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Old 05-24-2020, 1:41 PM
Dave Hoback Dave Hoback is offline
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Default The Non-Believer’s stand by.

How many of us as Believers have been rebuked by a non-Believer with the words, “And you call yourself a Christian!” , or “Real good for someone claiming to be a Christian!”?

I’ve run into this countless times....and then left to explain that I am not a Believer because I am GOOD.. I am a Believer because I KNOW how much of a sinner I am! And but for the Grace of God, I would stray so far into the evil of man. I wonder though, where did this notion of “being a Christian makes a person better” come from? Kind of a rhetorical question, I know. I’m simply trying to stir up a conversation, as I am often perplexed & fascinated by non-Believers lack of understanding about these things. Of course I know we again understanding ONLY through God revealing Himself to us & being filled with The Spirit. And that is where the fascination plays a role.
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Old 05-24-2020, 1:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback View Post
How many of us as Believers have been rebuked by a non-Believer with the words, “And you call yourself a Christian!” , or “Real good for someone claiming to be a Christian!”?

I’ve run into this countless times....and then left to explain that I am not a Believer because I am GOOD.. I am a Believer because I KNOW how much of a sinner I am! And but for the Grace of God, I would stray so far into the evil of man. I wonder though, where did this notion of “being a Christian makes a person better” come from? Kind of a rhetorical question, I know. I’m simply trying to stir up a conversation, as I am often perplexed & fascinated by non-Believers lack of understanding about these things. Of course I know we again understanding ONLY through God revealing Himself to us & being filled with The Spirit. And that is where the fascination plays a role.
Dave, Hang in there. Your reward has a guarantee.
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Old 05-24-2020, 2:00 PM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
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Bro Dave, surely you have heard the reference to the verse where St Paul says that the preaching of the cross IS FOOLISHNESS to them that perish, yes ? No ? That being the case, who is anyone, a non believer anyone, to question you and your faith ? When they do, remember where they are coming from, and answer them accordingly or just move on. It matters not at all if I get that kind of issue from non believers, or from hypocritical wannabe pseudo believers. They are NOT your eternal judge or jury. Sometimes its best to just say, if that is your view, so be it, I walk with the Lord and ONLY answer to HIM.

Psalm 1

Last edited by Garand Hunter; 05-24-2020 at 2:01 PM.. Reason: sentence structure
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Old 05-24-2020, 2:14 PM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback View Post
How many of us as Believers have been rebuked by a non-Believer with the words, “And you call yourself a Christian!” , or “Real good for someone claiming to be a Christian!”?

I’ve run into this countless times....and then left to explain that I am not a Believer because I am GOOD.. I am a Believer because I KNOW how much of a sinner I am! And but for the Grace of God, I would stray so far into the evil of man. I wonder though, where did this notion of “being a Christian makes a person better” come from? Kind of a rhetorical question, I know. I’m simply trying to stir up a conversation, as I am often perplexed & fascinated by non-Believers lack of understanding about these things. Of course I know we again understanding ONLY through God revealing Himself to us & being filled with The Spirit. And that is where the fascination plays a role.

Dave, please feel free to PM me. Brothers need to stay close to each other.
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Old 05-24-2020, 3:35 PM
Dave Hoback Dave Hoback is offline
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I agree with you both. But perhaps my post sounded like I’m looking for an answer? I’m not. Of course there is no answer apart from The Word. And I am certainly not concerned with anyone’s criticism. Only my Father’s! I am criticized quite OFTEN here! (The firearms forums sections). But I’ve also met several brothers in Christ as well.(two more!) Of course I don’t always reply with love. Very seldom in-fact. And this is precisely my point in my post initially. I am a sinner regardless. While being Saved certainly can end certain sinful practices...The grace of God can end many sinful deeds in a persons life, sure. But I was born into sin and I will sin until The Lord calls me home. It is true that as we grow in Christ, we sin with less frequency. But sin will be a part of us until He brings us to be with Him for eternity.

