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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 07-09-2017, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
The problem with an RV is they are fairly expensive for what you get. A decent used RV is going to set me back 20-50k. It's still not secure, and there's a chance of it being completely stolen. I'm thinking I'd rather show up to a broken in container or cabin with not much to be stolen rather than a missing RV.

But it might turn out to be the better option if permits turn out to be too much of a hassle.
Sorry for the confusion. I wrote rv but was referring to a trailer type.
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  #42  
Old 07-09-2017, 6:33 PM
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Dig in, drop the container into the ground. Few feet of soil makes a heck of a diff with heat. Or if you have a back stop anywhere dig into the side . Then invite us all over.
Yup. And I can also check in on it for you if you let me barrow it to do some astronomy once in a while on new moon time. I heard Borrego has some nice dark skies.

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  #43  
Old 07-09-2017, 8:31 PM
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View looking south. Any suggestions on removing all the shrubs?

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  #44  
Old 07-09-2017, 8:47 PM
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Borrego Springs has some rules on how much land you can clear. You will want to check on that. I don't remember what it is, but I remember some guy had to pay some fines for clearing out his entire lot.
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  #45  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:13 PM
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View looking south. Any suggestions on removing all the shrubs?

Fire or mezicans.....

JK. Build a box from 2x4, wrap and secure chain link on one side. Attach weights on all four corners. Drag that puppy all over.

If you have access to iron for the build, even better.
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  #46  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:02 PM
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Get a travel trailer and insure the hell out of it so if it's stolen no biggie. Make friends with neighbors, it pays off.
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  #47  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:09 PM
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Did Erik Estrada sell you this land?
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  #48  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:26 AM
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Sounds like a fun project.

It is against CA state law to build any permanent structure larger than 120 sqft without a permit I believe. And even if it is 120sqft or less you still need permits to put electrical (and probably plumbing) in it. But you can get around that stuff by keeping it on wheels. I don't know how they deal with shipping containers.

If you do build illegally, don't put too much money into it because they can make you tear it down. And the fines can be very heavy.

If it were me, I'd build a large structure like a car port with no sides and a slightly tilted roof. Park a travel trailer under it. Make the "car port" a couple feet taller than the trailer to allow for good air circulation. Make sure the "car port" is large enough that it will shade the sides of the trailer for almost the entire day. You could also build a deck around one side of the trailer in the shade too. And hook your trailer to a small septic tank.

If it rains enough there the roof of the structure could catch rain, and you could always put up a few solar panels if electricity is a problem.

Security could be a problem, but the nice thing about using a travel trailer is that you can take it away if you want and you can avoid all the building codes.

In CA the idea of property rights is just a quaint outdated right, kinda like the 2nd amendment.
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  #49  
Old 07-10-2017, 7:39 AM
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Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
Get a travel trailer and insure the hell out of it so if it's stolen no biggie. Make friends with neighbors, it pays off.
Looking like the plan. However I like to build things myself so possibly a cargo trailer that I will convert. I still like the idea of putting a container on piers or blocks and then using mock wheels and axles with a tongue up front to appear as a trailer. I don't see why it would have to be a functional trailer but I could be wrong.

The neighbors have some janky overhang build off a 40ft container kinda like the red container that I posted a picture of. Looks like it's been there for a while and 100% guaranteed there is no permit. I might be over thinking this permit thing.

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Did Erik Estrada sell you this land?
No

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Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
Sounds like a fun project.

It is against CA state law to build any permanent structure larger than 120 sqft without a permit I believe. And even if it is 120sqft or less you still need permits to put electrical (and probably plumbing) in it. But you can get around that stuff by keeping it on wheels. I don't know how they deal with shipping containers.

If you do build illegally, don't put too much money into it because they can make you tear it down. And the fines can be very heavy.

