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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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#1
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The Molotov Cocktail, WMD or not ?.
I think not.
Range, 30 yards max and the bottle has to break. Roughly 12 oz of fuel, not a lot of power. Delivery system, person, holding flaming bottle of gas. Its will be necessary to have lots of throwers. Life expectancy of thrower, not very long. There will be ample opportunity to move up in a gang of marauders as a thrower. Go outside and fill several bottles of water up and throw them at your house and on the roof. See how many break. Now try it with your kid shooting a paint ball gun at you. See how many break before you get hit several time by a child laughing his *** off. If you don't have children, mine would love to help. Molotov cocktails are a very effective weapon in urban areas with tall buildings being thrown onto armor and vehicles when they break. It won't be hard to spot a thrower, he will be the guy holding a flaming bottle of gasoline dead from being shot by everyone. I think it might be fun to shoot the guy running towards my home with a flaming bottle just to watch him burn. Just knock him down and let gravity do its thing. Molotov Cocktails are way down the list of things I worry about. A thrower will have a very short career. |
#3
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The glass bottle Molotov is just a delivery system to get fire from point A on to B when thrown by hand. Molotov's the mother of all simple fire starters. Fire is the weapon. Fire burns > burning fuel makes smoke > smoke makes concealment...
I can imagine more effective methods to deliver fire onto flammable targets from behind cover. Examples; Exposed propane/gasoline/diesel tanks would be an inviting target to the orcs & goblins. Shoot the tank with enough rifle > tank leaks > launch flaming arrows into the leak > BOOM! Hell, the tank may just BOOM because it was hit with enough rifle. Gaza strip goblins use kites as delivery systems to get fire into Israel. How tough would it be to lob something heavy from a modified spring loaded clay thrower from behind a big log? Not long range, but could be used from cover. Tactically speaking, if you have to fight the orcs n goblins and a fire at the same time, they have already cut your defending force down by a real number. Depending on how big a fire is. Loosing valuable and much needed resources would be a huge kick in the nuts.
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"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass -- “I didn’t know I was a slave until I found out I couldn’t do the things I wanted.” – Frederick Douglass -- |
#5
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When you are trying to get your kite in the air is there a cease fire ?. Home many people have a propane tank and or a diesel tank close to the house. They blow in the movies, not in real life, they just burn and vent. How big a log will you need and how close will it have to be ?. Tell us how that kite stuff is holding up against the Israeli snipers. How much damage has it done. Bring lots of logs and modified clay throwers with you. |
#6
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No, they don't always just burn and vent. They explode in real life. There is a term for it. BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion). A 20 pound bbq tank can level a house. The same as boiling gasoline in a vehicle tank.
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#7
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At my ranch it will be my rules. We will put steel on target. How many propane tank throwers do you have ?. We will be careful not to park a vehicle close to the house with gas in it also. Really ?. |
#9
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With a rag and or a fuse stuffed in it and then lit. You still are going to need a bunch of throwers. Maybe a couple of those levers you stuff a ball in for your dog. That will work for sure, The huge amount of energy stored in a gasoline filled tennis ball has to be formidable . Really ?.
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#10
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Terrain Always Dictates
...as they used to say at Fort Benning (I expect they still do).
In September in Southern California chaparral after a summer of broken water service, a lit Zippo is a WMD... but you could just use a tracer or API round if you have one laying around. That said, if one looks at how incendiaries are used by the military... well, the US Infantry doesn't use flamethrowers anymore, and if your objective is to set something on fire in a tactical context, then artillery, rockets, or airstrike is the preferred method. We were taught to use the Molotov against armor... this is really only feasible if there is good concealment and is aided by the poor visibility of the crew when buttoned up; i.e. it requires suitable cover fire.
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Get the hell off the beach. Get up and get moving. Follow Me! --Aubrey Newman, Col, 24th INF; at the Battle of Leyte Certainty of death... small chance of success... what are we waiting for? --Gimli, son of Gloin; on attacking the vast army of Mordor Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! --Patrick Henry; Virginia, 1775 |
#12
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As a kid we used the bottom half of a sports bottle with two strips of surgical tubing to make a water balloon launcher. It did take 3 people to use, but I’m sure a rig could be made for one person.
