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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #1  
Old 11-29-2022, 12:08 PM
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Default There Is No Such Thing As 'Herd Immunity.' Really? You Don't Mean It...

There is no such thing as 'herd immunity.' Why the ongoing dangers of COVID-19 are real...

Quote:
...Thus, testing, masking, avoiding indoor crowded settings along with keeping vaccinations and boosters up to date are the best strategies we have to stay safe during times of high viral spread. These strategies will also work with the seasonal flu and, with the exception of not having a RSV vaccine, will also help to protect against RSV, which is filling our pediatric hospitals. Above all, we need to have clear and comprehensive public health messaging. We must be willing to make a few compromises in the way we live, for the safety of others and ourselves.
I think sd_shooter summed it up back in January...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd_shooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman
<snip>

Another useful paper I came across reasons about reinfection by analogy to other coronaviruses, and it predicts that SARS-CoV-2 will become a seasonal virus, ultimately infecting everyone, but ultimately becoming no more dangerous than other coronaviruses as we all acquire immunity. Total immunity and eradication of the virus is just not expected. This, too, makes sense to me.
Yes, but the powers-that-be have always sold the vaccination program as the "only way to herd immunity."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fauci-c...ine-infection/

Quote:
As more Americans get infected with COVID-19, Dr. Anthony Fauci said the country could reach a level of population immunity in which the virus is no longer "dominating" people's lives.

"That's entirely conceivable, and likely, as a matter of fact," President Biden's chief medical advisor said Tuesday on "CBS Mornings."

His remarks come as the U.S. faces a major spike of infections ahead of the holidays, with nearly 930,000 new cases over the last seven days. The highly transmissible Omicron has now become the dominant variant in the country, accounting for 73% of new cases.


But Fauci said the surge should not stop vaccinated and boosted Americans from celebrating the holidays in small family settings. He also shared an encouraging outlook on the future of the pandemic.

"We are not going to be in a situation of this degree of intensity indefinitely, for sure," he said. "We are hoping when we get through this Omicron wave that we will have enough people vaccinated and/or having been infected and recovered well that there will be a degree of immunity in the community such as that you don't have a situation where it is dominating your life. We hope we get there soon."

To get to that level, Fauci said, "we first have to get to the 50 million or so people who are eligible to be vaccinated who are not vaccinated."
Of course, he also noted over a year ago... 'Medical community' realizes covid will never go away, herd immunity impossible.

Then again, nine months before that... VERIFY: Changes to WHO's definition of herd immunity haven't been 'secret'...

Quote:
...The WHO has changed their definition of herd immunity on their COVID-19 page over the course of the year.

But it hasn’t been done in secret. They’ve explained why they’ve made such changes whenever updates are made. And the organization's website specifically says that the information on the page could change and evolve over time...

So yes, the WHO changed the definition for herd immunity on one of their Q&A pages. But no, it wasn’t a secret. It explained why it changed the definition and mentioned it in a media briefing. The WHO says the answers and definitions on that page will change with time. And recently, they brought back their original definition to help further explain why they’re now focusing on vaccinations for herd immunity.
In other words, once again, there have been on-going changes to traditionally defined terms (including vaccine/vaccination, herd immunity, etc.) so that a particular narrative is not 'contradicted.' Or, as I said in another thread: Simply interpretation and spin magnified as "we" know, "they" don't, listen to us. As I said in April 2021...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
Given the way these types of viruses mutate, I don't think we will never have complete immunity. If you get a cold or the flu that doesn't prevent you from getting it again. Your immunity isn't the same as that you get from measles, mumps, chickenpox or via vaccination for polio. Hell, even having chickenpox puts you at risk of shingles later in life. The issue will be whether or not this virus's mutations will weaken it sufficiently to not be as big an issue with the elderly and infirm - though I suspect that many elderly with comorbidities who died with COVID would not have survived the common flu either.
^^^ This is the most likely scenario as we currently understand the virus or, more accurately, as we are told the understanding exists.

Remember, we're only a little over a year into this thing. It's a relative of the flu/cold virus. How long have we been seeking "heard immunity" to those?

The reality is that when you have 7.8 billion, unique members of the 'herd,' you are left with myriad possibilities and potentialities...

Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
...In real reality, of course, there are very many individual factors. People are not a single herd, but a superposition of many herds. The environment has a huge, time-varying impact, as does our health and especially our behavior.
This is particularly true when it comes to the United States. We aren't simply a 'herd within the herd.' We have representative samples from virtually every part of the universal herd. Now, add in our unique culture of individual freedoms/liberties. The result? We have the potential to see/experience many/most of the possibilities and potentialities.