This is why I liked the idea of a container over a stick build, if for some reason I was told to remove, a container would be a lot easier to have moved elsewhere, like a friends property rather than destroying a stick built cabin

If it were me, I'd build a large structure like a car port with no sides and a slightly tilted roof. Park a travel trailer under it. Make the "car port" a couple feet taller than the trailer to allow for good air circulation. Make sure the "car port" is large enough that it will shade the sides of the trailer for almost the entire day. You could also build a deck around one side of the trailer in the shade too. And hook your trailer to a small septic tank.


If it rains enough there the roof of the structure could catch rain, and you could always put up a few solar panels if electricity is a problem.

Security could be a problem, but the nice thing about using a travel trailer is that you can take it away if you want and you can avoid all the building codes.

In CA the idea of property rights is just a quaint outdated right, kinda like the 2nd amendment.
All great points. Thanks for the feedback
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  #50  
Old 07-10-2017, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post

It is against CA state law to build any permanent structure larger than 120 sqft without a permit I believe.
Conjecture. Belief does not equal fact. Building code is generally defined at the county level. It is imperative to check locally as to what you can build.

The OP would be wise to takea trip down to the local building department and basically ask "I want to build an inexpensive living quarters on this here piece of land. What are my best options that do not run afoul of building requirements?" He may be pleasantly surprised.
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  #51  
Old 07-10-2017, 9:39 AM
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Conjecture. Belief does not equal fact. Building code is generally defined at the county level. It is imperative to check locally as to what you can build.

The OP would be wise to takea trip down to the local building department and basically ask "I want to build an inexpensive living quarters on this here piece of land. What are my best options that do not run afoul of building requirements?" He may be pleasantly surprised.
I feel like this word would limit me. I will not be living in this structure. what defines a structure for living?
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  #52  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:17 AM
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I feel like this word would limit me. I will not be living in this structure. what defines a structure for living?
I agree. My thoughts on permitting is to permit the structure and after its signed off you can do what you want with it. Think shed...
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  #53  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:46 AM
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I feel like this word would limit me. I will not be living in this structure. what defines a structure for living?
Pretty sure it's plumbing and maybe electrical.

We looked at a short sale a while back. The garage was being built with a full on unapproved apartment above. But all the plumbing and electric was drywalled over. The said it was "storage" space. BS.

My last comments here are based on a contractor that built some handicap accessible cottages with our Rotary club.

He built one traditional that cost over $150,000 with nothing but permitting headaches. Total time to open was over a year.

He built 3 others using 490 sq ft manufactured homes that were registered as vehicles. No permits. Done in 3 months for about $50,000 each.

None of the manufactured cottages had wheel or axles after install. I'm pretty sure that's not necessary. But they all had DMV "tags".

Bottom line from him. If your "vehicle" is less than 500 sq ft and has tags YGTG.
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  #54  
Old 07-10-2017, 2:17 PM
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I feel like this word would limit me. I will not be living in this structure. what defines a structure for living?
According to UBC[Uniform Building Code], now called IBC [International Building Code] that would be amenities for food preparation.

Simply look at the "legal structural" differences between a garage and a dwelling.

"therealnickb" said,

Quote:
Pretty sure it's plumbing and maybe electrical.
Nope, well, kinda sorta yes. Depends on what "type plumbing and electrical".

Assuming all work is permitted and the county knows about it. Borrego Springs is not a "City" and does not have "Codes". It is unincorporated county. So County Codes apply.

Garage/outbuildings can have a washer and dryer, and a bathroom with shower. Garage can have a hot water heater. To supply the washing machine and bath. It can also have a structurally approved heating system. Garage can have a refer/freezer. Garage can also have AC if you want. Any finished walled section of a "garage" is classified as "storage".

All these acceptable garage amenities require plumbing and electrical.

But as soon as you install a Kitchen type sink, and a residential stove in a garage. You made an unauthorized "DWELLING".