Anyway, we could easily launch 100 yards. Fill a balloon with gas and oil/styrofoam mix, there’s kids’ toys for that. Launch it with a tail tied on that’s on fire. |
#13
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You are going to need a bunch of balloon launchers with fire suits. Lots of them, and several fire extinguishers. You might have better luck shooting the bottles. Aim for the Chimney, there is a hole in the top of it. The roof is metal. |
#14
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So apparently;
*Molotovs don't present a threat to anyone but the thrower/igniter and are NOT a wmd. *see Paris riots du jour. *Propane tanks never explode when super heated. (they only vent higher pressures out of the safety valve and the gas never ignites when that happens, causing other fires) (Our FD had this training all wrong) *Thick logs are few and far between and you need to bring you own to combat. (even in the forest, so you can't just use what you find there) *Improvised weapons are useless. Even tho military training manuals show how to build/employ them. (conseding the non-existence of a spring loaded clay thrower that is impossible to modify to throw something other than a clay, but if you build it be sure to build lots of them) *Fire kites don't cause much damage. Israel sees these as a minimal threat requiring IDF to take steps to stop them via snipers. (Israel's fire fighting capability is very good btw)
__________________
"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass -- “I didn’t know I was a slave until I found out I couldn’t do the things I wanted.” – Frederick Douglass -- |
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#16
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#17
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Many folks make the fatal mistake of believing that stuffing a rag in a bottle of gas is an operational molotov cocktail.
It is not. It is a suicide device as the lit rag sets off the gas while in your hand. There is a proper way to do it. Learn how and save yourself.
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^^ Said by some lunatic on the internet |
#18
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#19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0jtD_OWLU
Well it seems like after they heated a propane tank with a 1 inch pipe open propane torch and heated it till it melted the tank it did explode. I'm thinking a Molotov cocktail has considerable less heat than that. I saw hundreds of tanks burned in the Rim fire, we lost hundreds of homes and never saw a exploded tank. That fire had a little more heat than a gallon of gas. |
#20
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A good friend of mine lived in Paradise. His home and garage burned to the ground, melted a car & a motorcycle, there were 8 propane tanks in the garage - and they all were still in tact. You could probably get the fumes in an empty tank to explode with enough effort, but if a wildfire didn't explode a full tank there's not much that will.
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#22
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So far we have : Flaming arrows
Modified clay's thrower Kites Flaming Tennis Balls Balloon slingshot tosser Propane tanks can and will blow up by hitting them with enough rifle fire and Molotov Cocktails. These absurd examples are in fact a perfect example of why a Molotov Cocktail makes such a poor weapon for just about everything except a urban setting with tall buildings. If this is your plan of attack you need to rethink it. |
#23
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#25
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Not...
__________________
______________________________________ "And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time." (United States v. Miller (1939)) "It is too often the case in political concerns that men state facts not as they are, but as they wish them to be...." (Federal Farmer#1) |
#26
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I suppose any fire starter can be an effective WMD in dry windy California conditions.
Wipe out thousands of homes with a bic lighter, if the conditions are right. Want to take out a home? Just light a fire a few miles up wind and let nature do the trick. |
#27
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So lets say you roll up with your crew and plan on pillaging and stealing everything in the house that the house you are attacking have. The owner of the place opens the door and tells you pound sand. Gunfire erupts and people are shot, someone opens the door to curse at you and let fly with your Molotov cocktail. It hits the house and burns the place to the ground. You have gained nothing, you just burned it to the ground. Start a forest fire and you burn everything and yourself. |
#28
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Just my 2 cents.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#29
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Just get yourself a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook , Poormans James Bond , and a few military how to books . You would be surprised at the effectiveness of home made weapons ( look at how many people built AR 15s ) Another subject your not to familiar with , but you are allowed your opinion .
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Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" " Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded. Librarian " Calguns is not a 'general discussion board". Last edited by Capt.Dunsel; 01-31-2019 at 12:42 PM.. |
#30
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most home built ARs were made at a build party paying a machinist to run their receiver in his CNC. Even those who actually machined out their own fire control pocket are a long way from having a "home made weapon". On the other hand, those shotguns made from black iron pipe are homemade weapons but not nearly as effective as commercially produced versions. |
#31
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Please post up your 100 yard Molotov Cocktail tosser so we all can see it. I have seen the Grenade launcher that fits on a M1. Our local veterans museum has one one display with a dummy grenade. How you fire one of those and not break the bottle is a marvel to me. Like I said earlier, wear a fire suit. |
#32
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Well, that deteriorated into the personal rather quickly.
Some posts deleted.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#33
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#34
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Funny play on words . I never said toss , I said LAUNCH.
google " Converting a shot gun to a grenade launcher " In the cookbook it also mentions your weapon , the cocktail as a secondary weapon . And Dear Librarian , This is the second time he did this , give him the info the he calls in help. Nothing against you but I DO NOT LIKE BEING CALLED A LIAR , when I have been giving the proof and they just don't read . I refuse to post up all the particulars , from a book in print . You should understand the laws of copy right infringement And why I won't .
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Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" " Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded. Librarian " Calguns is not a 'general discussion board". |
#36
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I quite understand. Hash it out in PM, not in an open thread.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#37
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Man...this thread smells a lot like OT.
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"I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace." Thomas Paine |
#38
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Yeah. Who knew that molotovs were so controversial?
The real danger in rural areas, post TEOTWAWKI, will be small groups of marauders with deer rifles. At least until the ammo run out. 10-20 years? -- Michael |
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