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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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#761
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Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#764
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So to make a long, angry, sob story short, I'll try to make this brief!
Opticsplanet screwed me over. After suggestions from this thread, I went ahead and ordered a Shellback Tactical Banshee from them back in early April when it was on sale for $154. At the time it said 14-21 day delivery time and that was not a big deal. A week later it shows discontinued. Fast forward 3 months - Opticsplanet cancels my order after reassuring me that I'd receive mine "any week now" for the past 4 months. I have it all documented but they say it's now discontinued. I've been in contact with Shellback and it's not the case... Anyway now that there are no sales, I don't want to spend $100 more for one. My use is to have in case SHTF (obviously) but I want to use it each month with my plates for conditioning during hikes and runs. I hike with gear on and want a rig that won't rip apart like the foreign made ones. But seeing as how I'm not LEO/MIL/High speed operator, I can't justify a high dollar plate carrier that's overkill for my stated needs. As a cheaper alternative, I've been considering a Shellback Patriot for $184 shipped online. Is there anything you guys recommend at that price point? I really like the fact that Shellback is U.S. made (this is a requirement of mine) and that their customer service and owner were very nice and helpful towards me. I feel like they "deserve" my purchase if that makes sense but am open to hearing any suggestions you have to offer. As a side note, after reading this thread I ended up with AR500 Lightweight level 3+ ASC plates. Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread and shared your info. Take care.
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WTB used AK MFER. |
#765
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#769
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First, AR500 is pretty much obsolete at this point. If you are going steel, Armox Advance (or "AR650/AR1000") is the current standard. It can be made thinner/lighter than AR500 and stop M193 at 3000 fps. Second, the weight difference between steel and ceramic plates is usually only about a pound or so. If you have the scratch to buy extra ceramic plates, then yes, ceramic makes more sense for you. If you need lightweight plates, pure UHMWPE are the way to go. Steel and ceramic are basically the same.
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Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* Last edited by d-r; 09-05-2018 at 8:52 AM.. |
#770
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Probably a dumb question but are you talking about plates made from AR500 steel, or plates made by “AR500”. I was under the impression the company AR500 didn’t use ar500 steel for their plates, and their plates are relatively light for what they are.
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#771
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He means AR500 Steel. Most of them doing III+ are not using "AR500" steel anymore. CATI and others are using harder steel now to get the rating up on M193, because when the new standards come out RF1 covers M193, and I believe to make it to RF2 (M855) your plate must pass RF1.
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#772
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XL SAPI plates in AR1000 weigh 9lbs. Ceramic is quite a bit lighter. My steel plates are old and AR500. They now sit in the closet and my other ceramic carriers are used. Will have to look into UHMWPE plates. Any recommendations?
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#774
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I recommend Midwest Armor Venture FM3+ if you are looking for the current lightest ceramic plate capable of stopping all level 3 threats, along with M193 and M855. It weighs in at 5.2# and 6.9# at medium and XL ESAPI respectively. The standard Venture FM3 is the best lightweight, pure UHMWPE plate available currently, but will not stop M855 (as Buff mentioned, no pure UHMWPE plate will, it has to do with how the round interacts with the material).
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#775
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Veterans MFG IIIA+
Chinese Body Armor Level IV, Militech. I could go either way on trusting armor manufactured in the China. They certainly make a quality product, but there's always that "made in China aspect". I would think if they want to be trusted they would seek out official NIJ certification on their panels to the latest standard. On the flip side, MANY retailers are using Chinese components to make their panels |
#776
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I really have to post about bodyarmor testing after reading this entire- very well written and informative Post.