A laundry tub type sink adjacent to the washer hook up doesn't count as "kitchen" amenity. A portable micro-wave doesn't count. But a "built in" microwave does. A "Camp Stove" not hooked to a structural gas line. Is also just a camp stove in a garage.

If inspector questions why a 50 amp 240 outlet? Answer is "Arc Welder" not electric stove.

I'm a retired Carpenter with 30 yrs experience in residential construction.

Stilts and land clearing codes, if applicable, is likely due to the fact that the Army Corp of Engineers designated all of Borrego Valley a "Flood Plain" several years ago.

JM2c
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  #55  
Old 07-10-2017, 4:26 PM
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I feel like this word would limit me. I will not be living in this structure. what defines a structure for living?
Dude go the county planning department with a dozen donuts and pick their brains. Planners are people too, most want to help. Tell them what you want and ask them the best way to get there.
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2017, 8:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in California View Post
Conjecture. Belief does not equal fact. Building code is generally defined at the county level. It is imperative to check locally as to what you can build.

The OP would be wise to takea trip down to the local building department and basically ask "I want to build an inexpensive living quarters on this here piece of land. What are my best options that do not run afoul of building requirements?" He may be pleasantly surprised.
Nice but that is what I was told by the City of Danville. My equivocation is based on the parameters for a 120 sqft structure. Height and size vs. simple sqft. Example: a 30ft long by 4 ft wide structure 20ft tall.

The 120sqft limit is universal, if you check the different Counties they all say the same (in the samples I checked). You can get a variance, but Counties really really don't like to do that.

Let me give you a reference:

http://buildingincalifornia.com/building-department/

https://michaelreiterlaw.wordpress.c...ilding-permit/

If you've ever dealt with the Local City or County planners you'd know that going down there is the last thing you want to do unless you already know you are going to need to permit. Once they know you are going to make improvements they will watch you.
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2017, 8:04 PM
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Just a little update. Finally been able to get out to the property a handful of times since it’s not 100+ in the desert anymore. Spent the majority of my time hacking, digging, raking all the trees, bushes and cactus. Found a local resident to the area with a tractor to come in and grade the lot for dirt cheap which is awesome. The guy works a bit slow and equipment is a bit dated, slowing the process down with repairs...but it’s cheap. Got about 3/5ths the lots cleared and smoothed so far.

So I’ve decided to build a small cabin like structure(basically a big shed) built to house standards and code but within permitless requirements. The cabin will be big enough for a set of bunkbeds, couch, counter with residential sized sink for food prep, and a 12v fridge that I can leave plugged in to a solar panel while not at the property. Will most likely install a Window AC and do electric heaters for warmth. This structure will be temporary camping quarters till I figure out something larger, like containers which although not technically allowed, almost every lot in the area has them. Talking to neighbors has proven that permits are not an issue in the area. Either way once the larger structure gets built I will use this smaller one as a utility shed to house miscellaneous things.

Progress today was getting the gravel foundation laid. Lots of manual labor moving dirt with a shovel and wheelbarrow but the rest should come quickly. Here’s where I left off.

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Old 12-03-2017, 8:39 PM
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Looks good. All I can say is, seal everything as well as possible. You don't want rodents getting in, and they are super good at gnawing into things, so good luck. I suggest a complete steel box.
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Old 12-03-2017, 9:04 PM
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Great job OP. Continue to update us as you go. I am clueless about building structures...love learning from this forum. Thanks again and stay safe out there.
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  #60  
Old 12-04-2017, 7:51 AM
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Check out propane. It might be your best bet for refrigeration and probably your only option for heat...you will still need the generator for the A/C.
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  #61  
Old 12-04-2017, 8:04 AM
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Check out propane. It might be your best bet for refrigeration and probably your only option for heat...you will still need the generator for the A/C.
Ditto on the propane. I get about one month's use out of our 25 ft trailer with two larger tanks and you'll have a way to make ice.
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Old 12-04-2017, 8:04 AM
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Belief does not equal fact.
Well there goes the internet.
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  #63  
Old 12-04-2017, 8:32 AM
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Talking to neighbors has proven that permits are not an issue in the area.
Don't undertake any unpermitted improvements that you are not ready, willing, and able to undo.

