A. Piazza (the “Deponent”) on November 11, 2022, at the hour of 9:00 a.m. PST., via [zoom video conference.] On the date and time set for the examination, please use the following information to join:


Join Zoom Meeting:
https://kelleydrye.zoom.us/j/2128085...BmQjFVak9jdz09



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