So... Is true herd immunity...
  • Impossible? Maybe.
  • Unlikely? Probably.
  • Attainable at this 'early' a point in the viruses evolution? Not likely.
  • Possible? I'm more in the camp of herd resistance (rather than immunity) being achievable, at least for now.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2022, 3:46 PM
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Pissed yet?
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Old 11-29-2022, 4:06 PM
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Well what would you expect from a Fauci created virus. I mean he represents science and all that bunk.
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Old 11-29-2022, 4:14 PM
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Pissed yet?
I’ve been pissed since it started. Wasn’t allowed to visit an old friend in April of 2020 that was admitted to hospice care as he died from colon cancer.

Ya know, out of an abundance of caution…
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Old 11-29-2022, 4:22 PM
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Doubling down on stupid
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2022, 6:48 PM
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WHO needs to go!
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Old 11-29-2022, 6:51 PM
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Fauci should be tried for mass murder. Instead he's the highest paid government employee and gets kick backs from big pharma.
This world is so broken and corrupt.
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Old 11-29-2022, 7:41 PM
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Is the science “settled” or not?
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Old 11-29-2022, 8:44 PM
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"Heard immunity" can potentially prevent an initial outbreak, but you're not going to achieve heard immunity from a fast mutating virus which already has a large number of separately evolving branches.

They were lying about heard immunity, and they knew they were lying. But just like the vilification of Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, etc, it was yet another lie to fool people into getting the vaccine.
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Old 11-29-2022, 9:30 PM
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Dr. Kavanaugh, the guy who wrote the OP article is a professional covid hand wringer. Check out other propaganda he has written. It seem to be a retirement hobby business.

https://muckrack.com/kevin-kavanagh/articles

I did not check in to who pays him. My guess would be that he shills for the DNC and other far left organizations. I see he is published in some serious and some not serious publications.

His article is founded on the idea that covid is still a serious health threat. That is a lie. All the rest of the nonsense is a straw argument that is built on a lie. It is a house of cards. He seems to be most interested in the cultivation of fear. Fear is used to control people. Unless he is working for the marxists trying to create a tyrannical USA why would he do that? He is a retired doctor, me must know the truth. IF he does not he is a retired incompetent doctor.

And of course heard immunity is real. Covid is now not dangerous and we have all been exposed. It is weaker now and spreads easier. If it were as virulent as the Wuhan and spread easily, many of us would be dead.

Writing such an article is not a big deal. Opinion pieces, which it is, holds no weight. They are not peer reviewed. It is a way for people like this to build a resume out of thin air. Criminal defense experts do it all the time. Opinion pieces like this are not real scientific information.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:11 PM
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Pissed yet?
I was pissed at "two weeks to flatten the curve".
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Old 11-30-2022, 7:57 AM
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COVID create more mental disorder than any other events in modern days! We see it every day by driving cars and next car to yours people drive alone with mask on! We can list 10000000 different examples of this mental disorder symptoms.
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Old 11-30-2022, 8:02 AM
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Covid was very revealing at how many 2 digit IQ's are out there when I saw people wearing masks while driving alone or out riding a bicycle.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tango_Down View Post
Covid was very revealing at how many 2 digit IQ's are out there when I saw people wearing masks while driving alone or out riding a bicycle.
And easier to see how blind trust creates tyranny. Those that remained rationally skeptical were demonized, cancelled and shunned, many only to be proven correct later and those in official positions were actually the ones with “misinformation”.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tango_Down View Post
Covid was very revealing at how many 2 digit IQ's are out there when I saw people wearing masks while driving alone or out riding a bicycle.
I saw a woman driving alone in her car, wearing a mask and gloves. This was just 4 days ago, not 2 years ago.
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Old 11-30-2022, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
I was pissed at "two weeks to flatten the curve".
You are doubting the two weeks part?
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
And easier to see how blind trust creates tyranny. Those that remained rationally skeptical were demonized, cancelled and shunned, many only to be proven correct later and those in official positions were actually the ones with “misinformation”.
It's mind boggling to me how many people (even close friends) that I know who are rational, logical, smart people who ate this crap up without even questioning it.

Some of them have sobered up and realize they've been duped, but lots are still all in.
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Old 12-05-2022, 3:09 AM
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It's mind boggling to me how many people (even close friends) that I know who are rational, logical, smart people who ate this crap up without even questioning it.

Some of them have sobered up and realize they've been duped, but lots are still all in.
All my colleagues ate it up (company of 100k people.) Everyone has an MS or PhD, so they're ostensibly intelligent.
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Old 12-05-2022, 5:40 PM
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All my colleagues ate it up (company of 100k people.) Everyone has an MS or PhD, so they're ostensibly intelligent.
Graduate degrees are not a sign of intelligence. They indicate an ability to work or work within a given system. In and of themselves, when coupled with a $5 bill, they will get you a cheap cup of coffee.

The IQ test for a PhD student is the assemblage of their dissertation committee.

The IQ test for a PhD holder is... Well, let's just say I've known quite a few PhD holders and there have only been a very few I'd rely on for directions to the Men's Room (especially these days), let alone instruction on anything more complicated.

As my Grandfather used to like chiding me... You are smart and have a good education, but you sure lack common sense. I'm still not sure he wasn't right all along.
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