The county could start enforcing tomorrow.
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  #64  
Old 12-04-2017, 10:07 AM
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Don't undertake any unpermitted improvements that you are not ready, willing, and able to undo.

The county could start enforcing tomorrow.
Highly unlikely. The only real downside to not pulling permits comes when it's time to sell or if you try to insure it. Even if you sell it that way as long as the buyer is willing to accept it as such it's not an issue because I've bought and sold property with work that wasn't done by permit. We're talking about stuff in the middle of nowhere here, it's not like doing an un-permitted structure in Rancho Cucamonga or something, they're not going to start rounding up trailers and storage container creations in Borrego in our lifetime.
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Old 12-04-2017, 8:51 PM
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Highly unlikely. The only real downside to not pulling permits comes when it's time to sell or if you try to insure it. Even if you sell it that way as long as the buyer is willing to accept it as such it's not an issue because I've bought and sold property with work that wasn't done by permit. We're talking about stuff in the middle of nowhere here, it's not like doing an un-permitted structure in Rancho Cucamonga or something, they're not going to start rounding up trailers and storage container creations in Borrego in our lifetime.
This.

They literally would have to tell a couple hundred people to empty their lots because almost everyone has a 40ft conex box or two. I’m not dumping loads of cash on this, it’s Just a small cabin project that’s fun to work on during the weekends and I can shoot up to 1000 yards from my front porch

I assume anyone that would be willing to buy in the area will have the same mind set and probably not care too much either.

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Originally Posted by luckylogger6 View Post
Check out propane. It might be your best bet for refrigeration and probably your only option for heat...you will still need the generator for the A/C.
Just saw 100# tanks at Lowe’s for $109. Will definitely be using propane for miscellaneous items if not just the dual fuel generator. Cabin lights, water pump for sink, and 12v fridge will be fed from a couple solar panels on the roof, anything with higher wattage (microwave, portable radiant heater, ac, tv) will pull from the generator


Anyone have experience with composting toilets?
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  #66  
Old 12-05-2017, 8:10 AM
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Anyone have experience with composting toilets?
Only experience is they run about a grand? how about a simple septic. Sandy soils leach well (too well), are there any wells, ground water/creeks to worry about contaminating? my guess is no so only issue is packing in water. Maybe you can buy water from a neighbor with a well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVDEQeptPQ

For the propane, we can run our home off a 5 gal BBQ cylinder for a week with a propane dryer, water heater, stove. So probably no need for a big cylinder unless you are heating with propane.
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Old 12-05-2017, 9:09 AM
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I know we all hate Elon Musk, plenty of reasons to... but I have to tell you that new powerwall is going to be a game changer when it comes to off-grid electrical especially for part timers in the desert etc.

Post pics of your place OP, I love that kind of stuff. My cousin had a very similar place in Ocatillo Wells. He bought an old motorhome for CHEAP and took the wheels off it and turned it into a prepper desert rat gun ATV kinda house. He's on 2.5 acres I think, there are nuts like him (us?) surrounding him and there's not building department to be seen. He's added a covered patio carport kinda thing... a shed or two.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:15 AM
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Only experience is they run about a grand? how about a simple septic. Sandy soils leach well (too well), are there any wells, ground water/creeks to worry about contaminating? my guess is no so only issue is packing in water. Maybe you can buy water from a neighbor with a well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVDEQeptPQ

For the propane, we can run our home off a 5 gal BBQ cylinder for a week with a propane dryer, water heater, stove. So probably no need for a big cylinder unless you are heating with propane.
Dang a grand? I’ve seen the nice self contained. units with heater elements and powered cranks but I was thinking more like a bucket with peet moss thrown on top. Lol. I estimate 5-8 craps a month out there on average. So let’s say on the high ended 120 craps a year. Don’t think I need that big of a system?