Just a conversation piece.
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:32 PM
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I always just say,"yeah I know. I'm not as good as you. I'm a sinner".
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:36 PM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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We all struggle against the flesh. It is in us and He is the only one who can save us from it. To His name be all glory. He is the Lord.
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Old 05-25-2020, 1:31 PM
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the World will always attack us. They want to get underneath your skin, and have you respond in a defensive manner. They don't understand, which is the reason they make those comments. I have also experienced, Christians act as if they are special and that they are Christians because of reasons other than what the Bible states makes us Christians, and I doubt that they are really Christians. Our saving grace was extended to us, not because we were good or entitled.
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Old 05-25-2020, 1:35 PM
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Glad Dave is back.
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Old 05-25-2020, 7:39 PM
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It's just an excuse for them not to submit to God. Basically, they're trolling.
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Old 05-25-2020, 8:51 PM
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they (world) expect perfection. one (tiny) mistake and suddenly you are branded "hypocrite." they watch and wait for you to make mistake and they immediately pounce on that opportunity to announce the world that christian are fraud.
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Old 05-25-2020, 9:16 PM
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It's sort of the other side of the "holier than thou" coin that no doubt most "unbelievers" and ALL Christians have faced at one time or another...

A vital part of "believing" acknowledges that we are in a state of sin in a sinful world, with other sinful people. While we hopefully struggle every day to choke our "old man", we fail too often, and our hope is in undeserved grace. We must show that grace to others in hopes they will eventually see the light.

The ones who cry "hypocrite" are expressing "judgement", just as those who believe they are "holier than thou". There is a greater Judge and judgement to come.
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Old 06-03-2020, 8:45 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
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I can't speak for others. I don't even remember a time I told somebody "And you call yourself a Christian!" Christians are people. But too many people have used their faith as a means to gain unwarranted trust or an air of piety/righteousness. Humanity is knowing you're flawed & doing your best. Hypocrisy is thinking you're fixed or, at the least, giving others the impression that you're fixed.

How many pastors have used their position as a spiritual leader to do harmful things to other people? How many Christians have used their faith to shield them from blame? How many Christians criticize others for doing things that they do all the time (but deny). How many Christians find comfort in their spiritual life but haven't taken a single day in the last year to do anything to feed the hungry? How many Christians think they have the one and only path to meaningful self-improvement and fail to be any better than the average human? I don't think it's the failure to achieve an unreachable goal that people are criticizing. I think it's the cognitive dissonance that allows people to think that their religion makes them better, more trustworthy, more worthy of God's love, etc.

The proof is in the pudding. If somebody comes to my door and shows me a mutual fund that they claim has better management, a better philosophy and a superior track record but fails to provide meaningfully better returns over an index fund over the long term, I'm going to show them the door. So, personally, I'll excuse the non-Christians' indignant attitude as just plain common sense toward those who might be as self-righteous as a Pharisee. Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, his seminal philosophy, is a deep calling to cut the BS, help others & show them love -- especially those who society rejects. LGBTQ..., drug addicts, the unemployed, the homeless, HIV/AIDS victims, single parents, orphans, the mentally ill, Millennials, Democrats (well a lot of Christians reject those last two), etc. And Jesus is ruthless toward the rich, the powerful, the politicians, etc.

As a non-Christian, if I hear that so and so volunteers at a homeless shelter but occasionally cheats on his wife, my reaction is to think, "Well, he's only human." But if I hear that somebody occasionally cheats on his wife but doesn't volunteer in his community, I think, "He's not really a Christian."

Bear in mind, I'm not criticizing anybody in this forum. I don't know any of you personally. But these are just my thoughts on the OP, from my outsider perspective.

Last edited by CVShooter; 06-03-2020 at 8:48 AM..
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:05 AM
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^^^ that's the reason why you don't put people on the pedestal. people will disappoint you christian or not. as the Bible says, "you will know them by their fruits."

all these pastors i watch on tv are not superstars to me the way others see them as pastors-celebrities.

what is important to me is the message. if it doesn't agree with the Word of God, then i change the channel. little disagreement is fine but not with foundation/doctrine.
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