I was fortunate enough to be asked to tour Safariland’s ballistic testing lab in SoCal this past week. After reading up on the finer points of ballistics, materials, shoot testing, and evaluations on this thread, I was primed and ready to learn the most I could about body armor and everything that goes into this fascinating field. I met up with my tour liaison; the very attractive, 10+ year subject matter expert and Safariland soft armor product manager Nicole, who was gracious enough to set up this tour and was just an absolute professional and pleasure to meet. She introduced me to Safariland’s Ballistic T&E staff of four very knowledgeable and most welcoming team of industry insiders I’ve ever had the fortune to meet. Henry and Jeff were able to pull away to give me the rundown of their duties, while Frank was busy with the reality of what is compiling data from pages of recorded test results and related research for upcoming tasks and testing. Safariland in-house tests (for the most part- some testing occurs off-site) all of their ballistic packages and vest evaluations. From the production runs that must have a portion of pulled and subjected to shoot and stab tests, to the occasional special-project request that will more likely come down from corporate evaluation request, as well as T&E schedules that originate from some of the more esoteric agencies that require their very trusted and highly sought after test and eval work and findings. Saving Lives require thorough and detailed testing of protective ballistics before a single new vest can hit the field, and the myriad of nationwide governmental agencies that require standing post with weapon and body armor know, and as mentioned- trust Safariland’s royal order of ballistic testing experts. Honestly, the sheer volume of information and data these guys go through just could not be covered in totality within my hour long tour, but after asking my slew of curiosity questions about the ABCs of body armor, I began seeing myself in this business with every answer Henry, Nicole, and Jeff had for me. Each one were very versed in their respective fields while drawing from their extensive experience as ballistic vest industry SME’s, as well as their familiarity with firearms and ammunition characteristics. What really became the highlight of my time with these professionals was seeing in person and hearing from their hearts just how much each enjoyed what they do- and the Love they had for doing their part in saving thousands of lives who in turn were dedicated to keeping them safe as well. This tour felt more like a reunion for this ex-law enforcement officer, a get together of long lost friends from the field, who made me feel like an insider amongst insiders again- for this I was forever grateful and indebted. -Pete Last edited by DCH; 10-28-2018 at 7:40 PM.. Reason: Edited for length. |
#779
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Depends on how they deal with crack propagation between the tiles. SiC can be superior to even B4C plates when good design principles are used.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#780
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maybe a bit of a skew off topic, but I've wondered about text books being better than nothing - especially for school kids seemingly carrying multiple books these days - or any other SHTF scenario.
Bulky, yes, but better than nothing...? https://www.concealedcarry.com/safet...-stop-bullets/ |
#781
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To answer your question: yes, books that are thick enough will stop low- and medium velocity handgun rounds. High velocity pistol and rifle bullet won't notice them.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* Last edited by d-r; 11-26-2018 at 11:35 AM.. |
#782
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The chase tactical ar1000 plates state:
Exterior Cover: 1000D Cordura®, Textured Nylon Upgrade Finish: Polyurea ballistic fragment spall and blast coating Rhino Extreme 11-50 FR Does this replace the splatter sleeves that d-r sells or are they still needed?
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#784
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No Idea, i've never tested them. It looks like CT re-brands a lot of Highcom plates. Interesting that their AR1000 is NIJ certified, but since level III only consists of M80, steel stops that without issue. I'd wait for RF1/2 to come out to find the "best" steel armor.
Last edited by Buffman; 12-21-2018 at 5:37 PM.. |
#787
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Well, all the current plates made with Armox Advance will stop both, but "inexpensive" is relative. They will be about four times the price of AR500 plates of similar size.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#788
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__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#789
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Soooo I guess that plastic stuff those dudes sell outside at costamesa crossroads are a no-go then..My dad just bought a 3IIA plastic vest from them for like $160. Guess he's gonna die if he got shot at.. Me personally I got an 10 year old RBR tactical vest I bought from Botach when they were off crenshaw blvd. I also got some Israeli SAPI plates that are heavy AF. I should post pics here.
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A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner" Robert Deniro Last edited by Neil McCauley; 01-30-2019 at 2:01 PM.. |
#790
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Will your dad die if he gets shot at? Well, probably not, if the round hits the armor, and it's not a contact shot. And if the vest wasn't left in a hot car trunk that got above 180 degrees F. But the point is, armor should not have to be treated like delicate china. Aramid-based (woven or wovenate) armor can be left in a car trunk with no worries. Contact shots? No problem. It's a much more suitable material, and it's high time UHMWPE was disqualified for use as soft armor. A good start would be changing the NIJ requirements to mandate a thermal cycle test of 195 degrees for five hours.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#792
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__________________
A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner" Robert Deniro |
#795
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Can you clarify your question? Aramid is good to go, as a plate backer.
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WTB S&W Model 10 or S&W 357 (of various models) 3 or 4" barrel. Stay Safe and Shoot Straight. |
#797
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Aramid= Kevlar/Twaron
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#798
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Any other material, also take a pass. Woven aramid is the ONLY material that you can be certain will still be viable after being used for any length of time. I have personally torture tested 35+ year old woven aramid vests, they are like fine wine, just get better with age.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
#799
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Milk jug plastic melts, and muzzle blast is very hot.
__________________
Need good info on body armor and custom gear? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.com Now on instagram, @drmorgear *Proud, publicly declared American!* |
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