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I know we all hate Elon Musk, plenty of reasons to... but I have to tell you that new powerwall is going to be a game changer when it comes to off-grid electrical especially for part timers in the desert etc.

Post pics of your place OP, I love that kind of stuff. My cousin had a very similar place in Ocatillo Wells. He bought an old motorhome for CHEAP and took the wheels off it and turned it into a prepper desert rat gun ATV kinda house. He's on 2.5 acres I think, there are nuts like him (us?) surrounding him and there's not building department to be seen. He's added a covered patio carport kinda thing... a shed or two.
I follow a A guy on YouTube that is building a offgrid homestead and did a series about the Tesla power wall. They were having issues setting up an installation date so the guy just bought a used battery pack out of a wrecked Tesla and used his own solar componets. Turned out awesome, but honestly I don’t think I’m going to need that much juice. 1000w max in solar and a couple deep cycle batteries should be efficient.


I’m only on a half acre, not much to take pictures of yet, just looks like bare flat desert for the most part right now. I’ll be posting a bunch of pics as progress continues
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  #69  
Old 12-08-2017, 5:12 PM
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Shipping container, with open steel building frame with roof over it for shade. Should reduce the insulation requirement on the container. And adhere to building codes and permits.
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  #70  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:36 PM
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Save the money and get. 4 door 4x4 truck. Sleep
In the bed


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Old 02-20-2019, 9:51 PM
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Had to start a new thread since my last one got locked due to inactivity. If anyone one wants to refer back to what I’m doing/building here is the original thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...o+springs+land

//
// Old thread and new one merged - Librarian
//

Finally made some progress worth sharing. Was hard to get out to work on the cabin from May to October due to high heat. Even on days that were only in the 90s, I had to consider my dog who is always with me and struggles in anything over 80 (Boxer).

When it finally cooled down I was able to crank out some work and get the basic structure built and mostly weather tight. The whole process was a lot more work than I would have liked purely because of hauling out materials and planning for how much I could get done in a weekend with out leaving raw lumber/materials just sitting in the middle of the desert. Almost all the work was done by myself with the exception of lifting the walls and a helping hand every now and then from my brother.

Mistakes were made, lessons learned, Wood warped from drastic changes in weather making building a square and plumb structure frustrating. Albeit, I’m happy with it so far and there’s still a bunch of work to do but I don’t feel as stressed to get the rest done and can slow down a bit. I guess it’s a common feeling when building a shelter to rush and get it “dried in” so the elements don’t ruin things.

Anyways, here’s where I’m at with my little get away cabin and some pics of the process.















I spent about 9 hours straight in 105 degree temp in the middle of June, in the desert with no one around to help if I got heat stroke or fell from exhaustion. Looking back on it, was probably one of the more stupid things I’ve done. I don’t envy roofers one bit!







So this is where I stand right now. Just finished running Romex 12/2 wiring for 5 outlets, 4 interior lights and 4 exterior lights (2 in back and 2 in front which will go up in the soffit). I still need to put in the electrical breaker panel and figure out how I’m going to feed the line from the generator. I’ll get some pics of the electrical setup next weekend when I head out again.

Also hoping to get insulation in next weekend. Not sure if I want to use Roxul or pink fiberglass batts. Any suggestions? Trying to find the best insulation method to provide relief from the brutal desert sun and sound proofing from all the dirt bikes, buggy’s, and my generator.

I have the window and need to pop it in but high winds have prevented me from being able to work with sticky flashing tape.

Still can’t decide on siding material either.

Any comments or suggestions welcome!

Last edited by Librarian; 02-27-2019 at 3:46 PM..
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Old 02-21-2019, 7:03 AM
luckylogger6 luckylogger6 is offline
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To energize your electric panel wire an appropriate sized (amps) outlet off the main breaker and make a male-male extension cord to plug into your generator and the feeder outlet. Then you can unplug the generator and cord when your not there.
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Old 02-21-2019, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylogger6 View Post
To energize your electric panel wire an appropriate sized (amps) outlet off the main breaker and make a male-male extension cord to plug into your generator and the feeder outlet. Then you can unplug the generator and cord when your not there.
Not a big fan of using a “dead mans” cable. Even though I’m not connected to grid and back feeding isn’t an issue, the risk of fire and shock go way up.

They have male recepticles that are specifically made for situations like mine. Planing on using something like this in a weather proof junction box on one of the exterior walls by the panel.



Then I’ll run appropriate sized wire to panel to feed the rest of the outlets, switches and lights.

My generator is only 110v. When I get a larger gen set that has 240v I will most likely build a generator shed with a transfer box and dig a trench to run buried conduit to the cabin and into the main panel.

Electrical wiring is no joke and the use of generator power is more confusing than I thought when you start dealing with neutral/ground bonding in either the generator or panel? Ground rod at generator or at panel? Lots of good info online but I’m not 100% so I will most likely hire a certified electrician to check my work when I’m done to make sure no one is hurt or killed.
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Old 02-21-2019, 9:38 AM
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That looks like a very fun project. Is the structure strapped to the ground somehow for high wind gusts or earthquake?
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:21 AM
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That looks like a very fun project. Is the structure strapped to the ground somehow for high wind gusts or earthquake?
We had 50mph gust all last weekend and nothing budged so I’m hoping wind isn’t a problem. The structure is super sturdy and over built so hopefully it’s own weight will keep it in place and it’s only going to get heavier from here on out. Earthquakes are a concern and I’m still looking at practical ways to anchor the building. Guy wires were my first thought but I don’t want the tripping hazard. I figure any earthquake major enough to make the building fall over is going to cause damage regardless. I just don’t want a smaller quake making the cabin shift around on its piers
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:32 AM
WOODY2 WOODY2 is offline
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I would suggest using a buried ground anchor on each side, it's cheap insurance. If you think building it a chore just imagine trying to right it back onto the piers.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:54 AM
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Lol. If it fell over I’ll have a big camp fire and get a trailer

Last edited by AK5.56; 02-21-2019 at 10:54 AM.. Reason: Bad grammar
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AK5.56 View Post
We had 50mph gust all last weekend and nothing budged so I’m hoping wind isn’t a problem. The structure is super sturdy and over built so hopefully it’s own weight will keep it in place and it’s only going to get heavier from here on out. Earthquakes are a concern and I’m still looking at practical ways to anchor the building. Guy wires were my first thought but I don’t want the tripping hazard. I figure any earthquake major enough to make the building fall over is going to cause damage regardless. I just don’t want a smaller quake making the cabin shift around on its piers
I hear what you're saying but you should still consider that every once in a decade wind storm and of course the "big one" when it comes. It would be nice to have your shed still standing if you truly needed to bug out of the urban area. I would think that some cable or chain on the corners set in a round hole filled with concrete should make a suitable anchor.

I just finished building a house in a remote setting and put some effort into building to resist that once in 50 or 100 year wind event. It didn't add much to the project and gives me peace of mind knowing my house will take what mother nature throws at it.

As for siding, how about Hardy Plank siding. You know, the cement based planks that look like rough sawn wood planks. That should take the sun and the heat better than wood.
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Old 02-21-2019, 1:28 PM
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Will definitely look into anchors!

Was originally going to do cedar shingles for siding but looks difficult to install and will also take a beating from the sun. I think your correct with either a cement or vinyl board to side with. Simple and will last!
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Old 02-25-2019, 8:11 AM
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Hardie Plank siding for sure...

Last edited by luckylogger6; 02-25-2019 at 8:24 AM..
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